PDA

View Full Version : President Barack Obama is a Muslim apostate, discuss.


Rover
10-31-2008, 02:17 AM
First, I was just going to throw this in the 2008 election thread, but it would just get lost in there amongst the "Joe the Plumber is the antichrist" posts. And I think it has the potential to be interesting.

I was reminded of Obama's past when I saw this poll:
A University of Texas poll to be released today shows Republican presidential candidate John McCain and GOP Sen. John Cornyn leading by comfortable margins in Texas, as expected. But the statewide survey of 550 registered voters has one very surprising finding: 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6084678.html)

Nevermind that it's been 2 years and Obama still has trouble convincing people he isn't a son of Ishmael.

Technically, those 23% are correct. And it's one of the more fascinating aspects of a potential Obama foreign policy. How does Obama interact with the Muslim community as a Muslim apostate? Under Sharia, he'd be executed. And usually high profile apostates are given death warrants, ie Salman Rushdie and Magdi Allam. I can understand why Obama wouldn't want to give interviews about this during the campaign, but I wonder what his foreign policy position will be on how to interact with Muslim countries.

I see it as a potentially huge stumbling block in Middle East peace progress.

Here's a CSM article discussing how apostates are viewed in Islam (http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0519/p09s02-coop.html?page=1), and how Obama's faith could be exploited by terrorists. The biggest thing that struck me in the article is that the Global War on Terror would be seen a war on Muslims by a Muslim apostate. And people used to think that George W. Bush was a great recruitment tool for al-Qaeda.


Osama bin Laden must be chuckling in his safe house. After all, the 2008 campaign could very well give Al Qaeda the ultimate propaganda tool: President Barack Hussein Obama, Muslim apostate.

The fact that Senator Obama – the son of a Muslim father – insists he was never a Muslim before becoming Christian is irrelevant to bin Laden. In bin Laden's eyes, Obama is a murtad fitri, the worst type of apostate, because he was blessed by Allah to be born into the true faith of Islam.

There are two types of apostates according to sharia (Islamic law) and the Hadith (sayings of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him).
The first type is murtad milli, one who converted to Islam and later renounced the faith. The second, and most egregious, type is murtad fitri. It refers to a person born of a Muslim father who renounces his birthright. Two recent examples of the latter are Magdi Allam (a male Egyptian who converted to Catholicism in Italy) and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (Somali-born woman who's now an atheist). Both now face death threats.
According to Islamic jurisprudence, children of a Muslim father – even an apparently nonpracticing one, such as Obama's father, and irrespective of the mother's faith – are automatically Muslims. Most Muslims around the world agree: A child of a Muslim father is a Muslim. Period.

Should Obama become US commander in chief, there is a strong likelihood that Al Qaeda's media arm, As-Sahab, will exploit his background to argue that an apostate is leading the global war on terror (read: attacks against fellow Muslims). This perception would be leveraged to galvanize sympathizers into action.

Anybody have any thoughts on what happens to US foreign policy, specifically as it relates to the Muslim world, if Obama gets elected, which isn't going to happen, but, you know, just in case. I guess this should be discussed now, before Tuesday when no one will care what effect an Illinois senator will have on foreign policy.

Stax
10-31-2008, 02:19 AM
Technically, those 23% are correct.

No they aren't.


The fact that Senator Obama – the son of a Muslim father – insists he was never a Muslim before becoming Christian is irrelevant to bin Laden. In bin Laden's eyes, Obama is a murtad fitri, the worst type of apostate, because he was blessed by Allah to be born into the true faith of Islam.

So you're saying Bin Laden gets to dictate who should be president of the US? That seems odd.

Anybody have any thoughts on what happens to US foreign policy, specifically as it relates to the Muslim world, if Obama gets elected, which isn't going to happen, but, you know, just in case. I guess this should be discussed now, before Tuesday when no one will care what effect an Illinois senator will have on foreign policy.

Really?

And I'm done.

Rover
10-31-2008, 02:24 AM
No they aren't.Congratulations, you've failed reading.

I don't think he's a Muslim. He doesn't think he's a Muslim, but there are about a billion people that think he is.

This isn't a critique of Obama. I was just wondering what people think will happen in the Middle East. I guess you don't have an opinion.

Stax
10-31-2008, 02:30 AM
Congratulations, you've failed reading.

I don't think he's a Muslim. He doesn't think he's a Muslim, but there are about a billion people that think he is.

