Superman

[Kopek]

Discuss any and all incarnations --- sub textually gay or not.

Mark Millar Has “Big Name Action Director” For a Superman Returns Revamp (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/07/01/mark-millar-has-new-directorproducer-for-superman-returns-sequel/)

Bryan Singer will return to direct the sequel "Superman: Man of Steel" (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/03/11/bryan-singer-confirms-superman-man-of-steel-sequel-to-superman-returns/)

[Dragon]

Ideas from comic book writers on a revamp or Superman and how they would do it.

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/08/11/how-to-reboot-the-superman-movie-franchise-comic-writers-chime-in/

[HAWK]

So is Singer in or out (no pun intended)? Because now I've heard both.

[bixby]

All signs right now point to him being taken off the project. His writers got fired from the sequel, and Zack Snyder (300, Watchmen) and Louis Letterier (Incredible Hulk, The Transporter) both got offered the job to direct a reboot.

In that mtv article, both Grant Morrison and Geoff Johns (comic book writers) said that they went in to pitch reboot ideas, as well.

Superman Returns sure was a stirring success.

[Pfunky]

that's a re-boot of a re-boot right? COnsidering how incredible Hulk did box office wise, they might be in for a sour surprise. Returns was on HBO the other day, I forgot how bad it was!

[The Ape]

Zack Snyder just did an interview not too long back saying he was approached to reboot the Superman franchise and turned it down. The Incredible Hulk was leaps and bounds better than the POS that Lee did the thing is the studios was retarded for not pitching it as a reboot. There are still people who think its a sequel. Best move for Superman is to just pretend SR never happened....everyone else is.

[Mulder]

How long are they still going to reboot franchise? It worked extremely well with Batman, and well with the HULK...but Superman. I don't know, it should be hard to do.

[bixby]

Borrowing some ideas from the comic writers in that article would be a good start.

On the one hand, you’ve got “Batman Begins” (http://www.mtv.com/movies/movie/239765/moviemain.jhtml) and “The Dark Knight.” (http://www.mtv.com/movies/movie/306605/moviemain.jhtml) On the other, “Superman Returns.” (http://www.mtv.com/movies/movie/266061/moviemain.jhtml) So if you’re Warner Bros., what do you do to revitalize your other superhero? We asked a few comic book writers who know the Man of Steel best. “‘Superman Returns’ didn’t work for a lot of reasons,” Grant Morrison said.
“I so wanted that movie to work,” said Mark Waid, “but every choice they made in that movie was wrong. If you’re making the movie in a vacuum, and there will be no other Superman movies ever again, go ahead and give him a son. But otherwise, that’s a staggeringly awful idea. What are you going to do next? Either the kid has to be a part of his life, or get superpowers, which no one wants to see. I want to go to them and say, ‘What were you thinking?’”
“The idea was to make an American Christ figure, but what they centered on was his weakness,” Morrison said. “They made him more a lamb of God, rather than give us a real powerful Superman. They had too many scenes where he’s being kicked to the floor, and that’s not Superman. Superman would get up and fight.”
So these comics book writers are getting up and fighting too. Both Morrison and Geoff Johns have pitched the film studio on how to reboot Superman — properly reboot him, as if “Superman Returns” didn’t even happen.
“I told them, it’s not that bad,” Morrison said. “Just treat ‘Superman Returns’ as the Ang Lee ‘Hulk.’”
“‘The Hulk’ has proven the audience will forgive you and let you redo the franchise,” Waid said. “You can reboot from scratch.”
Morrison’s idea was a more “tight and concise” take on his “All-Star Superman,” so you’d see Superman address his mortality. And Waid suggests they take a look at his hard reboot, “Superman: Birthright.” But Brad Meltzer also has an idea that could work as the basis for the character, based on research for his upcoming “Book of Lies.”
“Superman is a character more recognizable than Abraham Lincoln or Mickey Mouse,” Meltzer said. “But no one knows crap about Mickey Mouse. He’s a symbol. Understanding a soul is much harder. So don’t treat him like a walking American flag.”
To understand Superman, Meltzer says, you have to know why Superman was created in the first place — because a young Jerry Siegel’s father was shot and killed in 1932 (a fact first uncovered by Gerard Jones in “Men of Tomorrow: Geeks, Gangsters and the Birth of the Comic Book”).
“Superman was created not because America is the greatest country on earth, not because Moses came to save us from Krypton, but because a little boy lost his father,” Meltzer said. “In his first appearances, he couldn’t fly. He didn’t have X-ray vision. He was only bulletproof. So Superman’s not a character built out of strength, but out of loss.”
“When you hear that, it puts on a whole new spin on Superman and his origins,” Waid said. “The understanding was that Batman was born out of traged and Superman out of hope and aspiration, and it turns out that it’s about not wanting to lose your loved ones. That’s critical, and it means that we can connect with him. He’s not an untouchable character. Bad things still happen to him. His father passes away, and his powers can’t save him.”
And even if Superman still seems like too much of a Boy Scout, we’re supposed to be identifying with Clark Kent anyway. “Everybody knows what it’s like to see the pretty girl and think, ‘If only she could see me for who I really was,’” Waid said. “Past the glasses and acne or whatever. But he has to hide, and half his co-workers don’t even know his name. That’s a critical part, too.”
“It is so much deeper than, ‘He’s an alien with superpowers,’” Meltzer said. “I never wanted to write a Superman movie before, but I do now. I understand what Superman is now.”

[scrum]

I still haven't seen this movie, and don't pretend to, I don't know why, just don't. go figure.

[Dragon]

Borrowing some ideas from the comic writers in that article would be a good start.


Completely agree. Some of the ways they want to take Superman would totally appeal to today's movie viewers let alone the fans of the comic book that would see it if it was bad or good.

[Fiend1138]

I wish they would have made Tim Burton's Superman like they were supposed to...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y263/thetaoofjoe2/tim-burton-superman.jpg

http://www.supermansupersite.com/supermanlives.html

[Dragon]

Eh no thanks I could do without that one. I actually might have one of the leaked scripts somewhere on my computer I want to get to one of these days and read.

[Fiend1138]

I don't know.. I think it would have been cool. It would have been refreshing to see a different take on Superman...

[Dragon]

I agree with a different take that's for sure. On the other hand would you really want to see such an icon and his costume changed so much let alone what Burton would have done to the storyline itself of the movie.

[ksul]

The suckiness of Superman Returns didn't hit me until I watched it for the first time since theaters yesterday.

