AL East: The O's, the best last place team in baseball!

[The Dude]

Will the Rays hold on for the division? I don't think so.

[Kopek]

They will.

[Pollo]

Will the Rays hold on for the division? I don't think so.

heck, I think the Angels are rooting for the Rays to get the WC even though they've owned the Red Sox 8-1 in season play.

but I think the Rays are going to have a tough time since they mostly have road games for the remainder of the season, and they're only 26-29 on the road. at home, they're impressively 45-17.

[The Dude]

I wish the sox could send Fuckholz down, but they don't really have anyone to call up other than Bartolo Calzone or David Pauley. Problems with that is that Bartolo isn't ready yet and with Wake going to the DL they already need someone

[kareyn01]

On a related note, the Sox called up Charlie Zink to replace Wakefield while he's on the 15 day DL. Zink is a knuckleballer. I think this might be the first time in history that a team has called up a knuckleballer to replace another one. Hell, they might be the only two knuckleballers left in the game.

[TheImpossibleMan]

On a related note, the Sox called up Charlie Zink to replace Wakefield while he's on the 15 day DL. Zink is a knuckleballer. I think this might be the first time in history that a team has called up a knuckleballer to replace another one. Hell, they might be the only two knuckleballers left in the game.
Seattle's RA Dickey is also a knuckleballer.

[wacker]

Maybe it will be somewhere in this thread where the Jays finally return to the playoffs.

[Lone Wolf]

Seattle's RA Dickey is also a knuckleballer.

Isn't he more of a half assed knuckleballer though?

I don't know why more people don't learn the pitch

[Stax]

Wow. Big Papi hits 2 3 run home runs and the Sox score 10 in the first, but need a late Youkalis HR to eke out a 19-17 win.

Meanwhile Mo continues a messy regression down a bit, giving up a 3 run home run to tie things up again.

[Penguin Rick]

Thank God the Yanks pulled that one out.

[sockmop]

TB will finish 4 games over Boston. Just putting that out there.

[Papelgod]

I was completely against the Paul Byrd acquisition until I saw the awfulness that was Charlie Zink tonight.

At least it's not Mark Redman, Jarrod Washburn, or Steve Trachsel, right?

[ADD]

Want Jason Marquis? Yeah. I didn't think so.

[Stax]

Paul Byrd for cash or a PTBNL is not bad at all. It's like the Fatolo Colon deal, worst case he eats up a AAA spot for you and I'd rather have a proven starter in a pinch then some random AAA guy.

[Papelgod]

While Wake is hurt, I can definitely live with a Beckett/Matsuzaka/Lester/Byrd/Colon rotation. Bartolo is apparently progressing well with his rehab, and he was looking pretty good before getting hurt.

Zink will probably get another chance in September... he didn't look too bad before getting blown up in the fifth last night.

I do think Clay should be shut down for the season, and they should just try to work everything out with him in the offseason. I knew there would be growing pains with him, I didn't think they would be this bad though.

I wonder who has overall been more underwhelming so far, Buchholz or Hughes?

[Stax]

Hughes. No doubt, IMO.

[Penguin Rick]

So... that August surge would be pretty good to come right about now.

[shdaow]

Maybe it will be somewhere in this thread where the Jays finally return to the playoffs.

If we don't make progress soon, Aaron Hill and Accardo get shut down for the season. We blew it with Shannon Stewart (at least Reed gave us defence), and now with Tampa Bay in the mix, I don't see how we'll ever see the post-season any time soon... so depressing.

[ADD]

Just remember you're still the best team in Canada! Oh...

[mudokon485]

Yankees will win the division, wait til every1 gets healthy

[Kopek]

Uhhh, no.


New favorite term: Youkilicious

[Stax]

Yankees will win the division, wait til every1 gets healthy

I laugh in your face, and I'm a diehard Yankees fan.

[Draven X 23]

But no one is going to get healthy. Even the owner has pretty much said they are done.

[Stax]

Uhhh, no.


New favorite term: Youkilicious

I love his Moneyball name, the "Euclid, Greek God of Walks"

[Snatch]

Matusz signs.

Yankees first rounder tells them to go fuck themselves.

[Penguin Rick]

I'm throwing in the white towel on the Yanks season.

:(

[Kopek]

Most smart people did that a while ago.

[Penguin Rick]

Fucking fuck. The Yanks load the bases with one out in the 8th, get no runs. Got runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs in the 9th, and get no runs.

You aren't going to win games hitting like that, even if you are playing the fucking Royals.

[Snatch]

What if the Yankees finish last?
EDIT:
Not that the Orioles will catch them, but what if?

[Draven X 23]

They can sign big name players and not have to give up a #1 draft pick.

[Pollo]

yeah, you definitely know they'll be in the running to get Sabathia or Sheets, although there are inclinations CC wants to go to West Coast, preferably in the NL. Dodgers, anyone?

[Stax]

Yankees aren't doing shit this year without the Sox collapsing. Buying a pitcher will be nice, but someone besides Joba needs to step up from in house.

[Pollo]

do the Yankees have any other pitching prospects? Kennedy is decent, but not amazing.

[Stax]

do the Yankees have any other pitching prospects? Kennedy is decent, but not amazing.

As far as I'm concerned I agree with BP's mantra, "There is no such thing as a pitching prospect." If you aren't a polished college pitcher who heads to the majors very quickly then you are getting changed enough in the minors that you can't predict very effectively who will succeed and who won't.

[BooBooBear]

Yankees aren't doing shit this year without the Sox collapsing. Buying a pitcher will be nice, but someone besides Joba needs to step up from in house.

The Red Sox are used to collapsing. Give it time. :)

[Stax]

The Red Sox are used to collapsing. Give it time. :)

:/ Even if the Sox did fall apart enough for us to overtake them (which I highly doubt) we'd still have to beat out whoever the 2nd team from the Central ends up as (White Sox or Twins). There's a reason BP lists our PECOTA-adjusted playoffs shot at 5.85059%. Blech.

[TheImpossibleMan]

Eventual split between Jeter and Yankees inevitable? (http://www.bugsandcranks.com/new-york-yankees/edward-valentine/jeter-a-lifetime-yankee-maybe/)

[Stax]

Please. The second commenter got it right.

Sounds like someone had a slow news day and tried to drum up a story where there really was none.

GASP, a Post story with little source material saying something controversial/shocking about New York sports?

[TheImpossibleMan]

Please. The second commenter got it right.



GASP, a Post story with little source material saying something controversial/shocking about New York sports?
Yeah, but that fifth commentor sounds really sexy.

[Stax]

Yeah, but that fifth commentor sounds really sexy.

Sounds like he likes dudez

[Penguin Rick]

No wonder TiM likes him.

[comicfan]

I think pretty much anyone can win the east at the moment. All of the teams have great prospects of collapsing... though my Jays will never make it past 2nd in the division.

[TTT]

what the shit happened to GMF?

[Stax]

I think pretty much anyone can win the east at the moment. All of the teams have great prospects of collapsing... though my Jays will never make it past 2nd in the division.

I think you're wrong. Except about the Jays.

[comicfan]

Well, I have been known to be wrong... most of the time.....

[TTT]

Ramon Hernandez is dumm

[Kopek]

Looks like BJ Upton has got Manny Soriano disease.

[hoosiers23]

Who says Kennedy is decent? He really hasn't shown any potential, or any nice starts. The comparisons to Mike Mussina are definitely premature. Yanks in general can't seem to get it right...when they pitch, they can't hit, when they hit, they can't pitch. They need to kill this 6-game road trip before Boston comes back to town...

[Jason]

I would like to see the Yankees get the wild card or the division but it just isnt happening. I'm not a huge Yankees fan, but I live in Maine and I can't stand the Red Sox and all the band wagon fans around here. I don't mind them as much now that they dumped Manny. The Yankees will turn it around next season if Wang and Chamberlin are healthy, and if they pick up atleast one good SP. It hurt to lose Giese too, he's pitched really well.

[Penguin Rick]

Geise deserves a spot in the rotation if he wasn't on the DL.

[redsox39]

Jason Bay is a God!

[kareyn01]

Can somebody run over Clay Buchholz with the team bus? I realize that there are a lot of injuries on the pitching staff, but its time to shut Buchholz down for the rest of the year, or at the very least move him to the bullpen and move Masterson back into the rotation. This is the second straight huge early lead that he's blown. You can't be in a pennant race with a guaranteed loss every fifth day.

[Fletch]

Well, at least the Pirates were good at something this year...and that thing was arming the AL east for the pennant race. Hope you guys are enjoying Bay and Nady.

[Draven X 23]

Whats Nady have to do with a pennant race? Did the Pirates deal someone good to TB?

[Pollo]

Can somebody run over Clay Buchholz with the team bus? I realize that there are a lot of injuries on the pitching staff, but its time to shut Buchholz down for the rest of the year, or at the very least move him to the bullpen and move Masterson back into the rotation. This is the second straight huge early lead that he's blown. You can't be in a pennant race with a guaranteed loss every fifth day.

wish fullfilled:

Red Sox manager Terry Francona said after Wednesday's game that the team will send Clay Buchholz to Double-A Portland.

Buchholz is 0-4 with a 9.64 ERA in his last five appearances, and he hasn't made a quality start since April, so the team will send him down to get "a renewed start." Boston is off on both Thursday and Tuesday, so Tim Wakefield could be ready the next time Boston needs a fifth starter.

[Fletch]

Whats Nady have to do with a pennant race? Did the Pirates deal someone good to TB?

At the time of the trade they were close at least.

[kareyn01]

wish fullfilled:

[crying, holding statue] "I'm so happy!"

Seriously, its about god damn time. I would have done a better job as the Sox's fifth starter this year than Buchholz.