This isn't a critique of Obama. I was just wondering what people think will happen in the Middle East. I guess you don't have an opinion.

I read. You said those 23% are technically correct. They are not. Period. Saying they are is a lie, making you a liar.

I don't give a shit what Osama Bin Laden thinks about this election because no matter who is elected he will spin it in such a way that makes things look good for him. That's like 90% of the job description for a crazy fucking religious terrorist leader, convincing people you're right.

Rover
10-31-2008, 02:34 AM
You don't get to make the rules for the religion of Islam. According to their rules, Obama is a Muslim. So, on a technicality, the rednecks from Texas are correct. They don't understand why they're right, but they are.

Stax
10-31-2008, 02:38 AM
You don't get to make the rules for the religion of Islam. According to their rules, Obama is a Muslim. So, on a technicality, the rednecks from Texas are correct. They don't understand why they're right, but they are.

No, I don't get to make up those rules. But I'm pretty sure personal views matter more for faith, especially in the US, than institutional law. And personally Obama is clearly not a Muslim. Hell, he's so not Muslim that he has a crazy Christian preacher.

If McCain somehow pulls this thing out it will just be spun as 4 more years of Bush and another aggressive leader trained in the US Military Industrial Complex to hate Muslims. Either way it will be spun by extremists in the region in a way friendly to themselves, that's what spin is.

machwa
10-31-2008, 02:41 AM
I think he'll be received much more positively than any conservative christian by Muslims. Here is a guy who is Christian but has a Muslim background on his father's side. Israel can be content that he's the US president, christian, and an ally. The rest of the Muslim world might think he's more likely to be tolerant/understanding/etc of their point of view. I don't care how dumb or insignificant it is but if others can find commonality with Obama that could lesson their hostility...I'm all for it.

vasili denisov
10-31-2008, 03:18 AM
Technically, those 23% are correct.
No, they aren't. First, there's no central Islamic court, the way you can speak of the Vatican's strictures on Catholic behaviour. What's referred to in the Christian Science Monitor as "islamic jurisprudence" is the most strict interpretation of islamic law, namely, sharia, under which we are all born muslim, and some of us "convert" to non-muslim faiths. Employing such a principle, 23% of Texans would be correct if they said George W. Bush was a muslim.

The article drops this focus, and instead places it on Al-Qaeda: how would they react to such an individual in the White House? It's a strange point; how will an action involving an idea central to the american republic (that a man's faith is of no consequence in elected office) play out with a group because of their interpretation of the islamic faith, an interpretation which allows them to kill women and children with no compunction. Suddenly, the US must consider what actions might "provoke" Al-Qaeda, though such actions (the election of a man regardless of his religion) a great deal of american blood and treasure was spent, so they might be pursued in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A final point: the Monitor article, which rests on this dubious point being relevant (I think it's obvious why it isn't), tries to give further basis for it through the unfounded allegation that "it's not hard to imagine bin Laden praying that Obama wins this November"; well, this article was written in May, and we now know who Al-Qaeda endorsed in October (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/newsdesk,1537,al-qaeda-site-backs-mccain,51083).

kid_vidrio
10-31-2008, 06:43 AM
I saw this thread, read the first post and scrolled down eagerly to respond to such a ridiculous premise but it's already caught a pretty big case of VD.
Unless you have an antidote, this thread is lock-worthy.

Mustard
10-31-2008, 07:16 AM
Rover is a retard, discuss.

Yelram
10-31-2008, 07:55 AM
I saw this thread, read the first post and scrolled down eagerly to respond to such a ridiculous premise but it's already caught a pretty big case of VD.
Unless you have an antidote, this thread is lock-worthy.

Yes lock it, so that people cant talk about this. This is a hate thread, full of vitriol and untruths, that people shouldnt see, DANGEROUS information here folks, move along.(/sarcasm)

Desperado
10-31-2008, 08:54 AM
I saw this thread, read the first post and scrolled down eagerly to respond to such a ridiculous premise but it's already caught a pretty big case of VD.
Unless you have an antidote, this thread is lock-worthy.

kid_vidrio
10-31-2008, 08:56 AM
Yes lock it, so that people cant talk about this. This is a hate thread, full of vitriol and untruths, that people shouldnt see, DANGEROUS information here folks, move along.(/sarcasm)
No, you fucking dingleberry, it's a bullshit thread that doesn't have teh legs to stand on its own. We have a 'Barack from outer space' thread for this kind of crap.