[Fiend1138]

Anyways here's Kevin Smith's original Superman script...

http://fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Entertainment/Scripts/Kevin_Smiths-Superman.pdf

Not bad...

[Dragon]

I think I have that somewhere on my comp also probably where I can't find the Burton script. Smith's had some new Lex angle right? Kryptonian Lex or something with Brainiac as the main villain. Getting warmer?

[Fiend1138]

Here's more concept art from Burton's take... There's actually some pretty cool shit in there...

http://www.bamkapow.com/gallery.phtml?gk=9

[Dragon]

Certain aspects I would have kept. I like his vision of Krypton, the Brainiac ship, Superman's ship but overall I still think it would be a much darker (thats a given just based on the suit alone) and less relateable version of Superman. I just want some new news relating to the Man Of Steel already. Get Singer out of limbo. He is either in or out. Get writers and have them matched up with comic book writers as consultants. Even better let them be the writers if it's in their schedules. With the success of The Dark Knight the next Superman film has to be up to a new standard in the super-hero movie genre and for WB as a money maker. After that they need to get Wonder Woman started ASAP.

[bixby]

Even if Burton's Superman was a complete disaster, it would've at least been interesting to watch. Superman Returns was just a dull mess.

I think every single director was either asked to direct Superman at one point, or was signed on.

This is concept art for the suit back when McG was going to direct. I like it.

http://i34.tinypic.com/3532rth.jpg

[Fiend1138]

Another McG concept

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/superman-returns12/mcgsuperman02.jpg

[Dragon]

I would be much more accepting of that than the Burton concepts based on pure looks and recognizability of the character.

[Fiend1138]

yeah but that Burton suit is based on the Death and Resurrection of Supes I believe

[bixby]

When McG and Ratner (*shudder*) were both attached to direct, they were going to use the script written by JJ Abrams. I haven't read it, but I did read the review/summary (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13350) AICN (*shudder again*) posted up. It sounded pretty kooky, but again, pretty interesting.

So, of course, first off, Krypton doesn’t explode.

That’s not where the film starts, though. The film starts with a news broadcast. The anchor on TV looks frazzled, panicked. He tells everyone to get underground, that the Pyramids have been destroyed, that Paris is burning, that most of South America is gone. He blames it all on Superman. There’s a terrible noise, and we whipcut to outside, to the streets of Gotham City (yes, I said Gotham), where a figure in body armor and a ninja’s cloak walks down the center of the street, using breath that is the “force of a thousand hurricanes” to blow buses and cars away, flattening five square blocks in the process.

There’s a WHOOSH in the distance, and the Kryptonian stops. This is TY-ZOR. He’s the same age as Superman, around 30 years old. As he hears the sound getting closer, he smiles, as if this is exactly what he wants.

BAM!

Two red boots hit the pavement in the foreground, “like an NBA MVP coming down from a slam dunk.” We move around the figure, up a very familiar costume, red and blue with a billowing cape. We see the “S” shaped icon. We finally see his face. He’s bruised. He’s bloodied. He’s winded. Whoever this Ty-Zor is... he’s kicking Superman’s ass.

They take off, start to chase each other through the sky. Predictably enough, they both are martial arts experts, and they have a high-speed super-powered martial arts fight in mid-air, kicking each other through buildings on a scale that SUPERMAN II could have never managed. At one point, we follow Superman in close-up as he flies backwards through a building, people scattering to get out of his way. It’s big action. It’s well written. Ty-Zor lures Superman into a NASA hangar that’s made largely of lead. Superman walks into the situation blind, not sure what’s going on. Ty-Zor taunts him over a speaker system, drawing him further in.

Superman finds a giant water testing tank and sees something off-camera that makes him stop. He’s terrified. He collapses in pain. He tries to crawl away but can’t. Ty-Zor taunts him again over the hidden speakers.

TY-ZOR

I want to hear you cry, Kal-El. Like your mother cried. Cry for me... Superman!

And as blisters erupt all over Superman and he cries out in pain, we SHOCK CUT TO:

Naboo.

Seriously. It’s Naboo. Oh, sure, they call it Krypton in the script, but it’s instantly recognizable as the Naboo of EPISODE I. Green fields. Forests nearby. Little girl playing. Everything peaceful.

And then the big war machines come rolling in.



And then, at the end of the script...well, here's a link to the script so you can read for yourself. (http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/Superman%28JJAbrams%29.pdf)

Lex Luthor's an alien, too.

[Dragon]

Ah so it was his script that I was thinking about. Thanks for clearing it up.

[The Ape]

McG directing would have meant Cameron Diaz doing butt shots as Lois Lane....ugh. Out of all the zany concepts floating around before Superman Returns, its the lesser of the evils we could have received.

It looks like Singer is out by recent moves on his part to take on other projects so we are back to waiting at least another four years before another Superman hits up on screen. Too bad....I thought Routh was the only thing really well done in that film and they'll most likely replace him.

[Fiend1138]

Routh was terrible... The only thing he had going was the look. He couldn't act his way out of a paper bag.

I still think they should wait and use the cast of Smallville. Tom Welling > Brandon Routh

[The Ape]

Not sure if I'm willing to throw Routh under the bus just yet. Bad writing and direction can make even the best actors seem all wooden and bland. Ask George Lucas....he does it all the time.

[grimoald]

Routh was bland as hell as Superman, but I thought he actually made a very good Clark Kent.

Welling is worse though. Smallville is such a shitty show that's only redeeming feature is its attractive people (and the Luthors, but just because they elevate terrible material).

[bixby]

Variety's Anne Thompson (http://weblogs.variety.com/thompsononhollywood/2008/08/superman-status.html) reports that Superman: Man of Steel (http://www.comingsoon.net/films.php?id=17288) is in a holding pattern at Warner Bros. Pictures as the studio figures out what to do next. Here's a clip:

They too believe that the last movie didn't break the mold and wound up in some kind of middle limbo. Today I was told that it is a priority at the studio to find the right direction and if Bryan Singer is willing to do that, fine, but if he gets in the way, he may not stay on the project. There are no writers working on a Superman script now. The studio wants to figure it out. "It might be better to start from scratch," one exec admitted.

[HAWK]

At least WB has learned from the Batman franchise that you CAN make a great comic book movie. I'm glad to hear they're willing to wait and get their shit together than rush it and release a steaming pile of shit.

