Car Thread

[BIG PIZZLE]

I dunno but it that shit has to be at least $300k.

[Archangel]

Gotta be the SL then. It's $320k.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Do you know how much money someone has to make in order to be able to qualify $9700 monthly payments on a car lease?

[Archangel]

So much that it probably would be more convenient to just drop the $320k up front?

[BIG PIZZLE]

That's not how america works.

[Hoser]

If it were a few years ago anyone could have been approved...

[Archangel]

That's not how america works.
Yeah, you guys are way too much in love with credit.
If it were a few years ago anyone could have been approved...
Haha. I think Merc limited that by only building 200 of the things.

[}{arlequin]

Oh yeah, and the coupé looks absolutely stunning.

http://static.pagenstecher.de/uploads/5/53/535/5350/7db881a3291.jpg
to my eye, 6 series looks sexier

My buddy sells mercedes. He told me last night that he leased an "amg black?" for $36k down and $9700 a month.
a friend of mine is leasing a 997 gt3 and running it on the track on a regular basis. prior to this he was leasing and tracking a twin turbo 996 cabrio. had to put in a rollbar in that one but since it was a factory item the dealer didn't care and took the car back no questions asked.

[Archangel]

to my eye, 6 series looks sexier

Doesn't the 6 compete more against the CL/SL rather than the CLK/E Coupé?

[}{arlequin]

i didn't think of that.


i was focusing more on the fact that a 3series coupe wouldn't be able to compete w/ the merc and since there is no 5series coupe, the 6 was the natural choice.

[Archangel]

Well, it's a move up from the CLK, obviously, which, being based on the C-Class, was a competitor to the 3 Coupé: With this, Merc stand pretty much alone. Prices will start at around €45k, which puts it square between the 3 Coupé and the 6...

[BIG PIZZLE]

http://www.autoclub.com.au/uploaded_images/bmw-x6-sports-activity-coupe-2008-754473.jpg

[}{arlequin]

Well, it's a move up from the CLK, obviously, which, being based on the C-Class, was a competitor to the 3 Coupé: With this, Merc stand pretty much alone. Prices will start at around €45k, which puts it square between the 3 Coupé and the 6...
i gotta say, i do like the no b-pillar look, especially w/ all the windows down. reminds me of some of the cooler 'american iron' cars

[Hanover Fist]

I just remembered this conversation I had with my best friend the other day.

His dad works at ACT which does the paint/body testing for all the car manufacturers.
The makers basically send them body panel samples and paints and then they paint the samples and run them through all the various testing. i.e. salt spray, heat lamps, chipping etc etc...

Anyway, he said that very recently (as in the last few weeks) GM had made a change to the thickness of their body panels. Sheet metal has now been changed from .032" to .028" thickness in an attempt to save money and decrease vehicle weight and try and increase fuel efficiency.
His dad told him that the panels already were so thin that they basically dented if you breathed on them too hard, and now they are even thinner.
I have no idea what the thickness of the other manufacturers are, he only told me GM's.

[Archangel]

http://www.autoclub.com.au/uploaded_images/bmw-x6-sports-activity-coupe-2008-754473.jpg
Image fail.

However, I guess it's supposed to be an X6, which is probably the ugliest German car of the past 30 years.

Aren't they built in America?

[Archangel]

I just remembered this conversation I had with my best friend the other day.

His dad works at ACT which does the paint/body testing for all the car manufacturers.
The makers basically send them body panel samples and paints and then they paint the samples and run them through all the various testing. i.e. salt spray, heat lamps, chipping etc etc...

Anyway, he said that very recently (as in the last few weeks) GM had made a change to the thickness of their body panels. Sheet metal has now been changed from .032" to .028" thickness in an attempt to save money and decrease vehicle weight and try and increase fuel efficiency.
His dad told him that the panels already were so thin that they basically dented if you breathed on them too hard, and now they are even thinner.
I have no idea what the thickness of the other manufacturers are, he only told me GM's.

More like Detroit Paper.

[TylerDurden]

However, I guess it's supposed to be an X6, which is probably the ugliest German car of the past 30 years.

