Bush Facing Flood Of Pardon Requests

[dadaelus]

So, VBookies, anyone want to start making book on who gets the pardons? Anyone have a personal favorite to receive the clemency of kings?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27957556/

Snip:

WASHINGTON - Historically stingy with granting pardons, President George W. Bush is facing a flood of requests for get-out-of-jail cards or wiping criminals' records clean on his way out of the White House.

Junk-bond king Michael Milken, media mogul Conrad Black and American-born Taliban soldier John Walker Lindh are among the more than 2,000 people who have applied to the Justice Department seeking official forgiveness in the form of pardons or sentence commutations.

But with Bush's term ending Jan. 20, some lawyers are lobbying the White House directly to pardon their clients. That raises the possibility that the president could excuse scores of people, including some who have not been charged, to protect them from future accusations, such as former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales or star baseball pitcher Roger Clemens.

[Claydon]

This is normal for this part of the Presidency. Clinton pardoned that ass fuck who skipped out on millions in taxes, this same guy was also a HUGE contributor to the DNC and Clinton's campaigns.

[dadaelus]

So which ass fucks get the pardons now? Gonzales? Cheney?

[Rover]

Scooter Libby should get one.
The 2 border patrol agents that shot the Mexican drug trafficker should get one.

Gonzales doesn't need one because the only real problem anyone had with him is that he fired people he could fire. Despite all the ranting and raving of the radical Left, Cheney hasn't done anything either, so he won't get one. Besides Obama isn't dumb enough to go on a political witch hunt looking to imprison anyone from the Bush administration.

[Archetype]

No pardons. Guaranteed.

[dadaelus]

Scooter Libby should get one.
The 2 border patrol agents that shot the Mexican drug trafficker should get one.

Gonzales doesn't need one because the only real problem anyone had with him is that he fired people he could fire. Despite all the ranting and raving of the radical Left, Cheney hasn't done anything either, so he won't get one. Besides Obama isn't dumb enough to go on a political witch hunt looking to imprison anyone from the Bush administration.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11/18/cheney-gonale-indicted/

Doubt that these will go too far but you can never tell...



Cheney, Gonzales Indicted in Texas Prison Case

Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales have been indicted on state charges involving federal prisons in a South Texas county that has been a source of bizarre legal and political battles under the outgoing prosecutor.


The indictment returned Monday has not yet been signed by the presiding judge, and no action can be taken until that happens.

[Claydon]

Those indictments are pretty much fodder for wiping your ass with. My cat barfs up better legal briefs then what those courts produced.

[Stax]

The 2 border patrol agents that shot the Mexican drug trafficker should get one.

Fuck those guys. I don't know the case in detail, but from what I gathered watching a bit of Glenn Beck (and he was DEFENDING them, so I imagine he presented a friendly case) they shot a guy running away not threatening them who it turned out happened to be a drug smuggler. Even if they knew he was a drug trafficker that doesn't authorize lethal force, and as I understand it they didn't even know that much. Fuck those guys.

[vasili denisov]

Gonzales doesn't need one because the only real problem anyone had with him is that he fired people he could fire.
No, it wasn't. Gonzales is open to indictment for perjury for making statements before Congress concerning NSA surveillance, DoJ firings, and torture which have been contradicted both by witnesses and relevant documents; he is also open for indictment for suborning perjury among those who worked for him and made assertions before Congress similarly contradicted; he is open to charges of obstruction of justice since some fired attorneys were pursuing investigations considered unfavourable to republican candidates. Stating the obvious: these are very, very serious charges.

[Crack]

OJ will get one.

[taters]

Bush pardons are one big reason certain members of congress and potential Obama appointees are waiting until after Bush leaves office to bring up cases and press for charges.


The first to be sacrificed to the lambs...Alberto Gonzales.

[Archangel]

Gonzales doesn't need one because the only real problem anyone had with him is that he fired people he could fire.
No, it wasn't. Gonzales is open to indictment for perjury for making statements before Congress concerning NSA surveillance, DoJ firings, and torture which have been contradicted both by witnesses and relevant documents; he is also open for indictment for suborning perjury among those who worked for him and made assertions before Congress similarly contradicted; he is open to charges of obstruction of justice since some fired attorneys were pursuing investigations considered unfavourable to republican candidates. Stating the obvious: these are very, very serious charges.