[bixby]

So, I guess that means Routh's out. Praise Jesus.
I'm thinking they'll give it a year or two, let movie audiences completely forget about "Returns" (I saw it in the discount box in Save Mart yesterday, so that shouldn't be too hard) and then get a whole new creative team and cast.

[Philip Lombard]

How about get James Cameron to direct it?

[bixby]

Cameron's probably going to be busy with Avatar and all that new 3d film technology he's pushing. I'd love for him to reinvent this character, but I think he's more interested in his own creations right now.

It'll be interesting, if they do actually dump Routh, to see who's cast as Superman.

[Draven X 23]

They should just do a 'Death of Superman' movie.

[nuclearjew]

And by that, they should just let the idea of a Superman movie die.

[thestronz]

I think it's still a viable franchise, they just have to take it seriously (ie don't cast Kate Bosworth).

I remember the exact moment that I realized Superman Returns was utter shit...when Superman Jr. throws the table at the guy on the boat. I just sat there in disbelief at how stupid it was.

Haven't watched it recently, but I remember not minding Routh, given that Brendan Fraser, Josh Hartnett, *insert asshole* were considered.

[vasili denisov]

TY-ZOR

I want to hear you cry, Kal-El. Like your mother cried. Cry for me... Superman!

Here's a great idea: when you write your dialogue, ask yourself: does this sound like a song lyric by the Scorpions?

[bixby]

Supposedly WB's wanting to get the Green Lantern movie going, so if that happens I'd imagine a Superman reboot wouldn't be for another 2 or 3 years.

They can take as long as they want, just make this character interesting for once. There are tons of ideas out there, but they decided instead to give over 200 million to some fuckers who didn't even know if they were making a sequel to the first two films, a remake, a sequel to Richard Donner's Superman 2, or a "homage" movie. And the people who gave them that money are all saying "Ah, fuck" now.

[Dragon]

I really didn't mind Returns as much as most of you it seems. I have been a Superman fan since I started reading the comics as a kid and caught alot of the subtext in this movie and enjoyed it very much but the overall feeling after first viewing in theatres was not a favorable one for me. I think a reboot might be the best idea. Start from scratch like the exec at WB said. The question is now with all these comic writers wanting to take their stab at it what does WB now do and which way do they go with it? I would like to really see a mix of the recent storyline's in relation to Superman origin. Take some from Birthright, some from Byrne even, some of the other reboots over the years. It can be done in an effective way that will get fans and non fans alike into the seats just like The Dark Knight has done.

[thestronz]

I always just assumed that the Death of Superman story was the best way to go. You could easily make three movies out of the storyline and, treated properly, some amazing visuals could be created. I think I even had the paperback novel version. For example:

Movie 1: Doomsday
Movie 2: 4 other Supermen
Movie 3: real Superman cleans shit up

Now that I've written that down, I don't know if people would really go for 2 & 3, but I still think the Doomsday movie would kick ass. It would be one big build up into the final fight, alla Matrix Revolutions, and then they could visually rape the audience with awesomeness.

[HAWK]

Works for me...but I wonder if the execs/public could stomach it.

[Night Hawk]

Ok this is what i dont get.... People say that Superman Returns was sooo bad... I dont get it... i thought it was very good.. (aside from bosworth as lane)..

I understand the whole "its not following comics" line people throw out there. But as a movie i thought it was very good.

[bixby]

http://www.the-editing-room.com/supermanreturns.html

^Those are my reasons for hating it. It's a shitty film.

I'm not judging it as far as relation to the comics go (I think I read a couple back when I was a kid, at the most), I'm judging it as a film.

For a movie with such an insanely huge budget, that had that long of a production time, it had ZERO good ideas. Not a single damn one.

[CAB]

I liked Returns overall but they put themselves in a corner with the kid storyline. Absolutely not necessary to the story at all. Bosworth was garbage but Routh was decent until the ending where he just seemed like a giant pussy on the kryptonite island...

I think they should get villians like Darkseid and Doomsday and make it more scifi oriened. since the character originated from scifi roots. throw in a Hal Jordan cameo and a Gotham city mention to link movies (GL & Batman). Superman vs Lex Luthor is played out and not satisfying in a movie, give him someone whom he can go toe to toe with...

I think they should go with the Incredible Hulk reboot style. We already know how Supes was raised and how he became Superman... they should start with him already established and then go from there. With that storyline they could go with Brainiac or Doomsday... and then at the end after just barely saving Earth and realizing he cant do it alone, have him fly to Gotham where he would talk to Batman about starting a team to which Batman would say he's not interested but tell him to check out Coast city for someone who might be (cue a Ferris jet with a green glow in the cockpit fly by)

[GreyFox1382]

They should look into adapting the Superman: Birthright series as a possible movie plot. Its got a bit of the Smallville aspect where Clark and Lex knew each other as kids, and a bit of Clark exploring the world as a freelance journalist before joining the Daily Planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Birthright

http://rapidshare.com/files/36629663/Birthright.rar (http://rapidshare.com/files/36629663/Birthright.rar)

[bixby]

They should really redesign Superman's suit. Nothing drastic, he should still be recognizable as Superman, but the design should still look more interesting than the blue/maroon pajamas they chose for Routh to wear. That design on the first page is a good start.

http://i34.tinypic.com/3532rth.jpg

[GreyFox1382]

not bad, reminds me of a version of the suit worn by the Eradicator in the Death/Return of Superman arc

[The Ape]

When we figure out what writer will script whatever adventure Superman will be on that'll decide whether or not it'll be shitty. Zack Synder was already offered and turned down a chance of directing a Superman film.

[The Ape]

Warner Bros. Confirms Superman Reboot
Source: Steelsheen
August 22, 2008


http://superherohype.com/nextraimages/supermanreboot.jpgJust a few days after this article (http://www.superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=7601) was posted, Warner Bros. Pictures Group President Jeff Robinov has told The Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121936107614461929.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) that the studio is going to be reintroducing Superman. We assume this will be similar to how Louis Leterrier's The Incredible Hulk was a reboot of Ang Lee's Hulk. Here is what the article says:

Warner Bros. also put on hold plans for another movie starring multiple superheroes -- known as "Batman vs. Superman" -- after the $215 million "Superman Returns," which had disappointing box-office returns, didn't please executives. "'Superman' didn't quite work as a film in the way that we wanted it to," says Mr. Robinov. "It didn't position the character the way he needed to be positioned." "Had 'Superman' worked in 2006, we would have had a movie for Christmas of this year or 2009," he adds. "But now the plan is just to reintroduce Superman without regard to a Batman and Superman movie at all."