[Spoonman]

wake should be back next week, but i wouldnt mind if micheal bowdon came up to get a start

love how remy said ass on air the other night and there was total silence in the booth for a mintue

[TTT]

Clay Buchholz shits in his bed every fifth night.

[nuclearjew]

Clay Buchholz shits in his bed every fifth night.
Way to support your young players. Good job!

[Spoonman]

Way to support your young players. Good job!

constructive criticism, thats all that is

[TTT]

seriously. I still love the guy, but he's clearly not right at the moment. and by "moment," I mean "season."

[Stax]

Carl Pavano starting tommorrow. Better watch out, don't want to get any tendons on you as they explode from his body mid-injury.

[Snatch]

I hate when MLBTv blacks shit out.

[nuclearjew]

Yaz made it thru triple-bypass surgery. Hopefully he'll be ready for his September call-up, the Sox could sure use his bat.

[kareyn01]

Yaz made it thru triple-bypass surgery. Hopefully he'll be ready for his September call-up, the Sox could sure use his bat.

His bat? Hell, he'd be an upgrade in the bullpen. I'm honestly not even sure I'm kidding at this point.

Is it just me, or is this season a mirror-image of 2005?

[Pollo]

His bat? Hell, he'd be an upgrade in the bullpen. I'm honestly not even sure I'm kidding at this point.

Is it just me, or is this season a mirror-image of 2005?

which was the season the White Sox won the WS, yes? if so, then absolutely ... hitting was there, but pitching was very erractic -- especially from that dreadful bullpen.

[nuclearjew]

They shouldn't have let Eric Gagne go!

[Papelgod]

His bat? Hell, he'd be an upgrade in the bullpen. I'm honestly not even sure I'm kidding at this point.

Is it just me, or is this season a mirror-image of 2005?

I interned there in '06 and I'm reminded of that dreadful season more than anything else. The team started off strong, and looked playoff-bound, and then absolutely fell apart at the end due to injuries and we started relying on retreads such as Kevin Jarvis to help us finish the season out because we had no starting pitching to speak of.

Now, the team is falling apart due to injuries and we're relying on retreads such as Paul Byrd and soon enough Jason Lane to help us finish out the season.

[TTT]

this season reminds me of '06 much more than '05, but more than anything it reminds me of the scene it Hotshots where the guys plane is falling apart piece by piece until he crashes onto the aircraft carrier with nothing but a fuselage. The Sox are falling apart man-by-man, piece by piece. It's really painful to watch them limp to the finish line. At least Dustin Pedroia is turning into the most awesome player in the universe, which is fun to watch.

[Draven X 23]

Who'd have thought the Orioles would have 3 players batting over .300 this season?

Not I and I am a hometown fan.

I figured Markakis would do it. But I did not figure on Huff and Roberts too.

[Stax]

So apparently Pettitte has to throw it right down the middle to get a strike call.

[Hanover Fist]

Rumor over on MLB rumor central has it that Tigers placed Rogers on waivers today and both Yankees and Red Sox are attempting to acquire him. I haven't seen anything on the Tigers team site yet, so I have no verification.

[Penguin Rick]

RIP Yankees 2008 campaign.

13 straight playoff appearances is still damn impressive.

[Snatch]

Here's a question.

When the Yankees sign multiple Type A free agents, will they lose the compensatory pick they're getting for not getting their first rounder?

[BooBooBear]

13 straight playoff appearances is still damn impressive.

Ain't that the truth.

[TTT]

hey Yankees, enjoy your shiny new gay stadium.

[BooBooBear]

hey Yankees, enjoy your shiny new gay stadium.

Have you ever killed a rat with your switch blade at Fenway Park? :D

[Pollo]

Here's a question.

When the Yankees sign multiple Type A free agents, will they lose the compensatory pick they're getting for not getting their first rounder?

I believe compensatory picks are rewarded to teams for losing Type A/B agents, so if the Yankees lose any of those types of free agents, then they can be entitled to get a sandwich pick.

[Penguin Rick]

hey Yankees, enjoy your shiny new gay stadium.

I hope the Twins/Chi Sox take the WC.

[Pollo]

I hope the Twins/Chi Sox take the WC.

I wouldn't take my chances on that with the way the Rays and Red Sox are playing right now. I was worried about the Rays' chances hitting the road for the most part down the stretch, but they don't seem to be phased at all.

the Angels, on the other hand, have looked shaky with their pitching after that was the part of their club they excelled at prior to the Tex deal, but now it's looked iffy. the Rays and Twins played them well in recent series.

[TTT]

Dustin Pedroia should be voted Master of the Universe.

The guy is a fucking baseball killing machine.

[Stax]

Dustin Pedroia should be voted Master of the Universe.

The guy is a fucking baseball killing machine.

He really is. De Rosa's too old to count on his numbers lasting, so he's probably like the 4th best 2B in the game only a bit behind Utley, Uggla, and Kinsler (and Pedroia's only 25).

[TTT]

I'd take Pedroia over Uggla any day, and Pedroia and Kinsler are statistically neck and neck. Pedroia is like a little Pete Rose, minus the compulsive gambling.

[Stax]

Why Pedroia over Uggla? I mean, he's three years older, but other than that... Do you see Pedroias defense as that much better than Ugglas?

EDIT - Actually looking at it Uggla is surprisingly bad at drawing walks for someone with his power.

[eightkid]

The Yanks are a team of DHs with a staff full of 4th and 5th starters. Wang is a 1 or 2 and Rivera is Rivera. I am enjoying their season so far.

[Stax]

The Yanks are a team of DHs with a staff full of 4th and 5th starters. Wang is a 1 or 2 and Rivera is Rivera. I am enjoying their season so far.

Wang, Joba, and reborn Moose is a decent 1-2-3. Problem is 2/3rds of that isn't pitching. Keep in mind this article: (http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8011)

[talking about the Yankees making a run to the playoffs]

To do that, the Yankees have to score more runs. For all of the talk of how the failure of the Yankees' young pitchers—who, we're often reminded, could have been traded for Johan Santana—have been , the Yankees' run prevention has been fine. The Yanks are seventh in the league in runs allowed, middle of the pack, on pace to allow 748 runs, 29 fewer than they did a season ago, which is a bit more than just the overall decline in scoring would explain.

Let's chart this, actually


spacer- RS RA
PECOTA 881 724
Sheehan 891 744
Actual* 793 748
*pace

The Yankees' run prevention has been right in line with expectations. Even though Philip Hughes and Ian Kennedy combined to allow 60 runs in 61 2/3 innings, leaving Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson to combine for 100 runs allowed themselves in 162 2/3—folks, that's more than a quarter of the Yankees runs allowed by four pitchers in less than a fifth of the innings pitched—the Yankees' overall run prevention has been fine. The development of Jose Veras, Edwar Ramirez, and Joba Chamberlain, along with the comeback year by Mike Mussina, have all cancelled out the back end of the rotation's failure to be an asset. The Yankees' pitching is not the reason they're down to a 1-in-40 shot at October.

No, it's that other column. The Yankees are going to score 100 fewer runs than expected, and again, that's not just run context. That's Robinson Cano and Melky Cabrera failing miserably at developing. That's Jorge Posada missing 400 PA. That's Hideki Matsui missing 200 PA. That's Derek Jeter's worst season in a decade. Even Alex Rodriguez's .307/.395/.581 line, which places him among the league leaders in various advanced metrics, is sullied by his ineffectiveness in high-leverage situations. That's not a mark against his talent or his character by any means, but his splits show that his production hasn't impacted games as much as it might—certainly not as much as it did last season. In one of the quirkiest pieces of data of the year, Rodriguez has just three runs batted in, and just one teammate batted in, after the seventh inning this year. Those figures were 31 and 19 a year ago.

The Yankees have scored 641 runs with offensive statistics that could be expected to produce 665; that 24-run shortfall reflects a team-wide failure in high-leverage situations: their performance with runners on base and with runners in scoring position is less than their overall performance by a significant amount. Combined with the failures of their young position players and the critical injury to Posada—itself costing the Yankees 30 runs and three wins, minimum—the lack of high-leverage performance has been part of what looks to be a massive shortfall in runs scored. If the Yankees miss the playoffs, point to the bats, not the arms.

[TheImpossibleMan]

I've felt2 for a while now that we're in an incredible age of 2B, and Pedroia is a big part of that. Utley, Uggla, Pedroia, Kinsler, and Roberts are all legit superstars in their own right, nevermind that they play a defensive-intense position. Uggla is clearly the worst of the five, but not by a ton, while Utley is clearly the best, though only by a little, and there is only a small amount of production on offense and defense separating the top four. All five should be excellent players for a long, long time.

[BooBooBear]

The Yanks are a team of DHs with a staff full of 4th and 5th starters. Wang is a 1 or 2 and Rivera is Rivera. I am enjoying their season so far.

Hopefully your Mets won't choke again this September. :D:p:)

[nuclearjew]

http://i36.tinypic.com/jg15w4.jpg

[Stax]

http://i36.tinypic.com/jg15w4.jpg

Yupyup. However it seems odd to make the clutch score the one with leverage removed. When people talk about clutchness they always complain about guys who can hit home runs in the first 5 innings (low leverage) but not late in the game when it's truly 'clutch', you'd think 'clutch' as a stat would use leverage.

EDIT - Or wait, is that what it does? I never really got much into WPA as it assumes a level of control over when you get your hits that doesn't really exist much.

[Kopek]

Don't need charts to tell you how piss poor A-rod is when a game is on the line and he needs a hit for the club. Just watch the game. He's a classic Charlie Brown putting everything into a home run swing when all he needs his a carefully placed single to drive in a run.

[TheImpossibleMan]

Late 90's:Shortstops::Late 2000's:Second Basemen

[Stax]

Don't need charts to tell you how piss poor A-rod is when a game is on the line and he needs a hit for the club. Just watch the game. He's a classic Charlie Brown putting everything into a home run swing when all he needs his a carefully placed single to drive in a run.