Yeah, but your arguments make sense, so the right won't understand them.

[dadaelus]

Bush pardons are one big reason certain members of congress and potential Obama appointees are waiting until after Bush leaves office to bring up cases and press for charges.


The first to be sacrificed to the lambs...Alberto Gonzales.

Didn't Ford pardon Nixon even though he was not indited?

Now, therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from July (January) 20, 1969, through August 9, 1974.

[Morfin]

Yes, that is what Ford did. There is speculation that he will do the same for Cheney, Gonzales, and other high-ranking former and present Administration members in order to prevent political prosecutions.

Personally, I agree with that. Regardless of what Cheney has done, we, as a country, cannot endure the spectacle of criminal charges for things that occurred in office. Note that this is different than, say, the charges surrounding Spiro Agnew that had to do with acts outside of his official actions as Vice President.

Without debating whether charges are or are not sustainable in Cheney's case, The potential for abuse in future cases is too high. Christ, one merely needs to look at the whole Clinton impeachment circus to see how the process can be abused. (And, just so this does not devolve into a Clinton impeachment thread, I am one of the biggest Clinton -- Bill and Hillary -- on this planet. As Arch is to athletic shoes, I am to Clinton-hating.)

[Swurgen]

The 2 border patrol agents that shot the Mexican drug trafficker should get one.Fuck those guys. I don't know the case in detail, but from what I gathered watching a bit of Glenn Beck (and he was DEFENDING them, so I imagine he presented a friendly case) they shot a guy running away not threatening them who it turned out happened to be a drug smuggler. Even if they knew he was a drug trafficker that doesn't authorize lethal force, and as I understand it they didn't even know that much. Fuck those guys.

Anybody intentionally crossing the border who refuses to stop should be shot. Pardon them and give them medals.

[dadaelus]

Yes, that is what Ford did. There is speculation that he will do the same for Cheney, Gonzales, and other high-ranking former and present Administration members in order to prevent political prosecutions.

Personally, I agree with that. Regardless of what Cheney has done, we, as a country, cannot endure the spectacle of criminal charges for things that occurred in office. Note that this is different than, say, the charges surrounding Spiro Agnew that had to do with acts outside of his official actions as Vice President.

Without debating whether charges are or are not sustainable in Cheney's case, The potential for abuse in future cases is too high. Christ, one merely needs to look at the whole Clinton impeachment circus to see how the process can be abused. (And, just so this does not devolve into a Clinton impeachment thread, I am one of the biggest Clinton -- Bill and Hillary -- on this planet. As Arch is to athletic shoes, I am to Clinton-hating.)

The way I see it, Bush could pardon everybody and not see a radical change in the way that he is viewed by the public now or by historians in the future. So grab the pen and get to work. There would probably be more of an uproar over Clemens getting a pardon then Cheney.

[misterfatt]

michael vick.

[Captain Insano]

The 2 border patrol agents that shot the Mexican drug trafficker should get one.Fuck those guys. I don't know the case in detail, but from what I gathered watching a bit of Glenn Beck (and he was DEFENDING them, so I imagine he presented a friendly case) they shot a guy running away not threatening them who it turned out happened to be a drug smuggler. Even if they knew he was a drug trafficker that doesn't authorize lethal force, and as I understand it they didn't even know that much. Fuck those guys.

Anybody intentionally crossing the border who refuses to stop should be shot. Pardon them and give them medals.

AGREED!

[BIG PIZZLE]

It takes a real hero to soot someone in the back.

[Morfin]

Or applaud someone for it.

[taters]

It takes a real hero to soot someone in the back.

Apparently only if its mexican immigrants your shooting.

[Claydon]

I love how tater refers to people breaking the law as immigrants.

in taters eyes OJ was just having a bum day 10 years ago.

[Genius]

Scooter Libby, I'd have no problem with.

