My rant about Obama.

[Claydon]

Ok folks, so the campaign is long since over (thankfully), the next president will be sworn into office in about 9 hours and I felt it was time to post something reasonably intelligent, perhaps long winded, and just clear the air about my feelings with regards to the soon to be President Barack Obama.

Several of you believe that I am a partisan wonk, Bush apologist, blind supporter of the Republican party, facist, and for at least one worthless member a racist. I assure you nothing could be further from the truth! Although I will certainly never deny the very real fact that I am indeed right of center with regards to politics (I believe in the 2nd Ammendment AND that drugs/prostitution should be legal...for example), a Republican, a supporter of the US military operations in the middle east, despite all of this I never actually voted for Bush Jr. I wrote in McCain for the 2000 election and abstained from voting for the President in 2004. Be that as it may, I disagreed with Bush on MANY things such as but not limited to, his views on abortion, and stem cell research just to name a few. All of you are well aware of my disapproval of Obama becoming our next President, however, unlike many of you liberal wonks on here, I am and will be a loyal oppositionist, unlike many of you fools, I will see Obama as the President, a person in control of the executive branch of my government and because of this I will pay him the due respect. As I did with Clinton in the 90s, whom I detested with a passion, I was honored to see him speak in 1997; and why is this? Because he was the President, and unlike the media, I would and will refer to him as Mr. President and not merely by his last name.

Why would I want Obama to fail? Actually I do not, I truly hope he succeeds and makes our (excluding EU fags and the upstanding british members) country what it has been for well over a century. A beacon of prosperity, political freedom, the very definition of pragmatism, and proof positive that the United States is ever changing, ever growing, and on the cutting edge. Mr. Obama is proof positive that the United States is a fair country (for the most part), and that the child of an immigrant can achieve something truly great. Some on this forum feel the US is the very textbook definition of racism, and unfair treatment (tater don't bother this thread with your bullshit), these 'people' clearly have no concept how the rest of the world really functions. If you all want to see racism in action, look to the west. The most racist nations/people on the earth are the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese....well to be honest the Asian people in general. Be that as it may, it is truly, only in America that people who were once considered property, and then kept separated under dubious laws set out in the late 19th century can aspire, and achieve the highest political office of the land.

However, at the same time a 'black' man achieving the office of the President simply is not that big of a deal to me. Look, I am in no way suggesting that Obama being the first 'black' man to be President is not a big deal. As a US history major, I must admit that I relish this moment in history and furthermore, I hope it represents the true ending of the Civil War. However, understand that from my perspective it just is not a big deal. I was born and raised in Los Angeles, a metropolitan area of 10 million people. I grew up in the 1980s when the city of Los Angeles had a 'black' man for mayor (Tom Bradely), I had a 'black' man for a high school principal, I was arrested by a 'black' police officer in my 20s, and the list goes on. For me, a 'black' person in a position of authority is truly not a big deal, or anything other than normal. I know the same cannot be said for backwater USA and parts of the deep south. So Obama having more melanin in his skin just does not give me an erection like it does the media and some of you.

So the world has decoupled from the United States many have claimed, at a time when the United States is on the decline as the world economic and military power, and furthermore we simply just do not influence the world all that much. Well, that is a complete farce, the world watched this election VERY closely, and the world has taken a massive dive economically the moment the US economy started to nose dive. Decoupled? It is just a whimsical word put out by those who need to sell words for a living. At this moment and time and at least for the foreseeable future, the United States of America is the economic, political, military, cultural center of the world. As with Clinton, as I will be with Obama, as I was with Bush Jr. I am proud that these men represent this country on the world stage. I was proud to call George W. Bush President, and I am equally proud to call Mr. Barack H. Obama Mr. President.

God bless the Presidency, and may God continue to bless the United States of America.

[Skybase]

You want a medal now?

[mongo]

lock.ban.delete.forever.

[Kerjack]

rep, neg, neg

[Claydon]

i was hoping to inspire non gay, non partisan discussion...


I HAVE FAILED!

[Hodge]

...perhaps long winded...
Yup.

[Skybase]

i was hoping to inspire non gay, non partisan discussion...


I HAVE FAILED!

However it wasn't epic.

I will say it was a good try however. Very well written and whatever one's stance it should be commended. However most likely You'll just want to get that lube ready.

[Claydon]

However most likely You'll just want to get that lube ready.

I picked up the 1 liter bottle of warming KY from walmart tonight. On sale for $3.95.





be gentle folks

[Skybase]

I picked up the 1 liter bottle of warming KY from walmart tonight. On sale for $3.95.





be gentle folks


Shit, now you've got my attention.

[Claydon]

Shit, now you've got my attention.

i had a coupon

[nobody]

Well-spoken post. You can pretty much count on vitriol and rancor being heaped upon you for making a "virtually non-partisan" post. I will grant that I am pretty new and so am unaware of the history of postings, which will almost certainly affect the replies that you get, but THIS post was pretty non-biased and "fair".

Since unlike the MSM, you didn't glorify the President elect, irrespective of nearly anything but hatred of the current president, you (and now me I'd wager) will be villified and told by the "bastions of free speach" to STFU and "go away". It will, no doubt, "wound me to the quick".

