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Da Raider
12-03-2008, 05:32 PM
This Friday, Dec. 5, is the 75th anniversary of Repeal Day, the day America repealed its disastrous alcohol prohibition.
Prohibition was the pièce de résistance of the early 20th-century progressives' grand social engineering agenda. It failed, of course. Miserably.
It did reduce overall consumption of alcohol in the U.S., but that reduction came largely among those who consumed alcohol responsibly. The actual harm caused by alcohol abuse was made worse, thanks to the economics of prohibitions.
Black market alcohol was of dubious origin, unregulated by market forces. The price premium that attaches to banned substances made the alcohol that made it to consumers more potent and more dangerous. And, of course, organized crime rose and flourished thanks to the new market created by the 18th Amendment and the Volstead Act.
So hospitalizations related to alcohol soared. And so did violent crime. Corruption flourished, as law enforcement officials in charge of enforcing prohibition went on the take, from beat cops all the way up to the office of the United States Attorney General. Even the U.S. Senate had a secret, illegal stash of booze for its members and their staffs.
In 1924, the great social critic H.L. Mencken wrote of prohibition:
Five years of Prohibition have had, at least, this one benign effect: they have completely disposed of all the favourite arguments of the Prohibitionists. None of the great boons and usufructs that were to follow the passage of the Eighteenth Amendment has come to pass. There is not less drunkenness in the Republic, but more. There is not less crime, but more. There is not less insanity, but more. The cost of government is not smaller, but vastly greater. Respect for law has not increased, but diminished.
A bill in Congress (http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecrypt/0908/Congress_to_celebrate_legal_booze_seriously.html?s howall) celebrating the anniversary of Repeal Day echoes Mencken's sentiment. It notes that "throughout American history, alcohol has been consumed by its citizens"; that prohibition resulted in "abuses" and the "irresponsible overconsumption of alcohol"; and that the ban on "'intoxicating liquors' in the United States, resulted in a dramatic increase in illegal activity, including unsafe black market alcohol production, organized crime, and noncompliance with alcohol laws..."
But there's one positive thing we can say alcohol prohibition: At least it was constitutional. The prohibitionists built support for their cause by demonizing alcohol from state to state, winning over local legislators one at a time. When they'd built a sufficient national movement, they started the momentum for a constitutional amendment. Congress didn't pass a blanket federal law, Constitution be damned. They understood that the federal government hasn't the authority to issue a national ban on booze, so they moved to enact the ban properly.
When America repealed prohibition, we repealed it with a constitutional amendment making explicit that the power to regulate alcohol is reserved for the states. Even today, when Congress wants to pass federal alcohol laws (such as the federal drinking age, or the federal minimum blood-alcohol standard for drunk driving), it can't simply dictate policy to the states. Instead, it ties the laws to federal highway funding, a blackmail that while distasteful, at least carries the pretense of adherence to the Constitution.
Contrast that to drug prohibition, where Congress (and the Supreme Court, when it upheld it) made no attempt to comply with the Constitution in passing the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 (CSA), the law that gave us the modern drug war.
There's no question that drug prohibition has been every bit the failure alcohol prohibition was. Nearly 40 years after the CSA passed, we have 400,000 people in prison for nonviolent drug crimes; a domestic police force that often looks and acts like an occupying military force; nearly a trillion dollars spent on enforcement, both here and through aggressive interdiction efforts overseas; and urban areas that can resemble war zones. Yet illicit drugs like cocaine and marijuana are as cheap and abundant as they were in 1970. The street price of both drugs has actually dropped—dramatically—since the government began keeping track in the early 1980s.
The main difference between the two prohibitions is that one was enacted lawfully, and once it became clear that it had failed, we repealed it (and government revenues soared with new alcohol taxes). As the drug war has failed, the government merely claims more powers to fight it more aggressively.
Eliot Ness and his colleagues raided supply lines, manufacturing hubs, and warehouses, but alcohol consumption was still legal. You didn't have armed-to-the-teeth cops breaking down the doors of private homes the way they do now for people suspected of consensual drug crimes. During prohibition, doctors could prescribe alcohol as medication. Today, federal SWAT teams storm medical marijuana clinics and terrorize their patients, thanks to the Supreme Court's 2005 decision in Gonzales v. Raich, which allowed the federal government to prevent a dying woman from possessing medical marijuana, solely for her own use, to treat the symptoms of her illnesses, even though the voters of California had determined that she should be left alone.
When he first visited the United States in 1921, Albert Einstein wrote of America's ban on booze: "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law... For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."
That's as true today as it was then.

riseabove!
12-03-2008, 09:53 PM
This is why bud is going to be decriminalized in our US of A in the next decade. This, and the fact that it's a billion dollar industry.

Archangel
12-10-2008, 05:50 AM
Ah, to live in a free country, where one can drink booze in public places, own small quantities of herb, drive past the same spot 20 times in a row, look at topless women in public, say "have a blessed Christmas", and fuck taxed and medically checked hookers whenever one feels like it.

Morfin
12-10-2008, 11:31 AM
Ah, to live in a free country, where one can drink booze in public places, own small quantities of herb, drive past the same spot 20 times in a row, look at topless women in public, say "have a blessed Christmas", and fuck taxed and medically checked hookers whenever one feels like it.

