The "Wussification" of America

[redsox39]

Is America raising a Nation of Pussies? Is PC going way too far? Or are we building stronger kids?

[Limp]

PUSSIES.

[chipsahoy]

Here is evidence that "wussification" of America is just False Propaganda you are spreading to control the masses. Because there is absolutely nothing wussified about the below posts.

I cried when I heard the news. What a bittersweet time for Obama if he wins. you could see the pure sadness in his eyes in his speeches last night. Obama was spectacular when I met him at St. Paul, MN on June 3, such a decent person.

Freepers said "cyanide", "he went there to get his BC because his grandmother was the last person to know he was born in Kenya"...dumbasses. And didn't the republicans criticize Obama last week for visiting her? They sure got their foot in their mouths.

How could I if I don't know them?? Should I not cry for someone I've known/heard about because other people are dying? People shouldn't cry at family members funerals because others are dying? I don't get what your getting at...I feel bad for his grandmother, so what?

Lots do! Where are all the volleyball fans? For sure i'd think volleyball would be a lot more popular since the US men indoor won gold medal, US women indoor won silver and the US men/women beach won Gold Medals at the Olympics....can't we talk about something other than baseball, football or basketball?

Any vball fans in the house?

[rc113943]

America used to produce leaders and heros, now it just produces worthless fucking morons like VoxAngwhateverthehellyournameis that lives on false sense of security and power that comes from being a forum moderator and using big brother powers to punish those who say things that may insult their fragile pysche or otherwise disagree with their weak and misled values. We've created a society full of basement bloggers that posess no true social skills outside of faceless messaging that leads to an over abundance of masterburation and criticism of people they'd never be able to communicate with in the real world. Thats my opinion of the wussification of America.

[Willam]

Absolutely!! The kids growing up today get awards just for participating in anything they do. "We don't keep score, we just want the kids to play." What kind of crap is that???

Gilbane, a huge contracting firm, reportedly has an awards ceremony EVERY FREAKING DAY, because the younger people working there need constant reassurance.

Hell, just look at kids riding their bikes. Helmets, elbow pads, knee pads, etc. We rode our bikes, scraped our knees, got knocked around some, and learned from it.

We didn't have all this "anti-bacterial" crap. We got dirty, got germs, and built up immunities to it. Now, we wipe out all the germs so the body has to react to something and we have a bunch of kids with food allergies.

Oh yea, we also walked to school barefooted in the snow!!!

[Da Raider]

so Smuckers is a pussy? I get it.

[Smuckers]

I'm mortified :(

[Limp]

More like Fagified.

[rc113943]

and trust me, if Barack Obama wins the election, its going to get worse. He wants to change the education in this country, how do you think that will end up? He believes everyone needs to be the same, whether is spreading the wealth or being successful.

In Obama's world, the nail that stands out gets pounded down by the hammer. The hammer is big government, and anyone who wants to succeed is the nail.

[redsox39]

Poll is up

[Desperado]

In Obama's world, the nail that stands out gets pounded down by the hammer. The hammer is big government, and anyone who wants to succeed is the nail.

Wow... this guy is a fucking idiot.

[rc113943]

Wow... this guy is a fucking idiot.

ah, awesome job. instead of trying to compile a logical argument against the socialist views of your messiah, just insult me instead. touche, well done

[redsox39]

ah, awesome job. instead of trying to compile a logical argument against the socialist views of your messiah, just insult me instead. touche, well done


He does this alot, it is his only defense. He is in that "Remember, America, you have to stop thinking, and start feeling", crowd.

He is the loud mouth version of Smuckers.

[wacker]

You guys do realize that you are basically going to get Clinton again its just that it'll look crazy different because of the last 8 years of retardation right?

[Da Raider]

"play dates"
"gender neutral toys"
"internet bullying laws"

case closed.

[Desperado]

trust me.


Real logical....

[Stax]

He does this alot, it is his only defense. He is in that "Remember, America, you have to stop thinking, and start feeling", crowd.

He is the loud mouth version of Smuckers.

Red Sox, are you really insulting Desperado? Really?

[fuldstændigamok]

Wow... this guy is a fucking idiot.

REALLY, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!



Waitaminut, I thought that you were speaking about redsox.



Waitanotherminut, what's the difference between the 2?

[Desperado]

Red Sox, are you really insulting Desperado? Really?


Hahaha I thought he was talking about rc234234234

[redsox39]

Really. I am pretty sure if I go back, the only thing he ever says to me is "you're an idiot". It is hard to take him very seriously, and I try not to use personal attacks on here in any political forum except for him and taters. They brings nothing to the table except for ignorance. I usually don't agree with you either, but at least you have a point we can read and think about, Stax.

[Stax]

Whatever.

A lot of this PC crap from the left is yes bullshit, but "Family Values" from the right is just as much crap. Family values should be just that, something instititued within families, not by the government.

[redsox39]

REALLY, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!



Waitaminut, I thought that you were speaking about redsox.



Waitanotherminut, what's the difference between the 2?

What's the difference between Fuld and a trolling faggot?





Oh wait, one gets a boner because he is an Admin in a forum full of men...

lol, here comes my ban...or maybe he will Neg me to hell again like a 5 year old going through all my posts. Seriously, how the hell did this guy pull rank?

[dantino]

I blame joe the plumber for the wussification of america.

[fuldstændigamok]

What's the difference between Fuld and a trolling faggot?



lol, here comes my ban...or maybe his will Neg me to hell again like a 5 year old going through all my posts. Seriously, how the hell did this guy pull rank?

Oh wait, one gets a boner because he is an Admin in a forum full of men...
CC, mirt, summer, feith and tim would like to disagree with this comment.

[redsox39]

CC, mirt, summer, feith and tim would like to disagree with this comment.

they aren't in here while you are trolling are they?

[Stax]

I blame joe the plumber for the wussification of america.

I blame Joe for the dumbification more than wussification. It really is amazing that symbol, an example, was so immediately launched into the public eye.

[fuldstændigamok]

they aren't in here while you are trolling are they?

OMG, your witty comeback are killing me, you're so good at it. Almost as great as claydon!

[Desperado]

Really. I am pretty sure if I go back, the only thing he ever says to me is "you're an idiot".


I have alot of lefty "friends" who are so pissed McCain picked someone so "un-qualified" to be his running mate. As I choke back my laughter, they continue with "she is just a gimmick to get the women vote".

I say so what?



You're right... guilty as charged.

[dantino]

I blame Joe for the dumbification more than wussification. It really is amazing that symbol, an example, was so immediately launched into the public eye.

I wonder if we as a society will one day have the hindsight to look back at that and say wtf were we thinking?

[redsox39]

You're right... guilty as charged.

I like how you took that out of context, as the reason for the laughter is that Obama isn't qualified either, so the argument is hilariously hypocritical.

Keep Digging, Des

Here is the ACTUAL quote:

I have alot of lefty "friends" who are so pissed McCain picked someone so "un-qualified" to be his running mate. As I choke back my laughter, they continue with "she is just a gimmick to get the women vote".

I say so what?

Here's the thing. Dumb people vote. Nothing you can do about it, ya know?
For every Woman voting for Palin because she is a woman, there is a black man voting for Obama because he is a black man. Don't pretend that we don’t have stupid people on both sides. You have to get them to the poll. Are you telling me that out of all the democrats, Obama was the most qualified guy to lead the nation in the whole party? A guy with no executive Exp? Come on, everyone plays the game.
Obama doesn't try to play the race card up himself, but he is the face of the most expensive race card ever played.
Same with Palin. She isn't going around saying "vote for me, I gave birth!", but she is the face of the most expensive gender card ever. (Edit**Maybe second most Expensive)
Some people think a person who shares their same ideas on Abortion makes them fit to run a country.
Some people think a person who shares their same ideas on Religion makes them fit to run a country.

[Stax]

I wonder if we as a society will one day have the hindsight to look back at that and say wtf were we thinking?

I imagine he'll be one of those funny stories Poly Sci professors tell to step away from their lecture for a second.

"Haha, oh guys, there was this "Joe the Plumber" who got brought up at the debates. And this Joe would go on to be elected our 48th president."

[Stax]

I like how you took that out of context, as the reason for the laughter is that Obama isn't qualified either, so the argument is hilariously hypocritical.

Keep Digging, Des

No one is qualified to be president running in this election because no one has served in any of the following positions:

-US ambassador
-High level executive general (say 2+ star general)
-Executive secretary
-(Large, multifaceted state's governor) unsure on this one

John McCain is older and spent more years in the Senate but that doesn't mean shit about shit because he will be on the other side of the negotiating table (and does anyone really think McCain's 'connections' will be more valuable to getting things done in the upcoming Congress than Obama's?).

[redsox39]

No one is qualified to be president running in this election because no one has served in any of the following positions:

-US ambassador
-High level executive general (say 2+ star general)
-Executive secretary
-(Large, multifaceted state's governor) unsure on this one

John McCain is older and spent more years in the Senate but that doesn't mean shit about shit because he will be on the other side of the negotiating table (and does anyone really think McCain's 'connections' will be more valuable to getting things done in the upcoming Congress than Obama's?).

Fine. I'll even agree with you here. It still makes the arguments about Palin "exp" retarded. You can bang on her for not being smart, but not for her Exp.