Aren't they built in America?

i dunno if they're made in america, but they're kinda sexy to me. it was only a matter of time before the cross-over train smashed the 6-series, too, so this was a welcome surprise.

[Archangel]

There's one parked near where I live, and it's all I can do not to be sick when I go past that thing.

I mean... WHY?

[Sarxos]

The Cayenne did, and still does, that to me. Christ I hate that thing.

[Archangel]

It's a vile and loathsome beast indeed.

[TylerDurden]

the x6 does a great job of bringing over the 6-series in pseudo-suv form. the translation is pretty good. if i was to own a vehicle of that kind, i'd probably choose the x6. the x5 just seems like such a large brute, and the x3 is just... not enough.

[Sarxos]

That thing about GM and the panels... I used to work for Magna in an automotive tool and die factory. We had all the presses for the X3 and a few other cars. We'd one GM car, name alludes me, but the fault tolerance levels were so high compared to the BMW it was just funny. The Americans would take any old crap.

[TylerDurden]

haha, the best part about american cars is that the fault tolerances are stupidly high in the wrong spots.

i expect a good fit and finish, for the most part, just about everywhere. i am, however, willing to overlook non-perfection for things that might just be unavoidable. one of those places is not the engine. not. the. engine. american motors are ridiculous with these tolerance levels.

in all of my experience with bmw/audi/vw, everything is dolphin-tight.

[Sarxos]

Thing I look at is that there was an 8 liter engine in the Viper producing 400hp. The Europeans and Japanese will get that from a 2 liter.

[Archangel]

haha, the best part about american cars is that the fault tolerances are stupidly high in the wrong spots.

i expect a good fit and finish, for the most part, just about everywhere. i am, however, willing to overlook non-perfection for things that might just be unavoidable. one of those places is not the engine. not. the. engine. american motors are ridiculous with these tolerance levels.

in all of my experience with bmw/audi/vw, everything is dolphin-tight.
Yeah, but my mate has a 1-series, and the quality of the plastics in there is a bit dodgy.
Thing I look at is that there was an 8 liter engine in the Viper producing 400hp. The Europeans and Japanese will get that from a 2 liter.

2-litre? To quote Clarkson, we get that out of a toaster these days.

[IdiotBrain]

But damn they can be pretty.

http://www.c-dperformance.com/00_Big_Red_2.JPG

http://www.raffleworld.org/raffleit/images/dvd/100_0795_1.jpg

I want to put a 383 stroker in an old muscle car and drive it maybe twice a month....


Mostly because thats all the gas I could afford.

[TylerDurden]

liquid fuck in a bottle:
http://www.hotcars.com/images/phpThumb.php?src=/var/www/hotcars.com//wp-content/uploads/2008/10/p0033790.jpg&w=450&h=415

[Archangel]

Not quite.


http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/images/engine/mclaren.jpg

The single greatest engine ever.

[TylerDurden]

Not quite.


http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/images/engine/mclaren.jpg

The single greatest engine ever.

damn you. winrar. mclaren f1 motor trumps all.

[TylerDurden]

i just had a spine-tingling thought: slap that motor into my 3 series... *sigh* i'd cum every time i started the fucking car.

[}{arlequin]

retractable garage

http://newslite.tv/2009/03/24/popup-garage-is-latest-london.html

[Hoser]

gPCGnkApnDU

[POO POO CANNON]

haha, the best part about american cars is that the fault tolerances are stupidly high in the wrong spots.

i expect a good fit and finish, for the most part, just about everywhere. i am, however, willing to overlook non-perfection for things that might just be unavoidable. one of those places is not the engine. not. the. engine. american motors are ridiculous with these tolerance levels.

in all of my experience with bmw/audi/vw, everything is dolphin-tight.
Ah? But what about the transmission? Last week, only reverse, second and fourth stopped working on my Yukon.

Oh and that fragile "sun gear," whatever the hell that is.

Still love it, though.

[TylerDurden]

i was simply stating the places that i'd least expect an issue. i'll be a bit more specific and say the powertrain on american vehicles suck, right along with the design, fit, and finish. so i guess what i'm really saying is that american cars, all of them, blow.