Cheney, I could see the "not good for the country" argument.

Gonzalez, I don't see the argument. This guy could go down hard, and it would not significantly hurt the country. At this point, who is defending Alberto, anyway?

[Claydon]

Scooter Libby, I'd have no problem with.

Cheney, I could see the "not good for the country" argument.

Gonzalez, I don't see the argument. This guy could go down hard, and it would not significantly hurt the country. At this point, who is defending Alberto, anyway?

Who gives a fuck after the change over you know? Except, maybe vindictive partisan types.

[taters]

I love how tater refers to people breaking the law as immigrants.

in taters eyes OJ was just having a bum day 10 years ago.

I love how you bring up arguments that have nothing to do with the topic, and make up claims about others as if they told you their self.

The ghey-ness continues with you.

[Swurgen]

It takes a real hero to soot someone in the back.

Apparently only if its mexican immigrants your shooting.

That's racist, dammit! Why would they have to be mexican immigrants? There are plenty of other illegal immigrants in this country...why do people like you always have to assume that they're all mexican?!?!?

[taters]

It takes a real hero to soot someone in the back.

Apparently only if its mexican immigrants your shooting.

That's racist, dammit! Why would they have to be mexican immigrants? There are plenty of other illegal immigrants in this country...why do people like you always have to assume that they're all mexican?!?!?


You dont hear about people shooting Canadians (ironically enough, from what I hear it used to happen 50+ years ago, usually drunken hunters getting into fights in the northwest and upper midwest).

[Mustard]

Ken Lay

[dadaelus]

Speak of the devil...

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/876qyutv.asp?pg=1

Kristol Calls On Bush To Pardon Torturers And Wiretappers

Snip:


Before He Goes
What President Bush could accomplish in his final days in office.

One last thing: Bush should consider pardoning--and should at least be vociferously praising--everyone who served in good faith in the war on terror, but whose deeds may now be susceptible to demagogic or politically inspired prosecution by some seeking to score political points. The lawyers can work out if such general or specific preemptive pardons are possible; it may be that the best Bush can or should do is to warn publicly against any such harassment or prosecution. But the idea is this: The CIA agents who waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and the NSA officials who listened in on phone calls from Pakistan, should not have to worry about legal bills or public defamation. In fact, Bush might want to give some of these public servants the Medal of Freedom at the same time he bestows the honor on Generals Petraeus and Odierno. They deserve it.

[Stax]

I love how tater refers to people breaking the law as immigrants.

in taters eyes OJ was just having a bum day 10 years ago.

Illegal immigration is illegal. It is not, however, a crime punishable by death.

[taters]

Kristol is such a sleazy scumbag. An ugly buzzard at that.

[willydong]

i'd like pres. bush to pardon me for lingering over brazierre ads in the local newspaper; i'm not not a perv, i'm just compelled...

[Lone Wolf]

He should Pardon Saddam

[Morfin]

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/876qyutv.asp?pg=1

Kristol Calls On Bush To Pardon Torturers And Wiretappers

Snip:


Before He Goes
What President Bush could accomplish in his final days in office.

One last thing: Bush should consider pardoning--and should at least be vociferously praising--everyone who served in good faith in the war on terror, but whose deeds may now be susceptible to demagogic or politically inspired prosecution by some seeking to score political points. The lawyers can work out if such general or specific preemptive pardons are possible; it may be that the best Bush can or should do is to warn publicly against any such harassment or prosecution. But the idea is this: The CIA agents who waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and the NSA officials who listened in on phone calls from Pakistan, should not have to worry about legal bills or public defamation. In fact, Bush might want to give some of these public servants the Medal of Freedom at the same time he bestows the honor on Generals Petraeus and Odierno. They deserve it.

If that is the case, then let's give one to Lt. Calley. He was just following orders, you know?

[Crack]

Regular people should send in requests to see how retarded this guy might be?

[Morfin]

You are an idiot, Crack.