The article also talks about Warner Bros. adapting other DC properties over the new few years. "By 2011, Mr. Robinov plans for DC Comics to supply the material for up to two of the six to eight tent-pole films he hopes Warner Bros. will have in the pipeline by then," it says. Those projects will likely be about single characters at first, and will be darker much like The Dark Knight:

With "Batman vs. Superman" and "Justice League" stalled, Warner Bros. has quietly adopted Marvel's model of releasing a single film for each character, and then using those movies and their sequels to build up to a multicharacter film. "Along those lines, we have been developing every DC character that we own," Mr. Robinov says.

Like the recent Batman sequel -- which has become the highest-grossing film of the year thus far -- Mr. Robinov wants his next pack of superhero movies to be bathed in the same brooding tone as "The Dark Knight." Creatively, he sees exploring the evil side to characters as the key to unlocking some of Warner Bros.' DC properties. "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it," he says. That goes for the company's Superman franchise as well.

The studio is set to announce its plans for future DC movies in the next month. For now, though, it is focused on releasing four comic-book films in the next three years, including a third Batman film, a new film reintroducing Superman, and two movies focusing on other DC Comics characters. Movies featuring Green Lantern, Flash, Green Arrow, and Wonder Woman are all in active development.

We'll let you know as soon as the studio has announced its plans for future DC movies.

[bixby]

Looks like Bryan Singer pulled a David Caruso when he left the X-Men franchise.

[Dragon]

I'm not sure if I like the fact that the word "darker" was used in relation to Superman though as a franchise. Batman yes, certain parts of Green Lantern I could see, Green Arrow maybe even but not Superman. I hope they get this done right and use one of the comic writers that have expressed interest in doing a Superman film. Maybe a Morrisson script? It might have some darkness in it. We shall see.

[bixby]

I think they should take a look at Iron Man, because that movie's tone and overall look is more along the lines of what Superman should be.

And just from a visual standpoint, one of the things that really struck me about "Returns" was just how ass-ugly that movie was. The movie's color scheme was this depressing, sickly grey look, like it was perpetually overcast. It also made everybody in the cast look like shit.

[Dragon]

I think they should take a look at Iron Man, because that movie's tone and overall look is more along the lines of what Superman should be.

And just from a visual standpoint, one of the things that really struck me about "Returns" was just how ass-ugly that movie was. The movie's color scheme was this depressing, sickly grey look, like it was perpetually overcast. It also made everybody in the cast look like shit.

I get what your saying. Taking a bit form Iron Man might be a good idea. I think taking a bit from the story also. By this I mean incorporating hints at a current storyline (Ex. Brainiac in Action) to set up a sequel perhaps? I think it would work.

[Night Hawk]

I love the fact they are talking about making this "darker"... I would love to see a real struggle in this version of superman. Every other superman movie was just him winning because he is superman. I would love him to have a dire situation. An ultimate choice, be forced to choose who to save and who to let die. Make him depressed because he isn't human, have him HATE what he is and what he does, but still feel obligated to perform his duties. Let his choices force him further into depression. That would make a good movie.

[bixby]

Just don't overdo the angst. Have the story carry darker themes, but don't have the lead character be an insufferable whiny bitch the entire time. He was already a myspace blog away from full on emo kid in Superman Returns. That's no fun to watch.

Also, I think we can assume Brandon Routh is now the George Lazenby of Superman actors. One movie and he's dumped.

[grimoald]

I really hate that business logic in creative industries, the 'well they liked this, lets just shove more of it down their throats and make as much money as possible till people get sick of it' approach.

You don't make things dark and gritty just for the sake of it. Most Superheroes, like Green Lantern, Flash and Superman are just inherently unrealistic, you can include some tragedy and try to imbue some believability, but they should be fantastical stories otherwise there is no point. You tell the best story, you don't just make things dark.

Some of the elements of Superman just shouldn't be dark, particularly Clark Kent. Just look at All-Star Superman where the tone is perfect, dealing with the fantastical with a running thread concerning the mortality of a super-man.

[Night Hawk]

Just don't overdo the angst. Have the story carry darker themes, but don't have the lead character be an insufferable whiny bitch the entire time. He was already a myspace blog away from full on emo kid in Superman Returns. That's no fun to watch.

Also, I think we can assume Brandon Routh is now the George Lazenby of Superman actors. One movie and he's dumped.

Ya unfortunately, i thought he was good as supes...

And about the darker themes.. you can keep him torn without him being a whiny bitch... just make him like bruce wayne in TDK instead of like Peter Parker in SM3

He can hate what he is doing, and want to not do it anymore but still do what he has to do. They need to focus on how emotionally draining it is to be a savior.

[thestronz]

Watchin Returns right now, and I agree, Routh isn't bad. The first 40 minutes or so are promising, but then it just dies.

As for going darker, I think that the Death of Superman script would work best here as well. Superman dealing with his own mortality and finally facing a villain the equals him in strength. Done properly, Doomsday could be scary as shit too.

Keep Routh, recast Lois, and bring in some people with real passion about the story.

[bixby]

For it to be a total restart, they have to get rid of everyone. It's the only way. That would be like having Eric Bana play Bruce Banner in The Incredible Hulk--confusing as fuck.

And I agree with Roger Ebert's opinion on Routh--the movie gives him so little dialogue that it makes you think that the people who made it weren't sure if he could act or not.

He doesn't do anything. He gets beat the hell up, lifts a giant rock made of kryptonite (they also didn't explain how he managed to do that, especially after getting stabbed in the fucking ribs with a kryptonite shank) and then looks at Lois like he's going to rape her. He brings nothing to the character. At least Reeves had charisma.

[Night Hawk]

For it to be a total restart, they have to get rid of everyone. It's the only way. That would be like having Eric Bana play Bruce Banner in The Incredible Hulk--confusing as fuck.

Really? but the fact that this movie picked up EXACTLY where the last movie ended makes it a true reboot? I think it was more of a sequel.

[bixby]

They retold the origin story in the opening credits of The Incredible Hulk, and they showed that Banner's reason for being a fugitive was completely different. It was pretty clear it was a reboot and was trying to distance itself from the Ang Lee movie.