[Skybase]

Well-spoken post. You can pretty much count on vitriol and rancor being heaped upon you for making a "virtually non-partisan" post. I will grant that I am pretty new and so am unaware of the history of postings, which will almost certainly affect the replies that you get, but THIS post was pretty non-biased and "fair".

Since unlike the MSM, you didn't glorify the President elect, irrespective of nearly anything but hatred of the current president, you (and now me I'd wager) will be villified and told by the "bastions of free speach" to STFU and "go away". It will, no doubt, "wound me to the quick".

Did you say something important? I couldn't stop staring at the tits.

[Claydon]

Did you say something important? I couldn't stop staring at the tits.

oddly enough, i had the same reaction.

[}{arlequin]

a rant, by definition i think, cannot exist w/o a partisan pov.

[Claydon]

a rant, by definition i think, cannot exist w/o a partisan pov.

christ...i drank 2 bottles of wine tonight...and you are busting my balls over the choice of the word rant!


turn in your porsche! :D

[}{arlequin]

i'm trying to point out that a rant comes out better (juicier) when you actually feel one way. or the other.


my car needs a lot of work before the season begins. i have about a month and i'm feeling lazy. not a good combo for getting shit done.

[nobody]

Did you say something important? I couldn't stop staring at the tits.

... nothing nearly as interesting as the pic. :p

[Will-Kill]

http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Race_Card.jpg
http://doesitallmatter.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/race-card-06.jpg
http://sethandray.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/racecard1.jpg

Someone had to do it...Take your Pick.

Either way, New President, Same Problems.

[heelsguy]

change is healthy...I sincerely hope 2 things happen:

1). He is the same person in office as he has professed to be while running
2). The media approach his presidency as the previous administration

[Pax Britannia]

Technically Obama isnt the first African-American President. He's the first mixed race President.

I dont know why people keep ignoring that fact.

[Oggie]

HOF material.

[Archangel]

Technically Obama isnt the first African-American President. He's the first mixed race President.

I dont know why people keep ignoring that fact.

For the same reason why even though Jason Kidd and Lisa Bonet are lighter skinned than all of Spain, Greece, and Italy, they're considered "black", as well. The politics of race have never made sense, nor are they likely to do so anytime soon.

[heelsguy]

i like the fact that if and when obama becomes "the best president evar" us whiteys can say "well, he IS 1/2 white!!!"

[redsox39]

well, he is!

[nuclearjew]

Technically Obama isnt the first African-American President. He's the first mixed race President.

I dont know why people keep ignoring that fact.
African Americans or Black Americans are citizens or residents of the United States who have origins in any of the black populations of Africa. In the United States, the term is generally used for Americans with at least partial Sub-Saharan African ancestry. Most African Americans are the direct descendants of captive Africans who survived the slavery era within the boundaries of the present United States, although some are—or are descended from—voluntary immigrants from African, Caribbean, Central American or South American nations.
Barack Obama was born at the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Ann Dunham, a white American from Wichita, Kansas of English and Irish descent. Obama's father was Barack Obama, Sr., a Luo from Nyang’oma Kogelo, Nyanza Province, Kenya. His parents met in 1960 while attending the University of Hawaii at Mānoa, where his father was a foreign student.

[Morfin]

As the Jew said, Obama's father is African; Obama's mother is American.

How can he not be African-American?

[Stax]

http://www.236.com/video/2009/watch_236_ultimate_george_bush_11062.php

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

i was hoping to inspire non gay, non partisan discussion...




Not from this bunch you won't.

[brentblack]

I did not vote for BO but the unreasonable expectations created by the media/celebrity frenzy will be hard to overcome. He's the new pop star. He was on the cover of Time Magazine 13 times last year!

All the Bush & Co. haters (the ones that personally attack him not the policy critics) need to redirect their energy into something positive for this country but I bet they will just rehash all their problems with Bush every time someone has anything critical to say about BO or his administration. They expect BO to be the Messiah, but he is just going to be like every other POTUS.

[Will-Kill]

It's not what race he is but the color of his skin.

MLK would be dissapointed.

[vasili denisov]

All of you are well aware of my disapproval of Obama becoming our next President, however, unlike many of you liberal wonks on here, I am and will be a loyal oppositionist, unlike many of you fools, I will see Obama as the President, a person in control of the executive branch of my government and because of this I will pay him the due respect.
Obama, as would any legitimately elected president, heads the state as well as the government, so you pay him due respect as you did to presidents you've respected and despised; you'll criticize him in areas with which you have differences. In effect, you'll treat him as you would any other president. You will treat him as you would any other president.

Do you want a cookie for this?

I am indeed right of center with regards to politics (I believe in the 2nd Ammendment AND that drugs/prostitution should be legal...for example)
That you cite these things as representative of conservatism is a little unusual. They're aspects of libertarianism (though even the libertarian candidate Bob Barr had qualms about legalizing even some drugs currently illegal), which argues for a smaller government, including in our personal lives, though it shares little with Burkean ideals, and Burke would most likely be hostile to it.