WTF?

Limp
12-10-2008, 11:38 AM
WTF?
I believe he is talking about anti-cruising laws.

Archangel
12-10-2008, 12:19 PM
Indeed. Anti-cruising and anti-loitering laws must be the most insane shit people have come up with since... well, since prohibition, actually. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't anti-loitering laws supposed to keep, say, gang members from standing on the corner and sellung drugs? So what use are they if the stuff they are supposed to prevent happens in areas where cops usually don't go much?

Gary_Busey
12-10-2008, 12:23 PM
I like how they try to enforce anti-cruising laws on the strip in Myrtle Beach. It doesn't change anything, people are going to do it no matter what.

Archangel
12-10-2008, 12:24 PM
I like how they try to enforce anti-cruising laws on the strip in Myrtle Beach. It doesn't change anything, people are going to do it no matter what.

When he first visited the United States in 1921, Albert Einstein wrote of America's ban on booze: "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the prohibition law... For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced."

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:26 PM
in hollywood there are no cruising laws not because of criminal issues but more to do with traffic congestion.

Gary_Busey
12-10-2008, 12:26 PM
Im likez, totaly smarters then Einstein!

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:27 PM
interesting you quote einstein there.... i prefer his quote about atheisim, words to effect of "I can appreciate the beauty of the garden without looking for fairies at the bottom of it"

Archangel
12-10-2008, 12:28 PM
in hollywood there are no cruising laws not because of criminal issues but more to do with traffic congestion.

Yeah, but what if I want to go somewhere and am circling the block, looking for a fucking parking space nearby? I know that that's easier in America than in our more cramped cities, but still.

Gary_Busey
12-10-2008, 12:30 PM
I can quote Einstein too.

"I've got to take a huge mc2"

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:30 PM
Yeah, but what if I want to go somewhere and am circling the block, looking for a fucking parking space nearby? I know that that's easier in America than in our more cramped cities, but still.

look, if you look like john q tourist, and YOU would especially in whatever oldsmobuick rental they can tell whats up. If you look like Raider, and are cruising in a tricked out chevy and you are smoking weed, chances are you are not looking for a parking spot.

Archangel
12-10-2008, 12:31 PM
interesting you quote einstein there.... i prefer his quote about atheisim, words to effect of "I can appreciate the beauty of the garden without looking for fairies at the bottom of it"

A) That quote is by Douglas Adams.

B) I didn't quote it, the article in Raider's original post did.

C) The atheism thread is that way.

D) Seriously, dude, wtf.

Gary_Busey
12-10-2008, 12:31 PM
Yeah, but what if I want to go somewhere and am circling the block, looking for a fucking parking space nearby? I know that that's easier in America than in our more cramped cities, but still.
Depends where you are. I'm willing to bet that the majority of places, it wouldn't be a problem. I've never come across that law myself except for congested tourist spots, like Myrtle Beach.

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:32 PM
A) That quote is by Douglas Adams.

B) The atheism thread is that way.

C) Seriously, dude, wtf.

THAT WAS ADAMS?!

Get the fuck outa here!


actually, you are probably right, it drips with a bit of sarcasm. what am i confusing it with

Limp
12-10-2008, 12:33 PM
what am i confusing it with
Hopefully it's something we care about but by reading your previous posts... I doubt it.

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:34 PM
ah, here is the quote...

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

Archangel
12-10-2008, 12:36 PM
ah, here is the quote...

The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

Stop trying to stir shit up, I fail to see what your insistence on bringing atheism into this thread has to do with probition or other stupid laws.

Gary_Busey
12-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Maybe we should rename the thread "Post Einstein Quotes You Found With Google"?

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Stop trying to stir shit up, I fail to see what your insistence on bringing atheism into this thread has to do with probition or other stupid laws.

It all stems from the belief that we can regulate people into a moral and righteous christian lifestyle. The temperance movement began during the gilded age of the US basically post Civil War by the women who were devout chritians, seventh day adventists etc. It has since morphed into a 50 billion a year disaster.

WET HOT MESS
12-10-2008, 12:40 PM
Christianity isn't the only religion that frowns on alcohol consumption.

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:42 PM
Christianity isn't the only religion that frowns on alcohol consumption.

true, but christianity is the dominate religion of the US.

and this is not about alcohol, this is about drugs that are not alcohol.

Gary_Busey
12-10-2008, 12:43 PM
"And God said unto them, "Let ye not pass within thine sameth spoteth twiceth withineth thine moment thoust shadow doubles in its size..eth"" Ephesians 13:37

WET HOT MESS
12-10-2008, 12:43 PM
I feel like I'm talking to tickle me elmo.

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:45 PM
I feel like I'm talking to tickle me elmo.

tickle me and see what happens

Archangel
12-10-2008, 12:46 PM
Maybe we should rename the thread "Post Einstein Quotes You Found With Google"?
Hey now.
B) I didn't quote it, the article in Raider's original post did.Second to last sentence, as a matter of fact.
"And God said unto them, "Let ye not pass within thine sameth spoteth twiceth withineth thine moment thoust shadow doubles in its size..eth"" Ephesians 13:37
Wow, Paul WAS ahead of his time.

Claydon
12-10-2008, 12:56 PM
Matthew>Paul