[TheImpossibleMan]

I originally thought Returns was okay, but upon repeated viewings I think it's pretty terrible. The acting choices are terrible and the script is just awful, really awful, completely hamfisted and childish. Routh wasn't too bad but is permanently stained by Returns, I don't think anyone will be really that upset by his getting kicked to the curb for a reboot. The directing in the film seemed pretty good in some ways, pretty crap in others (though what the hell they needed such a big budget for I'll never know, both Iron Man and The Dark Knight were made for tens of millions less and are much more visually impressive and had vastly bigger name actors). I really blame the script more than anything, though, man it sucked.

Superman and Green Arrow can be taken in a darker direction but heroes like the Flash and Wonder Woman cannot; Green Lantern has a grim streak to his story but focusing on it misses the point of the character. If every DC film plays out like a Dark Knight redux then these films will bomb both artistically and financially.

[bixby]

The directing in the film seemed pretty good in some ways, pretty crap in others (though what the hell they needed such a big budget for I'll never know, both Iron Man and The Dark Knight were made for tens of millions less and are much more visually impressive and had vastly bigger name actors).

Most of the blame for this can fall at Bryan Singer's feet (and it probably played a pretty large role in him getting the boot.) He filmed sequences in the film that cost millions, that were either completely superfluous or were cut out (and not included in the dvd, either, I guess.)

That flashback sequence to Smallville that was completely out place and served no purpose? Cost something like 10 million to film and was literally only put in because it "looked cool."

There was a "Return to Krypton" sequence that cost a shit ton of money to film, and it still hasn't seen the light of day.

One of the Visual Effects guys who worked on the movie talks about all the bullshit that transpired here. (http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/moviesarc07/index.cgi?read=85763)

I think those X-Men movies made the dude insanely over-confident. Returns in no way feels like a movie from the same guy who directed The Usual Suspects.

[bixby]

Maybe they can bring Kevin Smith back in to finish his take on the character, minus the "giant fucking spider."

vgYhLIThTvk

[TheImpossibleMan]

I read Kevin Smith's proposed script, and it was insanely bad. I describe a lot of things as terrible, but it was UNBELIEVABLE how awful it was. I can't stress this enough. It read like a fourteen year old had written it. Otherworldly terrible.

[bixby]

In the video he describes how he had to write in all of Jon Peters' ideas (giant spider, Braniac fighting polar bears, a Chewbacca character, a gay robot sidekick for Braniac.) So it's not entirely his doing.

[arod2105]

I like Singer's idea of Superman being gone and coming back home, but where he went wrong was he tried to make like Donner, and the end result was pretty much a remake of Superman. I do like Routh as Superman, and he did a great job.

[AlanSmithee]

Has Routh been in anything other than Superman?

[Dragon]

Has Routh been in anything other than Superman?

Denial, a movie coming out called Life Is Hot In Cracktown, tons of TV stuff. MTV's Undressed, had a guest spot on Will and Grace and did some soap opera stuff as well as Christina Aguleria's video "What A Girl Wants".

[bixby]

What a resume!

[Jericho]

That's a shit resume

[Jericho]

dammit

[The Ape]

http://www.bamkapow.com/mark-millar-...y--1812-p.html (http://www.bamkapow.com/mark-millar-talks-about-potential-superman-trilogy--1812-p.html)

Mark Millar doing a G4 interview. Not sure when it was taped obviously before the official announcement of the reboot but its interesting to hear that he want a Lord of the Rings styled shooting and release for Superman. You have to sort of go past the usual blowhard stuff that Millar is known for but it IS nice to hear people discussing Comic properties like actual films which is why I think Nolan's Batman films have been so well received.

He keeps playing coy at the director that apparently he is tied to but has anyone heard anything about who is tying this wagon to his horse? Its obviously not Donner since he mentions him openly and probably wouldn't have it this was the guy who was lobbying for the new Superman franchise....Either way I thought Routh wasn't bad captured Reeve enough to keep it tied to the old but I have a feeling that with this reboot they will cut ties with anything and everything Superman Returns

[bixby]

Millar wrote a bit more about it on his forum:

http://forums.millarworld.tv/index.php?showtopic=83453

My Superman plans are very loosely mentioned here, but I should stress that WB obviously only really care about the director and have made no formal offer to me. My big American director bud is brilliant, though, and said he's only doing this if I'm writing, which may help, and his plan is to do my trilogy idea if we go ahead with this. We'll know very soon if we are indeed the chosen ones and will start working on it next Spring if we're annointed. Shooting would begin the following year, though it's all still up in the air for the next month. Anything could happen to fuck this up over the next few weeks so don't get too excited yet.

PS If it happens it will be the greatest thing ever. This is my life's dream. So cross your fingers, say a prayer and salute mighty Rao next day he rises in the East.

I would've originally guessed he was talking about Zack Snyder, since he's pretty passionate about comics and seems like the kind of guy to lobby hard for a comic writer to be involved in the movie, but he's already said he turned down the job.

Louis Letterier? Michael Bay, maybe (he doesn't seem like he would give a shit about writers, though)?

[steverino]

The problem with Returns is they got the wrong guy for Superman
George Reves-->Christopher Reeves

next should be KEANU REVES

[Fiend1138]

no.

[nuclearjew]

You should like neg him a bunch or something.

[steverino]

Listen, I hate Keanu as much as anybody, but you can't deny the Reeves legacy.

[nuclearjew]

I actually like Keanu Reeves.

[Dragon]

Interesting SPECULATION

October 9, 2008: Is Brandon Routh Still Superman?

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=5551#comments

There's been much speculation over the last month or so regarding whether or not Brandon Routh would be retained in the role of Superman for the next movie, seeing as how Warner Bros. has apparently decided to "reintroduce" the character rather than continue with a sequel to "Superman Returns". LatinoReview.com (http://www.latinoreview.com/news/exclusive-dc-comics-president-gives-superman-update-5511) has posted a report claiming that Paul Levitz, president of DC Comics, told them that Brandon Routh has had meetings both in offices in New York and Los Angeles to talk about the next movie.



At first I thought it was the Apple Martini I was drinking (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=5551#) but I soon realized that I just heard a bombshell go off in my brain! Brandon? He did say Brandon Routh was coming around talking about Superman! Why the hell would they be talking to Brandon if he was not going to be part of the reboot? Because he's still in the mix!!! The truth of the matter is that the way Mr. Levitz made it seem is that they love Brandon as Clark Kent and that he's just a great guy.

Apparently the hold up at the moment is Warner Bros. concentrating on getting Chris Nolan to commit to a third Batman film before pushing forward with Superman.