[dadaelus]

A snip below of a WSJ Online article that says that Bush may end up not granting sweeping pardons. My favorite part is the position that if Bush grants sweeping pardons based on participation in controversial anti terror programs that they would be seen as admitting that the programs are illegal.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122756675347954409.html


Sweeping Pardons 'Unnecessary'
White House Is Disinclined to Grant Clemency to Officials Involved in Terror Policies
By EVAN PEREZ

WASHINGTON -- The White House isn't inclined to grant sweeping pardons for former administration officials involved in harsh interrogations and detentions of terror suspects, according to people familiar with the situation.

Some Republicans have been pushing for President George W. Bush to grant pre-emptive clemency to officials who fear being investigated by Democratic critics. White House officials have countered that such pardons are unnecessary, these people say. The officials point to Justice Department legal opinions that supported the administration's methods of detaining and interrogating terror suspects.

[Morfin]

As much as I believe that the Bush/Cheney administration broke constitutional, U.S. statutory, and International law during their 8 years in office, I hope he does give the pre-emptive clemency/pardons so that this doesn't devolve into a the political circus from Hell. It would be ugly, unseemly, and very embarrassing -- not from the aspect of what would "come out," but from having us go through the process with all the self-righteous politicians.

[dadaelus]

Sadly, I am in some agreement there. But, criminal investigations aside, I am more interested in seeing if Obama will just release information that the current administration was working so hard to button down. (The Cheney energy counsel, the use (or misuse) of the presidential email system, the internal memoranda on the interpretation of the WMD data etc...) This administration has been so secretive that I would be happy just having a better idea of what they actually did.

I'd like to see Cheney in the dock just because I can see nothing pissing him off more that being tried. My bet though is that at least Cheney, Gonzalez, Miers, and Rove get a pass.

[Okie Medicvet]

That's racist, dammit! Why would they have to be mexican immigrants? There are plenty of other illegal immigrants in this country...why do people like you always have to assume that they're all mexican?!?!?

Exactly, they have mooooooslliiiims crossing the border..it's true becaus some guy said he saw one of the prayer mats they left behind..:rolleyes:

[Claydon]

Illegal immigration is illegal. It is not, however, a crime punishable by death.

or is it!?

[tockit]

This is normal for this part of the Presidency. Clinton pardoned that ass fuck who skipped out on millions in taxes, this same guy was also a HUGE contributor to the DNC and Clinton's campaigns.

Claydon, I think you're referring to Marc Rich the fugitive who fled to Switzerland during his prosecution, charged with owing $48 million in back taxes to the US Government and 51 counts of tax fraud that Clinton pardoned.


Other notable Clinton pardons included:


Susan McDougal (investment partner in the failed business venture Whitewater with former President Clinton) while Clinton was still governor of Arkansas. McDougal mysteriously chose 22 months of prison time for contempt, rather than answer 3 questions about Clinton's involvement in Whitewater. Strange Huh???

Linda Evans and Susan Rosenberg, members of the Domestic Terrorist organization Weather Underground, which included Obama's pal Bill Ayers. Both were charged with the deaths of 2 police officers and a security guard during the botched robbery attempt of a Brinks armored truck. They were later indicted on domestic terrorism charges when police uncovered 730 pounds of explosives, and guns, intended to blow up the US Capitol. Probably just misunderstood!

Melvin Reynolds, Democratic Congressman convicted of 12 counts of Bank Fraud, and soliciting child pornography! Nice one Bill!

Roger Clinton, drug charges. Shocker!

Carlos Vignali, trafficking cocaine.

Almon Braswell, mail fraud and perjury.


The list is long and distinquished........


Many have called it Pardon-gate (even Leftist Jimmy Carter calls Clinton's pardons disgraceful)!

It's not surprising though. Clinton's whole presidency was riddled with scandals, ie, Travel-gate, Trooper-gate, and Monica-gate, et al!

And that's not even mentioning the "Clinton body count". Which has over 20 mysterious deaths and suicides of people like Vince Foster, who were at one time, close friends and/or associates with Clinton.

So, if you want to talk ethics, and the possible pardons requests that George Bush is getting, you'd better reexamine that last democratic jewel we had residing on Pennsylvania Avenue, before you pass premature judgment on W!


