OK to Hang Palin, Not Obama

[Willam]

I thought this was pretty interesting. Granted, one is a part of a halloween display and the other was by itself, but I still believe this is a double standard.

Obama effigy found on University of Kentucky campus; school aplogizes

LEXINGTON, Ky. - Authorities at the University of Kentucky are trying to find out who hung an effigy of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on campus.

College spokesman Carl Nathe said it was found hanging from a tree Wednesday morning. Police immediately took it down.

School president Lee Todd says that he plans to personally apologize to the Obama family on behalf of the university and that he is "personally offended and deeply embarrassed by this disgusting episode."

It's the second time an effigy has been found on a college campus recently.

Earlier this week, George Fox University in Oregon said it was punishing four students who confessed to hanging a likeness of Obama from a tree.


Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081029/world/obama_effigy_4



Effigy of Palin Hanging by Noose Is Distasteful, but Not a Hate Crime, Feds Say

Despite cries from some community residents for a hate-crime probe, the FBI and local police say they will not investigate an effigy of Sarah Palin hanging from a noose in West Hollywood, Calif., because it's part of a Halloween display.
"It's clearly distasteful, but it doesn't appear to be a violation of federal civil rights statutes," Laura Eimiller, a spokeswoman with the FBI in Los Angeles, told FOXNews.com in an e-mail. "Currently, we do not have an investigation open."
Los Angeles sheriffs said they are not treating the exhibit as an act of discrimination.
"I'm not defending this; I'm not criticizing it. It doesn't rise to the level of hate crime," Los Angeles County Sheriff's spokesman Steve Whitmore told The Los Angeles Times. "Now, if there was a crime against bad taste ..."
The U.S. Secret Service wouldn't comment on whether it was looking into this matter specifically, but it suggested it investigates all such incidents as potential threats.
"An exhibited or stated unusual direction of interest in a protectee could be indicative of threatening behavior," spokesman Ed Donovan told FOXNews.com. "We take threats against protectees very seriously."
Donovan said the Secret Service tries to determine the motive behind displays like the one in California.
"These effigies or other similar visual presentations could ... be an intent to intimidate people," he said. "Through interviews or further investigation, when they're brought to our attention, we're proactive in addressing these matters."
Whitmore said he visited the house where the effigy is displayed on Tuesday morning to get a look at it -- a mannequin wearing "Palin-style" glasses, a brown beehive wig and a red coat, dangling by a thick white rope coiled around its neck.
Sheriffs have gotten between five and 10 angry phone calls from residents who say they're offended by the Halloween lawn exhibit, Sgt. Kristin Aloma of the L.A. Sheriff's Department's West Hollywood unit told the Times.
Authorities are keeping an eye on the neighborhood and the house, she added.
The mayor of West Hollywood, meanwhile, wants the mannequin taken down.
"While these residents have the legal right to display Sen. John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin in effigy, I strongly oppose political speech that references violence -- real or perceived," Mayor Jeffrey Prang said in a prepared statement.
"I urge these residents to take down their display and find more constructive ways to express their opinion."
In addition to including more typical Halloween paraphernalia like skeletons and spider webs, the display also has a John McCain figure in a chimney with fake flames around him, according to the Times.
Chad Michael Morrisette, who lives in the house, said the exhibit has become something of a tourist attraction, with visitors stopping frequently to take photos.
Morrisette acknowledged that if the display were of Barack Obama, instead of Palin, there might have been more of an uproar.
"The image of a hanged black man is a lot more intense than the image of a hanged white woman, for our country and the history of our country," Morrisette told KCBS-TV.


Link: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/29/sarah-palin-effigy-hanging-noose-hate-crime/

That last line gets me, too. So would it be ok to show Obama being raped, because the image of a white woman being raped is alot more intense?

[Mustard]

It isn't ok to hang anybody or even an effigy of somebody, pretty much ever.

Unless its a child rapist. Thats ok with me.

[ADD]

We're hanging Sarah Palin? Sign me up!

[BIG PIZZLE]

A noose has powerful connotations for some nigas. It would be like calling Obama a cunt vs.calling Palin a cunt. Bitches dont like to get a random c-banger dropped on their ass.

[HAWK]

So true....

[smahoo]

neither is OK, under any circumstance

[ADD]

I disagree. If someone's being a cunt, they're going to hear about it.

[Limp]

Shut up cunt.

[}{arlequin]

how is palin being a cunt? other than her having one?

[smahoo]

hanging an effigy is what i was specifically referring to....

[smahoo]

^^ by lying about her ethics violations to name one

[The Batman]

^^ by lying about her ethics violations to name one

Or by going to rally's and critizing Obama and his associates because of their history and then having a husband believes Alaska shouldn't be part of the United States anymore.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/29/campaign.wrap/index.html

[The Batman]

But really, isn't this common sense? I mean if you call a white person a n*gger its a totally different thing to call a black person one. A noose is a lot more relevant to a black person than it is a white person, based solely on history. But, both are wrong. One is just worse than the other.

[ADD]

how is palin being a cunt? other than her having one?

Have you heard her speak or seen her actions and acquisations? Her inability to answer a simple question, etc? She is the queen cunt.