[Stax]

Fine. I'll even agree with you here. It still makes the arguments about Palin "exp" retarded. You can bang on her for not being smart, but not for her Exp.

Incorrect. McCain's argument for 6 months was experience. His change in argument in selecting Palin, someone who does not at all fit his model of experience, is a huge issue. In selecting Palin he was ceding that his campaign for the months prior was absolute bullcrap.

[Desperado]

You can bang on her for not being smart


Agreed!!!!

I add this for the Hilarity...

Palin: 'I pray I wake up as VP-elect' (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/11/04/vo.palin.votes.cnn)

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/11/04/vo.palin.votes.cnn

[mongo]

oh my christ this thread is full of fail.

[redsox39]

Incorrect. McCain's argument for 6 months was experience. His change in argument in selecting Palin, someone who does not at all fit his model of experience, is a huge issue. In selecting Palin he was ceding that his campaign for the months prior was absolute bullcrap.

Because he found out that the "new" voters coming out this year don't give a shit (obviously) about experience. So he had to play a gimmick card too. You can't make any difference til you get elected, so do what you have to do.

[Stax]

Because he found out that the "new" voters coming out this year don't give a shit (obviously) about experience. So he had to play a gimmick card too. You can't make any difference til you get elected, so do what you have to do.

Which was the entire problem many people (myself included) had with McCain in the first place. McCain 2000 was a pretty good candidate, I could've supported him against a mediocre Democrat. However in the intervening 8 years he compromised so much on so many issues just to be 'electable'... Fuck him.

[Tar Heel]

Irony: Mongo acting hard in the Wussification of America thread.

[dantino]

Which was the entire problem many people (myself included) had with McCain in the first place. McCain 2000 was a pretty good candidate, I could've supported him against a mediocre Democrat. However in the intervening 8 years he compromised so much on so many issues just to be 'electable'... Fuck him.

It's called politics and everyone succumbs to it eventually.

[mongo]

Irony: Mongo acting hard in the Wussification of America thread.

i am hard in any thread that you post in.

[redsox39]

I am hard in any thread

because every thread has a 10-1 ratio of men to women...

[dadaelus]

REALLY, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Waitaminut, I thought that you were speaking about redsox.

Waitanotherminut, what's the difference between the 2?

Maybe RedSox created rc113943 as a fall back ID in case he gets another drunken 'I'm out of the closet' moment and posts his dick pics in the wrong thread.

[Stax]

It's called politics and everyone succumbs to it eventually.

When McCain authored the Military Commissions Act of 2006 he pretty much moved into the "You can suck a dick and die in a fire for all I care" category.

Lots of people compromise, but compromising on something as core as "I was a POW who was tortured but I'm going to author and support a bill that legalizes torture and denial of rights to prisoners of war" is offensive.

[The Batman]

and trust me, if Barack Obama wins the election, its going to get worse. He wants to change the education in this country, how do you think that will end up? He believes everyone needs to be the same, whether is spreading the wealth or being successful.

In Obama's world, the nail that stands out gets pounded down by the hammer. The hammer is big government, and anyone who wants to succeed is the nail.

Thats just dumb. He wants more people to be educated by making college affordable. I don't see how that would be bad for this country. You just sound like your on one of those political tirates where if this person wins the election its going to be the end of the world.

[redsox39]

Maybe RedSox created rc113943 as a fall back ID in case he gets another drunken 'I'm out of the closet' moment and posts his dick pics in the wrong thread.

Just for Dadaelus

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/mymonty.jpg

[TheImpossibleMan]

This is not a worthwhile thread. I feel cheapened having voted.

[redsox39]

Yeah, it got off topic...let's talk about kids being pussies now and get off the McCain train and the Obama Express.

Seriously, remember when Men were men?

No?

Then you are under 25.

[dadaelus]

Originally Posted by redsox39
Just for Dadaelus

Lemme guess before opening...It will look like a dick only a LOT smaller. Yours by chance?

[Uknowiphat]

Why oh why did I click that fucking spoiler button?

[dadaelus]

Bwhahahahahah So I was right? Go figure.

[The Batman]

Why oh why did I click that fucking spoiler button?

because you like inflicting pain on yourself.

[The Dude]

PC has ruined communication. Because everyone's pussyfooting around things, they always say what won't offend someone rather than what they really mean so the real message is lost.

[Archangel]

So I can say that hillbillies are the lowest form of life on Earth?

[redsox39]

as long as you really mean it!

[redsox39]

So I can say that hillbillies are the lowest form of life on Earth?

[The Batman]

So I can say that hillbillies are the lowest form of life on Earth?

Of course they are. They vote without their brains, get offended by boobies, and want everything to be their way or the highway.

[Archangel]

And all that despite living in a modern, literate, wealthy country full of sources of information.

Wilful ignorance is the gravest sin of all...

[Candycane]

Well what is wrong with being "PC"? We can't all go around just spitting chewing tobacco and shooting people when they piss us off. We don't need to raise big fat self loathing bullies either. Jesus tits people there is a balance of not having to have your kids run around with a pack of ciggies rolled up in their stained see through white t-shirts that Schneider from One Day at a Time wore and having your boys dress in pink leotards. Fuck. (biggest run on sentence evar)

[Tar Heel]

Motherfucker...

[Claibo]

because you like inflicting pain on yourself.


is that what you call it these days? "Pain"?

[Da Raider]

Of course they are. They vote without their brains, get offended by boobies, and want everything to be their way or the highway.

Come on, Batman. You get just as easily offended when someone espouses conservative beliefsor when people simply question Obama's credentials.

[Claibo]

Of course they are. They vote without their brains, get offended by boobies, and want everything to be their way or the highway.

Are you talking about mayates from the 77085? They are voting Wednesday as directed by random txt messages from the sinster right wing. LOL WUT <<< FU

[The Batman]

Well what is wrong with being "PC"? We can't all go around just spitting chewing tobacco and shooting people when they piss us off. We don't need to raise big fat self loathing bullies either. Jesus tits people there is a balance of not having to have your kids run around with a pack of ciggies rolled up in their stained see through white t-shirts that Schneider from One Day at a Time wore and having your boys dress in pink leotards. Fuck. (biggest run on sentence evar)

The problem with being PC is that when people have conversations about important subjects, the real problems are avoided because they are afraid to offend. Sometimes you have to offend someone for them to get the point. I am not talking about being malicious but just having an honest and open conversation about important things.

[The Batman]

Come on, Batman. You get just as easily offended when someone espouses conservative beliefsor when people simply question Obama's credentials.

I don't call it being offeded. People should question his credentials with reason and not this stupid slant attacks that these kinds of things take. Same for McCain. Questioning people is important, but don't give me that Obama is going to lead to the end of the world shit.

[Pox]

Maybe America produces pussies, or maybe it just produces anti-intellectual cretins who think that reading a book or not wanting to go to war all the time makes you a fag.

I think its more the latter than the former.

[The Batman]

is that what you call it these days? "Pain"?
You don't think looking at someone else's dick is pain? Sure, whatever you think. queer.

[Gary_Busey]

Every generation thinks the next generation is going soft.

[rc113943]

there is zero god damn intelligent conversation in these forums

[Limp]

GTFO then.

[Archangel]

there is zero god damn intelligent conversation in these forums

I'm pretty sure you don't have the first idea about what intelligent conversation actually is.

Also, what Limp said. GTFO.

[rc113943]

GTFO then.

Why even post in a Political forum if you have no real knowledge or interest is having an intelligent conversation about that knowledge? Why even fucking have it as part of GMF? So insecure admins can neg rep people to hell for disagreeing with them?

edit: from the other thread


Doesn't anyone realize what is happening to the Democrats right now? They are blindly voting for a man who wouldn't even have the security clearance to be part of our FBI or CIA, a man who has associated himself with racist Pastors and Terrorists, on our soil and abroad. A man who believes in increasing big government to help beat down the successful and bring up the poor who have no desire to be successful. He wants to give everything to everyone without earning anything; he has already shown signs of censoring free speech by kicking newspaper writers who sponsored McCain off his plane for the final week of campaigns. Barack Obama will destroy this economy by increasing socialism and welfare, and spending 1.3 trillion dollars in new money that will come from the people who worked the hardest to earn it. His healthcare plan will bankrupt its providers so the government will eventually run all of the healthcare system, just as his energy policies will bankrupt coal and other industries that we are dependent on for energy independence. Obama's campaign has already formed a "transitional committee" thats sole purpose is to damper the expectations of voters once he is elected, because they openly admit in internal memos that he has created unrealisitic expectations throughout his campaign. He is a liar, a socialist, and a man unfit to run this country during a time of economic hardship and war. I don't understand how someone can look at Barack Obama and question the intelligence of the Republicans in this country ...

George W Bush.


Nuff said.

No, not at all. The fact that you honestly believe you can respond to that with "George W. Bush" shows you are completely ignorant to the politics of this country. It is unacceptable to accept the end of capitalism just because the former president was so unpopular that any change is viewed as good change. George W Bush has no reason to be mentioned in any discussion regarding the 2008 election, and is certaintly not an acceptable comeback for the argument against Barack Obama. Are you even fucking serious?


I love this forum. Make a good point, and nobody says a fucking word, just continue to neg rep people and call them out on shit that didn't make sense in the first place, or make a stupid joke using internet slang.O RLY? fucking troll noob whatever. Typical fucking liberals bitch about everything and do not know ANYTHING.