As of now just a few moments ago another inside source confirmed that yes they are waiting for Chris Nolan to sign the deal with the next Batman, and that they want him to commit to a July 2011 release. If that happens then the following superhero films will be released. Green Lantern Summer 2010
Batman 3 Summer 2011
New Superman reboot Summer 2012

Remember, all the above is just speculation on behalf of LatinoReview.com (http://www.latinoreview.com/news/exclusive-dc-comics-president-gives-superman-update-5511). Nothing has officially been announced in regards to Brandon Routh or a release date.

[Superhuman]

I thought Routh was great as Kent/Superman.

[bixby]

Doubt it. The movie will be a confusing clusterfuck if they bring him back, while simultaneously ingoring "Returns".

[eleveneighteen]

It was the Routh / Singer combo as actor and director that did this thing in. It was BORING and the vibe was TOO FUCKING GAY for a good superhero movie.

Sure lots of superhero movies have gay subtext, but damn, they may as well have had Barbara Streisand record some showtunes for the fucking soundtrack!

[Monster Joe]

These are indeed very gay times, gay subtext in our media is no sign for it though, but how people seem to find the gayness everywhere, and in so many places where it's not.

[bixby]

I didn't notice many gay undertones in "Returns." In Singer's X-Men, yeah, but in Superman it was all about the emo, unrelatable messianic shit.

[Night Hawk]

I dont see anything gay in any of the batmans...


(Schumacher's movies are NOT batman movies, they are just crap)

[Dragon]

stamp on the movie world in a very big way, with a reboot of Superman. Empire (http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=23521) recently talked to Millar, who created the graphic novels that Wanted (http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/FIrd5usAqnYGuy) and the forthcoming Kick-Ass (http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/FIF5pIIJSfLCJJ) are based on, has been pitching huge Superman reboot.

Millar revealed that his version would be an 8-hour, three-film series, with the films to be released in consecutive years. He is apparently working with a "big Hollywood (http://www.movieweb.com/news/NE9VFieaL8MKch#) action director" who he will not reveal at this time, and he calls this new take, "the Magnum Opus of Superman stories."

"It's gonna be like Michael Corleone in The Godfather (http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/FIgUHliiRjWGki) films, the entire story from beginning to end, you see where he starts, how he becomes who he becomes, and where that takes him. The Dark Knight (http://www.movieweb.com/movies/film/FI3TK768yqcI65) showed you can take a comic book property and make a serious film, and I think the studios are ready to listen to bigger ideas now."

Millar got into more detail, adding, "I want to start on Krypton, a thousand years ago, and end with Superman alone on Planet Earth, the last being left on the planet, as the yellow sun turns red and starts to supernova, and he loses his powers."

We'll be sure to keep you posted on any developments in Millar's Superman pitch.


AND

IESB Exclusive: Brandon Routh on Zack and Miri and a Dark Superman

Brandon Routh plays opposite Justin Long in Kevin Smith's ZACK AND MIRI MAKE A PORNO. Their scenes are extremely raunchy (I wouldn't suggest watching this with your mother) but also extremely funny.

http://m1.2mdn.net/1400366/nbcu_changeling_300x250_static.jpg

As Long's boyfriend, Routh is a gay porn actor who is also a high school friend to Miri. Who better to go to when needing porno advice?

The film opens in Friday and the IESB had a chance to speak exclusively with Brandon this week.

He told us how hard it was to keep a straight face when Long would improv in the middle of a scene. Also, he tells us that Dylan Dog is ready to start shooting in mid-January of '09 with Kevin Munroe, plus how does he feel about a “darker” Superman film this time around?

Check out IESB's exclusive interview with Brandon Routh below!

IESB: Zack and Miri was hilarious, I wasn't expecting to see you play that role it was so funny.

Brandon Routh: Awesome, thanks.

IESB: Who called who, I am assuming you are a fan of Kevin Smith's work?

BR: Definitely a fan of his work, they actually called me, I was surprised I got a call from my rep saying, "hey they want you to do a role in a Kevin Smith movie." I was like wow okay!

IESB: Justin Long was hilarious, it must have been hard to keep a straight face with some of this dialogue.

BR: It was, especially because some of it was improv too so I didn't know what he was going to come up with next. But that the fun of it, that gives it an exciting energy when you don't know what you are going to get. I probably ruined a lot of shots laughing but that happens.

IESB: After Superman, you've done several different types of roles, are you looking to do comedy (http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5691&Itemid=99#) again?

BR: Yeah, totally, it's my first real comedy, although I always felt Clark [Kent] to be a really funny guy and a comedic character to play. But, a few months after Zack and Miri I did a romantic comedy called Table for Three which I star in which is out in March with Sophia Bush and Jesse Bradford and Jennifer Morrison which I am really excited about. A couple other ones I did are some smaller films that aren't out yet that are somewhat comedic so it's something that I love and want to do more of.

IESB: Talking about one Kevin, Kevin Smith, let's talk about another Kevin, Kevin Munroe. I love him, we've been talking about Dylan Dog for a while, what's going on?

BR: Well, I think we are actually going to make it now (laughing). I've never said that before, but I will now, all the paperwork is being finalized finally and we are looking really strong for a January, mid-January start I believe, in New Orleans. And, Kevin and I are looking at the script again and he's got his draft and I am excited about it.

IESB: Good, so is it still called Dead of Night or is it Dylan Dog?

BR: Dead of Night is the title, as far as I know, there hasn't been a change in that.

Until they decide to change it next week or something (laughs).

IESB: I was kind of surprised at the role you are playing, the dialogue and everything, just because we figured DC might have or WB might have some kind of clause because of Superman.

BR: No, not that I ever signed. And as far as that is concerned I am on my own as to what I want to do, I haven't heard hide nor hair from them about any of the roles that I do. I confer with them on my schedule because they have a contractual obligation to my time for a certain amount of time until that contract expires at which time I have to say hey I'm going to be unavailable during this time, do you want to exercise your right to use me in another Warner Bros. film. But, that's all the power they have over me right now.

IESB: I know Paul Levitz from DC said recently that he still has hopes that even if there is some kind of mild reboot or the sequel to RETURNS they definitely want you back. Has there been any recent conversations with the DC or Bryan [Singer] or anybody?

BR: Well, the most recent conversation I had was with Paul when I was in New York and we talked about what they are Warner Bros. were thinking and what the situation was and obviously, thankfully, he is still wanting me to be a part of it and I certainly want to be a part of it.

