PDA

View Full Version : "Credit Crisis II" feared if U.S. automakers fail


freegood
12-12-2008, 03:10 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-autos/idUKTRE4B940420081210?sp=true

By Kevin Drawbaugh - Analysis

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Dire warnings of lost jobs and fading U.S. industrial might are driving the Detroit bailout bandwagon, but there's a little-noticed passenger quaking in the backseat -- the credit markets.

A bankruptcy or failure of General Motors Corp, Ford Motor Co or Chrysler LLC would threaten billions of dollars of financial instruments, with untold consequences, say credit market analysts and some pro-bailout lawmakers.

"A collapsed U.S. auto industry would lead to defaults on over $1 trillion in corporate bonds, credit default swaps and other financial instruments," Michigan Democratic Sen. Carl Levin said in a statement provided to Reuters.

"Major additional damage to U.S. financial institution balance sheets would result, and another grenade would be tossed into our credit markets," Levin said.

The threat is so serious that "Credit Crisis Part II" looms if the government doesn't come to the aid of GM and Ford, said J.P. Morgan analyst Eric Selle, author of a research report that pro-bailout Democrats like Levin are citing.

Some Republicans remain skeptical and continue to oppose a bailout, even as the White House and Democratic negotiators are trying to hammer out a loan plan valued at about $15 billion.

The financial aspect of the bailout debate is important because it calls into question the administration's refusal to use the $700 billion bank bailout fund to help Detroit. Known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, the fund is meant to help the financial sector only, not manufacturers, the administration has insisted for weeks.

In response, Democrats are trying to portray the automotive sector's problems as posing a systemic financial risk, and therefore suitable for TARP funds.

CARS AND THE CREDIT CRISIS

A bankruptcy of Ford, GM or Chrysler "would greatly exacerbate the credit crisis," Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Barney Frank said last week at a hearing on the issue.

On Thursday, Democratic leaders wrote to the White House urging usage of the TARP on the grounds that "the failure of the Big 3 would have a major direct and negative impact on the financial sector, not just on the economy as a whole."

Part of the problem, analysts say, is the vast amount of debt issued over the years by GM, Ford and their related financing companies, GMAC and Ford Motor Credit.

For instance, 10 percent of the junk bond market is tied to GM, Ford and the financing companies, Selle said.

Bond markets have seen trouble coming from Detroit for years and have priced in considerable risk already, said Mark Oline, managing director at credit rating group Fitch Ratings.

"Some of the debt is trading at 20 or 30 cents on the dollar. Certainly there's a high probability of default factored into those prices," he said.

That built-in risk reassures some analysts that bond markets could absorb a Big Three failure.

But another layer of risk resides in the $250 billion of credit default swaps (CDS) written on Ford, GM, Ford Motor Credit and GMAC, according to data from the Depository Trust and Clearing Corp, a securities transactions clearinghouse.

One senior Wall Street credit analyst said: "An outright failure of the automakers would be problematic for credit markets, given the feedback on the regional real economy, as well as workout processes from CDS settlements."

With a recession under way, analysts say, the biggest danger may be to auto parts suppliers, businesses around auto plants like restaurants and retailers, and state and local governments that depend on taxes from the auto sector.

"A bankruptcy would cause a domino effect and result in bankruptcies throughout the industry ... and further defaults throughout the supply chain," Oline said. "It's uncertain as to exactly what the extent of that chain of events would be."

(Additional reporting by Walden Siew in New York and John Crawley in Washington; Editing by Steve Orlofsky)

BIG PIZZLE
12-12-2008, 03:17 PM
I'm actually more concerned with consumer credit. Credit card debt is out of control. Everyone is either going to file BK or get raped by collection agencies.

Phil Theehor
12-12-2008, 03:17 PM
Fuck

Morfin
12-12-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm sick of all this crap about "it's too big to fail. Major financial collapse." Fuck this. No bail-out; no loans. If everyone wants to play a big game of chicken, fine. Let 'em fail and see who later gets to say "I told you so."

freegood
12-14-2008, 03:28 PM
tl:dr version
Credit default swaps will fuck every American in the ass when everything is said and done.

Debo
12-14-2008, 03:40 PM
tl:dr version
Credit default swaps will fuck every American in the ass when everything is said and done.

Why? If CDS is so bad, why is it even legal?

Everyone was all worked up about LEH CDS and that worked itself out.

Claydon
12-14-2008, 03:43 PM
I'm actually more concerned with consumer credit. Credit card debt is out of control. Everyone is either going to file BK or get raped by collection agencies.

Odd, i just read that consumer debt actually contracted for the first time in the 50 some odd years it has been tracked. Granted it was a small contraction...something like 0.8%.

freegood
12-14-2008, 03:49 PM
It worked itself out with massive Government bailouts and loans. Do you really think we would've bailed out AIG if it weren't sitting on a trillion dollars worth of CDS? Would Bear Stearns have received a generous junk for treasuries guarantee?

CDS are bad because some are being held without being traded so it's real value is hard to gauge. The sheer paper value of them being floated around in the market (40-70 trillion) is totally unrealistic and were formerly guaranteed by an abused credit ratings system and monoline insurers. Yeah, eventually if/when they are traded to reflect value market forces could kick in, but I'm not too optimistic on the wind down. Judging from Fed and Treasury policies, they don't feel that way either.

If you ask me, issuing them with a low margin of guaranteed assets should be illegal and we wouldn't be where we are today if that happened.

Mustard
12-14-2008, 04:33 PM
Credit default swaps, when used proper, are a really great thing for middle and upper level managers to get full nights of sleep. When used improperly, like when the people in charge start figuring out how to get away with the whole 'fraud' aspect of using CDSs, well thats not such a good thing, and can lead to the guarantor of the CDS being royally butt fucked.

Debo
12-14-2008, 05:12 PM
It worked itself out with massive Government bailouts and loans. Do you really think we would've bailed out AIG if it weren't sitting on a trillion dollars worth of CDS? Would Bear Stearns have received a generous junk for treasuries guarantee?

CDS are bad because some are being held without being traded so it's real value is hard to gauge. The sheer paper value of them being floated around in the market (40-70 trillion) is totally unrealistic and were formerly guaranteed by an abused credit ratings system and monoline insurers. Yeah, eventually if/when they are traded to reflect value market forces could kick in, but I'm not too optimistic on the wind down. Judging from Fed and Treasury policies, they don't feel that way either.

If you ask me, issuing them with a low margin of guaranteed assets should be illegal and we wouldn't be where we are today if that happened.

Where is the risk in writing CDS these days? If we aren't going to let anyone default on their debt, why not just write as many CDS contracts as you possibly can? It is free money.

mongo
12-14-2008, 05:25 PM
i like free money! fire up the money press!

Morfin
12-14-2008, 06:08 PM
The problem with credit default swaps is not their use or structure. If properly used, they are a good vehicle to lay-off risk.

HOWEVER, the underlying foundation of the CDSs, as with anything is the underwriting on the original loans and proper (i.e., accurate and unbiased) rating by the ratings companies. It was the failure of the underwriting on the original loans to consider the possibility that the economy would start crashing or would take a downturn resulting in higher foreclosures. This meant that the "paper" on the secondary, securitizing, market was not as good as people originally believed.

Second, the ratings companies failed to properly rate the securities, leading investors -- traders -- to have a false sense of security in what they were buying into.

To the extent that consumer debt has been securitized, then the concern has to be whether there was proper underwriting and ratings on it as well.