[heelsguy]

I did not vote for BO but the unreasonable expectations created by the media/celebrity frenzy will be hard to overcome. He's the new pop star. He was on the cover of Time Magazine 13 times last year!

All the Bush & Co. haters (the ones that personally attack him not the policy critics) need to redirect their energy into something positive for this country but I bet they will just rehash all their problems with Bush every time someone has anything critical to say about BO or his administration. They expect BO to be the Messiah, but he is just going to be like every other POTUS.


they already ARE doing that. they are basically stopping the car, backing up, getting of the car and kicking bush even though he is now in the past. it is familar and safe to do that. forgetting abour Bush and just being FOR someone is I guess hard for them to transition to

[brentblack]

I personally would find it far more comforting if the electorate were a little more measured in their adoration for Obama by making him earn his praise.

After today the party is over and reality sets in. He's got one hell of a mess to deal with.

[brentblack]

more than anything I hope BO will inspire a new sense of responsibility and accountability in this country

[Claydon]

Obama, as would any legitimately elected president, heads the state as well as the government, so you pay him due respect as you did to presidents you've respected and despised; you'll criticize him in areas with which you have differences. In effect, you'll treat him as you would any other president. You will treat him as you would any other president.

Do you want a cookie for this?

Considering how the majority of members here, and people have said "not my president" or how the media even refused to call him anything other than Bush or Mr. Bush, yes I do want a fucking cookie for being non partisan.

That you cite these things as representative of conservatism is a little unusual. They're aspects of libertarianism (though even the libertarian candidate Bob Barr had qualms about legalizing even some drugs currently illegal), which argues for a smaller government, including in our personal lives, though it shares little with Burkean ideals, and Burke would most likely be hostile to it.

Libertarian is merely the extreme right on the left/right scale

[Archetype]

Libertarian is merely the extreme right on the left/right scale
No it's not.

[Void]

Libertarian is merely the extreme right on the left/right scaleI've heard it been said this way: libertarians are conservatives who wanna smoke weed and get laid.

[Da Raider]

Libertarian is merely the extreme right on the left/right scale

Wrong.

[Archetype]

Conservatism concerns itself with conservation of status quo. Liberalism concerns itself with individual civil liberties. Libertarianism concerns itself with the liberation of all individuals. Specific kinds of conservatism relate to specific kinds of libertarianism, but if you're gonna broad stroke it, libertarian is extreme left, right before anarchism; sometimes mixed with.

[Morfin]

Libertarian is merely the extreme right on the left/right scale

How can you say this? Libertarians are for legalizing drugs. Libertarians may be extreme, but it is not on the left/right axis.

[Da Raider]

Conservatism concerns itself with conservation of status quo. Liberalism concerns itself with individual civil liberties. Libertarianism concerns itself with the liberation of all individuals. Specific kinds of conservatism relate to specific kinds of libertarianism, but if you're gonna broad stroke it, libertarian is extreme left, right before anarchism; sometimes mixed with.

i agree up until you went broad stroke. Think of it like this;

four sided object. top side is libertarian, right side is conservative, left side is liberal, lower side is statist (big gov) and the center is, well, centrist.

[Phil Theehor]

You folks are partially right. Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal-- live and let live with a balanced budget, if you will.

They say it better on the official site (lp.org) :

Our vision is for a world in which all individuals can freely exercise the natural right of sole dominion over their own lives, liberty and property.

Link (http://www.lp.org/issues) to where they stand on issues of the day.

[taters]

Grr. I hate teh Reggin President and cant wait for him to fuck up...even if he does great Ill give credit to Bush.

Also, I dont give a shit that some reggin won the presidency. It was all affirmative action anyway. Everyone knows reggins, even half ones arent otherwise qualified for anything!


Now all we need is a follow up by goat and We'll have a standard topper to a claydon thread.

Dont worry Claydon, this exact same essential thread by similar folks (coincidentally, saying essentially the EXACT SAME THING) has also been posted over on the st0rmfr0nt, wightnationalist forum and V@ngaurd WP forums.

Dont worry, I wont claim that Claydon is on them all, but I will say the similarity of them reflects greatly on what kind of people think what, no matter how subtle they term it (and oddly enough, those sites respective versions of this thread are equally subtle and seemingly tactful).

Also, fuck you claydon, Ill go where I want.

Libertarians are fiscally conservative and socially liberal-- live and let live with a balanced budget, if you will.

Theoretically, but how many of the self proclaimed 'libertarians' actually live by that philosophy? (By self proclaimed I mean Sean Hannity, on and off Rush Limbaugh, Bill O Reilly).

Libertarianism is merely a venting concept for disgruntled republicans to claim they are as a complaint against spending politics within their own party. But when Abortion, Gay Rights, Equal opportunity and Unionization comes up, 'live and let live' is forgotten.

[Da Raider]

Libertarianism is merely a venting concept for disgruntled republicans to claim they are as a complaint against spending politics within their own party. But when Abortion, Gay Rights, Equal opportunity and Unionization comes up, 'live and let live' is forgotten.

wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.

[Claydon]

Ah, thanks taters, for injecting your bullshit once again.

If his post does not finally prove that he is nothing more than a forum troll, then I do not know what else will.

You may euthanize yourself now taters.