[Limp]

Why even post in a Political forum if you have no real knowledge or interest is having an intelligent conversation about that knowledge? Why even fucking have it as part of GMF? So insecure admins can neg rep people to hell for disagreeing with them?
I thought GMF had "zero god damn intelligent conversation"?

And people neg you because your a fucking faggot, not because they disagree.

[Tar Heel]

I thought GMF had "zero god damn intelligent conversation"?

And people neg you because your a fucking faggot, not because they disagree.


Right on broseph.

[rc113943]

I thought GMF had "zero god damn intelligent conversation"?

And people neg you because your a fucking faggot, not because they disagree.

Again, don't argue any of my points, just call me a fucking faggot. You have the debating abilities of a neandrathal

[dadaelus]

Why even post in a Political forum if you have no real knowledge or interest is having an intelligent conversation about that knowledge? Why even fucking have it as part of GMF? So insecure admins can neg rep people to hell for disagreeing with them?

edit: from the other thread

I love this forum. Make a good point, and nobody says a fucking word, just continue to neg rep people and call them out on shit that didn't make sense in the first place, or make a stupid joke using internet slang.O RLY? fucking troll noob whatever. Typical fucking liberals bitch about everything and do not know ANYTHING.

I'm here on the off chance that CandyCane will be here... ahh well.

[dadaelus]

I am more interested if people are trying to be PC or are just scared of getting sued.

[Archangel]

Again, don't argue any of my points, just call me a fucking faggot. You have the debating abilities of a neandrathal

*neanderthal. Near Düsseldorf, Germany. Named after Joachim Neander.

For somebody so desperate for intelligent debate, your literacy leaves quite a bit to be desired.

[rc113943]

yep, i don't spell one word correctly and all of a sudden my literacy leaves quite a bit to be desired ... especially since i'm surrounded by nothing but perfect english speaking intellects

[Archangel]

yep, i don't spell one word correctly and all of a sudden my literacy leaves quite a bit to be desired ... especially since i'm surrounded by nothing but perfect english speaking intellects

Yeah, but the other retards don't run around calling every other post beneath their intelligence.

[Pox]

RC, you sound like a mega wuss right now. Are you from America?

[rc113943]

Yeah, but the other retards don't run around calling every other post beneath their intelligence.

your literacy leaves quite a bit to be deserved ...

[Limp]

your literacy leaves quite a bit to be deserved ...
Deserved?

[Tar Heel]

yep, i don't spell one word correctly and all of a sudden my literacy leaves quite a bit to be desired ... especially since i'm surrounded by nothing but perfect english speaking intellects

No. You just have the tact and persuasive skills of a 5 year old with a brain injury. Then you go on to call everyone here stupid and typical liberals while having contributed nothing on this forum until the day of the election. Seriously, I shouldn't have to explain this to you. Why would anyone give you the time of day with a legit response to your mentally challenged posts?

[Gary_Busey]

Deserved?
Duh, his literacy isn't at a fully deserving level. One could say, it's undeserved. Keep up!

[Pox]

My rep sucks because I'm a republican who won't tolerate ignorance from the liberals of our country any more.

no, your rep sucks because you're a noob who jumped into this conversation on election day to discuss things we've been talking about for months. Even worse, your talking points on these issues are more stale than Madonna's vagina. You seem like you collected your opinions from the comments section of an AOL news article.

[Archangel]

Did the retard just denigrate my literacy?


Haha.

[rc113943]

Deserved?

ty :)

[Archangel]

no, your rep sucks because you're a noob who jumped into this conversation on election day to discuss things we've been talking about for months. Even worse, your opinions are more stale than Madonna's vagina. You seem like you collected your opinions from the comments section of an AOL news article.

Youtube, more like.

[Kilgore]

First off its the Pussification of America not Wussification.

Yes its true.

Example.

My roommate owns a motorcycle. He stopped at my mothers house (where I was) for some reason, but the reason isn't important. He drove into the driveway and my nephew saw him and went running inside. He is seven by the way. I know when I was seven I defently wasn't cared my a motorcycle, in fact I would have jumped on it and most likely ased for a ride. But NO my sister and her ex have turned him into the biggest pussy alive. For Christ sake my sister's ex still calls him pumpkin (red hair is in the fam). A boy. At the age of seven.

Now my sister claims that it because my roommate is a stranger. I'm calling bullshit. This is my nephew, I feel for this kid, I really do. My mom, her husband, they see what a pussy this boy has become. They have to follow my sister's rules. I don't have to, and I don't.

[misterfatt]

you're a real tough guy for not listening to your sister.

[Da Raider]

First off its the Pussification of America not Wussification.

Yes its true.

Example.

My roommate owns a motorcycle. He stopped at my mothers house (where I was) for some reason, but the reason isn't important. He drove into the driveway and my nephew saw him and went running inside. He is seven by the way. I know when I was seven I defently wasn't cared my a motorcycle, in fact I would have jumped on it and most likely ased for a ride. But NO my sister and her ex have turned him into the biggest pussy alive. For Christ sake my sister's ex still calls him pumpkin (red hair is in the fam). A boy. At the age of seven.

Now my sister claims that it because my roommate is a stranger. I'm calling bullshit. This is my nephew, I feel for this kid, I really do. My mom, her husband, they see what a pussy this boy has become. They have to follow my sister's rules. I don't have to, and I don't.

Your nephew is a pussy. HA HA HA HA HA.

I gave my 3 year old nephew a teenage mutant ninja costume including sword and numchucks. He uses them on his family. It's awesome.

[Pox]

How do you know he was running away from the motercycle? Maybe he just doesn't like your roomate.

[Da Raider]

How do you know he was running away from the motercycle? Maybe he just doesn't like your roomate.

Odds are the bike was not made in America. Maybe his nephew believes in protectionism for American auto manufacturers and he was shocked that someone would drive a foriegn made motorcycle. He probably ran into the house crying "raise the tariffs!".

[Pox]

Maybe he just had to poop.

This thread really sucks.

[misterfatt]

I know when I was seven I defently wasn't cared my a motorcycle, in fact I would have jumped on it and most likely ased for a ride.
if you're seven years old and asking strange men for a ride on their motorcycle, you have bigger problems than being a wuss.

[dadaelus]

if you're seven years old and asking strange men for a ride on their motorcycle, you have bigger problems than being a wuss.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ymg0i1.jpg

[VoxAngelikus]

America used to produce leaders and heros, now it just produces worthless fucking morons like VoxAngwhateverthehellyournameis that lives on false sense of security and power that comes from being a forum moderator and using big brother powers to punish those who say things that may insult their fragile pysche or otherwise disagree with their weak and misled values. We've created a society full of basement bloggers that posess no true social skills outside of faceless messaging that leads to an over abundance of masterburation and criticism of people they'd never be able to communicate with in the real world. Thats my opinion of the wussification of America.

Someone upset that I switched his stupid "OMGZ who did the Red Sox vote for!?!?!" link to meatspin.com?

Thanks for thinking of me, fuck face.

[redsox39]

Here's more of what I am talking about.

My Wife is a 7th grade teacher. Here are some of the things that might blow your mind (or not)

* she cannot use a red pen to grade papers (self esteem issues)
* she cannot post test scores on the wall
* she cannot have kids trade papers to grade homework for each other
*she cannot give any scores under 50%- even if the paper wasn't turned in!
* she cannot give awards for good test scores or even put stars or stickers on the papers


All of this because it might make other kids fell bad. This is fucking retarded.

Apparently, rewarding good work, behavior, or ethics is frowned upon. We cannot push the top of the class past the bottom of the class. The best and brightest are suffering for the worst and dimmest...

[The Batman]

Here's more of what I am talking about.

My Wife is a 7th grade teacher. Here are some of the things that might blow your mind (or not)

* she cannot use a red pen to grade papers (self esteem issues)
* she cannot post test scores on the wall
* she cannot have kids trade papers to grade homework for each other
*she cannot give any scores under 50%- even if the paper wasn't turned in!
* she cannot give awards for good test scores or even put stars or stickers on the papers


All of this because it might make other kids fell bad. This is fucking retarded.

Apparently, rewarding good work, behavior, or ethics is frowned upon. We cannot push the top of the class past the bottom of the class. The best and brightest are suffering for the worst and dimmest...

What they should do is actually talk to kids about how they feel about these kinds of things, before assuming that they are going to be detrimentally destroyed because of a lack of a fucking gold star on their paper....
But yeah, this is BS. My mom is a teacher and all the things they do are ridiculous. Whatever happened to competition? How are you supposed to know if you are good at something or better than everyone else if there is no critique, whether or not it is positive?

[Willam]

Here's more of what I am talking about.

My Wife is a 7th grade teacher. Here are some of the things that might blow your mind (or not)

* she cannot use a red pen to grade papers (self esteem issues)
* she cannot post test scores on the wall
* she cannot have kids trade papers to grade homework for each other
*she cannot give any scores under 50%- even if the paper wasn't turned in!
* she cannot give awards for good test scores or even put stars or stickers on the papers


All of this because it might make other kids fell bad. This is fucking retarded.

Apparently, rewarding good work, behavior, or ethics is frowned upon. We cannot push the top of the class past the bottom of the class. The best and brightest are suffering for the worst and dimmest...


I don't know if I should laugh or cry at that. It's just pitiful!