[Hoser]

For the money you pay for some cars there should be very lower tolerances no matter where you look.

[Hoser]

So I drove past the GM plant earlier tonight on the way to hockey and something popped into my head. How many Camaro's does GM plan to sell. Seriously, it is lot upon lot upon lot of Camaro's. They are there in the thousands upon thousands. You drive around Whitby or Oshawa and you will find random lots with hundreds or them just sitting there. They do not have enough room to store them. They ran out of normal storage room and they are now just parking them next to buildings where cars would normally be driving.

Also I was watching some come off the line and holy fuck, the people driving them do not take it easy, they really get on it. On the plus side I got to see how fast they are, and that car can move.

[Gary_Busey]

I would peel out of the plant every time one came off the line...then probably fishtail and crash into a building....then get fired and lose my only source of income....and then me, my wife and our 16 kids would have to live in a tent off the highway....

[Hodge]

Some help, maybe:
I'm trying to find the source of a bump/clicking sound that I get when I go over bumps. I have mentioned before that it maybe be in my axle but I just went under my car to check things out.
None of the cv boots are ripped or leaking. There is minimal play in both axles and not so much up and down, just side to side (in and out of the transmission, probably 1/16 inch).
I've tried knocking the different suspension components around and they all seem fairly stable. I've rocked the car at a stand still and haven't heard anything other than the squeaking of the springs.

Any suggestions?

2001 Civic, FWD.

[Hoser]

Does the knock come from the rear or the front?

[BIG PIZZLE]

Me chasing a Ferrari chasing a Ferrari.

http://i42.tinypic.com/s46op0.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/24zj1io.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/egwnk3.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/bg1zjn.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/24o7fd1.jpg

[Archangel]

What were those poor machines doing, 70?

[BIG PIZZLE]

You know, I didnt really pay attention. But probably probably not too fast.

[Archangel]

I feel sorry for those fine automobiles, stuck in SoCal commuter traffic. :(

[Pax Britannia]

My father decided he wouldnt buy the Volkswagen Passat because he didnt like the electronic handbrake. Old people sure do hate change.

[Archangel]

Maybe he just hates Germans?

[Pax Britannia]

German cars are the lesser evil in the motoring world. No-one wants to buy French now do they?

[Archangel]

British Leyland ftw!

[}{arlequin]

My father decided he wouldnt buy the Volkswagen Passat because he didnt like the electronic handbrake. Old people sure do hate change.
there is something to be said for an EMERGENCY car item that is not dependent on the same electrics that makes the car run...

[Hoser]

If I were looking at a big 4 door car it would be on my list

so sexy

http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/661418/2009_passat_cc.jpg
http://image.motortrend.com/f/9675106/112_0804_15z+2009_volkswagen_passat_CC+rear_three_ quarters_view.jpg
http://image.motortrend.com/f/9675157/112_0804_20z+2009_volkswagen_passat_CC+interior_vi ew.jpg

[BIG PIZZLE]

I feel sorry for those fine automobiles, stuck in SoCal commuter traffic. :(

They're a dime a dozen out here.

[Archangel]

If I were looking at a big 4 door car it would be on my list

so sexy


I know, I first told you about it. (http://archive.gorillamask.net/showpost.php?p=2959794&postcount=3001)

[Archangel]

They're a dime a dozen out here.

And all driven by idiots.

[BIG PIZZLE]

They were smart enough to score a Ferrari.

[Archangel]

Paris Hilton drives an SLR around LA. Smart ain't got shit to do with it.

[Hoser]

I know, I first told you about it. (http://archive.gorillamask.net/showpost.php?p=2959794&postcount=3001)

They are everywhere here now, not that I mind.

[Hoser]

BMW Developing Tri-Turbo Diesel For X5?
Just when we were beginning to lose faith in BMW, rumors begin to surface on a crazy new triple turbocharged diesel engine for an X5 Performance Diesel package. Intriguing would be an understatement.