[Claydon]

oh and what the fuck is 'reggin'?

[taters]

wrong. Completely and utterly wrong.

In concept, you are right, but I was speaking as in 'practice', mainly by so-called self proclaimed libertarians, Ron Paul (less than others, but look in his past), Bill O reilly, Sean Hannity, Most big NRA supporters etc).

oh and what the fuck is 'reggin'?


Way to double post in your own thread, troll. Also, keep up with the threads you post in, because the 'reggin' thing has already been gone over.

[Archetype]

Now all we need is a follow up by goat and We'll have a standard topper to a claydon thread.

Dont worry Claydon, this exact same essential thread by similar folks (coincidentally, saying essentially the EXACT SAME THING) has also been posted over on the st0rmfr0nt, wightnationalist forum and V@ngaurd WP forums.

Dont worry, I wont claim that Claydon is on them all, but I will say the similarity of them reflects greatly on what kind of people think what, no matter how subtle they term it (and oddly enough, those sites respective versions of this thread are equally subtle and seemingly tactful).

Also, fuck you claydon, Ill go where I want.

Did you even read the post? I don't think so.

i agree up until you went broad stroke. Think of it like this;

four sided object. top side is libertarian, right side is conservative, left side is liberal, lower side is statist (big gov) and the center is, well, centrist.

Here's what I don't understand: why are conservatism and liberalism deemed opposites so often? Literally, the words mean no such thing, frankly, they could be the same if the status quo is founded on civil and economic liberty. The Republican and the PCs of Canada both have similar policies, both of which are more or less conservative. But the Liberals and Democrats are neither necessarily liberal; many of their economic and certain social policies are more akin to socialism, which I suppose one could say that communism, socialism's extreme cousin, is in it's perfect state absolute liberalism. But it would take a bulldozer to convince me that socialism is necessarily liberal.


And secondly, what's the difference between right and left, truly? Their meant to be opposites, I know that, but considering the origins of the terms, "during the French Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution), left-wing referred to seating arrangements in parliament; those who sat on the left opposed the monarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy) and supported radical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical) reform," and "during the French Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution), right-wing referred to seating arrangements in parliament; those who sat on the right supported the monarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy) and aristocratic privilege (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocracy)," does right mean pro-class and government, or does it mean pro-conservation of the status quo? Does left mean individualistic, or simply reform?

[Archangel]

Why does tater get so hung up on people posting twice in a row?

[taters]

Did you even read the post? I don't think so.


Yes, and I meant what I said. As I said, the same post has been made by several other people, all of which ensuring subtle backlash and divisiveness, with the sharp tinge of non-overt bigotry.

Here's what I don't understand: why are conservatism and liberalism deemed opposites so often? Literally, the words mean no such thing, frankly, they could be the same if the status quo is founded on civil and economic liberty. The Republican and the PCs of Canada both have similar policies, both of which are more or less conservative. But the Liberals and Democrats are neither necessarily liberal; many of their economic and certain social policies are more akin to socialism, which I suppose one could say that communism, socialism's extreme cousin, is in it's perfect state absolute liberalism. But it would take a bulldozer to convince me that socialism is necessarily liberal.

I agree with part of what you said. I said much of the same thing here- http://forum.gorillamask.net/showpost.php?p=188569&postcount=6

libertarianism is not a 'right' or 'left' wing concept, it has elements of both sides.

Civil Libertarianism
Economic Libertarianism
Social Libertarianism
Anarchic Libertarianism

etc


Dont rely on what Hannity, O Reilly and other so called fox-libertarians tell you. Some of the main tenants of libertarianism tend to be things they oppose greatly (freedom of abortion, freedom of civil liberties, freedom of speech, no taxing of unpopular war, no religion in politics, etc etc). Also, ignore the so-called 'american libertarian' party. Its a joke, and when it comes down to it, its supporters only real concern is cutting taxes to things they dont like, not things they do.

Also here, ironically enough replying to the same ignorant poster who started this thread - http://forum.gorillamask.net/showpost.php?p=249947&postcount=103

Im not some 'liberal yuppy' or some 'green hippy'. Im not even in the actual catagory of 'liberal', but because the country needs simplified, easy to understand 'yes or no' explanations of politics, I guess youll have to lobb me into that catagory. When you figure out what wing Socio-Libertarians, or Capito-Syndicalist fall into, peg me in.

Archangel - Because its a sign of trolling...the very thing this net stalker referred to me as.

[Genius]

The most racist nations/people on the earth are the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese....well to be honest the Asian people in general.
I'm hoping beyond hope, on a day filled with hope, that you typed this sentence as maybe the greatest example of irony ever, or as a wonderful parody of your normal posts, seeing as how that's basically what this thread is. But I doubt it.

[Claydon]

taters, again...i must point out, your failure as a human being is not due to the melanin of skin. it has more to do with the fact that you are just a waste of human tissue....nothing more.

[BIG PIZZLE]

I'm hoping beyond hope, on a day filled with hope, that you typed this sentence as maybe the greatest example of irony ever, or as a wonderful parody of your normal posts, seeing as how that's basically what this thread is. But I doubt it.

