PDA

View Full Version : MILITARY: Sec. Gates vs. pork fueled killer jets


freegood
07-16-2009, 10:40 PM
Gates and Congress Duel Over Weapons Systems (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124778566107954603.html)

CHICAGO -- Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he was determined to forge ahead with changing the priorities of the U.S. military on the same day lawmakers voted to thwart a key component of his plan.

The dueling visions of what the U.S. fighting forces should look like looms as one of the major battles between the Obama administration and Congress. Mr. Gates unveiled a $534 billion Defense Department budget in April that would cut back or cancel costly weapons systems he believes aren't relevant to the military's needs. But some members of Congress are pushing back, restoring funding to weapons systems that Mr. Gates had sought to kill.

"The time has come to draw a line and take a stand against the business-as-usual approach to national defense," Mr. Gates said in a speech before the Economic Club of Chicago. "If the Department of Defense can't figure out a way to defend the United States on a budget of more than half a trillion dollars a year, then our problems are much bigger than anything that can be cured by buying a few more ships and planes," he told a crowd of business executives.

Hours before Mr. Gates spoke, the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense moved to restore funding to three key programs, including a costly replacement helicopter for the White House and the supersonic F-22 Raptor fighter.

The F-22, built by Lockheed Martin Corp., is regarded as the most advanced fighter ever built. Many lawmakers believe that buying more of them is crucial to maintaining a military advantage in conventional threats that could emerge from countries such as Russia or China.

Mr. Gates thinks the 187 jets the U.S. currently has ordered are enough. He believes that more F-22s, with a price tag of $143 million each, would rob the Pentagon of resources it needs for current conflicts and a new fighter, the F-35 Lightning II. He has staked much of his political capital on blocking Congress from acquiring additional F-22s, and President Barack Obama has threatened to veto any bill that increases funding for the fighter.

However, some members of Congress appear determined to keep the project alive. The House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense on Thursday added $369 million to the 2010 defense budget as a sort of down payment on 12 more F-22s, following a similar move in the House Armed Services Committee that passed in the House. The subcommittee, headed by Pennsylvania Democrat Rep. John Murtha, also went against the White House by allocating $485 million to continue work on the presidential helicopter, a project terminated by Mr. Gates earlier this summer. A third program Mr. Gates had sought to end, the development of a new engine for the F-35 fighter, received $560 million.

In the Senate, lawmakers are also trying to add funding back in for the F-22.

Georgia Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss, whose state includes the F-22s Marietta assembly line, said in an interview that he expected broad support to buy seven more F-22s for $1.75 billion. Opposing his efforts are Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D., Mich.) and Sen. John McCain (R., Ariz.). In his speech, Mr. Gates lambasted supporters of the plane for coming up with "far fetched" usages in order to keep production going, such as hunting Somali pirates with an aircraft he believes has only limited use against advanced fighter planes. He also took aim at critics who say the Pentagon is ill-prepared for a big foe, explaining how the U.S. would stack up against China, whose air force would be outnumbered, and outclassed, by the 2,500 manned combat aircraft the U.S. expects to have by 2020.

Mr. Gates said his critics' arguments against his initiatives were "the holy trinity of business as usual."

The rising political stakes come during a week that is marked by some of the first defense-industry layoffs directly tied to the Pentagon's crackdown on weapons programs. Lockheed Martin announced 600 layoffs tied to the Pentagon's termination of the VH-71 program, while Boeing Co. said it was cutting 1,000 defense jobs because of a stop-work order on part of the Army Future Combat Systems program, and cutbacks to missile defense efforts.

tockit
07-18-2009, 05:05 PM
Good for Robert Gates!

In addition to creating and maintaining thousands of jobs, these F-22's would keep our fighter jet fleet on the forefront of technology.

If BHO had kept his promise on ending earmarks, we could have almost paid for these aircraft with the $400 billion some-odd dollars we wasted by placing in the economic stimulus package that we had to pass before most in congress had the chance to read:


IE: $650 million dollars for digital television convertor boxes
$850 million dollars for Amtrak
$100 million for reducing the hazards of lead based paint
I wonder if the democratic stimulus package #2 will have an earmark to provide televisions for the digital convertor boxes?