Except when he is the best player in the game, which is basically every year he's in the league.

Again, my issue with WPA is it adds value based on the game situation. While I understand the purpose of that (to look at so called 'clutchness') a hit in the 4th is the same as a hit in the 8th, fundamentally, and it's been shown that clutch hitting/hitting with men on base is not a repeatable skill.

[TheImpossibleMan]

Rodriguez is so good people take his greatness for granted.

[Draven X 23]

I believe compensatory picks are rewarded to teams for losing Type A/B agents, so if the Yankees lose any of those types of free agents, then they can be entitled to get a sandwich pick.

Type A/B Free Agents have to be offered Arbitration. The problem there is that some of the players could accept. So they would be stuck with them and a bigger contract.

[Jason]

Rodriguez is so good people take his greatness for granted.

Agreed. Not to mention he is arguably more scrutinized than any other player. He does have a history of choking in the post season, but he's obviously helping teams get to the post season with MVP seasons.

[Stax]

Agreed. Not to mention he is arguably more scrutinized than any other player. He does have a history of choking in the post season, but he's obviously helping teams get to the post season with MVP seasons.

He hits for virtually the same line as his regular season line in the postseason. And he far outhit Jeter, Captain Clutch, in 2004 (the most important postseason the Yankees have played in while ARod was there). And the sample size of the postseason is so small anyways that really any judgement based on the postseason is silly.

[awonderful]

The Yankees sucking dirty cock is not Arods fault. Especially since clutch hitting doesnt really exist. Well at least Bill James doesnt believe it unless your name is big papi then clutch hitting exists.

[Stax]

The Yankees sucking dirty cock is not Arods fault. Especially since clutch hitting doesnt really exist. Well at least Bill James doesnt believe it unless your name is big papi then clutch hitting exists.

No, actually. By the measures I've read while Big Papi has a decent clutch score that was almost entirely built in two seasons (not surprisingly 2 of his best all around offensive seasons, so of course he produced more 'in the clutch') and every other year was negative.

[IHaveNone]

Unfortunately I think The Rays will hold on and I think that the Yankees will miss the playoffs for the fist time in a long time. I am a diehard Yankee fan and I am very dissapointed in their season. It's one thing to lose but another to not come to play up to your ability every day. They should all be embarrased.

[Kopek]

Thanks for coming to that conclusion that everyone else had a few months ago. Blind faith be damned.

[IHaveNone]

Some people like to hold out until it is mathematically impossible. I'm not that naive.

[hoosiers23]

I'm totally that naive. When they were 8.5 down with 16 to play, I still thought the yanks had a chance. Losing 2 out of 3 to Seattle never helps. Ok, now that it's 9 games down with 13 to play, I fold.

[awonderful]

you should of given up the day cashman though hughes and kennedy were going to do anything this year..oh and not trading for johan

[Stax]

you should of given up the day cashman though hughes and kennedy were going to do anything this year..oh and not trading for johan

You're a retard. If you think you or anyone else wouldn't be playing the "Oh there go the Yankees, buying a big free agent rather than holding onto prospects" card had that happened you're a retard. Cashman made a reasonable gamble, that two (three if you include someone like Melky who would've been included) highly rated prospects would develop, and the market on Johan was cooling at the time anyways (it seemed like the Sox and Yanks were willing to just have a money war after this season for a fresh contract). You can't judge a decision by unforseeable outcomes, he made a reasonable baseball decision and this time it didn't work out.

[awonderful]

Hughes and kennedy are prospects. Johan 100% proven commodity. And it was forseeable that the yankees would finally miss the playoffs. The one guy it would of been ok to trade your prospects for would have been johan. Melky sucks dick. Only blind yankee fans think he was anything more than a 4th outfielder. Should of sold him while his stock was high. I never said Hughes and kennedy are shit but i did say expecting anything from them this year was idiotic. Johan was worth 16 win shares for the mets this year. Its reasonable that johan would of won at least 8 more games for the yankees this season. Putting them in the wildcard at the least.

[Stax]

Again, you are a retard as you are using results from a season of play as proof of the effectiveness of a decision at the start. Yes Johan is a proven commodity but they'd be forced to give him another famous Yankee contract lasting too long and paying too much. Had any of Kennedy/Hughes/Melky/Cano matured even close to a normal amount it would've been a sensible choice.

[Stax]

Johan Santana projected 2008 WARP by PECOTA: 7.5 (actually at 6.4 right now, so likely to come in lower)

Melky Cabrera projected 2008 WARP: 5.0
Ian Kennedy projected 2008 WARP: 3.5
Phillip Hughes projected 2008 WARP: 3.2
Combined projected WARP of trade pieces: 11.7

So even with some pretty sizeable failure by those players it was a reasonable assumption that you'd get equivalent value out of them for far less money. Project out for 7 years (how far PECOTA projects out and about the likely length of the contract Johan would get)...

Johan projected 7 year WARP: 39.6
Trade pieces projected 7 year WARP: 76.3

[awonderful]

#1 i am not basing anything on this season of play. I did say that it was forseeable that the yankees would miss the playoffs for already stated reasons. The season of play just confrims what I had believed all along. You go into a season with 2 reliable starting pitchers(pettite/wang) 1 iffy(mussina ) and hughes and kennedy in the AL east you are not going to be succesful. You are actually the retarded one because you didnt read what i had stated.

Brian cashman is not a great GM. He is average. And being average got him duped by epstein an excellent gm. Listen you were going to spend a ton of money on johan or CC. And now you get CC an inferior pitcher whos arm is being ridden hard by a team that is not planning on resigning him in a contract year. You do the math. This guy is fat and lazy and is pitching for his payday, as he should. But id ratehr spent the 25 mil a year and prospects on johan who is famed for his bulldog mentality then 25 mil a year on a pitcher who wont be motivated during his contract until the last year of it. It would of given you a better shot at the playoffs. And who cares if the yankees spend a shitload of money. they are the premier sports franchise in the US they are expected to do so.

[Snatch]

You're saying the Yankees would've had to trade all four to get him. I don't think that's the case.

Stax, listen, the Yankees don't need cost effective 5th starters and fourth outfielders. Cabrera and Kennedy are fucking pointless to them. The only guy of any worth out of those three is Hughes.

The Yankees spend 700 million a fucking week. They can afford to get some douchebag to come in and be their piece of shit fourth outfielder.

What IS important to the Yankees, is acquiring as much top flight talent as possible.

[awonderful]

Johan Santana projected 2008 WARP by PECOTA: 7.5 (actually at 6.4 right now, so likely to come in lower)

Melky Cabrera projected 2008 WARP: 5.0
Ian Kennedy projected 2008 WARP: 3.5
Phillip Hughes projected 2008 WARP: 3.2
Combined projected WARP of trade pieces: 11.7

So even with some pretty sizeable failure by those players it was a reasonable assumption that you'd get equivalent value out of them for far less money. Project out for 7 years (how far PECOTA projects out and about the likely length of the contract Johan would get)...

Johan projected 7 year WARP: 39.6
Trade pieces projected 7 year WARP: 76.3




Prospects are prospects. I love reading sabermetrics also but you go into a season believing that and you end up with a good team like the Oakland A's in a weaker division. The AL east demands a little more than that. Sure theo has his Youklis and pedroia type guys but the sox also pay(ed) their sps a shitload of money. I just think the starting rotation is where the yankees blew it this year

7 years down the line hughes and kennedy could also end up being very good #2 starters but I dont think a majority of baseball thought that hughes was ever going to be as good as johan. The sample size is waaay to small and extrpolating minor league stats is foolish because there are a plenty of quadruple A ball palyers out there who cant ever become a mlb star but dominate aaa comepetition.

[Stax]

You're saying the Yankees would've had to trade all four to get him. I don't think that's the case.

Melky, Kennedy, and Hughes are three players and absolutely would've had to be traded.

Stax, listen, the Yankees don't need cost effective 5th starters and fourth outfielders. Cabrera and Kennedy are fucking pointless to them. The only guy of any worth out of those three is Hughes.

So our OF would be Abreu (old, almost out of his contract), Damon (old, recently injured, can't field worth a damn), and Matsui (old, can't field)? At least prior to the deals made this year, yes.

Would I prefer Johan Santana at this point? Yes of course. But if we accept that the Yankees should simply buy talent at the cost of prospects then all those people who constantly bitch about the Yankees doing exactly that need to STFU.

The Yankees spend 700 million a fucking week. They can afford to get some douchebag to come in and be their piece of shit fourth outfielder.

It's easy to call him a PoS now that he has failed to develop, but coming into the year as a young defensive stud CF. Alone not as valuable, but along with two high-quality MLB-ready pitching prospects and on a team with an old OF? *shrug*

Prospects are prospects. I love reading sabermetrics also but you go into a season believing that and you end up with a good team like the Oakland A's in a weaker division. The AL east demands a little more than that. Sure theo has his Youklis and pedroia type guys but the sox also pay(ed) their sps a shitload of money.

Well yeah... But he has (as you said):
- Youkalis
- Pedroia
- Ellsbury
- Lester
and the Sox developed Hanley Ramirez, trading him for more quality players. They spend shitloads of money, but they also recognize quality when they have it.

And BTW, if you made a team with the Yankees bank and the A's management you would go the postseason every year. Forever.

I just think the starting rotation is where the yankees blew it this year

Except that their pitching has performed almost exactly as projected (despite losing Wang for most of the season, some guys like Moose stepped up to fill the gap) but their offense scored more than 100 runs fewer than projected. And they had:
-Wang out for nearly 2/3rds the year
-Matsui out for 400 ABs
-ARod out for 21 games
-Jeter with his worst season in a decade

And they still aren't mathematically eliminated from the playoffs (obviously they aren't going, but my point is they kept things still that close, putting together a quality team, despite all that). They would clearly be better with Johan, but they aren't making the postseason because of lack of expected player development (in Cano, Melky, Kennedy, and Hughes) and large-scale injuries, neither one something a GM can really reasonably be expected to predict.


