View Full Version : MLB: GMF's Starting Five
Pick a starting 5. List 'em and discuss.
EDIT - I went:
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens
Greg Maddux
Though Pedro's nipping at the heels and I could easily see any of the deadballers (Alexander, Grove, Matthewson) in the top 5 as opposed to a modern-era guy.
Penguin Rick
02-02-2009, 01:09 PM
Santana, Halladay, Peavy, Webb, and Sabathia.
That rotation has an insane K/9 rate.
Santana, Halladay, Peavy, Webb, and Sabathia.
That rotation has an insane K/9 rate.
You must've been IBTP. Meant all-time, not current.
Penguin Rick
02-02-2009, 01:12 PM
Ahh yes, indeed.
redsox39
02-02-2009, 01:12 PM
Bob Gibson and Walter Johnson were the "Roger Clemens/Randy Johnson/Nolan Ryan" of their days.
Cy Young because he was a Redsox...
Bob Gibson and Walter Johnson
One of these pitchers has the greatest career and one of the greatest peaks of all time.
Another one of these pitchers is named Bob Gibson.
were the "Roger Clemens/Randy Johnson/Nolan Ryan" of their days.
Randy: 3.26 ERA (137 ERA+), 4789/1466 K/BB over 4039.3 IP
Roger: 3.12 ERA (143 ERA+), 4672/1580 K/BB over 4916.7 IP
Nolan: 3.19 ERA (111 ERA+), 5714/2795 K/BB over 5386.0 IP
Nolan (who I stupidly forgot to list, given how many see him as the GOAT) has almost exclusively value from longevity. His K value is hugely undercut by his wildness with BBs.
Cy Young because he was a Redsox...
...And one of the greatest of all time?
redsox39
02-02-2009, 01:22 PM
One of these pitchers has the greatest career and one of the greatest peaks of all time.
Another one of these pitchers is named Bob Gibson.
Randy: 3.26 ERA (137 ERA+), 4789/1466 K/BB over 4039.3 IP
Roger: 3.12 ERA (143 ERA+), 4672/1580 K/BB over 4916.7 IP
Nolan: 3.19 ERA (111 ERA+), 5714/2795 K/BB over 5386.0 IP
Nolan (who I stupidly forgot to list, given how many see him as the GOAT) has almost exclusively value from longevity. His K value is hugely undercut by his wildness with BBs.
...And one of the greatest of all time?
I love me some Bob Gibson, but since he is a hometown hero here in Omaha, sometimes I get biased with him. Cy Young... when I really look at him, I think he was that first 'great' guy, but has been surpassed by many over the years. In fact, just about everyone with a Cy Young award is probably better than Cy Young...(not all, just in general)
Willam
02-02-2009, 01:25 PM
No Gaylord Perry? The greatest spitballer ever!
I love me some Bob Gibson, but since he is a hometown hero here in Omaha, sometimes I get biased with him. Cy Young... when I really look at him, I think he was that first 'great' guy, but has been surpassed by many over the years. In fact, just about everyone with a Cy Young award is probably better than Cy Young...(not all, just in general)
Cy Young is just a toughie. The other 1880s/90s 500 IP wizards (Tim Keefe, Pud Galvin, etc) can somewhat be dismissed for all-time discussions (IMO) because they basically ONLY existed successfully in that period. Young was great even by the standards of the era (ranking top 10 in innings, usually top 5, almost every year of his career) and extended his success all the way to 1911. Heck his best two years are likely 1901 and 1908. Given the way Young changed with the game (he did what you'd expect, where despite getting older his raw ERA got way better as his innings load reduced from that 1890s overload) and his crazy durability (6th in innings in 1908 at age 41, enjoying his best season by raw ERA and 2nd best by ERA+) suggests a guy who would be good anywhere.
No Gaylord Perry? The greatest spitballer ever!
Gaylord Perry = Bert Blyleven
But for some reason ole Bert is still on the outside of the Hall looking in.
Willam
02-02-2009, 02:01 PM
Gaylord Perry = Bert Blyleven
But for some reason ole Bert is still on the outside of the Hall looking in.
Bert Blyleven??? Really???
Was Bert this first pitcher to win the Cy Young in both leagues?
No, that was Gaylord Perry ( a feat matched only by Maddux, Johnson, and Martinez). In fact Bert never won a single Cy Young.
Perry also held the record for most consecutive 15-win seasons since 1900 with 13 (1966-1978) and was 2nd all-time to Cy Young, who had 15 (1891-1905). Of course Maddux now owns the record with 17.