Slick Wille makes both Bush #43 and Cheney look like Choir boys!!!


But, I keep forgetting, he was a great president because the economy was good!!! Spare me.....

[dadaelus]

...And that's not even mentioning the "Clinton body count". Which has over 20 mysterious deaths and suicides of people like Vince Foster, who were at one time, close friends and/or associates with Clinton.

So, if you want to talk ethics, and the possible pardons requests that George Bush is getting, you'd better reexamine that last democratic jewel we had residing on Pennsylvania Avenue, before you pass premature judgment on W!

It's thoughts like these that helped me to give up watching TV and take up GMF...

[tockit]

It's thoughts like these that helped me to give up watching TV and take up GMF...
Whatever helps you sleep at night, slick......

BTW - I rarely ever watch television!

[Phil Theehor]

As much as I believe that the Bush/Cheney administration broke constitutional, U.S. statutory, and International law during their 8 years in office, I hope he does give the pre-emptive clemency/pardons so that this doesn't devolve into a the political circus from Hell. It would be ugly, unseemly, and very embarrassing -- not from the aspect of what would "come out," but from having us go through the process with all the self-righteous politicians.

Words from a wise man. What we all need is for the Dems to win gracefully here (and the GOP to lose gracefully, for that matter) and avoid expending energy on punishing the loser (or denying the victor his spoils).

What's done is done and frankly, irrelevant. All that matters is what lies ahead. And I have to say that I am impressed with Obama to this point. He wears an olive branch on a belt holster and appears to be a very quick draw, indeed.

It is a nice change from the last sixteen years in politics-- where the Dems fucking hated W and the GOP fucking hated Bubba. Perhaps Obama can help wash some of the poison out of Washington.

[Claydon]

Words from a wise man. What we all need is for the Dems to win gracefully here (and the GOP to lose gracefully, for that matter) and avoid expending energy on punishing the loser (or denying the victor his spoils).

What's done is done and frankly, irrelevant. All that matters is what lies ahead. And I have to say that I am impressed with Obama to this point. He wears an olive branch on a belt holster and appears to be a very quick draw, indeed.

It is a nice change from the last sixteen years in politics-- where the Dems fucking hated W and the GOP fucking hated Bubba. Perhaps Obama can help wash some of the poison out of Washington.


Why don't you just put on your tutu and dance for us you mary!

;)

[Phil Theehor]

Why don't you just put on your tutu and dance for us you mary!

;)

I didn't say that I agree with the man's policies. I just said that I like that he appears more interested in getting to work than in flinging feces at the vanquished.

[Claydon]

I didn't say that I agree with the man's policies. I just said that I like that he appears more interested in getting to work than in flinging feces at the vanquished.


He has reid and pelosi, give it time.

The Trifecta! I will give him credit for recently stating on Meet the Press that congress can just forget about add ons to bills for pet projects. Bold statement, lets see if he follows through with it.

[Phil Theehor]

He has reid and pelosi, give it time.

The Trifecta! I will give him credit for recently stating on Meet the Press that congress can just forget about add ons to bills for pet projects. Bold statement, lets see if he follows through with it.

I give no such credit to Pelosi. She is an insufferable cunt who has spent (and will spend) a lot of her time rubbing our noses in it.

[atoms]

I give no such credit to Pelosi. She is an insufferable cunt who has spent (and will spend) a lot of her time rubbing our noses in it.

Phil....as usual you are a wise man. I disagree with your politics but like your common sense. I wish Claydon could see that just because someone doesn't agree with him doesn't mean they're the devil in disguise.

And right on about Pelosi. She is one to make me not want to admit I'm a Democrat. Fortunately it really seems to all be talk. She really hasn't been tough (bitchy) in her actions....just ineffective.

[Claydon]

Phil....as usual you are a wise man. I disagree with your politics but like your common sense. I wish Claydon could see that just because someone doesn't agree with him doesn't mean they're the devil in disguise.

And right on about Pelosi. She is one to make me not want to admit I'm a Democrat. Fortunately it really seems to all be talk. She really hasn't been tough (bitchy) in her actions....just ineffective.

wtf are you talking about.

i disagree with sink all the time and he is my fat e-buddy.