[Morfin]

My Wife is a 7th grade teacher. Here are some of the things that might blow your mind (or not)

My mind is already blown by the fact that you're married.




(Oh, come on. It was a joke.)

[redsox39]

I know...we have to laugh about it at home...I told her to forget public schools and let's get her a job at a private school where wussification has not taken hold yet...

After 6th grade, that's where you'll find my kids. I cannot assume the Government has my kids best interests in public schools.

[hatepoppy]

Apparently, rewarding good work, behavior, or ethics is frowned upon. We cannot push the top of the class past the bottom of the class. The best and brightest are suffering for the worst and dimmest...
the best and the brightest are either in an honors type program, or at a private school. the ones suffering are the just above average types that wouldnt make it in advanced classes, but arent lazy or stupid.

[HAWK]

Here's more of what I am talking about.

My Wife is a 7th grade teacher. Here are some of the things that might blow your mind (or not)

* she cannot use a red pen to grade papers (self esteem issues)
* she cannot post test scores on the wall
* she cannot have kids trade papers to grade homework for each other
*she cannot give any scores under 50%- even if the paper wasn't turned in!
* she cannot give awards for good test scores or even put stars or stickers on the papers


All of this because it might make other kids fell bad. This is fucking retarded.

Apparently, rewarding good work, behavior, or ethics is frowned upon. We cannot push the top of the class past the bottom of the class. The best and brightest are suffering for the worst and dimmest...

My kid's teachers do all these things.

[The Batman]

the best and the brightest are either in an honors type program, or at a private school. the ones suffering are the just above average types that wouldnt make it in advanced classes, but arent lazy or stupid.

I disagree. Sometimes the best and brightest are lost in the shuffle. If they are never given the opportunity to show off, how would we know they have the potential?

[redsox39]

My kid's teachers do all these things.

Then just wait...

If it happened in Nebraska Already, you are REALLY behind...

[hatepoppy]

I disagree. Sometimes the best and brightest are lost in the shuffle. If they are never given the opportunity to show off, how would we know they have the potential?if they were the best and brightest, theyd find a way to show it. initiative is part of it.

[redsox39]

the best and the brightest are either in an honors type program, or at a private school. the ones suffering are the just above average types that wouldnt make it in advanced classes, but arent lazy or stupid.


Not every school, especially at the ages where stickers and stars mean something, have honors programs. And not every parent can afford private school in every state.

There are plenty of brilliant students trapped in educational hell with the kid that smells like pee and eats lead paint.

[redsox39]

if they were the best and brightest, theyd find a way to show it. initiative is part of it.


We are talking about kids under 12 here poppy, not College kids looking to impress.

[hatepoppy]

Not every school, especially at the ages where stickers and stars mean something, have honors programs. And not every parent can afford private school in every state.

There are plenty of brilliant students trapped in educational hell with the kid that smells like pee and eats lead paint.
maybe i just ahve a different perspective. when i was a kid (as in, until 7th grade), i lived in some of the hoodest-ass places you can imagine. i was in these schools youre talking about. if anything, it was easier to stand out, as pretty much everyone else there couldnt read.

my parents ended up moving to a place w an honors program. after a few weeks, the math teacher approached me, and said 'here take this test.' after that, i was in the honors program.

i guess my point is, there is no excuse. take that shit to the bank. noone gives a shit where you came from, we all had a shitty childhood. you have to make things happen for yourself, or they wont. if you cant (or wont) succeed in spite of your surroundings, are you really the best? you might be the best in the room, but what's that mean, really?

[hatepoppy]

We are talking about kids under 12 here poppy, not College kids looking to impress.
if the quality of your performance prior to age 12 didnt matter, why do they go to school at all? and did you know any honors kids in school? the ones i knew were already competitive, college bound kids, yes, looking to impress. you dont join the academic decathalon or science olympiad just for the hell of it.

[The Batman]

if they were the best and brightest, theyd find a way to show it. initiative is part of it.

True, but if there making everyone equal and one of the kids is slightly better than most, how can they distinguish themselves? Or if they are in an environment where their parents don't encourage them?

[Pox]

I went to some of the shittiest public schools and my city and tested out of them by the time I was in 4th grade. If a school district doesn't have a place to put honors students, thats podunk as fuck.

[Archetype]

* she cannot use a red pen to grade papers (self esteem issues)
* she cannot post test scores on the wall
* she cannot have kids trade papers to grade homework for each other
*she cannot give any scores under 50%- even if the paper wasn't turned in!
* she cannot give awards for good test scores or even put stars or stickers on the papers

It's things like this that make me glad I grew up in the boonies.

[hatepoppy]

True, but if there making everyone equal and one of the kids is slightly better than most, how can they distinguish themselves? Or if they are in an environment where their parents don't encourage them?i dont agree w what theyre doing, ill say that.

my point is just that each person, whatever age, is accountable for their own performance. if youre getting an A, what does it matter that the speds around you are getting 50% instead of 14%?

[hatepoppy]

I went to some of the shittiest public schools and my city and tested out of them by the time I was in 4th grade. If a school district doesn't have a place to put honors students, thats podunk as fuck.
or hood as fuck. doesnt have to be country to be backwards.

[redsox39]

if the quality of your performance prior to age 12 didnt matter, why do they go to school at all? and did you know any honors kids in school? the ones i knew were already competitive, college bound kids, yes, looking to impress. you dont join the academic decathalon or science olympiad just for the hell of it.

first off, we aren't talking about "da hood", although I am sure it is the same there. We are talking about pandering to the weakest at the expense of the strongest, and we aren't running a race. I would be all for putting all the smarter kids in one class room, but then the "dumber" kids would feel bad because they were in the dumb class. Even Honors programs are going away in the Jr and Sr highs around here anyways.

[Pox]

Well, luckily my city had public exam schools.

[hatepoppy]

first off, we aren't talking about "da hood", although I am sure it is the same there. We are talking about pandering to the weakest at the expense of the strongest, and we aren't running a race. I would be all for putting all the smarter kids in one class room, but then the "dumber" kids would feel bad because they were in the dumb class. Even Honors programs are going away in the Jr and Sr highs around here anyways.

thats just fucking stupid. wtf benefit is there to eliminating classes like AP calculus and physics in hs (which is what eliminating honors programs would have done, in my hs at least, by taking the honors kids 1yr backwards in match and science).

but as far as pandering to the weakest at the expense of the strongest - it sucks. but to use it as an excuse that you were being held back is a cop-out. in fact, i contend that using this as an excuse for performing below your capacity is part of the pussification we're talking about. just as these lefty teachers and ptas are claiming that treating kids that perform well differently than those that dont diminishes overall success, anyone claiming that this pussification is holding them back needs to look in the mirror.

[hatepoppy]

its ok if yous guys disagree. just so you know tho i probably wont be changing my mind any time soon, so im basically done w this facet of the discussion.

[redsox39]

Because, starting at a young age, you want to reward kids for working hard or at least doing well. I can almost understand not "punishing" kids for sub par performances, but to take away rewards on the other side of the spectrum is just plain sissy bullshit.

If your feelings are truly hurt because the teachers grade your papers in red pen...maybe you should go kill yourself.

[misterfatt]

if your feelings are hurt because you didn't get a sticker, you should probably do the same.

[hatepoppy]

Because, starting at a young age, you want to reward kids for working hard or at least doing well. I can almost understand not "punishing" kids for sub par performances, but to take away rewards on the other side of the spectrum is jsut plain sissy bullshit.

If your feelings are truly hurt because the teachers grade your papers in red pen...maybe you should go kill yourself.
bc your boss will damn sure have a red pen. what do you want it to be used for, tho? commenting on a draft of a report, or approving your punch card in the mill?

[redsox39]

if your feelings are hurt because you didn't get a sticker, you should probably do the same.


Agreed 100%. That is not where I am going though. The fact that the teachers cannot DO those things because of the Red pen kids feelings is the problem. If the elementary teacher want the kid who got 100% to have a damn sticker, than she should be able to do that.

[redsox39]

bc your boss will damn sure have a red pen. what do you want it to be used for, tho? commenting on a draft of a report, or approving your punch card in the mill?

As long as it is both, sign me up!

[Archetype]

thats just fucking stupid. wtf benefit is there to eliminating classes like AP calculus and physics in hs (which is what eliminating honors programs would have done, in my hs at least, by taking the honors kids 1yr backwards in match and science).

but as far as pandering to the weakest at the expense of the strongest - it sucks. but to use it as an excuse that you were being held back is a cop-out. in fact, i contend that using this as an excuse for performing below your capacity is part of the pussification we're talking about. just as these lefty teachers and ptas are claiming that treating kids that perform well differently than those that dont diminishes overall success, anyone claiming that this pussification is holding them back needs to look in the mirror.

True, from an individual standpoint. Sociologically? Not a chance. The standards of excellence are based on the whole, and if the whole sucks, well, the standards of excellence suffer. We're designed to do what we perceive we have to in order to survive. That comes about from a variety of ways, but if nobody cares if your awesome, you're pretty unlikely to end up being awesome. Even from the view of one person, that's a lot of rewiring you'd have to do. Not an excuse, but it is true.