[}{arlequin]

^^ by lying about her ethics violations to name one
tubby wasn't labeled a cunt for lying ab lewinsky... if we're gonna blame politicians for doing what politicians normally do, then i guess we should just grab the broadest brush and call every one of them a cunt.

sheesh, the bitch is trying to get herself elected, of course she will do it by any means she can. can you blame her? can you blame either of the candidates really?

newsflash: it's what they do

[The Batman]

tubby wasn't labeled a cunt for lying ab lewinsky... if we're gonna blame politicians for doing what politicians normally do, then i guess we should just grab the broadest brush and call every one of them a cunt.

sheesh, the bitch is trying to get herself elected, of course she will do it by any means she can. can you blame her? can you blame either of the candidates really?

newsflash: it's what they do

you can't call a dude a cunt. you can call him a dick. or a cock. so tubby was a dick. not a cunt.

[}{arlequin]

Have you heard her speak or seen her actions and acquisations? Her inability to answer a simple question, etc? She is the queen cunt.
she might be dumb, or incompetent, or just plain silly, but cuntiness has to be reached by doing something really extraordinary. completely beyond what is comprehensible... otherwise it's just politics as usual as far as i'm concerned

[}{arlequin]

you can't call a dude a cunt.
of course you can. have you seen a british flick lately?

[ADD]

you can't call a dude a cunt. you can call him a dick. or a cock. so tubby was a dick. not a cunt.

Fail

I call my brother and his friends cunts all the time

[Genius]

You call a bitch a cunt when she is being overtly annoying and doesn't realize it. I'd say that Sarah Palin fits this exactly.

[Gary_Busey]

she might be dumb, or incompetent, or just plain silly, but cuntiness has to be reached by doing something really extraordinary. completely beyond what is comprehensible... otherwise it's just politics as usual as far as i'm concerned
How about billing rape victims for rape kits?

[UNC]

How many years before Palin is on Surreal Life?

[ADD]

How many months before Alaska puts her, Todd and their kids on an iceberg and float it out to seas?

[The Batman]

of course you can. have you seen a british flick lately?

Good point. but usually aren't they a daft cunt? (am i spelling that right?)

[Justabot]

Or a dozy cunt. Whatever that means.

[vasili denisov]

I thought this was pretty interesting. Granted, one is a part of a halloween display and the other was by itself, but I still believe this is a double standard.
How is it a double standard? In the case of the university, they have to respond strongly to such an effigy in order to establish that they have a welcome, open-minded attitude toward students; they'd have the same reaction about a woman hanging from a noose.

It's in their self-interest to take such an action and it's not in response to any issue of hate speech; if it were the case of say, a diorama featuring Obama being hanged, which the university tried to get rid of, they'd lose their case since they're a public university and have to allow for the freedom of such speech. George Fox university (the other place with an Obama effigy) is a private university which does not need to provide such guarantees.

In the case of the person's home, there's actually an attempt to use hate crime legislation to block such an effigy; the homeowner, unlike the university, has nothing like the interest a university has about such complaints. I also doubt it could ever be prosecuted as a hate crime; it's part of a halloween display, which suggests that its primary purpose is not to incite hatred toward the victim based on gender. That the display also includes a caricature of John McCain (burning in a furnace) indicates that the depiction of Palin is not due to gender but her as a public figure and her political ideas. It seems fairly clear that's well within protected speech.

[}{arlequin]

How many months before Alaska puts her, Todd and their kids on an iceberg and float it out to seas?
if they lose, and she positions herself in washington, you might see her become stronger, and a de-facto leader of her party going right up against hilary whenever she has a chance.

[Alcestis]

Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081029/world/obama_effigy_4

Link: http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/29/sarah-palin-effigy-hanging-noose-hate-crime/

That last line gets me, too. So would it be ok to show Obama being raped, because the image of a white woman being raped is alot more intense?

This is coming from two gay artists, from West Hollywood. WOW, shocking. [/sarcasm]

This doesn't surprise many out here. Is this stunt for attention pathetic? YES. But not at all surprising. Local news stations were bored after the second day.

[gwreckk]

palin just needs a dick in her butt

[ADD]

if they lose, and she positions herself in washington, you might see her become stronger, and a de-facto leader of her party going right up against hilary whenever she has a chance.

I doubt it, she's not bright or strong. Hilary would eat her for breakfast and see right through her bullshit posturing. Palin's 15 minutes are about to end. Even the Ankorage paper backed her opponent. Apparently, also most people in Alaska aren't her biggest fan if you listen to radio, etc. (and I mean normal radio, not right wing or left win formatted stations).

[Soup Nazi]

The first second Palin begins to act as a leader in the party, and frontrunner for 2012 (assuming Obama wins), Romney can and will bitchslap her back to reality. Shit, I can't even imagine what a Romney-Palin debate would look like, they may have to stop it mid-way through and press rape charges against Mitt.

[riseabove!]

The school was forced to make an apology, simple as that.

[taters]

Um, maybe its not ok to do a hanging effigy to anyone.