ShitBreak
02-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Where the fuck is Warren Spahn?
Jose Rijo, Mario Soto, Tom Browning, Jim Maloney, Aaron Harang
Bert Blyleven??? Really???
Was Bert this first pitcher to win the Cy Young in both leagues?
No, that was Gaylord Perry ( a feat matched only by Maddux, Johnson, and Martinez). In fact Bert never won a single Cy Young.
Perry also held the record for most consecutive 15-win seasons since 1900 with 13 (1966-1978) and was 2nd all-time to Cy Young, who had 15 (1891-1905). Of course Maddux now owns the record with 17.
Well first off that 78 CYA was a pretty meh season for him. 72 was a peak year Blyleven doesn't equal, but career-wise:
Bert: 3.31 ERA (118 ERA+), 3701/1322 K/BB, 1.198 WHIP over 4970.0 IP
Perry: 3.11 ERA (117 ERA+), 3534/1379 K/BB, 1.181 WHIP over 5350.3 IP
Perry had a slightly better raw ERA, but in a more pitcher friendly environment (and even unadjusted they're close). Admittedly Blyleven doesn't have a year like Perry's 72 (though his 73 is close), and beyond that they're basically the same. Gaylord Perry is Bert Blyleven for 400 more innings.
Where the fuck is Warren Spahn?
"Other"
Same model as Gaylord Perry. Same career length and run-prevention ability, basically Bert Blyleven with one better year (in Spahn's case 53).
Koufax I don't agree with, but I can understand. The one who I find a bit surprising is ole Bob Gibson getting so much love. He's middle of the pack in all-time greats in both run prevention (127 ERA+, for someone like Gibson especially you HAVE to remember the era he was in for raw ERA) and playing time (3800 IP)
Genius
02-03-2009, 08:39 PM
Walter Johnson
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens
Lefty Grove
Carl Hubbell
I love me some lefties. And Hubbell 33-36 is one of the best stretches ever by a pitcher. He won the MVP. Twice.
Walter Johnson
Roger Clemens
Cy Young
Randy Johnson
Tom Seaver
Seaver, just because I have to show some love for the mets,
Draven X 23
02-03-2009, 09:59 PM
Really? You think Johnson is better then Maddux?
Menace2Sobriety
02-03-2009, 11:38 PM
Poll needs more options. Where the fuck is Satchel Paige?
Poll needs more options. Where the fuck is Satchel Paige?
You can only go so far, that's why I stuck "Discuss" next to other.
Walter Johnson
Randy Johnson
Roger Clemens
Lefty Grove
Carl Hubbell
I love me some lefties. And Hubbell 33-36 is one of the best stretches ever by a pitcher. He won the MVP. Twice.
Hubbell over Maddux? Just as crazy a peak (if not moreso), for more than a thousand more innings (and in the modern era vs. 30s), and is a righty so at least doesn't leave you TOTALLY vulnerable.
TheImpossibleMan
02-11-2009, 12:22 PM
I voted Lefty, Rocket, Mad Dog, Big Train, and Pedro. I really ought to have found room for Bob Gibson in there but he wasn't listed.
I voted Lefty, Rocket, Mad Dog, Big Train, and Pedro. I really ought to have found room for Bob Gibson in there but he wasn't listed.
Gibson is absolutely listed...
TheImpossibleMan
02-11-2009, 12:31 PM
D'oh!
I guess I'd cut Pedro for Gibson.
D'oh!
I guess I'd cut Pedro for Gibson.
Really? Why Gibson over... Well lots of folks?
TheImpossibleMan
02-11-2009, 04:42 PM
Homer pick. Seaver is better, I'm just super gay for Bob Gibson.
cAsE sEnSiTiVe
02-25-2009, 12:06 PM
Where the fuck is Warren Spahn?
persactly
persactly
How is Spahn greater than Walter Johnson, Roger Clemens, Greg Maddux, Cy Young, Randy Johnson, and several others?
Lone Wolf
02-28-2009, 10:39 AM
Wait a minute ... WTF! ... no Satchel Paige?
nuclearjew
02-28-2009, 10:47 AM
Dwight Gooden, Bob Ojeda, Ron Darling, Sid Fernandez and Rick Aguilera.
Titus_Pullo
02-28-2009, 10:56 AM
STEVE MUTHAFUCKIN' CARLTON!
Le Goat
02-28-2009, 11:19 AM
I'd kill to have an all negro league team.
zaphrodesiac
02-28-2009, 11:34 AM
Gibson, Johnson, Clemens, Smoltz, Ryan