Claydon
07-18-2009, 05:52 PM
If barry goldwater was still around you can bet your ass we would get all 300 of the F22s.

Das Kahlua
07-18-2009, 10:13 PM
Wait, you mean Congress doesn't know when to stop spending money? There's no way this story can be true.

Hoser
07-18-2009, 10:53 PM
Woooooo F-22!!!!!

UXmDj3mFrXQ

freegood
07-18-2009, 11:01 PM
Good for Robert Gates!

In addition to creating and maintaining thousands of jobs, these F-22's would keep our fighter jet fleet on the forefront of technology.

If BHO had kept his promise on ending earmarks, we could have almost paid for these aircraft with the $400 billion some-odd dollars we wasted by placing in the economic stimulus package that we had to pass before most in congress had the chance to read:


IE: $650 million dollars for digital television convertor boxes
$850 million dollars for Amtrak
$100 million for reducing the hazards of lead based paint
I wonder if the democratic stimulus package #2 will have an earmark to provide televisions for the digital convertor boxes?

So you're anti-pork but are for pork and "stimulus" (by creating and maintaining thousands of jobs) when it comes to buying jets. Strange.

And that's eleven 143 million dollar jets you saved from the list. What about the rest of the 381 the Air Force said it needed?

tockit
07-18-2009, 11:51 PM
So you're anti-pork but are for pork and "stimulus" (by creating and maintaining thousands of jobs) when it comes to buying jets. Strange.
I'm 100% against pork given the current economic crisis.

And I have serious doubts as to whether we need to keep the F-22 program or not (I'm not that familiar with the condition of our current fighter jet fleet), but I would probably cut the spending of the money for these new fighter jets.

But, MY POINT IS that at least by keeping the F-22 program, we would have something that would create and save thousands of jobs, have an immediate effect on the economy, and create tangible assets that would keep our military among the best in the world.

You tell me how much earmarks such as spending $75 million dollars to help people quit smoking, or $21 million dollars to re-sod the National Mall is really going to help stimulate our economy?

And these are just two examples of the $100's of millions of dollars of BS that are loaded into that POS economic stimulus package we now have.

Its like the house is burning down, and congress is sitting around throwing furniture in the fire.

Its ridiculous...


As a taxpayer, I am sick and tired of congress's unscrupulous spending of the American people's money, during these troubling economic times.

Hoser
07-19-2009, 07:07 AM
But, MY POINT IS that at least by keeping the F-22 program, we would have something that would create and save thousands of jobs, have an immediate effect on the economy, and create tangible assets that would keep our military among the best in the world.


By making 534 billion rubber ducks you would be keeping jobs, and making bath time amongst the best in the world, doesn't mean it is the best use of your money.

Whiffleball
07-27-2009, 02:41 PM
By making 534 billion rubber ducks you would be keeping jobs, and making bath time amongst the best in the world, doesn't mean it is the best use of your money.

Exactly.

In the words of Dwight Eisenhower:

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. ... Is there no other way the world may live?

Don't get me wrong -- jobs are good. But instead of having these people build something that is overly expensive and of dubious value, encourage people to train to become teachers, cops, firemen or to enter another manufacturing industry or even another retail industry. I highly doubt that there is going to be a huge loss of defense contracting-related jobs in the U.S. anytime soon.

I also find it humorous that the same people who said "Sorry, sucks to be you" when the auto industry was tanking are suddenly jumping at the chance to effectively bail out one project in the arms industry.

And you can cite some of the more incredulous-sounding projects included in stimulus spending, but it's just as absurd -- if not more -- to build F-22s when it's insanely unlikely that the United States will ever fight in a conventional war anytime soon. We certainly don't need a jet that fucks up when it rains to fight the Taliban and Iraqi insurgents.

Besides, those projects you describe are just a sampling of what the stimulus spending went towards. The vast majority went to tax cuts for individuals, health care, education, the poor and the unemployed and investment in infrastructure.