Is stereotyping all asians as racists racist? Yes it is. But claydon cant be racist against asians, he mastubates to them exclusively.

[Archetype]

Yes, and I meant what I said. As I said, the same post has been made by several other people, all of which ensuring subtle backlash and divisiveness, with the sharp tinge of non-overt bigotry.
I happen to agree with most of what Claydon said, actually. It's a load of crap that a "black" president means anything at all. And yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call your bluff on this being posted at Stormfront. It's STORMFRONT. Read: they don't have to be subtle.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Maybe it doesnt mean anything to you b/c you're not black. It's not that big a deal to me but I've heard countless stories in the news about how most black kids never thought they could be president, even their parents thought it would be impossible. Many of the blacks in the US today still have family members that were subject to segrigation some that even used to pick cotton. On a personal note, I took some pleasure out of the new president being sworn in as Barack Hussein Obama.

[Claydon]

Is stereotyping all asians as racists racist? Yes it is. But claydon cant be racist against asians, he mastubates to them exclusively.

[Pax Britannia]

This is how Bush and Cheney should have left the White House.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/Raptor08_2008/Bush-Cheney-R.jpg
"We're going out the front door George"
"Right behind ya Dick"

[Archangel]

I'm hoping beyond hope, on a day filled with hope, that you typed this sentence as maybe the greatest example of irony ever, or as a wonderful parody of your normal posts, seeing as how that's basically what this thread is. But I doubt it.

I am half East Asian, have lived in East Asia for a long time (and visited a lot since then), and although it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Claydon here. A great number of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese ARE a bunch of racist mother fuckers. The thing is that they're far too polite to overtly let people feel it, but a very large percentage of them simply considers others as inferior - probably the product of highly advanced societies arising out of total isolationism. When my dad was in Korea in the early 1970's, children would cry at the sight of the long nosed, yellow haired devil. Nowadays, it's more subtle, more subliminal, but it's still there.
However, younger generations spending a lot of time abroad and cultures intertwining globally, not to mention the fact that Asians are masters at adapting, make me think that the future might be better.

[wonderllama]

A great number of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese ARE a bunch of racist mother fuckers.


Ask anyone near Asia, this is old news.
Unfortunately though, the modern approach is to counter it with equally racist behaviour.

Australians on the whole are still wary of Asians on the whole because of WW2 and in particular Japan's non-apologising or educating of the past...however, not all of us are that way.

[Genius]

I am half East Asian, have lived in East Asia for a long time (and visited a lot since then), and although it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Claydon here. A great number of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese ARE a bunch of racist mother fuckers. The thing is that they're far too polite overtly let people feel it, but a very large percentage of them simply considers others as inferior - probably the product of highly advanced societies arising out of total isolationism. When my dad was in Korea in the early 1970's, children would cry at the sight of the long nosed, yellow haired devil.
That's fine. But Claydon made it clear that he thought around 2 billion people are the most racist people in the world. That's not even a racial generalization. They don't even have a word for that type of...whatever it is. It's like an uberlization or something.

[Archetype]

Maybe it doesnt mean anything to you b/c you're not black. It's not that big a deal to me but I've heard countless stories in the news about how most black kids never thought they could be president, even their parents thought it would be impossible. Many of the blacks in the US today still have family members that were subject to segrigation some that even used to pick cotton.
Good point. It just bothers me that it matters at all, or like Llama said, that the counter to racism is positivist racism. It's still racism. But I suppose that's what you get when you live in a world ruled by relativism.

[dadaelus]

...I felt it was time to post something reasonably intelligent

Way to swing for the fence!

[taters]

I happen to agree with most of what Claydon said, actually. It's a load of crap that a "black" president means anything at all. And yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call your bluff on this being posted at Stormfront. It's STORMFRONT. Read: they don't have to be subtle.

Im not posting a link. Check for yourself. Dont create a profile or anything, but use a proxy and check it out (www.openzend.com is a good one...). Trust me, I wasnt making the comparison to be funny.


Its shitty that a black president should have to mean anything at all, but it does considering (as said in the speech) the mans father wouldnt get served in a white food vendor 50 years ago, and was legally barred from even the most mundane aspects of american life, even voting, and probably would have been murdered for having a white wife (and he himself murdered for being half white), and now that very man is president.

You can ignore history all you want, but it only makes you look silly when others grasp the historical significance of society changing events that you dont.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Good point. It just bothers me that it matters at all, or like Llama said, that the counter to racism is positivist racism. It's still racism. But I suppose that's what you get when you live in a world ruled by relativism.

How is it racism to be happy that your kids have a positive role model? They're not happy because he's black, they're happy because he's president.

[Spanky]

http://i28.tinypic.com/263hvt2.gif

[Archetype]

Its shitty that a black president should have to mean anything at all, but it does considering (as said in the speech) the mans father wouldnt get served in a white food vendor 50 years ago, and was legally barred from even the most mundane aspects of american life, even voting, and probably would have been murdered for having a white wife (and he himself murdered for being half white), and now that very man is president.

You can ignore history all you want, but it only makes you look silly when others grasp the historical significance of society changing events that you dont.

