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View Full Version : A Much Needed Break from Religion


Archangel
03-19-2009, 10:05 AM
Because at this point, we might just as well re-name this the Religion section. Not that I don't like our debates regarding matters of faith, but I'm getting the feeling we keep circling those wagons ad infinitum, so a cease-fire might be in order.

So let's get down to business, shall we?


You know what I've noticed? In the realm of personal relationships, people never have serious talks when things are going relatively well, even if there are some obvious issues which need working out: However, as long as people can live with those, they prefer glossing them over instead of rocking the boat. It's only after a huge fight or some other major event that actual discussions and (possibly) the resulting catharsis take place.

In short, your girlfriend has never said "we need to talk" when things were peachy.


Now, this is hardly earth-shattering stuff, I know. Humans are lazy, and more driven towards a comfortable status quo than actual improvement, in any context, from relationships to entire civilisations.

So is it any wonder that these last few decades, having seen the greatest prosperity and comfort ever known, the West has produced pretty much zero original thought? Or, channeling Watchmen, would America be worse off philosophically without the disaster that was Vietnam?

Is crisis the wellspring of thought? Is there no progress without struggle?


Paradigms only need to shift when the current paradigm reveals itself to be insufficient, just as on a personal level, people who own TVs and cars seldom find themselves yearning for ethereal things such as "liberty" or "justice". The great revolutions didn't happen because of ideals, they happened because people were oppressed or starving. The ideals - namely, the notions on how the current state of affairs was wrong, and how to improve it - were a product of misery.
I mean, is it surprising that while Athens, constantly fighting for her survival, produced the greatest thinkers mankind has ever known, Rome, in her centuries of peace and wealth, produced hardly any - the only notable exceptions occurring during the upheavals in the 100 years around Year Zero (end of the Republic, rise of Christianity)?

The awesome evolution of thought that was humanism was the direct result of Europe's greatest tragedy, namely the Black Death of 1348. Suddenly, scholastic thought and the iteration of faith which had governed Europe for centuries had proved themselves woefully inadequate in making sense of this monstrous crisis, and people like Boccaccio realised that something radically new was needed.

The examples are as endless as they are significant: the Thirty Years War and the Lisbon Earthquake gave birth to Enlightenment; the wars of the late 18th century brought about the rise of democratic thought; the Napoleonic Wars kick-started European nationalism and socialism; the aftermath of World War I saw some of the greatest artistic production Europe had ever known, etc etc.

The last great shift was obviously WWII (and the Bomb), which made us re-think human dignity and the inalienable rights that come with it, the role of war in politics, the fallibility inherent in constitutional democracy, the importance of trade etc, not to mention renewed discussions of the nature and the possibilities of faith and art.

Since then... what?


One one hand, one could oviously bring forth the argument that as long as things are fine, there is no need for change. The problem is, things are never "fine"; even today, a great many things are very wrong in the world, from greed to the resulting injustice, starvation, epidemics, environmental problems, fanaticism, and so on; but it is only when these things reach the boiling point, when our comforts are threatened, that we get off our arses and actually do something about them. Until then, we're totally cool with everything that's wrong. You know your girl hates your father, but it never comes up until Christmas and the inevitable shouting match.

It's a sad testament to the human condition that denial and procrastination in the face of obvious deficiencies and grievances appear to be the natural reaction, that we only tackle problems AFTER they've blown up in our face.




Or am I the one who has it ass backwards, and it's not crisis which begets progress, but that it's the constant evolution of thought which strains the status quo to the breaking point?

Pax Britannia
03-19-2009, 10:09 AM
Humans are complex creatures, often we can be told not to touch fire because it will burn us but we do it anyway just to see if it's true. And once we are burned only then do we really learn not to touch the fire.

The Batman
03-19-2009, 10:14 AM
Humans are complex creatures, often we can be told not to touch fire because it will burn us but we do it anyway just to see if it's true. And once we are burned only then do we really learn not to touch the fire.

That sounds just like the way the people in the U.S. deals with a problem. (New Orleans, the mortgage collapse) Its not a problem until it is.

Limp
03-19-2009, 10:24 AM
That sounds just like the way the people in the U.S. deals with a problem. (New Orleans, the mortgage collapse) Its not a problem until it is.
It's not a problem until it is? NO FUCKING SHIT!

BTW, New Orleans wasn't a problem till they fucking came to Houston.... you know what i'm talking about.

The Batman
03-19-2009, 10:36 AM
It's not a problem until it is? NO FUCKING SHIT!

BTW, New Orleans wasn't a problem till they fucking came to Houston.... you know what i'm talking about.

I don't think you understand the statement. Everyone knew what was going to happen to New Orleans. They did nothing to prevent it. So the problem came because of lack of prevention.

But yeah, fuck those people. Thankfully a lot of them have left and taken their shit elsewhere.

CarsyCarsten
03-26-2009, 05:56 PM
Why eat, when you are not hungry?

And some people don't even eat when they are hungry, because that would mean, that they had to leave the World of Warcraft.

After all we are often driven by instinct.

Septic_Porpoise
03-26-2009, 08:59 PM
i have 5 level 80s.

Insomniac
03-26-2009, 11:48 PM
I think it's fair to say that we live by the principle, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The only reason we progress normally at all is that young people seem to view whatever the current system is as terrible and deserving of contempt. Once a crisis comes along to disillusion the average adult, then the great swings of history can happen.

But I mean that's the way scientists operate, isn't it? You have a certain hypothesis, you see if it works, and if it does, it's a theory. And then it's valid until you have evidence that it's not. That's when a revolution comes. Otherwise you just have some competing ideas.

It's a sad testament to the human condition that denial and procrastination in the face of obvious deficiencies and grievances appear to be the natural reaction, that we only tackle problems AFTER they've blown up in our face.

Maybe it is sad, but don't you think it's more fair to say that deficiencies and grievances only become obvious by blowing up? Otherwise people are always bitching about something that should be different. What makes them Cassandras is the thing actually happening, when usually the complainer is wrong and forgotten by history unless he or she is spectacularly wrong.

Archangel
03-28-2009, 11:00 AM
The thing is, things ARE broke. We ignore the leaky faucet until half the flat's underwater.

Pharon
03-28-2009, 11:25 AM
Is there no progress without struggle?
Correct.

/thread

Archangel
03-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Boo.

Pharon
03-28-2009, 11:28 AM
It's true, though. And it's not really about rocking the boat. It has more to do with the fact, I think, that people have more access to their emotions when they're in pain than when they're happy - which makes them more likely to entertain philosophical questions about life in the first place.

Better?

Archangel
03-28-2009, 11:29 AM
Somewhat.

Yelram
03-28-2009, 11:55 AM
Freedoms just another word for, nothing left to lose.

wizard of oz
05-03-2009, 03:08 PM
perhaps there as yet to be an event to stir people up to think about if the way things are is so great.


Or perhaps we have been programed to not question things to much?