7 years down the line hughes and kennedy could also end up being very good #2 starters but I dont think a majority of baseball thought that hughes was ever going to be as good as johan. The sample size is waaay to small and extrpolating minor league stats is foolish because there are a plenty of quadruple A ball palyers out there who cant ever become a mlb star but dominate aaa comepetition.

Hughes for Santana would have been an awesome trade and Cashman would've taken it in a heartbeat. But no one was offering it.

[Pollo]

Stax, weren't the Twins asking for Hughes or Kennedy in that Santana deal? they initially asked for both, but they softened their stance.

[awonderful]

the deal would of started with hughes and melky and if kennedy wasnt the last piece 2 other highly rated prospects like a alan horne would of gone in the deal. My impression of melky was that he isnt a cf defensively. He is gold glove corner of guy but doenst hit like a corner of guy, so you get stuck there. The yankees should absolutely buy talent. Just not questionalbe investments like igawa and pavano. When those signings were made every educated fan in NY was shaky about those moves. I hate that i think about the yankees so much but its just the damn sports radio forces me to ponder their roster all the time. what would i do this offseason. I would trade kennedy to the A's for huston street. I think Billy beane does that. I trade robinson cano for sp, or move him to lf or 1b his eventual positions. He is going to end up being a 30 hr guy. This is blaphemous but i move jeter to the of sign furcal and hudson to play the infield. move nady to right. trade matsui for b level prospects. let damon dh and posada and the resigned pudge catch.

then spend the money on cc and resign mussina ..let pettite walk

[Stax]

Stax, weren't the Twins asking for Hughes or Kennedy in that Santana deal? they initially asked for both, but they softened their stance.

Not AFAIK. From what I read at the time it was mostly like this story (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/11/30/2007-11-30_yankees_decide_to_offer_phil_hughes_in_p-2.html):

In any case, the club finally agreed to put Hughes in a package that includes center fielder Melky Cabrera and at least one other lesser pitching prospect still to be negotiated, as of Friday night. And by doing so they believe they are the front-runners to land Santana, the two-time Cy Young winner.

With Kennedy as that lower level prospect. However as the article also noted:

There is still the possibility the Twins will try to push the Yankees to include Kennedy as well as Hughes, but Yankee sources insist they won't go that far.

They believe the Twins want Hughes badly enough to make the deal without Kennedy. A Twins' insider agrees that Smith, the Minnesota GM, believes Hughes is the best pitcher he can acquire for Santana, better than either Lester or Buchholz from the Red Sox.

So.. *shrug* Absolutely agree that Hughes and Melky alone probably tips the scales enough to be worth it, but who knows.

[Pollo]

the deal would of started with hughes and melky and if kennedy wasnt the last piece 2 other highly rated prospects like a alan horne would of gone in the deal. My impression of melky was that he isnt a cf defensively. He is gold glove corner of guy but doenst hit like a corner of guy, so you get stuck there. The yankees should absolutely buy talent. Just not questionalbe investments like igawa and pavano. When those signings were made every educated fan in NY was shaky about those moves. I hate that i think about the yankees so much but its just the damn sports radio forces me to ponder their roster all the time. what would i do this offseason. I would trade kennedy to the A's for huston street. I think Billy beane does that. I trade robinson cano for sp, or move him to lf or 1b his eventual positions. He is going to end up being a 30 hr guy. This is blaphemous but i move jeter to the of sign furcal and hudson to play the infield. move nady to right. trade matsui for b level prospects. let damon dh and posada and the resigned pudge catch.

then spend the money on cc and resign mussina ..let pettite walk

I don't see C.C. heading there seeing he really wants to go to a NL Western team, supposedly. the Dodgers and Giants are the first teams in mind since apparently he wants to be close to home.

however, 150+ million can always change his "home" preference.

[Stax]

the deal would of started with hughes and melky and if kennedy wasnt the last piece 2 other highly rated prospects like a alan horne would of gone in the deal.

Again, looking back the deal makes sense, but had players developed anywhere close to what was expected the Yankees instead of being an old ass team would be infused with youth like the Sox with multiple skilled young position players and pitchers to take the reins.

I hate that i think about the yankees so much but its just the damn sports radio forces me to ponder their roster all the time. what would i do this offseason. I would trade kennedy to the A's for huston street. I think Billy beane does that.

If Billy Beane does that then Billy Beane has had a stroke.

I trade robinson cano for sp, or move him to lf or 1b his eventual positions. He is going to end up being a 30 hr guy.

Well first off Jeter much more belongs at 1st. He's the old, proven offensive player. Plus where are you getting that moderate-at-best-power Cano is a 30 HR guy? Cano is anything but amazing, but unless you can snatch up Kinsler I don't know who you field there.

This is blaphemous but i move jeter to the of sign furcal and hudson to play the infield.

Jeter clearly needs to move from short, but just as clearly isn't going to.

move nady to right. trade matsui for b level prospects.

So Abreu plays left? Not a big shit, but why swap corner positions when they're comfortable where they are?

let damon dh and posada and the resigned pudge catch.

Basically what they're doing, except Pudge won't be a backup.

then spend the money on cc and resign mussina ..let pettite walk

Again basically what they're doing, except maybe Pettitte uses his option and the club gets one more expensive year of meh pitching.

[awonderful]

This is so refreshing because most yankee fans are stoopid. I let abreu walk. I think cano projects to be a 30 hr guy because he hits so many damn doubles. His power should come to full bloom.
I understand the offense was less productive this year but that could be the effect of the bad sp giving up early runs putting the offense in a hole and thus more pressure on players who will go unanmed, dont perform as well in pressure situations. I think losing posada was bigger than the matsui injury. Mussina had a pretty spectacular year. Just imagine if he was mediocre like last season.

[Stax]

This is so refreshing because most yankee fans are stoopid. I understand the offense was less productive this year but that could be the effect of the bad sp giving up early runs putting the offense in a hole and thus more pressure on players who will go unanmed, dont perform as well in pressure situations. I think losing posada was bigger than the matsui injury. Mussina had a pretty spectacular year. Just imagine if he was mediocre like last season.

I totally fucking forgot Posada, and that's kinda sad. But yes, losing Posada is another injury log on the fire of the 2008 New York Yankee season. And while ARod is having a particularly anti-clutch-situation year, it's worth noting this is an extreme outlier even for him.

If you replace half of Molina's god awful ABs with Posada (so not even no injury, just a less serious one or something), some of the random fill-in OF ABs with Matsui, and Wang doesn't get on base in a near-meaningless AB against Houston the Yankees are very much in the playoff hunt this year.

[awonderful]

I agree that this year was def more of an anomaly; statistically AROD will have many years where he is considered a "clutch" hitter.

[Pollo]

I totally fucking forgot Posada, and that's kinda sad. But yes, losing Posada is another injury log on the fire of the 2008 New York Yankee season. And while ARod is having a particularly anti-clutch-situation year, it's worth noting this is an extreme outlier even for him.

If you replace half of Molina's god awful ABs with Posada (so not even no injury, just a less serious one or something), some of the random fill-in OF ABs with Matsui, and Wang doesn't get on base in a near-meaningless AB against Houston the Yankees are very much in the playoff hunt this year.

oh really now?!? I could of swore he was having the same o' type of year he always has.

[Kopek]

The bullpen is starting to get its shit together. I like.

[Stax]

oh really now?!? I could of swore he was having the same o' type of year he always has.

No his hits have scattered in an INCREDIBLY unlikely fashion this year, so he has been particularly unsuccessful in high leverage or 'clutch' situations. Now I'm a firm believer that clutch hitting is not a repeatable skill, so this is just about how his hits have happened to come, but it still means that by the statistical measures of clutchness he's been particularly bad this year (Nuke Jew posted about this a lil while ago)

[awonderful]

according to Kellerman AROD is sucking this year because cynthia left him. With that said expect a bounce back year from him next year..when his mind is clear

[ADD]

I love how most players would kill to have A-Rod's "down year"

[Stax]

Yeah, Keller-whoever is dumb. He's having a great season, the only reason his counting stats are down is missed time.

[TheImpossibleMan]

according to Kellerman AROD is sucking this year because cynthia left him. With that said expect a bounce back year from him next year..when his mind is clear
A-Rod is so good that people take his greatness for granted. Case in point: This post. A-Rod is probably the best position player in the AL this year and people are talking about how he sucks and should look to bounce back.

[awonderful]

well we are talking about high leverae "clutch" situations. Not really his overall value and performance.

[Stax]

well we are talking about high leverae "clutch" situations. Not really his overall value and performance.

But that's the problem with leverage/WPA. Clutch hitting is not a repeatable skill. So while it tracks how clutch or not clutch someone is in a given season, it varies wildly and doesn't really correlate to any ability.

[awonderful]

you dont think big papi is a clutch hitter? seems like that sob is always doing something

[Stax]

you dont think big papi is a clutch hitter? seems like that sob is always doing something

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=745&position=DH

Even by Fangraphs loose definition of Clutch Papi is only slightly positive, and that comes almost entirely from 2005 and 2006. Those are, not surprisingly, two of his absolute best offensive years so he was just great all around (like ARod's high clutch score last year).

[awonderful]

ok are you of the belief that they are clutch pitchers since its not as reflexive as hitting a baseball?

[Stax]

ok are you of the belief that they are clutch pitchers since its not as reflexive as hitting a baseball?