[hatepoppy]

True, from an individual standpoint. Sociologically? Not a chance. The standards of excellence are based on the whole, and if the whole sucks, well, the standards of excellence suffer. We're designed to do what we perceive we have to in order to survive. That comes about from a variety of ways, but if nobody cares if your awesome, you're pretty unlikely to end up being awesome. Even from the view of one person, that's a lot of rewiring you'd have to do. Not an excuse, but it is true.i guess im just a crazy person. i remember thinking when i was in 1st grade, when i didnt have a crayon box bc i had no idea i needed one (and even if i did, i wouldnt have had the $1.25 or transportation to get one) and the teacher gave me an old cigar box to use, that my kids would know better, and be better provided for.

it didnt work out as id expected then (no gf, no kids until id graduated college, got a job, bought a house), but fuck. the idea was there, and the last thing i was thinking about were the 5 other kids being given (what was to me) a charity crayon box.

[hatepoppy]

HAHAHAHA OMG im fuckin retarded.

[riseabove!]

The U.S. has the (relatively) strongest army in the world. Everyone in the country thinks that, and with "back" like that i'd say no

[rc113943]

What they should do is actually talk to kids about how they feel about these kinds of things, before assuming that they are going to be detrimentally destroyed because of a lack of a fucking gold star on their paper....
But yeah, this is BS. My mom is a teacher and all the things they do are ridiculous. Whatever happened to competition? How are you supposed to know if you are good at something or better than everyone else if there is no critique, whether or not it is positive?

Hell yeah! We're all equals! The Successful Suffer and the Lazy Prosper! Eternal Mediocrity is the new American dream! That's Obama's America!

[hatepoppy]

The U.S. has the (relatively) strongest army in the world. Everyone in the country thinks that, and with "back" like that i'd say no
your comment. <--------------------------------------> the point.

you missed the point. sure our military is strong. but we're raising a bunch of sandy vagged faggots.

[The Batman]

Hell yeah! We're all equals! The Successful Suffer and the Lazy Prosper! Eternal Mediocrity is the new American dream! That's Obama's America!

I do remember some one named George Bush passing no Child Left Behind....

[kid_vidrio]

Hell yeah! We're all equals! The Successful Suffer and the Lazy Prosper! Eternal Mediocrity is the new American dream! That's Obama's America!
One of the biggest points that is being made ad nauseum on TV right now is that the product of a broken family, raised by a single mom and grand parents is now president.
How exactly, given the number of people espousing what is possible if you work for it, do you arrive at mediocrity being the American dream?

[redsox39]

I do remember some one named George Bush passing no Child Left Behind....


Me too! What a d-Bag, reaching across the isle like that to pass a Ten Kennedy and Hilary Clinton bill!

Like I said, those Dem's were up to no good!


No, I actually hate "NCLB", and so does my wife and all her teachers friends. What they don't remember is that their "Union" bought and paid for that bill with their dues.

[hatepoppy]

One of the biggest points that is being made ad nauseum on TV right now is that the product of a broken family, raised by a single mom and grand parents is now president.
How exactly, based on espousing what is possible if you work for it, do you arrive at mediocrity being the American dream?i think he's somehow drawn a parallel between obama's fiscal ideals and the pussified teachers. it;s like socialized self-esteem to him, i think. just bc it doesnt make any sense to anyone else doesnt mean he doesnt think obama's gonna insert a pinko in every classroom.

[redsox39]

Whoa! I never brought Obama into this...

This is a point I have been arguing since my wife became a teacher...Obama and politics have been brought up all over the place, but not in my posts...

[hatepoppy]

No, I actually hate "NCLB", and so does my wife and all her teachers friends. What they don't remember is that their "Union" bought and paid for that bill with their dues.
1) fuck unions
2) fuck the teachers' union, hard. talk about fail. where's my red pen?

[The Batman]

Me too! What a d-Bag, reaching across the isle like that to pass a Ten Kennedy and Hilary Clinton bill!

Like I said, those Dem's were up to no good!


No, I actually hate "NCLB", and so does my wife and all her teachers friends. What they don't remember is that their "Union" bought and paid for that bill with their dues.

Well it was dumb of everyone. He just said Obama, and showed him that everyone is doing it...
But yeah, my mom thinks it dumb and once its explained you can see how it is an utter failure.

[redsox39]

Yeah, the most powerful Union in the world, the NEA, has some of the worst "benefits" I have ever seen.

For my wife to have Dental and Medical for the Family its costs her over $800 a month! And she is part of the union.

My job, where I am a scab and refuse to join, I still only pay $200 to cover tha family with a much better plan and a "Murder Motive" life insurance policy.

[hatepoppy]

Whoa! I never brought Obama into this...

This is a point I have been arguing since my wife became a teacher...Obama and politics have been brought up all over the place, but not in my posts...
yeah i was def talkin about rc90210.

[redsox39]

ok, sorry. I never meant for this to be a political convo, we can go to about 100 other places to do the Obama Rules/Obama Sucks thing. I just want to condemn society for raising pussies right now.

[hatepoppy]

ok, sorry. I never meant for this to be a political convo, we can go to about 100 other places to do the Obama Rules/Obama Sucks thing. I just want to condemn society for raising pussies right now.right there w you.

DAMN YOU SOCIETEEZ!

[The Batman]

ok, sorry. I never meant for this to be a political convo, we can go to about 100 other places to do the Obama Rules/Obama Sucks thing. I just want to condemn society for raising pussies right now.

Don't forget movies are doing the same thing.
What is with the need to be so PC about everything? Hasn't anyone realized that conversations go no where when they truths are ignored because they are trying to be PC.

[hatepoppy]

Don't forget movies are doing the same thing.
What is with the need to be so PC about everything? Hasn't anyone realized that conversations go no where when they truths are ignored because they are trying to be PC.

consider the source - the govt! theyre trying to domesticate us, make us docile lil pussyfagvaginas so when they institute martial law they'll have to kill fewer of us, so theyll have more slaves for their underground internment camps.

[redsox39]

lol, jeez, he might be on to something...

[hatepoppy]

IKNORITE!

[The Batman]

consider the source - the govt! theyre trying to domesticate us, make us docile lil pussyfagvaginas so when they institute martial law they'll have to kill fewer of us, so theyll have more slaves for their underground internment camps.

But wouldn't you say the media has a big part of this? I mean they are firing people over facebook pages, small comments, it has just gotten insane just because of someone's feelings....
And you know what, why haven't we mentioned the super right wing agenda in all this? (not you normal folks)
Like the Parents Council... Aren't they really responsible for this pussification, since they are ALWAYS outraged about something stupid?

[redsox39]

And the super Left side as well, the ACLU is always outraged about something as well...

[hatepoppy]

But wouldn't you say the media has a big part of this? I mean they are firing people over facebook pages, small comments, it has just gotten insane just because of someone's feelings....
And you know what, why haven't we mentioned the super right wing agenda in all this? (not you normal folks)
Like the Parents Council... Aren't they really responsible for this pussification, since they are ALWAYS outraged about something?

who do you think controls the media? members of the council on foreign relations hold controlling interest in the media and government. The fcc is an appointed body, answerable only to the president. believe me when i say the media is the device by which then government primarily controls us. those parent associations youre talkingt about? where did they get the information to be outraged about? where did they get the values upon which their outrage is based? who taught them right from wrong?

you heard it here first, the government, the church, the media, the terrorists, the commies before them. all same thing. made in taiwan.

BOO!

[The Batman]

And the super Left side as well, the ACLU is always outraged about something as well...

good point. but its not as bad as nipple gate...

[redsox39]

No but having a hernia over the 10 commandments artwork/statue in a park is pretty gay too.

[redsox39]

Parent Groups: "A TIT!!! OMG! My kid might get horny!

ACLU: A STATUE!!! The people might be compelled to worship Jesus!

Both fucking re-DICK-u-lous

[HAWK]

And the super Left side as well, the ACLU is always outraged about something as well...

Yes...that's why extremists, whether "right" or "left," are always to far to one side to be objective. Only a true centrist or independent can begin to look at things objectively. Of course, all human perception is flawed when you get down to it.

[The Batman]

No but having a hernia over the 10 commandments artwork/statue in a park is pretty gay too.

what are u talking about? That thing in Alabama where the put up the 10 commandments in a gov't facility or something else?

[Archetype]

1) fuck unions
2) fuck the teachers' union, hard. talk about fail. where's my red pen?
The teachers' union is a sticky situation though, on basic principle, teachers are the most needed thing of really any country (not really, but go with me on this). Since it doesn't bring any actual revenue in, and teachers have relatively little power with the government in regards to, well, everything, you can only go so far as a teacher before being put in some administrative position (which turns into politicking rather than anything to do with actual quality education), so a lot of decent teachers either do that, or work their asses off for the narrow possibility of becoming a professor. Who don't necessarily get paid all that well. So they get put in this shitty situation where they're both a necessity of society, and yet get no say while having an important say in kids' development. And unions in general tend to suck. I don't know why I felt the need to say that. It just in general sucks.

[Genius]

I think this all is a load of shit and the biggest pussies in the world are those that sit around and cry, complain, bitch, moan, whine, and otherwise protest about how PC the world has become.

This is exactly like the "liberal media bias". IF YOU DON'T FUCKING LIKE SOMETHING, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, DON'T JUST SIT AROUND AND FUCKING WHINE.