[Phil Theehor]

wtf are you talking about.

i disagree with sink all the time and he is my fat e-buddy.

He refers to the President-elect, boss, not me.

[BIG PIZZLE]

This seems fair, they did shoot a guy in the back after all.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090119/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_pardons

Bush commutes sentences of former US border agents
WASHINGTON – In his final acts of clemency, President George W. Bush on Monday commuted the prison sentences of two former U.S. Border Patrol agents whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited fierce debate about illegal immigration.
Bush's decision to commute the sentences of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, who tried to cover up the shooting, was welcomed by both Republican and Democratic members of Congress. They had long argued that the agents were merely doing their jobs, defending the American border against criminals. They also maintained that the more than 10-year prison sentences the pair was given were too harsh.
Rancor over their convictions, sentencing and firings has simmered ever since the shooting occurred in 2005.
Ramos and Compean became a rallying point among conservatives and on talk shows where their supporters called them heroes. Nearly the entire bipartisan congressional delegation from Texas and other lawmakers from both sides of the political aisle pleaded with Bush to grant them clemency.
Bush didn't pardon the men for their crimes, but decided instead to commute their prison sentences because he believed they were excessive and that they had already suffered the loss of their jobs, freedom and reputations, a senior administration official said.
The action by the president, who believes the border agents received fair trials and that the verdicts were just, does not diminish the seriousness of their crimes, the official said.
Compean and Ramos, who have served about two years of their sentences, are expected to be released from prison within the next two months.
They were convicted of shooting admitted drug smuggler Osvaldo Aldrete Davila in the buttocks as he fled across the Rio Grande, away from an abandoned van load of marijuana. The border agents argued during their trials that they believed the smuggler was armed and that they shot him in self defense. The prosecutor in the case said there was no evidence linking the smuggler to the van of marijuana. The prosecutor also said the border agents didn't report the shooting and tampered with evidence by picking up several spent shell casings.
The agents were fired after their convictions on several charges, including assault with a dangerous weapon and with serious bodily injury, violation of civil rights and obstruction of justice. All their convictions, except obstruction of justice, were upheld on appeal.
With the new acts of clemency, Bush has granted a total of 189 pardons and 11 commutations.
That's fewer than half as many as Presidents Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan issued during their two-term tenures. Bush technically has until noon on Tuesday when President-elect Barack Obama is sworn into office to exercise his executive pardon authority, but presidential advisers said no more were forthcoming.
The president had made most of his pardon decisions on low-profile cases, but his batch in December created controversy.
Isaac Robert Toussie of Brooklyn, N.Y, convicted of making false statements to the Department of Housing and Urban Development and of mail fraud, was among 19 people Bush pardoned just before Christmas. But after learning in news reports that Toussie's father had donated tens of thousands of dollars to the Republican Party a few months ago, as well as other information, the president reversed his decision on Toussie's case.
The White House said the decision to revoke the pardon — a step unheard of in recent memory — was based on information about the extent and nature of Toussie's prior criminal offenses, and that neither the White House counsel's office nor the president had been aware of a political contribution by Toussie's father and wanted to avoid creating an appearance of impropriety.
In an earlier high-profile official act of forgiveness, Bush saved Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, from serving prison time in the case of the 2003 leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity. Libby was convicted of perjury and obstructing justice. Bush could still grant him a full pardon, although Libby has not applied for one.
Bush's batches of pardons, however, have never included any well-known convicts like junk bond dealer Michael Milken, who sought a pardon on securities fraud charges, or two politicians convicted of public corruption — former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-Calif., and four-term Democratic Louisiana Gov. Edwin W. Edwards — who wanted Bush to shorten their prison terms.
Clinton issued a total of 457 in eight years in office. Bush's father, George H. W. Bush, issued 77 in four years. Reagan issued 406 in eight years, and President Carter issued 563 in four years. Since World War II, the largest number of pardons and commutations — 2,031 — came from President Truman, who served 82 days short of eight years.

[Claydon]

I am glad their sentences were commuted.

/thread