No. Clutch means you perform differently in particular situations, which makes very little sense. Other than physical shifts (pitching from the stretch versus pitching from the windup) or purposeful shifts in practice (going more heavily for ground balls in DP situations) pitchers are not going to pitch all that differently based on any given situation. I suppose you could argue some things a pitcher can do (Ks, Ground balls) are particularly valuable in men-on-base 'clutch' situations, but those are also generally valuable things for a pitcher so you'd have to be ONLY good at those things in clutch situations to be clutch and not just good (and that would be a weird pitcher).

I challenge anyone to present me with a pitcher who consistently had significantly better K/9 or GB/FB rates with men on base.

Like getting on base for hitters, good outcomes for pitchers (outs, aka the inverse of a hitter getting on base) will scatter across all situations roughly equally. Any big variation (the 2008 Twins or 2008 ARod, eg) is an aberration.

[awonderful]

are you bitter that bill james works for the enemy

[Stax]

are you bitter that bill james works for the enemy

Lulz, nah.

[Stax]

Can't wait, got tickets for Saturday's game. 2nd to last in Yankee Stadium, def betting all my GMF bux on the Yankees, either I win big and enjoy or lose and don't really care about the interwebz money anyways.

[Draven X 23]

Can't wait, got tickets for Saturday's game. 2nd to last in Yankee Stadium, def betting all my GMF bux on the Yankees, either I win big and enjoy or lose and don't really care about the interwebz money anyways.

You should be ok. O's don't even know who is going to pitch.

[Snatch]

No. Clutch means you perform differently in particular situations, which makes very little sense. Other than physical shifts (pitching from the stretch versus pitching from the windup) or purposeful shifts in practice (going more heavily for ground balls in DP situations) pitchers are not going to pitch all that differently based on any given situation. I suppose you could argue some things a pitcher can do (Ks, Ground balls) are particularly valuable in men-on-base 'clutch' situations, but those are also generally valuable things for a pitcher so you'd have to be ONLY good at those things in clutch situations to be clutch and not just good (and that would be a weird pitcher).

I challenge anyone to present me with a pitcher who consistently had significantly better K/9 or GB/FB rates with men on base.

Like getting on base for hitters, good outcomes for pitchers (outs, aka the inverse of a hitter getting on base) will scatter across all situations roughly equally. Any big variation (the 2008 Twins or 2008 ARod, eg) is an aberration.

That's a stupid thing to say, when you said yourself that they're pitching from the stretch. Traditionally most pitchers perform worse with runners on. Plus, what kind of sample size is meaningful on that one.

[Stax]

That's a stupid thing to say, when you said yourself that they're pitching from the stretch. Traditionally most pitchers perform worse with runners on. Plus, what kind of sample size is meaningful on that one.

Precisely. Sample size is the point, suggesting that a pitcher is "better in the clutch" is silly. If you get a high number of strikeouts you will tend to get more strikeouts in tough situations and if you allow fewer baserunners (most obviously through preventing walks) you will have fewer tough situations to begin with, and therefore you will tend to be a better pitcher overall.

Suggesting someone can routinely "buckle down" or whatever and get a strikeout when needed but can't do so routinely is very weird.

[Da Raider]

So...Rays fans and Red Sox fans....

who would you rather face in the first round? Angels? Chicago? Minny?

Based on recent playoff experience, I want the Angels to avoid the Red Sox, but if I look at this season, they kicked the shit out of Boston and got their asses handed to them by Tampa...

[Stax]

At this point I think you'd love to face the Central. You either get the Twins who are regressing back to the mean now that they aren't hitting a completely unsustainable amount with RISP, or the White Sox sans Quentin. The Angels are not as good as their record, but they are at least a complete team.

[Pollo]

I do agree that if I'm the Angels, I'd like to play a Central team -- but since two teams are coming out of the East, there's no chance they get the Central champion (unless somehow the Rays overtake them for the best record in the last week).

[Kopek]

_fcmeqwbGAc

[Stax]

_fcmeqwbGAc

Recording it back in his house on his mic rather than actually heckling anyone makes it rather... *shrug*

[Kopek]

I thought the same but they usually save their actual heckling for Stephen A. Smith and that is a service that requires limited use of said heckling to make the Screamin' A videos more awesome.

[Stax]

And with a Red Sox 5-4 win the Yankees will not play a playoff game this October.

[Penguin Rick]

Still, that's quite a run when only 4 teams can make it every year.

[Penguin Rick]

Holy crap, Philip Hughes is pitching!

[Pharon]

Hey, and just in time!

[Stax]

Not badly either. If he can come back next year and be even just respectable he should fill a hole nicely.

[Stax]

Interesting BP article (http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8112). Posting here instead of the Subscribed Article forum for some discussion (plus it's a free one, not subscribed).

Barring an apocalyptic turn of events—winning the rest of their games, the last four against the Red Sox, who would have to lose out all the way through a one-game playoff—the Yankees will miss the 2008 playoffs. It will be the first time in the Division Series era that October will kick off without the Bronx Bombers. That's a reason for celebration in many quarters, and a cause for distress in others, but the team's failure to make the postseason inspires one question from everyone: What now?

The key thing to remember is that the 2008 Yankees are not a bad baseball team, and in fact, were MLB to send its top eight teams by merit alone, these Yankees would probably be included. They're tied for eighth in MLB in wins and winning percentage, and when you consider that they've put up their 85-71 mark in the toughest division in baseball history, that record understates their performance. Here are the best teams in baseball by third-order record:


Team W L
Red Sox 99.2 56.8
Rays 93.7 61.3
Cubs 90.6 64.4
Blue Jays 88.1 67.9
Yankees 87.1 68.9
Mets 85.1 70.9
White Sox 85.0 70.0
Dodgers 84.5 71.5

No, the Yankees aren't a bad team, and in fact, they'd probably have won four of the other five divisions in baseball, something you could say for all four of the good teams in the AL East. It's important that they not overreact to missing the postseason. Missing the postseason says more about their competitive environment, which included four of the top five teams in baseball, than about the Yankees themselves. (It also, as an aside, makes what the Rays did this year all the more impressive.)

Of course, an 85-71 mark (or 87-69) is still a bit below expectations. The Yankees' failure to reach the mid-90s in wins can be attributed largely to two areas: young players and injuries, with the former the primary reason. Brian Cashman's goal over a period of years has been to lower the payroll and change the roster by letting the products of a suddenly productive farm system play. This was the rationale behind not trading a package of young players for Johan Santana, or making big deals at the trade deadline in 2007. This year, however, the plan backfired because the young players spit the bit.

Center fielder Melky Cabrera is a defensive improvement on late-career Bernie Williams and Johnny Damon, with speed and a strong arm that counter his sometimes questionable routes in center. However, he took a huge step backwards this season at the plate by batting .243/.296/.337. His walk rate slipped, and his ability to put balls in play with authority disappeared. A solidly built 5'10", Cabrera has eight extra-base hits and 10 unintentional walks in his last 241 plate appearances, which is why he spent most of August at Triple-A. Robinson Cano didn't have quite as bad a season, but his .264/.299/.403 line has been a significant dropoff. As a player who doesn't walk much, Cano has to hit .300 to keep from being a problem on offense, and his defense doesn't begin to make up for poor offense. In 2007, Cano and Cabrera were worth 13.6 wins above replacement a year ago. This year, they were worth 6.7. That alone accounts for the gap between the Yankees' expected performance and their actual one.

The other big problem on offense was the injury to Jorge Posada, a torn right rotator cuff that required surgery and limited him to 51 games played. The Yankees replaced him first with Jose Molina, and then Ivan Rodriguez, neither of whom remotely approached Posada's production. All told, the Yankees used five catchers in Posada's stead, and none of them posted a .300 OBP. Their defense was a bit better, but not enough to make up for the extra outs being made.

The Yankees played the 2008 season getting sub-.300 OBPs from three lineup spots. That, more than any other factor, is why they're not going to play past Sunday afternoon. That, more than any other problem, is what they have to address in the offseason.

It won't be easy. The three years remaining on Posada's contract dictate that the team waits for him to rehab and hopes that he can catch at least semi-regularly. Cano now has a contract that pays him $25 million through 2011, and with his trade value gone, he almost has to be back as the second baseman. There are no viable center fielders on the free-agent market; the outfielders that are available are below-average defensively even on the corners and more middle-of-the-lineup types. Johnny Damon's limited time in center field this season has confirmed that he's no longer an option as an everyday player at the position. Signing Adam Dunn or Manny Ramirez and sliding Damon to center would give back many of the runs such a signing would create on offense. Additionally, a deal of that nature could exacerbate the logjam at DH, where Posada and Hideki Matsui may need to get their playing time.

The Yankees find themselves in a terrible bind. What they need is OBP up the middle. What they have are flawed players with immovable contracts and significant questions as to what they will produce in 2009, and a market that offers little in the way of solutions.

In the same way that Cano and Cabrera took down the offense this year, with an injury to Posada finishing it off, the pitching suffered because two notable farm products failed to produce. Philip Hughes and Ian Kennedy were expected to step in at the back end of the rotation and combine for league-average work, but they instead made 16 starts and allowed 61 runs, averaging less than four innings a start. Chien-Ming Wang played the Posada role, missing half the season with a foot injury suffered running the bases. The great work the team got from Pettitte and Mussina was largely canceled out by the lack of production by the three homegrown starters. Nevertheless, on the whole, the Yankees' run prevention was good enough to win.

The Yankees' failure to score enough runs to win, while allowing about as many runs as expected, is why the predicted off-season emphasis on acquiring pitching is misguided. There's an assumption that the Yankees will sign CC Sabathia and at least one other starting pitcher from the upcoming free-agent pool. However, the lesson of the 2008 Yankees should be that you can build an effective staff without committing $150 million over seven years to any one hurler. Andy Pettitte and Mike Mussina have provided 65 starts of above-average pitching, and while the price is high ($28 million), the length of commitment is not. Both contracts expire this week, and both provide a guideline as to the kind of deal the Yankees should be looking to make again: short-term, high-dollar deals that provide certainty if not upside.