IESB: That's what he said that they are looking forward to bringing you back and we know Bryan has signed on to do it, I don't think that gets enough mention in the press that Bryan has signed on to do the sequel. Have they given you a time frame at all of maybe when?

BR: No, I don't have a time frame. I haven't really heard the studio's stance, I've just heard what's in the media and that every time I see somebody from Warner Bros. they tell me that they are working on it and are going to figure it out soon. But that's about the answer I get.

IESB: As an artist do you prefer smaller films or the bigger films?

BR: I don't typically like one over the other, certain times call for different movies and there are certain things you can do in small movies that you can't do in big movies. You also have an opportunity to do things you haven't done before. Even in this film I starting in November with Samuel L. Jackson and K Moss and Michael Sheen, it's an independent film but it's got these great actors who are aboard and it's a great script and a great director, and we are going to make a really cool film I think.

IESB: What character are you playing in that film?

BR: I am a special agent, I am an FBI agent who is on the case with Carrie Anne Moss who is the lead agent, and we are working counter-terrorism with her and we happen to actually be covering Michael Sheen's character who is the suspected domestic terrorist. So we are called in to be the experts on him, to find these bombs that have been supposedly placed throughout the United States.

IESB: Very interesting, and how long are you going to be on the set of that film?

BR: A couple weeks.

IESB: You've also done some television stuff, like Fear Itself, you produced, do you like the producing angle a bit more? Are we going to see Brandon Routh directing something anytime soon?

BR: I can't put a time line on it but it's certainly something I am interested in. The producing end is great because it's creating your own content and having a say in how things are done. I've worked with Kevin Munroe quite a bit on the script, not writing myself, but ideas and story and how do we fix the story and how do we make it better. And who's good for this role and who's good for that role and creatively it's been great to have that input and work closely with the director and understand his vision and he understands mine and we have a really good rapport. And so, eventually I will find material that I want to develop and create and it's an exciting part of it. It's not just acting in a movie in the whole creation of a movie that is exciting. So, yeah, I've had thoughts of directing one day. We'll see where that goes. I've got a lot to learn about how that all works, being in front of the camera as an actor is part of the learning process and behind as a producer will be a part of that process.

IESB: How about creating comic book properties have you dabbled in that?

BR: I haven't yet, but Kevin and I worked so closely that we might see if we can't create something ourselves. I don't know if it would be a comic book but something along that line, something sci-fi/fantasy/comic type situation. I am a big fantasy guy, I like the Medieval stuff, World of Warcraft and that stuff, so my interest generally lay in that realm but I like sci-fi a lot too so...

IESB: I am assuming you saw The Dark Knight like the rest of the world.

BR: Yeah.

IESB: I am assuming you enjoyed it?

BR: I did, I did, on many levels, it was really amazing. I thought the movie as a whole was a great ride and I watched the behind the scenes of the first one about the fighting style, so I was really paying attention when I watched this one, I wanted to see more fighting because I really saw how strong and powerful the moves are. It was pretty impressive.

IESB: A lot of people don't think Superman can be that dark, or that you could make such a dark Superman film.

BR: I don't know, I don't think the character necessarily has to be darker, I think he is kind of dark in a sense, emotional dark, in Superman Returns, and the movie as a whole was slightly dark, they could have had more prowess in it I suppose, and I think that's one thing that can be done in the sequel, so I don't know how much darker you want to make it necessarily. You make the stakes higher, you make the villain darker, I think that's a way to do it. But I don't think Superman himself needs to be darker. He definitely has to struggle, how does Superman be a part of the world? And does he have to make sacrifices to be a part of that world? To fit in and what purpose does he really play in the world? Those are all kind of dark places to explore. But, I don't think Superman should ever be dark and brooding, that's not is nature. And that's now what people what to see. Like Brainiac or something like that, a situation when the villain is...

IESB: Would that be a good, if you had a choice is that the villain you'd like to see in the next Superman?

BR: I think it would certainly be interesting, I think there are a lot of things you could do with Brainiac. He's been given a lot of power and a lot of different abilities over the years in the comics, as far as I understand. I know that DC is working on a Brainiac storyline that they are excited about and I think combining the two and have that flow between the comics and the movie would be a nice thing. I honestly think there are a lot of interesting things you can do with Brainiac. Controlling people, controlling technology, a lot of cool things.

[bixby]

I love Millar's idea for the ending, but it won't happen. It's too interesting for this character. The Superman character is actually so one note, that any attempt at a more 3 dimensional, or, hell 2-dimensional interpretation is usually met with this weird ass disdain. The fans of the character like him because he's 1 dimensional. I say fuck those whiny cunts, go ahead and reinvent the character, but it probably won't happen.

It reminds me of that t-rex comic, actually:

http://doubleviking.com/dv_images/bksupes/6.jpg

[Dragon]

I don't know.....I'm a Superman fan and I would love to see Millar's idea come to the screen. He seems to be heading in the right direction with his plots and such. I just hope the director isn't Michael Bay in this case.


MORE NEWS AND DIRECT WORDS FROM ROUTH

w73L7_zDKOU

[Dragon]

UGO (http://movieblog.ugo.com/index.php/movieblog/more/bryan_singer_is_not_not_doing_superman_man_of_stee l/) got a chance to grill Bryan Singer about his involvement with a new Superman film. Unfourtunately, his answer is somewhat cryptic.
UGO: Are you officially involved in this talk of the new film?
BS: I am not officially involved in the talk, no.
UGO: But when talk happens they’ll call you.
BS: Well it’s, you know, I have relationships with Warner Brothers and with the character and, and, and, and it’s just the way things work out.
UGO: But you are not divorced from Superman at this point.
BS: No.
From what I can gather, Warner Bros/Legendary Pictures/DC Comics are having preliminary discussions about a new Superman film, but Singer is not involved in those talks. I know the consensus behind the scenes is that Singer shouldn’t direct the next film, and there has even been talk of a complete reboot. I have heard rumors that Singer has a stipulation in his Superman Returns contract that forces Warner Bros to go to him first before seeking other directors. I’ve never been able to confirm this. I am actually one of the few who actually dug Singer’s Superman, and would be very interested to see him go all “Wrath of Kahn” with Man of Steel (as Singer once put it). But I just don’t think its going to happen. I think Warner Bros will eventually talk Singer into an producer role so that both sides don’t loose face. But we’ll see…

[Dragon]

New movie ? + other news.......

http://www.superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=8492#AddComment

Variety (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118005806.html?categoryid=13&cs=1) reports that Warner Bros. and DC Comics have won a favorable ruling in the suit filed by the heirs of "Superman" co-creator Jerome Siegel. Here are some excerpts from the ruling:

In a decision announced Wednesday, U.S. Judge District Court Judge Stephen G. Larson found that the license fees the studio paid to corporate sibling DC Comics didn't represent "sweetheart" deals as they weren't below fair market value. That means the heirs will be able seek profits only from DC Comics -- which earned $13.6 million from Warner Bros. for the 2006 release of "Superman Returns" -- rather than from Warner Bros. as well.