Hey, I'll admit a little ignorance, Canada doesn't have the same social issues the US does, our head of state's been a black woman going on a couple of years now.

How is it racism to be happy that your kids have a positive role model? They're not happy because he's black, they're happy because he's president.

OK, you've got me. Didn't you just say they were happy because the president is black and the hardships related to that?

[Debo]

How is it racism to be happy that your kids have a positive role model? They're not happy because he's black, they're happy because he's president.

Did they consider Bush a role model? What about Clinton or Bush 41?

For some the answer is yes. But for others they consider Obama their role model because he is the POTUS and because he is black.

[Phil Theehor]

Theoretically, but how many of the self proclaimed 'libertarians' actually live by that philosophy? (By self proclaimed I mean Sean Hannity, on and off Rush Limbaugh, Bill O Reilly).

Libertarianism is merely a venting concept for disgruntled republicans to claim they are as a complaint against spending politics within their own party. But when Abortion, Gay Rights, Equal opportunity and Unionization comes up, 'live and let live' is forgotten.

I hate to fall into name calling, but that's really, really retarded. What you have just said there is that an entire school of thought doesn't really exist-- that it's only a window dressing.

As someone who ascribes to the Libertarian philosophy, let me assure you, hotshot, that we really do exist.

Read my (or Morfin's) positions here on social issues (gay marriage, for instance) and then on economic issues (bailing out Detroit). What you'll see there is a pretty consistent fiscally conservative, socially liberal policy. As I said earlier, a Libertarian believes in "Live and Let Live" across the board and is confused by the inconsistency of the traditional left and right positions-- seemingly selective in their desire for government control.

PS. Who the fuck is Phil Theechor?

[Phil Theehor]

Good point. It just bothers me that it matters at all, or like Llama said, that the counter to racism is positivist racism. It's still racism. But I suppose that's what you get when you live in a world ruled by relativism.

That's a fair point and it's tough to argue.

But with that said, I'm really happy we elected a black president. I would have preferred it to be Powell in '00, but that's not relevant.

It's a great step for us as a society. Racism hasn't been eradicated, obviously. It still exists because a great many people need to hate other people. Were we all the same color, they would hate based on another irrelevant difference.

That said, this is the beginning of the end of institutional racism. A black man has ascended to the most powerful job in the world. The ceiling is gone.

I hope like hell that Obama continues to use his tremendous abilities to lead and inspire and *crosses fingers* learns that government is not the solution to every problem.

We're rooting for you, Barry.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Hey, I'll admit a little ignorance, Canada doesn't have the same social issues the US does, our head of state's been a black woman going on a couple of years now.



OK, you've got me. Didn't you just say they were happy because the president is black and the hardships related to that?

There is a differene between being racist and taking pride in someone of your race. /thread.

[Debo]

That said, this is the beginning of the end of institutional racism. A black man has ascended to the most powerful job in the world. The ceiling is gone.

I hope like hell that Obama continues to use his tremendous abilities to lead and inspire and *crosses fingers* learns that government is not the solution to every problem.

Since we are roaming off topic into race, this is a very interesting read about black culture in the US:
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11326407

If Obama can change this, I will put him in my Top 5 POTUS of all time.

Here is another interesting case study:
http://people.virginia.edu/~cah2k/classdisc.pdf (http://people.virginia.edu/%7Ecah2k/classdisc.pdf)

[taters]

Since we are roaming off topic into race, this is a very interesting read about black culture in the US:
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11326407

If Obama can change this, I will put him in my Top 5 POTUS of all time.

Here is another interesting case study:
http://people.virginia.edu/~cah2k/classdisc.pdf (http://people.virginia.edu/%7Ecah2k/classdisc.pdf)

I dont know if the attitudes of -5% of blacks towards the race could be considered viable indicators into social problems. Not saying they are all incorrect, but considering many of the above have made careers off doing the exact thing they vilify the NAACP/J. Jackons and A. Sharpton for, only from the reverse perspective (brilliant economically, but socially destructive).

A few more widely accepted issues on black culture which are accepted as issues among the other 95% of the black community-

income disparities by race (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/13/AR2006111301114.html)

More - http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16293332

Crime and Race - http://www88.homepage.villanova.edu/lance.hannon/Forthcoming%20in%20the%20Journal%20of%20Poverty.pd f

Racial profiling - http://www.justiceinitiative.org/activities/ec/ec_russia/moscow_workshop/Shuford

Income disparities between college educated whites and blacks - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/28/education/28income.html

more

http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/47_four-year_collegedegrees.html


If Obama does something about these things, which most academia and african americans themselves agree are the primary social issues within the black community, Ill consider him a success.

That being said, even if he does nothing about these and rebuilds the economy, Ill still consider him a success.

I hate to fall into name calling, but that's really, really retarded. What you have just said there is that an entire school of thought doesn't really exist-- that it's only a window dressing.

As someone who ascribes to the Libertarian philosophy, let me assure you, hotshot, that we really do exist.

??? When did I said there is no such thing as libertarianism? Did you read the post before replying to it? I said most so-called american libertarians are fraudulent, and only aspire to libertarian ideals on things they agree with, but mystereiously remain quiet or accepting of principles of libertarianism that dont follow with US republican/right wing ideals (abortion, civil liberties, separation of church and state.