The risks on the market are far too great to justify the costs. Sabathia has thrown a ton of pitches the last few years and will almost certainly struggle to manage his body as he ages. Ben Sheets and A.J. Burnett have never been able to string multiple healthy and effective seasons together. Ryan Dempster and Oliver Perez have rarely been able to string multiple healthy and effective half-seasons together. There are nothing but land mines out there, and unless you can get one of these pitchers to take a shorter deal with a very high average annual value, the likelihood of a disastrous contract is high. The Yankees have a fair amount of pitching talent already on hand, and do not need to assume the massive risk involved in a market-price contract for one of these pitchers.

Moreover, the Yankee bullpen was surprisingly effective, and while Mariano Rivera made $15 million to pitch the ninth inning, it was the development of Edwar Ramirez and Jose Veras, as well as low-profile pickups such as Dan Giese and Brian Bruney, that made the sixth through eighth innings a strength. They don't need to look elsewhere for pitching help, and they certainly don't need to gild the lily with a certain hard-throwing righty better-suited for more work.

So what should the Yankees do this winter? How do they get back to the postseason in 2009 in a way that leverages their assets while avoiding the kind of massive mistakes that kill a team for years to come? Here's the course of action:

* Sign Mark Teixeira. With Jason Giambi's contract expiring (there's a $22 million option likely to be bought out for $5 million), the Yankees don't have a first baseman in place for '09. Teixeira is the most complete position player on the market, bringing power and OBP from both sides of the plate and strong defense. Most contracts for players on the left side of the defensive spectrum are bad ideas, but Teixeira's age (29 in April), durability (one DL stint in his career) and performance level make him worth the risk. The Yankees' cash position means they can meet or exceed any offer to Teixeira, and using him to replace Giambi ($21 million in 2008) means that signing him would be nearly cost-neutral while improving the team's first-base play by two wins. Signing Teixeira would be consistent with the Yankees' approach to free agency prior to the Carl Pavano signing: getting the best free agent on the market, while staying out of the overpriced middle. This, and not Sabathia, is the key move of the offseason. There is no free agent like Teixeira.

* Try to bring back Bobby Abreu. Abreu's approach at the plate is valuable to a team that doesn't work the count as well as it might. Unfortunately, he's another aging corner outfielder with defensive issues. If you can sign him for, say, two years and a vesting option, it would be worth the investment; anything longer than that is probably too risky. There are not many right fielders on this roster or in the market, and Xavier Nady is not an everyday player—you need a lefty partner for him.

* Avoid the pitchers. Only Sabathia has the kind of track record that might warrant the contracts the pitchers will be getting from the market this winter. As good as he's been the last two seasons, there's an enormous amount of risk involved in signing a pitcher who has been worked like a dray horse of late, and who carries a lot of weight. It works for him now, but will it work for him in 2012? With the expectation that he'll get a seven-year deal for upwards of $23 million a season, that's the critical question.

Once you set Sabathia aside, the rest of the class is easy to dismiss. Sheets and Burnett simply don't have the track records to warrant five-year commitments, and Dempster and Perez have three good years between them. These guys are the Pavanos and Jaret Wrights of this offseason. Let someone else make those mistakes.

* Put Joba Chamberlain in the rotation and leave him alone. Chamberlain didn't get hurt because he was used as a starter, and the idea that he should be a reliever is misguided. He was a starter his whole career until the Yankees needed bullpen help in the summer of 2007 and alighted on him as a solution. They have to stop diminishing his value by turning him into a 75-inning contributor in moderate-leverage situations. Let him prepare this winter for 32 starts, and then turn him loose on the AL.

* Re-sign Mussina or Pettitte. Try and get some kind of Yankee discount on one of these two, both of whom have quietly been anchors this year. Even if Mussina were to regress to his 2007 level, he'd still be worth a deal comparable to what he's coming off of, a two-year, $15 million commitment. As with the signings of Rivera and Posada last winter, it is probably worth it to the Yankees to use their cash to overpay slightly for some certainty. You're buying 60 starts over two years of league-average baseball without having to risk what that might become in years three through seven. This enables the Yankees to work in the young pitchers behind them in the rotation.

* Pick up Carl Pavano's option. It seems like a ridiculous idea, but Pavano's late-season performance has shown him to be a reasonable back-end option for a big-league rotation. You can laugh, but if he hits the market, some team will give him a two-year contract just off of the last month of work. The Yankees can pay $13 million—$11 million marginal considering the $2 million buyout—and have a fifth or sixth (insurance) starter in place for 2009, one who will be better than Sidney Ponson and Darrell Rasner. This is, again, a situation where the Yankees can use their deep pockets to overpay in the short term as opposed to committing more money to an uncertain future.

* Don't touch the bullpen. Resist the temptation to use the available money on the 2009 equivalents of Kyle Farnsworth or Chris Hammond. The Yankees have a plethora of live arms who can help them control games in front of Rivera, and they just keep coming: both Alfredo Aceves and Phil Coke have, in just the last few weeks, put themselves in position to be key contributors out of the pen in 2008. The best bullpens are homegrown and inexpensive, and the Yankees can have that by just leaving theirs alone.

This doesn't solve all of the short-term problems, most notably leaving the same hole in center field that existed all year, and assuming calculated risks behind the plate and at second base. The contract status of Posada and Cano make the latter problems intractable; you could conceivably offer Cano in a deal for the Orioles' Brian Roberts, signed through '09, but I'm not sure the Orioles would take on Cano, even though they'd get all the upside in the deal. The only way to solve center field is by taking on a contract, with Gary Matthews Jr., Vernon Wells, and Aaron Rowand all springing to mind. None of those three solve the Yankees' OBP issues, though, and with the contracts involved, giving Cabrera one more shot at the job, with Austin Jackson coming up behind him, seems prudent. In Cabrera's favor is that he's just 24 years old, and is still the best defensive outfielder on the team. Signing an extra outfielder who can play center and bat left-handed—I'll name Endy Chavez for his defensive skills, but you probably want a better bat—would help.

So, were I in charge, this would be your 2009 New York Yankees:

C: Posada, Molina
1B: Teixeira
2B: Cano, Betemit
SS: Jeter
3B: Rodriguez
LF: Damon
CF: Cabrera, Chavez
RF: Abreu, Nady
DH: Matsui
SP: Wang, Chamberlain, Mussina, Hughes, Kennedy, Pavano
RP: Rivera, Ramirez, Veras, Coke, Aceves, Giese

I agree with a lot of his points, except Pavano. I'd much rather pick up BOTH Moose and Pettitte (for a similarly expensive-but-short deal) based on a history of performance and fewer injuries. I do have to say that I think CC is worth hunting for the Yankees (which he mentions) because while their run prevention was nice this year even if Moose (and/or Pettitte) repeat next year (which is unlikely) they'll be gone after that basically guaranteed. Buying a guy who will be under contract for almost entirely his prime of a sexy career would bolster the rotation nicely (Sabathia/Wang/Joba would be quite a 1/2/3).

Tex makes sense for the reasons outlined, as they'd basically be guaranteed to pay him less than Giambi and he'd be younger and likely better. Abreu is really still very productive (and even if you have to go Abreu/Nady platooned a bit that's a nice OF).

[Pollo]

if anything, the Yankees will be focusing on getting a SP first before they even think about Tex. if the Angels win the WS, I think Tex will take a discount to stay with them and Arte Moreno should be able to afford him since I don't see F-Rod coming back and Garrett Anderson's club option could be turned down.

[Stax]

I tend to agree on the pitching vs. offense front, but it is a worthy point that gets ignored about this season. The pitching was fine, it was the offense that shit the bed. I just think he takes it a bit too far, since Moose and Pettitte (and Pavano, for that matter) will almost certainly be gone next year so locking up a 3rd young stud like CC would be nice.

[Pollo]

I agree, CC would be perfect for them (hell for any team), but if it's true he wants to go to a NL team in California to return home, then you're out of luck. guys like Ben Sheets and AJ Burnett will be available, and I'm sure the Yankees could land one of those two guys. I actually wonder what SD will do with Peavy and Gonzalez since the Padres owner could be seeing alot of financial difficultly since he has a pending divorce, so don't be shocked if one of two guys is dealt.

[Stax]

Peavy would be sexy. Someone like Sheets though... I'm less inclined to get someone fresh off an injury like that unless you get mega-short deal or mega-cheap somehow.

[opasewq]

Joba Chamberlain was arrested for driving under the influence early Saturday morning near his hometown of Lincoln, Neb.
Deborah Collins, a spokeswoman for the Nebraska State Patrol, said that the 23-year-old Chamberlain was pulled over after being observed speeding in a 2006 BMW 750i shortly after 1 a.m. on U.S. 77.

Chamberlain was arrested after an odor of alcohol was detected and an open container of alcohol was observed on the front passenger seat. Chamberlain was taken to the Cornhusker Place Detox and booked on charges of driving under the influence, having an open container of alcohol and speeding.

This story was broken, based on what I know, by the Journal Star newspaper in Lincoln.
Working on trying to obtain a comment from Joba, his agent, Brian Cashman and/or the Yankees. Nothing as of yet.
This post will be updated as more information becomes available.
UPDATE, 10:49 p.m.: The Yankees have no official comment on the arrest of Chamberlain according to Media Relations Director Jason Zillo.
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/10/18/chamberlain-arrested-in-nebraska/

[Stax]

Buddy told me about that, mega-lulz.

[wacker]

It must take a lot of booze to get that fat fuck drunk

[Draven X 23]

Orioles 1B Kevin Millar, appearing as a guest host on FSN's "Best Damn Sports Show Period," on former teammate Manny Ramirez not paying for anything: "He's very cheap. Let's get that straight. Cheap�Manny would have a tough time going to team dinners because he was scared he would get the bill."