[willydong]

"Despite cries from some community residents for a hate-crime probe,..."

now that sounds sexy

[nuclearjew]

you can't call a dude a cunt. you can call him a dick. or a cock. so tubby was a dick. not a cunt.
WRONG

4E_7q4hzWFc

[taters]

Obviously, people have no fucking idea of what hate crimes are or what is the concept behind them. When a burning palin effigy is seen as a hate crime and two white redneck members of the aryan nation lynch a black guy and drag him across the counry is not. Incredible.

If it targeted Palin because she was a woman, it would be a hate crime. Otherwise, its just a crime.

[willydong]

Obviously, people have no fucking idea of what hate crimes are or what is the concept behind them. When a burning palin effigy is seen as a hate crime and two white redneck members of the aryan nation lynch a black guy and drag him across the counry is not. Incredible.

If it targeted Palin because she was a woman, it would be a hate crime. Otherwise, its just a crime.


the fact that hate crime is worse than crime is abso-fucking-lutely absurd.

[taters]

the fact that hate crime is worse than crime is abso-fucking-lutely absurd.


No, the fact that we need hate crimes because judges, police and juries in some areas of the nation will not advance justice in the event of crimes against (women, racial and religious minorities, homosexuals) for no other reasons than that they are different.

No one cries concerning 'add-on' penalties for things like drug crimes, drinking crimes, organized crime, gang crime, drug crimes, felonies etc, odd that (white conservative) people pick out the one add-on's that adds penalties for crimes committed almost entirely by their group. Odd, or obvious.

[willydong]

[quote=taters;202881]No one cries concerning 'add-on' penalties for things... quote]*

be patient, the latest addition to "name that hate crime" is on it's way

*(quote edited to suit my propaganda)

[taters]

[quote=taters;202881]No one cries concerning 'add-on' penalties for things... quote]*

be patient, the latest addition to "name that hate crime" is on it's way

*(quote edited to suit my propaganda)

I dont know if its a quote error, but I dont understand what your saying.

[willydong]

[quote=willydong;202888]

I dont know if its a quote error, but I dont understand what your saying.

you're right. poorly posted.

my point is: chaining a person to the back of your truck and dragging them down the street until they are dead is a crime REGARDLESS of your reason: by tagging it a hate crime because of racial hatred diminishes the same crime commited for any other ridiculous reason, hence, justice is perverted and this reasoning creates a slippery slope, i posit...

[taters]

[quote=taters;202911]

you're right. poorly posted.

my point is: chaining a person to the back of your truck and dragging them down the street until they are dead is a crime REGARDLESS of your reason: by tagging it a hate crime because of racial hatred diminishes the same crime commited for any other ridiculous reason, hence, justice is perverted and this reasoning creates a slippery slope, i posit...

Yes, but

1- The additional penalty serves as (if you believe in it for anything else) deterrence

2- There are places and districts were the locals or judge or police or DA would not make the appropriate charge for such a crime, usually because they have similar views of the accused.

Hate crimes are a mechanism to-

1- Raise cases to the federal level (something that was needed back during the civil rights church bombing/lynching days)

2- Ensure adequate or near adequate sentencing for individuals in places where the 'system' would not otherwise charge, try, or sentence them in such cases.

But as I said-


No one cries concerning 'add-on' penalties for things like drug crimes, drinking crimes, organized crime, gang crime, drug crimes, felonies etc, odd that (white conservative) people pick out the one add-on's that adds penalties for crimes committed almost entirely by their group. Odd, or obvious

[kareyn01]

I really don't consider it much of a double standard when even Keith Olbermann listed the guy with the Palin-effigy as one of his "worst persons in the world" earlier this week.

[ADD]

Joe the Plumber?

[Debo]

He threw in the towel.
http://cbs2.com/local/Sarah.Palin.Effigy.2.852046.html

[Willam]

[quote=willydong;202924]

Yes, but

1- The additional penalty serves as (if you believe in it for anything else) deterrence

2- There are places and districts were the locals or judge or police or DA would not make the appropriate charge for such a crime, usually because they have similar views of the accused.

Hate crimes are a mechanism to-

1- Raise cases to the federal level (something that was needed back during the civil rights church bombing/lynching days)

2- Ensure adequate or near adequate sentencing for individuals in places where the 'system' would not otherwise charge, try, or sentence them in such cases.

But as I said-


I've personally always had a problem with "hate crimes" in that they are punishing someone for their thoughts. To me, that alone is unconstitutional. I understand the need for severe punishments, I just don't see the need to seperate crimes. If you chain a person to your car and drag them down the street, I don't care if you did it because they were black or you did it because they owed you money, slept with your wife, or whatever. Both actions should be punished equally and severely.

[Alcestis]

He threw in the towel.
http://cbs2.com/local/Sarah.Palin.Effigy.2.852046.html

The homeowner began to realize what they had done caused a little more of a reaction than they had hoped for," Whitmore said.

Just earlier Wednesday, the homeowners still maintained it was a harmless Halloween work of art....

Here in California, we will be voting on Proposition 8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)). As far as I'm concerned, it was this residents way of public viewing his outrage at Republicans and he used the "Halloween work of art" as a simple excuse to make a stupid political statement.