The judge, who conducted a 10-day bench trial, also noted that Warner Bros. chairman Alan Horn had testified that he hopes to make another "Superman" movie but added that the property wasn't under development at the studio, that no script had been written and that the earliest another "Superman" pic could be released would be in 2012.

Toberoff also asserted in a written statement that the Siegel heirs and the heirs of co-creator Joe Shuster will own the entire Superman copyright in 2013.

"The Court pointedly ruled that if Warner Bros. does not start production on another Superman film by 2011, the Siegels will be able to sue to recover their damages," Toberoff added.

You can read the full article here (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118005806.html?categoryid=13&cs=1).http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=6601#comments

July 9, 2009 Still Happening? http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/characters/who-images/Green_Lanterns-tb.JPG (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/characters/who-images/Green_Lanterns.jpg) Months ago there was speculation that Superman (or more correctly,Clark Kent) would be making a cameo appearance in the up-coming "Green Lantern" movie[/URL]. MTV's Splashpage caught up with the film's co-writer Marc Guggenheim to see if the cameo was still part of their plans...


"Honestly, it changes on a daily basis. Whatever information I gave you today would be obsolete in a week, and maybe come back again in two weeks," said Guggenheim. "And even if it wasn't in flux at the script stage, it would still be constantly in flux because you can film it, put it in the original cut, and eventually it could end up on the editing room floor." However, he didn't deny that the Superman's alter ego would be making an appearance during the big-screen debut of "Green Lantern" - so there's still hope for fans hoping to get Hal Jordan and Clark Kent on the same screen at the same time.
"I will say, all the Easter Eggs and the cameos that I put in, I couldn't even begin to predict at this point which ones will stay and which ones will go," he said. "I'll be as interested as anyone else to see what we end up keeping and losing by the time the picture is actually locked... and that's pretty far away from now."

[URL="http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/07/08/a-superman-cameo-in-green-lantern-movie-writer-marc-guggenheim-weighs-in-on-rumor/"]You can read the complete report at MTV's website (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/news.php?readmore=6601#).

[ADD]

Is the last guy to play Superman coming back or will we have yet another re-cast in the super hero world?

[CAB]

^ Doutbful, Brandon Routh's contract just expired so either they re sign him (unlikely) or recast. I thought he was good but Singer basically made him play Christopher Reeve instead of Clark Kent/Superman.

[ADD]

That's too bad. I liked Routh as well.

[arod2105]

I thought Routh did a great job playing Clark Kent/Superman. I would like to see him come back and do the role again.

[Dragon]

Millar reveals his "big name director"

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/07/19/which-big-director-was-interested-in-directing-mark-millars-superman/


Although I would have been interested to see what they would have done......big name? really?

[HAWK]

I liked Layer Cake but never saw Stardust. Wouldn't call him "big" though.

[Dragon]

I'm in the same boat here never saw Stardust either but "big" nah not really.

[TMJ]

He's big. He was about to direct THOR for Marvel. His superhero movie KICK-ASS is about to hit Comic-Con, and when it does, you'll hear plenty more about him and the film. Stardust was great. Layer Cake was great. He'd be an excellent choice!

[Celtickliq]

eh. Big for a Superman reboot movie? No way.

Stardust was great but a flop at the box office. Layer Cake is so insanely over rated that it makes me worry about people who are floored by the film. And the only reason why KICK ASS is in the news is because there is nothing to get half way excited about at Comic Con this year.

Though impossible at this point, just have Singer come back. I still dont get what was wrong with Superman Returns. and yes, blah blah blah emo Superman lifted a rock at the end.

[Dragon]

He's big. He was about to direct THOR for Marvel. His superhero movie KICK-ASS is about to hit Comic-Con, and when it does, you'll hear plenty more about him and the film. Stardust was great. Layer Cake was great. He'd be an excellent choice!


I'm well aware of who he is. I enjoyed Layer Cake and was excited to see what he would have done with X-Men. Hopefully Kick-Ass will be good but the "big name" I don't see.

[Archetype]

eh. Big for a Superman reboot movie? No way.

Stardust was great but a flop at the box office. Layer Cake is so insanely over rated that it makes me worry about people who are floored by the film. And the only reason why KICK ASS is in the news is because there is nothing to get half way excited about at Comic Con this year.

Though impossible at this point, just have Singer come back. I still dont get what was wrong with Superman Returns. and yes, blah blah blah emo Superman lifted a rock at the end.

Didn't sink in at first just how bad it was. But pretty much everything was wrong with it. The villain, Lois Lane, Cyclops, his son, the lack of any action, no real obstacle, some weird rock city, etc. It was overall just a lame movie. Who wants to see Superman struggle to save a plane, really?

Also, how was Stardust a flop? It doubled it's budget and broke a hundred mil.

[Celtickliq]

I dont think having a super powered villain would make a Superman film anything more than a popcorn film. Singer was going for something more than that. I liked it.


As for Stardust, 38 million domestic. Opened under 10 million and placed 4th for the weekend. That is a domestic flop. its production budget was 70 million not including marketing and it made 38 million in its USA run. You cant say it was successful simply because it made some money overseas. Studios never say how much the marketing cost overseas was.

[TMJ]

I agree with Celt. I've really come to love Superman Returns. Initially, I was disappointed. But it's so damn reverent for the character and his world. There's such beauty. Graphic novel beauty. Scenes that are more iconic than Donner's efforts. Or at least on par. Spacey was fine as Lex. The production values were through the roof. I'd happily give Singer another chance, but he needs to direct someone else's script. Like Kevin Smith.

[Clark Kent]

We ain't gonna see another Superman movie in a long, long time. Superman Returns dug the franchise out of its grave only to shove it back in again.

[Duncndisorderly]

We ain't gonna see another Superman movie in a long, long time. Superman Returns dug the franchise out of its grave (took a big kryptonite coloured shit on it) only to shove it back in again.

fixed