According to unconfirmed reports, BMW has completed development on a tri-turbo version of the twin turbo diesel straight six already doing duty under the hood of the X5. The current 3.0-liter, twin-turbo I6 makes 265 HP but reportedly this upgrade would push output to a heady 354 HP with untold mountains of torque. It would be marketed under the Efficient dynamics banner and get a start-stop system and a regenerative braking system as well. We're most interested to learn how routing two cylinders of exhaust for each turbo will look, should this tasty rumor turn out to be true.

What I don't get is the why add another turbo, which is just another thing to go wrong. It is a diesel, just increase the boost and you will have more power and not really have to worry.

Also are these going to be sequential? If not they could make the same power from one turbo.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Paris Hilton drives an SLR around LA. Smart ain't got shit to do with it.

Slutty like a fox!

[Hodge]

Some help, maybe:
I'm trying to find the source of a bump/clicking sound that I get when I go over bumps. I have mentioned before that it maybe be in my axle but I just went under my car to check things out.
None of the cv boots are ripped or leaking. There is minimal play in both axles and not so much up and down, just side to side (in and out of the transmission, probably 1/16 inch).
I've tried knocking the different suspension components around and they all seem fairly stable. I've rocked the car at a stand still and haven't heard anything other than the squeaking of the springs.

Any suggestions?

2001 Civic, FWD.

Does the knock come from the rear or the front?
From the front. Almost right under my feet except in the middle/passenger side of the vehicle.

[Hoser]

My first thought would be sway bar bushings or a broken link in the sway bar. Could also have something to do with your control arms, a bad bushing. Either way i am very sure it is a bad bushing causing this.

[Hoser]

Went riding with a buddy today and on the way home I watched a 997 GT2 make a C5 (Z06) vette look stupid. The Vette was reving at the GT2 like crazy, the GT2 wouldnt bite, then the Vette stepped on it, all of the sudden I hear this orgasmic noise and see the GT2 walk by the vette like it was standing still.

Made my day.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Nissan Z looks tits.

[Hoser]

Nissan Z looks like a catfish.

[TylerDurden]

What I don't get is the why add another turbo, which is just another thing to go wrong.

it's a bmw, not some domestic piece of shit: things don't just go "wrong".

It is a diesel, just increase the boost and you will have more power and not really have to worry.

the size of the turbos probably have a lot to do with that. the way they're talking is that it'll be tri-turbocharged. on their bi-turbo'd 335 each bank of cylinders gets a dedicated turbocharger that runs concurrently with the other.

Also are these going to be sequential? If not they could make the same power from one turbo.

i could see boost lag being an issue with a single turbo, and running them sequentially would be a waste (one turbo per how 1700 rpm?). if this is true running three turbochargers on a diesel makes the only sense in a "per cylinder pair run concurrently" configuration.

btw, this news coincides with bmw adding m-variants to their x-series with an x5m and an x6m. mmm, tasty. bmw, if memory serves, has never had a diesel-powered m, so i'd look for this guy to be used in a non-m sport edition (gets all the looks and sporty accessories of an m, but not the same motor).

From the front. Almost right under my feet except in the middle/passenger side of the vehicle.

if that's the location it's not going to be your swaybars or suspension. typically, the swaybars cross the car almost directly in front of the motor and below it. and you'd have one weird-ass looking car if it was your suspension. i don't recall your original query with this issue, but if there's been no change in handling characteristics and it's just a noise i suspect it's either your exhaust's heat shield has sheared loose from one of its mounting screws or there's something rattling against your downpipe.

I watched a 997 GT2 make a C5 (Z06) vette look stupid.

i doubt highly the z06 driver was doing anything more than getting an appreciative look at a great car doing what it does best. and given the two cars in question, the result isn't surprising at all. in that regard, the gt2 hardly made the z06 look stupid... unless the result actually surprised you. in which case it'd be the driver who was stupid, not the car.

on the contrary, i'd say it was the gt2 that looked stupid: the z06 has 90% of the gt2's performance at 50% of the cost. which one is stupid now?

Nissan Z looks tits.

the out-going 350s were monsters on the track. in the hands of a capable driver and a set of slicks, there's not a whole lot that can stay with one of these fuckin' things through the corners.

hopefully they didn't change much from the 350 to the 370 other than two-tenths of a litre.