I specifically (re)stated that

Dont rely on what Hannity, O Reilly and other so called fox-libertarians tell you. Some of the main tenants of libertarianism tend to be things they oppose greatly (freedom of abortion, freedom of civil liberties, freedom of speech, no taxing of unpopular war, no religion in politics, etc etc). Also, ignore the so-called 'american libertarian' party. Its a joke, and when it comes down to it, its supporters only real concern is cutting taxes to things they dont like, not things they do.

Where are you reading from?

[Archetype]

??? When did I said there is no such thing as libertarianism? Did you read the post before replying to it? I said most so-called american libertarians are fraudulent, and only aspire to libertarian ideals on things they agree with, but mystereiously remain quiet or accepting of principles of libertarianism that dont follow with US republican/right wing ideals (abortion, civil liberties, separation of church and state.

I specifically (re)stated that



Where are you reading from?

Where are you reading from, goofball?


I hate to fall into name calling, but that's really, really retarded. What you have just said there is that an entire school of thought doesn't really exist-- that it's only a window dressing.

Libertarianism is merely a venting concept for disgruntled republicans to claim they are as a complaint against spending politics within their own party. But when Abortion, Gay Rights, Equal opportunity and Unionization comes up, 'live and let live' is forgotten.

[Ghostrider]

I still don't understand the racist comment "whites do what is right". Is that priest judging all people of lighter colored skin and saying that we intentionally do the wrong thing on a daily basis? Substitute any other skin color and see how fast the ACLU would be up his ass.

[Claydon]

this thread was going along swimmingly until tater had to bring in his stupidity and blatant bigotry.

[Skybase]

I picked me up some of that Walmart special Claydon. Think I'll mail it to Taters and see if i can't get Reverend Jesse Jackson to toss him a little action. it'd be like being fucked by Jesus...

....or something.

[Claydon]

I picked me up some of that Walmart special Claydon. Think I'll mail it to Taters and see if i can't get Reverend Jesse Jackson to toss him a little action. it'd be like being fucked by Jesus...

....or something.

can't you envision it....al shaprton coming up behind tater saying....


"its time to let out that anger in you....pucker up buttercup"

[taters]

Where are you reading from, goofball?


Thats not calling them 'window dressing', its calling them fake. Which they are. As I said now multiple times here (again)-

Dont rely on what Hannity, O Reilly and other so called fox-libertarians tell you. Some of the main tenants of libertarianism tend to be things they oppose greatly (freedom of abortion, freedom of civil liberties, freedom of speech, no taxing of unpopular war, no religion in politics, etc etc). Also, ignore the so-called 'american libertarian' party. Its a joke, and when it comes down to it, its supporters only real concern is cutting taxes to things they dont like, not things they do.


this thread was going along swimmingly until tater had to bring in his stupidity and blatant bigotry.


The thread initiated with subtle bigoted comments by the forums #4 biggest bigot calling the black guy a bigot...do you cook more with pots or kettles?

[Pax Britannia]

The thread initiated with subtle bigoted comments by the forums #4 biggest bigot calling the black guy a bigot...do you cook more with pots or kettles?

Claydons number 4? Can we have a top ten list of hate?

[taters]

I only put him at 4 because Goat, Mongo/TiM and (self admittedly) Yel are top three. After that the lines are blurry. He'll, Id probably throw myself in, but I imagine I would be closer to 9 or 10 in an actual ranked list.

[Phil Theehor]

If Claydon (or someone else) were looking to improve his ranking (climb your list), what steps would you recommend?

[Debo]

If Claydon (or someone else) were looking to improve his ranking (climb your list), what steps would you recommend?

A burning cross gif?

[Archetype]

A burning cross gif?
Hacked into and plastered all over barackobama.com would be a nice touch.

[taters]

If Claydon (or someone else) were looking to improve his ranking (climb your list), what steps would you recommend?

Post more frequent one sentence replies that randomly toss in slurs for no reason.

I would be a big jump to get to three, but its possible.

[Hoser]

This list needs ot be posted.

[Debo]

Post more frequent one sentence replies that randomly toss in slurs for no reason.

I would be a big jump to get to three, but its possible.

So they need to have the posting equivalent of turrets?

[Hoser]

Fuck Shit ***** Twat!!!!!

[taters]

So they need to have the posting equivalent of turrets?

Thats looking too far into it. Just copying goat would suffice.

[Archetype]

The level of actual racism within Goat is pretty much up for grabs.

[Hobnail_Boot]

Ok folks, so the campaign is long since over (thankfully), the next president will be sworn into office in about 9 hours and I felt it was time to post something reasonably intelligent, perhaps long winded, and just clear the air about my feelings with regards to the soon to be President Barack Obama.