[ADD]

It's so hard not to like Manny...

[nuclearjew]

Found this on the old site:
My new roomate is a pretty serious Pirates fan, and I suddenly realized, while he was listening to a radio broadcast of the Pirates/Reds game, that Pittsburgh is probably the most irrelevant MLB team. Agree/disagree?
Pirates play in the most wideopen division, making any effect they have more important IMO. I'd say a team like Tampa Bay, irrelevant in a basically 2-team division anyways, is the most pointless (though they always have talent)
Gammons just said on Sportscenter that the Rays making the WS is one of the greatest postseason worst-to-first stories of all-time. It is amazing that they managed to not only win the AL RedSox/Yankees Division, but they also made it to the World Series, albeit in a gut-wrenching fashion.

[Stax]

Found this on the old site:

Gammons just said on Sportscenter that the Rays making the WS is one of the greatest postseason worst-to-first stories of all-time. It is amazing that they managed to not only win the AL RedSox/Yankees Division, but they also made it to the World Series, albeit in a gut-wrenching fashion.

Lulz, I remember writing that. In my defense my MLB Prediction did have Tampa with an over .500 record for this year. :p

[marquis]

Yankees making room for Texiera and Sabathia http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3682950

DANA POINT, Calif. -- The New York Yankees (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/clubhouse?team=nyy) declined their 2009 options on first baseman Jason Giambi (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3226) and pitcher Carl Pavano (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3784) on Tuesday, making the pair eligible for free agency.


Giambi will receive a $5 million buyout rather than a $22 million salary next season, completing his $120 million, seven-year contract. Pavano gets a $1.95 million buyout instead of a $13 million salary, finishing his $39.95 million deal.

[Stax]

The Giambi thing was already known. There were stories they were going to renegotiate now for less with him tho, which rather kills the liklihood of going for Teix, god I hope those are wrong.

[TTT]

wow, this place is deader than dead.

[Stax]

There is an offseason thread...

[TTT]

there is no offseason in the AL East.

*oooooooh!*

[Stax]

Great article:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-great-derek-jeter-conspiracy

[CrazyCarl]

Orioles win the pennant!

[TheImpossibleMan]

This past season had made me switch sides and favor the salary cap.

[Stax]

This past season had made me switch sides and favor the salary cap.

Favor a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

[TheImpossibleMan]

I just don't think it's good for baseball to not have one.

[Stax]

I just don't think it's good for baseball to not have one.

Why? Seriously, in this past offseason that was seen as such a massive spending spree by the Yankees they signed 2 real players (Tex and CC) and overpaid for Burnett by a lot. Since the amateur player draft and expanded playoff structure the Yankee dominance has been effectively erased. The only thing left, I think, is my proposal that likely won't ever happen but would fix some of the issues with divisional play:

1. Eliminate interleague
2. Eliminate divisional play (play all teams an equal number of games, leaves a couple odd games on the edge to divvy up but basically equal schedules)
3. Top 4 teams from each league make the playoffs.

3 best teams are the Rays/Sox/Yanks? Great, 3 teams in the playoffs. Gives the Os/Blue Jays of the world a shot and ensures the Angels of the world don't feed off an easy division. Everyone plays the same schedule against the same teams, best teams make the playoffs.

[jemeske]

The Yankees may not have won a WS in a decade, but the current system still gives them quite an advantage. Well run teams that don't have the spending power can overcome them, but the Yankees are able to cover up their mistakes with their checkbook in a way that most other franchises cannot come close to equaling.

[Stax]

The Yankees may not have won a WS in a decade, but the current system still gives them quite an advantage. Well run teams that don't have the spending power can overcome them, but the Yankees are able to cover up their mistakes with their checkbook in a way that most other franchises cannot come close to equaling.

That's nice. The Yankees have not achieved anywhere close to their dominance from the 20s-50s, dominance through control of the amateur talent market that led to the draft. This was the only other time in baseball history that such a talent control measure was implemented to stop dominance. When the Yankees become an efficiently enough managed team where they don't sign an AJ Burnett for every CC Sabathia maybe times will change and a cap will be necessary. But even then the free agent market is incredibly inefficient (as you are almost universally overpaying for declining talent, based on the length of most initial contract structures).

[jemeske]

So its fair that the Yankees are essentially the only team bidding on the top fa talent? Even if they do overpay or sign duds or whatever, they still get a number of studs and the duds don't hurt them nearly as much as they do other teams. They can sign deals that could potentially cripple other franchises and for the most part just move on and sign the next big deal.

[Stax]

So its fair that the Yankees are essentially the only team bidding on the top fa talent? Even if they do overpay or sign duds or whatever, they still get a number of studs and the duds don't hurt them nearly as much as they do other teams. They can sign deals that could potentially cripple other franchises and for the most part just move on and sign the next big deal.

Who got Santana? Where's Albert Pujols playing? Halladay? Dice-K? Manny? The Red Sox, Os, Nats, and Yanks all bid on Tex.

And what's fair got to do with things? How would it be fair (under a cap system) that the more successful franchise can't spend it's dollars if they are willing?

[jemeske]

Fair in terms of competitive balance. And regardless of what you say, when one teams has or is willing to significantly outspend most of the other franchises, that leads to competitive imbalance.

A cap might not be fair in a market sense, but that is clearly not what TIM was referring to.

Also, other teams might be able to sign FAs or retain talent, but the Yankees are almost always going to be able to offer more to them if they choose.

[Stax]

Fair in terms of competitive balance. And regardless of what you say, when one teams has or is willing to significantly outspend most of the other franchises, that leads to competitive imbalance.

In a perfectly run system. I agree that when the Yankees begin to approach a perfectly run system a cap may be necessary (along with a floor).

Also, other teams might be able to sign FAs or retain talent, but the Yankees are almost always going to be able to offer more to them if they choose.

And? I saw a bit of an interview with Theo Epstein on NESN while flipping through the channels. He's probably the best GM in baseball (if not him then his teacher Beane). His message on the Tex deal? If the Yankees want to continually overbid everyone in FA negotiations feel free, but that will bite them in the butt.

What did massively overpaying for Giambi get them? 3-4 years maybe worth it (02, 03, 05, 06) and 3 clearly not worth it including 2 nowhere near full seasons (04, 07, 08). Overpaying to steal Johnny Damon? The Red Sox got better and younger, with an open roster spot for youngsters like Ellsbury to get a shot, while the Yankees got an injury-laden leadoff man who couldn't field the position so often listed next to his name (CF).

The free agent market is inefficient by nature as you are paying premium dollars for players 28-29+ (often 30+) in their prime negotiating position. Even perfectly managed the Yankees would get screwed plenty, and they're nowhere close to perfectly managed.

[jemeske]

But they aren't really getting hurt by it. Even after signing so many ridiculous contracts, they're still able to throw a ton of money around to cover up for those mistakes. When one FA goes bust, they just sign another in a way that other teams cannot match.

And if I did actually favor a cap, a floor would absolutely be needed.

[Stax]

But they aren't really getting hurt by it. Even after signing so many ridiculous contracts, they're still able to throw a ton of money around to cover up for those mistakes. When one FA goes bust, they just sign another in a way that other teams cannot match.

And if I did actually favor a cap, a floor would absolutely be needed.

But the Yankees DIDN'T bid on another big 1B while they had Giambi or CF (like Hunter or Ichiro) while they had Damon. Yes the Yankees can take a bad year from a big FA and still survive given their resources, but even they aren't out there buying up multiple superstars at positions.

[Draven X 23]

Who got Santana? Where's Albert Pujols playing? Halladay? Dice-K? Manny? The Red Sox, Os, Nats, and Yanks all bid on Tex.

Of all of those guys only Manny has been a free agent. Dice-K was posted but the Yankees didn't have a chance to out spend the Red Sox not knowing what the bid would be going in.

But overall let the Yanks do what they want. Don't forget they trimmed $8 mil off their payroll this year. Sure $8 mil off $210 mil is not $8 mil off a $75 mil budget but it was $8 mil. Until there is a way to balance overspenders and underspenders there is not going to be a competitive balance. Unless you change the leagues around. AL Big Spenders vs NL Low Ballers.

The Yankees line up looks a little light right now. They really do miss A-Rod in that line up. Also I remember mentioning Trembley's Man boner for Mora before. Mora is batting clean up today. Mora is a good guy. Just not the 3B I want on this team. But the guy I wasnt is down the road playing for Washington.

Side Note:
I think Halladay will be a member of the Angels by July 31st.

Also I think the easiest way for the Mariners to fix their team is to put King Felix on the block. He is not signing a big extension. And I think he could easily get the Mariners 5 top quality players.

[Hanover Fist]

Side Note:
I think Halladay will be a member of the Angels by July 31st.


While that is the things my wet dreams are made of, I can only imagine what it would cost us to make that deal.

[Stax]

Of all of those guys only Manny has been a free agent. Dice-K was posted but the Yankees didn't have a chance to out spend the Red Sox not knowing what the bid would be going in.

But Pujols and Halladay didn't have to sign those extensions if they didn't want to. And I think including Santana is fair.

[Stax]

While that is the things my wet dreams are made of, I can only imagine what it would cost us to make that deal.

You have about 17 OFers, I wouldn't worry.

[Snatch]

Sabathia looks sharp and in shape. Nothing I like seeing more than Adam Jones walking in his first PA of the season.

[Stax]

Sabathia looks sharp and in shape. Nothing I like seeing more than Adam Jones walking in his first PA of the season.

Lulz

[jemeske]

But the Yankees DIDN'T bid on another big 1B while they had Giambi or CF (like Hunter or Ichiro) while they had Damon. Yes the Yankees can take a bad year from a big FA and still survive given their resources, but even they aren't out there buying up multiple superstars at positions.
They may not always be replacing their bad signings with another superstar, but as you said, for example, the Yankees absorbed the Giambi deal a lot better than the A's would have. They can sign huge money players to virtually every position.