[}{arlequin]

From the front. Almost right under my feet except in the middle/passenger side of the vehicle.
loose heatshield over the cat?

[Archangel]

There is no parallel universe in which I'd pick a GT2 over a standard Turbo.


Hell, I had an epiphany today. In fact, a bog standard Carrera is all the car anyone will ever need.

[Gary_Busey]

When were sport/super/muscle cars about what someone "needs"?

[Archangel]

That's the point, the Carrera is a ridiculously rational purchase. Probably why the streets here are lousy with the things. It's a perfectly suitable daily driver, it's not really ostentatious, its build quality is bulletproof, and to counter-act the hefty price tag, it will hold value like almost nothing else.

And unlike an M3 or consorts, it's not a performance variant of a saloon car, but a sports car through and through. Just one which makes sense.

How quintessentially German.

[Hodge]

loose heatshield over the cat?
To you and Tyler; I messed with the exhaust a bit too. I tried shaking everything that I could get my hands on that could possibly making the noise.
Nothing obvious.

The best conclusion is that my strength does not equal the weight of a car and can't create this noise by hand which is quite possible.

I also had a temporary clicking noise when turning after slamming a speed bump (6 am, a little groggy). It lasted about 3 turns then went away. That was about 6 weeks ago but I thought they could be related.

[Hodge]

I'm getting a provincial inspection soon. If they say shit and can't fix it I'll tell them to get fucked.

[BIG PIZZLE]

There is no parallel universe in which I'd pick a GT2 over a standard Turbo.


Hell, I had an epiphany today. In fact, a bog standard Carrera is all the car anyone will ever need.

Where would I put my golf clubs?

[Archangel]

Where would I put my golf clubs?

There are always the back "seats".

[Hoser]

There is no parallel universe in which I'd pick a GT2 over a standard Turbo.


Hell, I had an epiphany today. In fact, a bog standard Carrera is all the car anyone will ever need.

I will never in my life buy a "bottom" end car. I know a guy with a 996 Carrera, and honestly I am just not impressed with it.

For me it would have to come down to money and what other cars I wanted. But I would defiantly love to have a GT2 or GT3.

[Archangel]

So you wouldn't buy a Murciélago or a DB9 because the Reventón and the DBS exist? Fuck a 640, there's the M6 out there? No E 250 for you, it's 63 AMG or nothing? That's silly.

It's a fucking Porsche which does 0-60 in 4.3 seconds and drives rings around 99.9% of all cars out there. "Bottom end", my bottom end.

[Trident]

I do like a satin finish on (the right) cars:

http://safirutza.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/rs41.jpg
http://safirutza.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/rs42.jpg

[}{arlequin]

To you and Tyler; I messed with the exhaust a bit too. I tried shaking everything that I could get my hands on that could possibly making the noise.
Nothing obvious.

The best conclusion is that my strength does not equal the weight of a car and can't create this noise by hand which is quite possible.

I also had a temporary clicking noise when turning after slamming a speed bump (6 am, a little groggy). It lasted about 3 turns then went away. That was about 6 weeks ago but I thought they could be related.
when you do hear the clinking again, try to remember whether you were on the gas or off (or slowing down?)

[}{arlequin]

There is no parallel universe in which I'd pick a GT2 over a standard Turbo.


Hell, I had an epiphany today. In fact, a bog standard Carrera is all the car anyone will ever need.
for a daily driver, the turbo is nice but as a fun car, the gt2 is just so outrageously nutty, it would have to be my choice.

then again, for a daily driver, like you said, a carrera is perfectly fine, so maybe a turbo is more for a person that only wants (or can have) one car? (other than a family sedan)

[Archangel]

I just don't see how the GT2's relatively small performance bonus over the Turbo warrants that ridiculous price tag. I mean, I can understand the GT3 over the Carrera 4S, but the Turbo is just so stupidly fast - while being practical and almost sensible - that it makes pretty much every supercar look silly; and in the end, that's what it's about, innit.

That said, similar things could be said about the GT-R, so what do I know.

[BIG PIZZLE]

I dont like the spoilers on the GTs. I barely like them on the Turbos. I like my porshces the same way I like my handjobs, with a clean finish.