[vasili denisov]

It'd be difficult to find a metric for this; however, one would be the level of martial spirit. At the time of September 11th, the US had no difficulty putting together a quality volunteer army equal to the task of fighting wars in two countries; you can point to more lax standards since then in an effort to keep up recruitment as a counterargument, but this drop can easily attributed to the poor leadership over the Iraq war as well as the recklessness of it; correlation of this would be the high retirement of army captains over the same period.
Parent Groups: "A TIT!!! OMG! My kid might get horny!

ACLU: A STATUE!!! The people might be compelled to worship Jesus!

Both fucking re-DICK-u-lous
If it's on cable or the internet, parents can't do a good goddamn about it, other than their own preventive measures of turning it off or installing an browser block program. Ten commandments in a private park would be of no concern of the ACLU; in a public park, it would be in violation of the constitution, not having anything to do with any recent development, and having everything to do with the document this country was founded on.

[redsox39]

Since I am assuming that you are talking about the First Amendment, here it is:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Pretty sure a statue in a public park representing a historical reference or document is pretty far from congress making a law respecting any religon. In fact, you could even argue, which religon does the 10 commandments represent? If any? If Hammurabi's code was in the park, would that be a 1st amendment issue? I think that it has more to do with it being an historical Law document from which many laws have been based than any kind of Bible thumper propganda tool. Take off "In god We Trust" before you start messing with Statues in Public parks. If it was a statue of Jesus, fine, take it down since, once again, we live in a nation of Pussies, and it makes someone feel bad. When do we hit the level of Taliban? When do we start destroying old religous statues or maybe defiling the United States Supreme court buildings to cover up the carving of Moses?

This is part of the Pussiness. I am not even religious, but a religious statue or a Verse of the Koran isn't going to ruin my day, in fact I might find it interesting if I pay any attention at all.

And where do you draw the line between Religion and Artwork?

It is fucking stupid sensitive pussy bullshit, and this wasn't a problem when the Founding fathers who wrote the damn thing were still alive, or their kids, or their grandkids were still alive, and they MIGHT have some better insight than we do to what the hell it means. In any case, a Statue in a public park of the 10 Commandments is just proving to me the reason for this poll. And what Law did Congress make that established a favoritism to a specific religon?

Get the sand out of your vagina ACLU, and quit making pussies out of my people.

[Insomniac]

Half the 10 Commandments have absolutely no bearing on non-religious people, while Hammurabi's code makes no appeals to God for its authority that I know of. Not that I'd support putting that up anywhere. Levitical laws are historical, but I don't want to see how to assign blame for beating slaves or what a woman is to do when she's on her period. It's irrelevant to the public.

But if we're a Christian nation, as so many claim, let's fill up our parks with the Beatitudes and Sermon on the Mount. If Dobson and Robertson were clamoring for that, I'd be all behind them. But if they actually read those, they wouldn't be clamoring for much of anything.

[redsox39]

Half the 10 Commandments have absolutely no bearing on non-religious people, while Hammurabi's code makes no appeals to God for its authority that I know of. Not that I'd support putting that up anywhere. Levitical laws are historical, but I don't want to see how to assign blame for beating slaves or what a woman is to do when she's on her period. It's irrelevant to the public.

But if we're a Christian nation, as so many claim, let's fill up our parks with the Beatitudes and Sermon on the Mount. If Dobson and Robertson were clamoring for that, I'd be all behind them. But if they actually read those, they wouldn't be clamoring for much of anything.


Gee, you mean to say that Christian's say we are a Christian Nation? weird...

And we aren't talking about a Huge Statue of Jesus towering over the City like in Rio, (those backwards people should tear that thing down, or blow it up Taliban style!), we are talking about a document that almost everyone has at least heard about, which is thousands of years old and it has an even more special meaning to religious people. Who is being wounded by this again?

[Insomniac]

Do you even read other people's posts?

[Morfin]

RedSox: You're wrong about the 10 Commandment marker being merely a historical document -- it is a religious marker consisting of the 10 most-hallowed laws of the Judeo-Christrian religions. By allowing its placement -- by itself -- in a public park, that is a statement about those religions and constitutes an "establishment." This issue is much more involved that just saying that it is the ACLU's fault or that it is a sign of the "Wussification" of the U.S.

I think (and I'm trying -- reluctantly -- to jump inside your head here) the point you are searching for is "C'mon, what's the big deal? It's a marker in a park. Who cares? Ignore it if you want to. No one is advocating anything here. You're making a mountain out of a molehill because you've got super-thin skin that is overly-sensitive to every little perceived slight."

I understand and agree with that argument in a lot of contexts, just not the 10 Commandments marker one.

I agree that parents are too concerned about protecting their children from every little potentially-negative experience. That is wrong on so many levels, not the least of all is that children must be allowed to embrace exploring new things and taking risks -- otherwise they will not learn. Children must experience hurts and losing and failing so they can deal with it. And they must learn the bad feeling of losing as a motivator to excel. If kids don't ever experience the despair of losing, they will never experience the absolute joy of winning at something and why hard work is important.

Sorry, my dadness just came out. Time to go smack my son upside the head.

[redsox39]

Ok, here is the Hypothetical situation.

Let's Say Brazil decides it is tired of protecting the Amazon all by them selves and decide to become the 51st state.

Do we tear down the Statue of Jesus on Rio?
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/jesus.jpg

Once again, this just seems retarded to stop using common sense. If this was the original intent of the founding fathers, why did it take 250 years to figure it out? Not likely. They wanted to make sure no one was oppressed by a religion backed by a government. Period. since they just escaped that. And they wanted people to feel free to practice any religion they want. Congress made no law in this situation, but some assholes just have to be so PC.

In fact, I would go so far as to say the ACLU type have as much tolerance for dissenting opinions and usage of common sense, as the Taliban.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/taliban1.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/talban2.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/taliban3.jpg

[The Dude]

for the record, the statue of O Cristo Redentor is pure awesomeness...you all need some jesus

[Morfin]

I don't have enough brain power to work out your hypothetical about Brazil. The Taliban is easier as it was destroying religious artifacts which, in their mind, ran counter to the religious beliefs of the State.

The point is whether placing a marker of the 10 Commandments in a public park, even if no public money was involved, does, to a limited extent, force religious beliefs on one who believes differently. The issue is the public park -- it is to be free of any established religious displays.

The closest analogy is putting a creche on display in a City Hall. It is commemorating -- albeit in a very minor way -- a religious aspect of Christmas. As an atheist, I have a problem with that. As a taxpayer, I have a problem with my tax money being spent on any holiday displays, whether they be religious or just stupid frickin' lights (but I digress).

And, yes, I do object to "In God We Trust" on my money. It's not a big deal, but it doesn't need to be there. And, I object to the Pledge of Allegiance being taught with "Under God" in it. (I am not real keen on the whole idea of "pledging" allegiance to our country, but that is another digression).

I've rambled on enough. What was the question?

[Archangel]

You people are way too touchy about religion. You're a democracy, right? How many of your voters consider themselves Christians, 70%? Problem solved.

I remember this Abdullah who a few years ago tried to have all the crosses in Rome (!!!) taken down because they impinged on his freedom of religion. The judge (apparently one of the few sensible ones left in Europe) told him that if he didn't like crosses, he should move the fuck out of the centre of Christianity (in a country where 85% of people declare themselves as Catholic, no less), and lobby to have all Muslim symbols removed from Mecca.

[redsox39]

You people are way too touchy about religion. You're a democracy, right? How many of your voters consider themselves Christians, 70%? Problem solved.

I remember this Abdullah who a few years ago tried to have all the crosses in Rome (!!!) taken down because they impinged on his freedom of religion. The judge (apparently one of the few sensible ones left in Europe) told him that if he didn't like crosses, he should move the fuck out of the centre of Christianity (in a country where 85% of people declare themselves as Catholic, no less), and lobby to have all Muslim symbols removed from Mecca.

Great points!

And someone buy that judge a beer!

[Morfin]

Don't push me, young man. You're bein' trollish.

The issue is more basic than that. We, as a country and as a people, going back to the Pilgrims, wanted freedom from the tyranny of government-backed religions. (Yes, the Pilgrim Puritans came here and immediately started that same sort of tyranny, but we'll put that aside for the moment.) The issue was getting away from the tyranny.

Our Founding Fathers specifically wanted to instill this freedom from a government-sponsored religion, so they included in the First Amendment. Many of them were religious men and many were not, but, as a group, they did not believe that religion was something a government should be involved in, and that a person's individual choice of religion (or of no religion) should not be subject to the tyranny of the majority. (I realize you know all of this, most likely, better than I, but allow me to say it anyway.)

The freedom from establishment of a religion is a basic and important one. Therefore, any perceived establishment -- no matter how trivial (and there are cases involving things much more trivial than the 10 Commandments monument -- needs to be nipped in the bud.

The difference in Italy (as in Brazil, I believe), is that there is a strong religious base going back centuries and, in Italy's case, two millennia. So, I can understand an Italian judge saying, "If you come to our country, put up with the crosses or leave." Italy and its former nation-states, were based in a common religion. But in the U.S. it is different as we were formed to be free from governmental intrusion on our beliefs or from forcing those beliefs on us.

The ACLU gets a bad rap because it takes all of these trivial cases of perceived slights and religious establishments. When I was in school in Madison, Wisconsion, there was a nutty lady objecting to privately-paid religious ads on city buses, and objecting to the football team at the public university saying a pre-game prayer. But, the concern is the slippery slope.