[Draven X 23]

But Pujols and Halladay didn't have to sign those extensions if they didn't want to. And I think including Santana is fair.

Santana would have cost the Yanks their over-rated prospects. Cashman didn't want to give up players. If it was just money then Johan would be a Yankee.

I just have a feeling that Toronto will need an influx of young players and the Angels will need an Ace with so many pitching injuries and the possibility of losing their ace. I think a deal will include Wood plus a few others. Like some of LAs top pitching prospects.

[Draven X 23]

Sabathia looks sharp and in shape. Nothing I like seeing more than Adam Jones walking in his first PA of the season.

Its what he is going to have to do if they are going to bat him 2nd. I think he is more of a #6 or 7 hitter though.

[Stax]

So begins my fucking hatred for black out zones and UConn not getting YES once again. Sounds like a nice play by Ransom in the MLB Gameday thingy.

[Snatch]

Its what he is going to have to do if they are going to bat him 2nd. I think he is more of a #6 or 7 hitter though.

Only other guy I could see hitting second would be Markakis. Unless they brought Reimold up. I hate the lineup without Wieters. Mora hitting cleanup, yechh.

[mongo]

anybody have a stream for this shit?

[Draven X 23]

Only other guy I could see hitting second would be Markakis. Unless they brought Reimold up. I hate the lineup without Wieters. Mora hitting cleanup, yechh.

Mora hit 2nd most of his time in Baltimore. I thought this was going to be the opening day line up:

2B Roberts
3B Mora
RF Markakis
1B Huff
DH Wigginton
CF Jones
LF Scott
C Zaun
SS Izturis

[Stax]

Jeter's batting 1.000! Posada's OBP is 1.000! Sabathia's ERA is 0.00! The Yankees are teh bestest team evar!

[Snatch]

Mora hit 2nd most of his time in Baltimore. I thought this was going to be the opening day line up:

2B Roberts
3B Mora
RF Markakis
1B Huff
DH Wigginton
CF Jones
LF Scott
C Zaun
SS Izturis

Ya, Mora's lost a few steps, and he definitely isn't a good OBP guy any longer. He's hit 3rd a lot of times and 6th, he's always been all over the lineup. Cleanup however...

[Draven X 23]

anybody have a stream for this shit?

What ya looking for? Yanks vs O's?

Isn't the MLB.TV free for the next few days?

[Snatch]

At least Guthrie's throwing strikes.

[mongo]

What ya looking for? Yanks vs O's?


Isn't the MLB.TV free for the next few days?

yes.

o rly?

[Stax]

Not working for me. Maybe cuz I'm in the blackout zone.

[Banon]

Stax is ruling this thread. Keep up the good work, buddy.

[Draven X 23]

Ya, Mora's lost a few steps, and he definitely isn't a good OBP guy any longer. He's hit 3rd a lot of times and 6th, he's always been all over the lineup. Cleanup however...

Never been a good OB% guy. Except when his B.Ave was .340.

I have been waiting for Mora to not be an Oriole for years. Hopefully this is his last one. Everyone seems to only remember his last 200 ABs last year and forget the horribleness of the other 2.5 years.

[jemeske]

Did you guys know CC is going to get off to a good start this season because he's in NY now and he knows he needs to get off to a good start? Ah, Joe Morgan.

[Hanover Fist]

Dang, MLB tv would be kind of hard to crack for passes too since they use your e-mail and location. You'd need a separate cracked account for each person. I wonder what they do about location if you are traveling and want to sign into your account to watch a game.

[Draven X 23]

Actually I was wrong. I actually thought Scott was going to get the day off vs CC and Freel was going to be in LF. I think Freel would be fine hitting behind Roberts when he plays. Roberts gets to 1st. Steals 2nd. Goes to 3rd on Freels bunt single.

Sounds good. O's are going to need to use their speed this season.

[Stax]

Dang, MLB tv would be kind of hard to crack for passes too since they use your e-mail and location. You'd need a separate cracked account for each person. I wonder what they do about location if you are traveling and want to sign into your account to watch a game.

I've seen NFL feeds, I'd have to think the MLB ones can get cracked.

[Hanover Fist]

I've seen NFL feeds, I'd have to think the MLB ones can get cracked.

Well then we need to get PeteT or one of our resident PW members to get on the case immediately. I cannot be paying for internet related content, that would be simply Unamerican.

[Stax]

Well then we need to get PeteT or one of our resident PW members to get on the case immediately. I cannot be paying for internet related content, that would be simply Unamerican.

Exactly.

[Draven X 23]

Did you guys know CC is going to get off to a good start this season because he's in NY now and he knows he needs to get off to a good start? Ah, Joe Morgan.

Aww man they have Joe on the ESPN Yankee vs Os game? Man I hate being blacked out from that now.

That man is a fountain of knowledge.

[Snatch]

MLB.tv stops you at about two logins at a time. Been doing it for several seasons amongst friends.

The game is on ESPN or ESPN2.

[Stax]

MLB.tv stops you at about two logins at a time. Been doing it for several seasons amongst friends.

The game is on ESPN or ESPN2.

Not in blackout zones like here in CT.

[Snatch]

Not in blackout zones like here in CT.

Then, you're fucked. Blame MLB.

MLBtv does actually deliver fairly well. If you're out of market, it's fucking awesome.

[Stax]

Stupid UConn and their stupid not getting YES.

[Snatch]

Stupid UConn and their stupid not getting YES.

Oh, man, that fucking blows dude. MLBtv really is a worthwhile investment if you have a little extra cash.

[Stax]

A DA-BOMB (sac fly)... FROM DA-MON!

[Snatch]

TRex advancing the runner. Fucking cocksucker. Love the boos.

[Stax]

Oh, man, that fucking blows dude. MLBtv really is a worthwhile investment if you have a little extra cash.

But again, UConn is in YES' broadcast region so pretty much all their games are blacked out on MLBtv. It's a perfect shitstorm. No YES, but in YES' region so no 'other' sources (ESPN broadcast games, MLBtv).

The ONLY Yankees games I can watch at school are Yankees/Red Sox on NESN (which we DO get for some reason).

[Snatch]

Matsui reminds me of an Asian Jeff Conine.

[Snatch]

But again, UConn is in YES' broadcast region so pretty much all their games are blacked out on MLBtv. It's a perfect shitstorm. No YES, but in YES' region so no 'other' sources (ESPN broadcast games, MLBtv).

The ONLY Yankees games I can watch at school are Yankees/Red Sox on NESN (which we DO get for some reason).

Honestly, I bet if you call MLBtv and explain your circumstances, they might actually give you a break with it.

[mongo]

here is a really good stream for the yanks game. too bad it shits the bed every 20 seconds. i hate refreshing.

http://ipobar.com/vigor/index.php?t=wmv&c=latino

[Stax]

Not worth it for the money anyways, a month of April baseball and a month of September. *shrug*

[Snatch]

Not worth it for the money anyways, a month of April baseball and a month of September. *shrug*

I can't go more than 3 or 4 days without watching the O's.

Fucking Cesar?

[Snatch]

Cesar got a huge jump, Posada's arm didn't look COMPLETELY fucked.

Sabathia's leg kick is WAY too big from the stretch with Posada behind the plate.

[mongo]

Cesar got a huge jump, Posada's arm didn't look COMPLETELY fucked.

Sabathia's leg kick is WAY too big from the stretch with Posada behind the plate.

slide step ftw!

[Snatch]

Sabathia is way off today. Not locating at all.

[mongo]

stax, here is a kickass stream. pw=drpepper

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/free-hotdog-and-drpepper

[Draven X 23]

Jones crushed that shit. 2 Run triple!

OK Adam is my fav #2 hitter now.

I wonder if he did what I used to be taught. My coach taught me to purposely foul off a bunt to get people in. Also it gave me a better pitch to hit since they thought I was giving up an out.


Woo Markakis RBI Sac Fly. 3-1!

[jemeske]

Sabathia is way off today. Not locating at all.
Apparently he didn't listen to Joe Morgan. He's in NY now, he should be going 3 up 3 down. He knows he needs to.

[Snatch]

Morgan actually has been pretty on the money so far this game. It's pretty impressive.

[Snatch]

Guthrie's fastball looks a bit straight.

[Draven X 23]

I hate when the telecast goes to non-baseball people. I don't care what they mayor of Baltimore thinks of the game.

[Snatch]

Is Biden allowed to say "Hell" over and over?

[mongo]

Is Biden allowed to say "Hell" over and over?

i'm gonna go w/ "yes".

[Snatch]

"hellllll nooo"

[Snatch]

Come on Zaun dammit.

[mongo]

i just want biden to stfu.

[Draven X 23]

Wigginton just tagged up on Johnny Damon. Everyone know Damon throws like a 11 year old girl.

[Snatch]

Wigginton just tagged up on Johnny Damon. Everyone know Damon throws like a 11 year old girl.

Dammit. CC is really catching breaks.

[Snatch]

Jesus, look at that helmet.

[Draven X 23]

Teixeira said he wants to go out and get some crabcakes tomorrow. I don't think he should be going out after hearing all of these boos.

[Snatch]

I don't know about that one.

[mongo]

god damn it.

[Draven X 23]

Nice to get CC when he is not in his groove.

Jones needs to work on his bunting.

Wow top 2 of the O's line up have been on all 6 times this game.

[Snatch]

Jeter = Gold Glover.

[mongo]

Jeter = Gold Glover.

lulz.

[Snatch]

Yankees defense, winning games since 2001.

[mongo]

the left side of that infield looks absolutely horrible today.

[mongo]

why the fuck didn't cano throw home? come the fuck on.

[Snatch]

This start cost the Yankees a million dollars.