[}{arlequin]

i agree. its usefulness overshadows any other car in that category by a longshot. then again, ever since the 993tt came out, that has been the car's m/o

there are two types of gt2 owners. the one that simply must have the most expensive and exclusive toy otherwise he'll not be satisfied b/c his level of smugness is proportionate to how easy it is for anyone else to also have the same car, and the other is b/c he likes to push it while knowing that there is danger lurking and that makes it for a more exciting experience.

[}{arlequin]

I dont like the spoilers on the GTs. I barely like them on the Turbos. I like my porshces the same way I like my handjobs, with a clean finish.
i agree. when i get a gt3, the tail is coming off the car for around town driving. back on when heading to the track.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Most dudes out here get porsches for one reason: bitches who could care less what your rear slip differential is so long as it is not a boxter.

[Archangel]

I love the boomerang on the GT3, though.


And shit, you can get more than half a GT3 for the price difference between the Turbo and the GT2.

[Archangel]

Most dudes out here get porsches for one reason: bitches who could care less what your rear slip differential is so long as it is not a boxter.

I'm pretty sure that about five Californian Porsche drivers can even spell "differential".

[fuldstændigamok]

I might be lucky enough to own this jewel in the near future, a friend of my grandad might finally cave in after years of me pestering him.

http://i43.tinypic.com/qrakgk.jpg

[Archangel]

DS Coupé? Nice. Aren't those things super rare?


Also, lulz at the Ami. Ugliest car ever.

[Hoser]

I just don't see how the GT2's relatively small performance bonus over the Turbo warrants that ridiculous price tag. I mean, I can understand the GT3 over the Carrera 4S, but the Turbo is just so stupidly fast - while being practical and almost sensible - that it makes pretty much every supercar look silly; and in the end, that's what it's about, innit.

That said, similar things could be said about the GT-R, so what do I know.

It is like asking why would someone buy the Z06 over the regular C6. And I don't want to hear any pompous euro crap about how shitty the vette is or anything, I love a nice Euro car as much as the next person, but the Vette isn't a bad car, great speed for the money.

[Hoser]

on the contrary, i'd say it was the gt2 that looked stupid: the z06 has 90% of the gt2's performance at 50% of the cost. which one is stupid now?

I am going to have to go with the guy in the Vette who clearly thought he had a chance and then was walked by like he was standing still.

I wouldn't even say a C6 Z06 (which is a beast) has 90% of the GT2's performance, let alone a C5

sb4xJRMrAwA

[Archangel]

It is like asking why would someone buy the Z06 over the regular C6. And I don't want to hear any pompous euro crap about how shitty the vette is or anything, I love a nice Euro car as much as the next person, but the Vette isn't a bad car, great speed for the money.
I like the Vette, especially its current incarnation, and if I lived in the US, the regular C6 would be very high on my priorities list indeed - it IS some of the biggest bang for your buck you're likely to get.

[}{arlequin]

i'm just not a corvette kinda guy. yeah i'm biased towards german cars, but it's more than that. each time a corvette buy has to be qualified with "for the money". given a certain price point, a new one IS a good value/hp.

and yet every single time if i held 50k or whatever the amount for a vette in my hands, i'd look for other cars that i could get for that same money. i'm sure they would be a year or two old, but then i'd feel like i'm actually getting more for my money.

can't get past the hairy chested, gold chained stigma of having one of those.

a year old 997 = brand new corvette. between the engineering, history, durability, and prestige involved, it's a no brainer.

also, while not the prettiest, the 996 is still nicer looking than a c5, and 996's go for 20k +/-

[Face]

I think my car needs a new fanbelt... I can't decide if I'd just be better off getting a new car

[Hoser]

What kind of car?, fan belts are cheap and easy to do (I had to do one on the side of the road on a 89 Chevy Beauville as well as change a pully, it was my summer work van when I was younger)

[Gary_Busey]

I've always been a Vette guy, except for the C4. I just love the way they look, how they sit, they just look so badass to me and with the newer ones, you're getting a ton of performance for very little. I hope to own one one day.