Several of you believe that I am a partisan wonk, Bush apologist, blind supporter of the Republican party, facist, and for at least one worthless member a racist. I assure you nothing could be further from the truth! Although I will certainly never deny the very real fact that I am indeed right of center with regards to politics (I believe in the 2nd Ammendment AND that drugs/prostitution should be legal...for example), a Republican, a supporter of the US military operations in the middle east, despite all of this I never actually voted for Bush Jr. I wrote in McCain for the 2000 election and abstained from voting for the President in 2004. Be that as it may, I disagreed with Bush on MANY things such as but not limited to, his views on abortion, and stem cell research just to name a few. All of you are well aware of my disapproval of Obama becoming our next President, however, unlike many of you liberal wonks on here, I am and will be a loyal oppositionist, unlike many of you fools, I will see Obama as the President, a person in control of the executive branch of my government and because of this I will pay him the due respect. As I did with Clinton in the 90s, whom I detested with a passion, I was honored to see him speak in 1997; and why is this? Because he was the President, and unlike the media, I would and will refer to him as Mr. President and not merely by his last name.

Why would I want Obama to fail? Actually I do not, I truly hope he succeeds and makes our (excluding EU fags and the upstanding british members) country what it has been for well over a century. A beacon of prosperity, political freedom, the very definition of pragmatism, and proof positive that the United States is ever changing, ever growing, and on the cutting edge. Mr. Obama is proof positive that the United States is a fair country (for the most part), and that the child of an immigrant can achieve something truly great. Some on this forum feel the US is the very textbook definition of racism, and unfair treatment (tater don't bother this thread with your bullshit), these 'people' clearly have no concept how the rest of the world really functions. If you all want to see racism in action, look to the west. The most racist nations/people on the earth are the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese....well to be honest the Asian people in general. Be that as it may, it is truly, only in America that people who were once considered property, and then kept separated under dubious laws set out in the late 19th century can aspire, and achieve the highest political office of the land.

However, at the same time a 'black' man achieving the office of the President simply is not that big of a deal to me. Look, I am in no way suggesting that Obama being the first 'black' man to be President is not a big deal. As a US history major, I must admit that I relish this moment in history and furthermore, I hope it represents the true ending of the Civil War. However, understand that from my perspective it just is not a big deal. I was born and raised in Los Angeles, a metropolitan area of 10 million people. I grew up in the 1980s when the city of Los Angeles had a 'black' man for mayor (Tom Bradely), I had a 'black' man for a high school principal, I was arrested by a 'black' police officer in my 20s, and the list goes on. For me, a 'black' person in a position of authority is truly not a big deal, or anything other than normal. I know the same cannot be said for backwater USA and parts of the deep south. So Obama having more melanin in his skin just does not give me an erection like it does the media and some of you.

So the world has decoupled from the United States many have claimed, at a time when the United States is on the decline as the world economic and military power, and furthermore we simply just do not influence the world all that much. Well, that is a complete farce, the world watched this election VERY closely, and the world has taken a massive dive economically the moment the US economy started to nose dive. Decoupled? It is just a whimsical word put out by those who need to sell words for a living. At this moment and time and at least for the foreseeable future, the United States of America is the economic, political, military, cultural center of the world. As with Clinton, as I will be with Obama, as I was with Bush Jr. I am proud that these men represent this country on the world stage. I was proud to call George W. Bush President, and I am equally proud to call Mr. Barack H. Obama Mr. President.

God bless the Presidency, and may God continue to bless the United States of America.
Your "rant" wasn't really about Obama at all. It was about your world view.

And call me a partisan wonk if you want, but I was never proud to call George W. Bush my President, mostly because I do not believe he actually "won" a presidential election fairly. Much in the same way many republicans didn't consider Bill Clinton's 1st term "legitimate" because he didn't receive 50% of the vote, I never considered Bush's election "legitimate" because he didn't receive MOST of the votes. And there were shenanigans going on in Florida. And the Supreme Court "awarded" Bush the presidency. Then, after I swallowed my pride and "got behind our president" after the election, he goes and screws the country into war in Iraq. And takes away civil liberties. And denies climate change. And places politics over science. And politicizes the Justice Department. And the list goes on and on. Bush had a slim chance to "impress" me and many other American after the 2000 election, and he went and fucked it up by making poor decisions, enacting flawed policies, deceit, and overall tone deafness. I don't think Bush is a "bad" person per se, but he certainly wasn't well equipped to be president. He should never have been "elected" (and wasn't). I'm glad to see him gone.

[Hanover Fist]

Something near and dear to my heart and the main reason that my wife hasn't had to work for many years is the glorious EITC. I haven't actually owed any taxes in over a decade even when I made a fairly decent living.
They basically take no federal taxes out of my check and on average I get back about $3-$4k a year in refunds federally about $1k in state.
Under Obama I can still not pay any taxes but it looks like I might be getting a whole lot more back every year, hell I might even have another kid or two now, keep that EITC flowing for another 20 years.
Eu12oawTz2g

[mongo]

I only put him at 4 because Goat, Mongo/TiM and (self admittedly) Yel are top three. After that the lines are blurry. He'll, Id probably throw myself in, but I imagine I would be closer to 9 or 10 in an actual ranked list.

sweet. first time taters has ever made me grin.

(i've never understood ****** humor)

[Claydon]

Im not exactly sure what I have said that is truly racist other than as a joke.


It must have been something about, people should work and take responsibility for their lives. Perhaps that is what taters feels is so damned racist.