I used to not worry about the slippery slope too much as I figured that when the cause was important, the right decision would be reached. However, with the PATRIOT Act and its chipping away at our civil freedoms, I tend to take the slippery slope arguments more seriously now.

[redsox39]

Don't push me, young man. You're bein' trollish.

The issue is more basic than that. We, as a country and as a people, going back to the Pilgrims, wanted freedom from the tyranny of government-backed religions. (Yes, the Pilgrim Puritans came here and immediately started that same sort of tyranny, but we'll put that aside for the moment.) The issue was getting away from the tyranny.

Our Founding Fathers specifically wanted to instill this freedom from a government-sponsored religion, so they included in the First Amendment. Many of them were religious men and many were not, but, as a group, they did not believe that religion was something a government should be involved in, and that a person's individual choice of religion (or of no religion) should not be subject to the tyranny of the majority. (I realize you know all of this, most likely, better than I, but allow me to say it anyway.)

The freedom from establishment of a religion is a basic and important one. Therefore, any perceived establishment -- no matter how trivial (and there are cases involving things much more trivial than the 10 Commandments monument -- needs to be nipped in the bud.

The difference in Italy (as in Brazil, I believe), is that there is a strong religious base going back centuries and, in Italy's case, two millennia. So, I can understand an Italian judge saying, "If you come to our country, put up with the crosses or leave." But in the U.S. it is different.

The ACLU gets a bad rap because it takes all of these trivial cases of perceived slights and religious establishments. When I was in school in Madison, Wisconsion, there was a nutty lady objecting to privately-paid religious ads on city buses, and objecting to the football team at the public university saying a pre-game prayer. But, the concern is the slippery slope.

I used to not worry about the slippery slope too much as I figured that when the cause was important, the right decision would be reached. However, with the PATRIOT Act and its chipping away at our civil freedoms, I tend to take the slippery slope arguments more seriously now.

Once again, I think you are being thin skinned. Having a 2000 year old reproduction in a park does not say "BIG GOVERNMENT IS HERE TO OPRESS YOU! BOW DOWN TO THE 10 COMMANDMENTS!!!"

It says, in this local community, people have embraced the message of the 10 commandments. Face your mat west and pray to Allah for all we care.

[Archangel]

To Morfin:
Yeah, but if in a city/county/State that's overwhelmingly, say, methodist, people say that they want a statue of Moses in public square, the three atheists/Muslims/whatever there can democratically go fuck themselves.

Almost half of America didn't want Bush. They got him anyway, because arguably more people wanted him. So a lot of American soldiers got sent off to be killed. I'm pretty sure that if a democracy can let that happen, it can deal with the majority of a given group of people getting a fucking statue of whatever they want.

EDIT: I find myself agreeing a lot with redsox here. Worrisome...

[vasili denisov]

First off, this thread is way off track. You opened with a very open premise ("United States has gotten 'wussier'"), provided no definition or support for the premise, so now you cite a ragtag bunch of things as possible symptoms of some illness you haven't defined.
Ok, here is the Hypothetical situation.

Let's Say Brazil decides it is tired of protecting the Amazon all by them selves and decide to become the 51st state.

Do we tear down the Statue of Jesus on Rio?

No. There would be two ways of dealing with this problem. You've taken an attempt to prevent the government from advocating any religion (which is the reason why something explicitly religious is not allowed in a public space) into the government having an anti-religion stance; the two are not equivalent. In the case of this statue, an argument can be made that though the statue is religious, it also has great historic and artistic qualities, that it has importance as a religious monument, but by no means exclusively as a religious one. Such an argument might be made about a renaissance era sculpture or painting; it couldn't be made about a simple list of the ten commandments, where the importance lies exclusively with its religious qualities.

A much simpler solution, which would avoid even the possibility of legal back-and-forth, would be if the government were to lease, or just out and out sell, the portion of the public land containing the statue either to a private institution or the catholic church, who maintain upkeep of the land and the statue. Worshippers and non-worshippers are satisfied, and no public funds are used for the upkeep of statuary devoted to any one religion.

As for wussiness, I would say one defining aspect of it could be found in those in society who are well-fed and sheltered enough not to have any sense of hardship, and compare any small issue they come across to a great historical tragedy of an unlike scale. One example would be a person who compares a poor grade on a test to the jewish holocaust. Another might be someone who relates the toothless legal wrangling in the US over religious monuments to the murderous scorched earth persecution of the Taliban against so many people and faiths.

[redsox39]

First off, this thread is way off track. You opened with a very open premise ("United States has gotten 'wussier'"), provided no definition or support for the premise, so now you cite a ragtag bunch of things as possible symptoms of some illness you haven't defined.

No. There would be two ways of dealing with this problem. You've taken an attempt to prevent the government from advocating any religion (which is the reason why something explicitly religious is not allowed in a public space) into the government having an anti-religion stance; the two are not equivalent. In the case of this statue, an argument can be made that though the statue is religious, it also has great historic and artistic qualities, that it has importance as a religious monument, but by no means exclusively as a religious one. Such an argument might be made about a renaissance era sculpture or painting; it couldn't be made about a simple list of the ten commandments, where the importance lies exclusively with its religious qualities.

A much simpler solution, which would avoid even the possibility of legal back-and-forth, would be if the government were to lease, or just out and out sell, the portion of the public land containing the statue either to a private institution or the catholic church, who maintain upkeep of the land and the statue. Worshippers and non-worshippers are satisfied, and no public funds are used for the upkeep of statuary devoted to any one religion.

As for wussiness, I would say one defining aspect of it could be found in those in society who are well-fed and sheltered enough not to have any sense of hardship, and compare any small issue they come across to a great historical tragedy of an unlike scale. One example would be a person who compares a poor grade on a test to the jewish holocaust. Another might be someone who relates the toothless legal wrangling in the US over religious monuments to the murderous scorched earth persecution of the Taliban against so many people and faiths.

How Old does it have to be to Qualify as important art? How about the Supreme court frescos and sculptures? Those are not even 100 years old, yet they have 2 key religious figures on them, Moses and Confuscious...
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/supremecourt.jpg
Do we scratch them out?

I am definetly not saying the government is anti-religion, far from it. And I hate most government. I am saying we are letting 1% of people dictate to the masses on something very trival. And the ACLU is the forefront for PC wimpyness.


Going back to Nipple gate, I would have to say more people would be upset with their kids seeing a naked breast on TV than playing in a park with a Statue of the 10 commandments, and we ridicule the people who are upset about JJ's boob.

[hatepoppy]

i challenge your assertion that confucius is a religious figure. he was a philosopher.

[redsox39]

i challenge your assertion that confucius is a religious figure. he was a philosopher.

so was Jesus. So what?

Do people follow his teachings to try to lead better lives and find inner peace and happiness? Is there a group of people who actively search to bring people into that flock and promote their way as right?

Thsi is different how?

But to quote others:

The world's principal religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) and spiritual traditions may be classified into a small number of major groups or world religions. According to the 2005 survey of Encyclopædia Britannica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica), the vast majority of religious and spiritual adherents follow Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity) (33% of world population (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population)), Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam) (20%), Hinduism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism) (13%), Chinese folk religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_folk_religion) (6.3%) or Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) (5.9%). The irreligious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion) and atheists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism) make up about 14%, and about 4% follow indigenous tribal religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_religion).
These spiritual traditions may be either combined into larger super-groups, or separated into smaller sub-denominations. Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity), Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam) and Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism) (and sometimes the Bahá'í Faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3%A1%27%C3%AD_Faith)) are summarized as Abrahamic religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religion). Hinduism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism), Buddhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism), Sikhism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism) and Jainism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism) are classified as Indian religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_religion) (or Dharmic religions). Chinese folk religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_folk_religion), Confucianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism), Taoism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism) and Shinto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto) are classified as East Asian religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asian_religion) (or Far Eastern, Chinese, or Taoic religions).

Here is a Picture of WuweiTemple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WuweiTemple.jpg), a Confucian temple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucian_temple). a Temple. Must not be a religion...
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/800px-WuweiTemple.jpg

[hatepoppy]

still callin bullshit. you cant have religion without jesus, or priests to teach lil boys how god likes his taint licked.

[redsox39]

still callin bullshit. you cant have religion without jesus, or priests to teach lil boys how god likes his taint licked.


WHEW! for a second I though Jews were religious!

[hatepoppy]

WHEW! for a second I though Jews were religious!
jews are aliens. think about it. WHO BILT TEH PYRAMIDS!

[redsox39]

Thread is Dead. lol

[hatepoppy]

obama built the pyramids, muffukka. vote or die!

[Yelram]

obama built the pyramids, muffukka. vote or die!

Ah men Ra = O ba Ma?

[hatepoppy]

Ah men Ra = O ba Ma?
youre not allowed to say obama ever again. youre just a bitter lil retard trying to squeeze jabs into any context you come across.

it's old. the old stupid one lost. this is a surprise only bc youve been in denial for about 9 weeks. get a grip. get over it.

oh, and suck balls.

[hatepoppy]

...said the retard out of nowhere.

[hatepoppy]

we should make kids bring a machete to the first day back after xmas brak each year when theyre in the 5th grade.

pair up. then...FIGHT! there can be only one!

imagine how badass our kids would end up then. well, or dead. but fuckem, they were a pussy. who gets killed by a 9 yr old?

[vasili denisov]

How Old does it have to be to Qualify as important art? How about the Supreme court frescos and sculptures? Those are not even 100 years old, yet they have 2 key religious figures on them, Moses and Confuscious...
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/jyce50/supremecourt.jpg
Do we scratch them out?
You're mixing up a reference to a religious figure with a context that construes religious advocacy. The sculpture features Moses, Solon, and Confucius; the common feature of these men is their emphasis on law. There are other figures in the sculpture involved in the study of law, as well as a tortoise and hare, a reference to the idea that justice may sometimes work slowly, but it does work. Only a single figure is from the Old Testament, and his importance is not his religious significance, but his connection to laws (he is portrayed not alone, but holding the commandments). The sculpture is no more celebrating him as christian idol than it is celebrating pagan faiths that might worship hares and tortoises.

To reiterate, there is a difference between religious advocacy through public funds or a public space and a reference to a faith. A course teaching the bible would be verboten in a public school; a course which taught Tolstoy's "The Death of Ivan Illyich" where the teacher identified and examined the christian themes of that work, or references to the Koran in "Swallows of Kabul" would be acceptable, since the teacher is not advocating a faith.

[Mustard]

I blame the "moral majority", "abstinance only education", and "values voters" for the pussification of America.

[satandole666]

I blame the "moral majority", "abstinance only education", and "values voters" for the pussification of America.

Abstinence only education doesn't make people pussies, it makes them stupid.

All of our political correctness and harassment laws make people pussies.

[Mustard]

Abstinence only education doesn't make people pussies, it makes them stupid.
Stupid people who are afraid to have sex, aka pussies.

All of our political correctness and harassment laws make people pussies.
I'm with you on PC. But wait just a second...

if I'm reading correcty, if it would depussify Americans, you're cool with a mandate that would remove harassment protections?

Naw man. There are real and valid reasons those are in place. The fact that vindictive women take advantage of those mandates doesn't make Americans pussies, it makes them spiteful cunts.

[Claydon]

I was unaware of PC until the clinton era around 1993/94 when blacks became african americans and retarded children were special needs/learning disabled.

[Claydon]

Politically Correct University.... classic

zRZf-_XhO4U&

[satandole666]

Stupid people who are afraid to have sex, aka pussies.


I'm with you on PC. But wait just a second...

if I'm reading correcty, if it would depussify Americans, you're cool with a mandate that would remove harassment protections?

Naw man. There are real and valid reasons those are in place. The fact that vindictive women take advantage of those mandates doesn't make Americans pussies, it makes them spiteful cunts.

Harassment laws are necessary, but they have become the catch-all clause of American corporations. They are applied too liberally and enforced too harshly in many circumstances IMO. I was told at work that if a woman gives you an odd look after you make a comment chances are you just did something inappropriate. I'm glad an "odd look" is an appropriate criteria for harassment.

[Claydon]

sex harassment rules are obscene. pretty much they favor women (particulary in california). Pretty much she can make an accusation with NO evidence, he gets written up and can be fired without any form of due process or discussion of what occurred.

[redsox39]

You're mixing up a reference to a religious figure with a context that construes religious advocacy. The sculpture features Moses, Solon, and Confucius; the common feature of these men is their emphasis on law. There are other figures in the sculpture involved in the study of law, as well as a tortoise and hare, a reference to the idea that justice may sometimes work slowly, but it does work. Only a single figure is from the Old Testament, and his importance is not his religious significance, but his connection to laws (he is portrayed not alone, but holding the commandments). The sculpture is no more celebrating him as christian idol than it is celebrating pagan faiths that might worship hares and tortoises.

To reiterate, there is a difference between religious advocacy through public funds or a public space and a reference to a faith. A course teaching the bible would be verboten in a public school; a course which taught Tolstoy's "The Death of Ivan Illyich" where the teacher identified and examined the christian themes of that work, or references to the Koran in "Swallows of Kabul" would be acceptable, since the teacher is not advocating a faith.

So than you agree, Moses and the 10 commandments is NOT a religious thing and more of a shout out to written law.

[Gary_Busey]

The 10 Commandments are pretty fucking religious.

[hatepoppy]

The 10 Commandments are pretty fucking religious.
your logic is of no use to us here in crazytown.

[hatepoppy]

So than you agree, Moses and the 10 commandments is NOT a religious thing and more of a shout out to written law.
*then
*are
*but
*shout-out

and btw, youre retarded. how can you argue that confucius was a religious figure, but moses is not?

[Stax]

Read Van Orden v. Perry and the case handed down going the other way the same day, McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky. The key vote between the two, and Wiki pulls a good quote from his concurrence in Van Orden.

The case before us is a borderline case. It concerns a large granite monument bearing the text of the Ten Commandments located on the grounds of the Texas State Capitol. On the one hand, the Commandments' text undeniably has a religious message, invoking, indeed emphasizing, the Deity. On the other hand, focusing on the text of the Commandments alone cannot conclusively resolve this case. Rather, to determine the message that the text here conveys, we must examine how the text is used. And that inquiry requires us to consider the context of the display.

[explains context]

If these factors provide a strong, but not conclusive, indication that the Commandments' text on this monument conveys a predominantly secular message, a further factor is determinative here. As far as I can tell, 40 years passed in which the presence of this monument, legally speaking, went unchallenged (until the single legal objection raised by petitioner). And I am not aware of any evidence suggesting that this was due to a climate of intimidation. Hence, those 40 years suggest more strongly than can any set of formulaic tests that few individuals, whatever their system of beliefs, are likely to have understood the monument as amounting, in any significantly detrimental way, to a government effort to favor a particular religious sect, primarily to promote religion over nonreligion, to "engage in" any "religious practic[e]," to "compel" any "religious practic[e]," or to "work deterrence" of any "religious belief." Schempp, 374 U. S., at 305 (Goldberg, J., concurring). Those 40 years suggest that the public visiting the capitol grounds has considered the religious aspect of the tablets' message as part of what is a broader moral and historical message reflective of a cultural heritage.

In McCreary a similar 10 Commandments display was put up at a courthouse, but amongst a display of American historical documents labeled "The Foundations of American Law and Government Display." And it was struck down.

I really couldn't give two craps about this first step onto the slippery slope of the establishment clause, but the big thing as far as today's court is concerned seems to be how passive the display is. Some random stone sitting in the lawn of a courthouse in Texas? They let it slide by 5-4. The same words, but enshrined along side actual documents of law and labeled as one of them? They strike it down 5-4.

[Archangel]

The 10 Commandments are pretty fucking religious.

NO! Really? Whatever gave you that idea?


Hmm.


1And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.

2The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

4The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

5(I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount; ) saying,

6I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

8Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

10And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

11Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

12Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

13Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:

14But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

16Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

17Thou shalt not kill.

18Neither shalt thou commit adultery.

19Neither shalt thou steal.

20Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

21Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.

22These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

23And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;

24And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.

25Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.

26For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?

27Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.

28And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken.

29O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

30Go say to them, Get you into your tents again.

31But as for thee, stand thou here by me, and I will speak unto thee all the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which thou shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess it.

32Ye shall observe to do therefore as the LORD your God hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.

33Ye shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess.

[Archangel]

The ironic thing is that a statue of Moses in itself is a violation of the Third Commandment, strictly speaking.

[The Batman]

The ironic thing is that a statue of Moses in itself is a violation of the Third Commandment, strictly speaking.

Ah religion, what a contradiction you are....

[Claibo]

Ah religion, what a contradiction you are....

I agree...

[Feng]

America has been a nation of pussies ever since the baby boomer generation.

Having said that, what's wrong with pussy?

[rc113943]

So here's a question, what do we call this new america? where kids in school aren't allowed to fail, everyone gets a trophy, and nobody is allowed to stand out (in a good or bad way). what do we call this new america where businesses are no longer allowed to fail, where we interject with a market correction to bail out banks, insurance companies, the auto industry, etc. what do we call this new america that will eventually encourage censorship and the expansion of welfare for people that are unwilling to work for a living? this is not capitalism, this is not america.

[Claydon]

So here's a question, what do we call this new america? where kids in school aren't allowed to fail, everyone gets a trophy, and nobody is allowed to stand out (in a good or bad way). what do we call this new america where businesses are no longer allowed to fail, where we interject with a market correction to bail out banks, insurance companies, the auto industry, etc. what do we call this new america that will eventually encourage censorship and the expansion of welfare for people that are unwilling to work for a living? this is not capitalism, this is not america.

The country formerly known as the greatest economic/cultural engine of the world.

[Claydon]

America has been a nation of pussies ever since the baby boomer generation.

Having said that, what's wrong with pussy?

Well, its kind of like money. It is totally fucking awful unless you do not have any of it.

Last I heard, your virginity had grown back.

[vasili denisov]

So than you agree, Moses and the 10 commandments is NOT a religious thing and more of a shout out to written law.
No. You've ignored a crucial part of my point, either accidentally or willfully. It is a reference to law in the context of statuary which idealises justices and carries no common religious theme, christian or otherwise. Were Moses to be removed from the statuary, it would not change its meaning. There's a redundancy to the symbol; this place of justice has a symbol representing justice. On the other hand, the ten commandments alone is exclusively a christian symbol, with law (though a specific christian law) as a small aspect.