[Hoser]

Not me. There are countless cars I would buy in the range (+-$5000) of a used Vette. Sure they are a good bang for buck, but I would take something like the Genesis coupe over a C5.

[}{arlequin]

I think my car needs a new fanbelt... I can't decide if I'd just be better off getting a new car
a belt is definitely gonna be cheaper than another car, but i understand the sentiment. i drive a car that hasn't seen an oil change in 5yrs.

that being said, if you can put together the kind of models that you do, you can certainly do basic car maintenance stuff. it's just dirtier, requires more muscle, and is on a larger scale than the models.

[Archangel]

i'm just not a corvette kinda guy. yeah i'm biased towards german cars, but it's more than that. each time a corvette buy has to be qualified with "for the money". given a certain price point, a new one IS a good value/hp.

and yet every single time if i held 50k or whatever the amount for a vette in my hands, i'd look for other cars that i could get for that same money. i'm sure they would be a year or two old, but then i'd feel like i'm actually getting more for my money.

can't get past the hairy chested, gold chained stigma of having one of those.

a year old 997 = brand new corvette. between the engineering, history, durability, and prestige involved, it's a no brainer.

also, while not the prettiest, the 996 is still nicer looking than a c5, and 996's go for 20k +/-


It's exacerbated here, because with import tariffs and VATs, Vettes cost €60k new, and that's M3 money.

[dayx]

cool

[TylerDurden]

i'm just not a corvette kinda guy. yeah i'm biased towards german cars, but it's more than that. each time a corvette buy has to be qualified with "for the money". given a certain price point, a new one IS a good value/hp.

and yet every single time if i held 50k or whatever the amount for a vette in my hands, i'd look for other cars that i could get for that same money. i'm sure they would be a year or two old, but then i'd feel like i'm actually getting more for my money.

can't get past the hairy chested, gold chained stigma of having one of those.

a year old 997 = brand new corvette. between the engineering, history, durability, and prestige involved, it's a no brainer.

also, while not the prettiest, the 996 is still nicer looking than a c5, and 996's go for 20k +/-

it's actually the only thing that we, as american auto enthusiasts, can claim as a success. they're great cars. i've flogged the piss out of a c5 z06, and while i haven't yet put my mits on a ferrari f430 (this summer, hopefully) i can safely say i can scare the shit out of myself in a z06.

the new z06 is a ferrari hunter... for $110k less. it'll do 0-63mph in less than four seconds and in first gear. the previous z06 will turn on a dime at that same speed and give you some fucking change for your troubles. i've heard the new z06 is even better. yet, despite my hands-on experience and informed high opinion of the car... i wouldn't buy one. for $72k (base price for a 2009 z06) i could have my cake and eat it, too, and that doesn't include the inherent limits found in a two-seater chevy.

i guess what i'm trying to say is... i'm one biased motherfucker.

[TylerDurden]

boom, headshot:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/BMW_V_Audi_Sign_War.jpg

[Hoser]

I hope Audi comes back with something good.

As jalopnik said, "Chess is for pussies"

[Hoser]

it's actually the only thing that we, as american auto enthusiasts, can claim as a success. they're great cars. i've flogged the piss out of a c5 z06, and while i haven't yet put my mits on a ferrari f430 (this summer, hopefully) i can safely say i can scare the shit out of myself in a z06.

the new z06 is a ferrari hunter... for $110k less. it'll do 0-63mph in less than four seconds and in first gear. the previous z06 will turn on a dime at that same speed and give you some fucking change for your troubles. i've heard the new z06 is even better. yet, despite my hands-on experience and informed high opinion of the car... i wouldn't buy one. for $72k (base price for a 2009 z06) i could have my cake and eat it, too, and that doesn't include the inherent limits found in a two-seater chevy.

i guess what i'm trying to say is... i'm one biased motherfucker.

While the Vette was fun, it did not scare my like the Viper. I got a chance to drive both at Mosport and the Viper was like a snarling Sabertooth, while the Vette was more of a pissed of house cat.

[}{arlequin]

235hp from 2.0L (in an 1800lb car)

http://alteregoracing.com/Stu.aspx

http://www.yoimg.com/i/223726366-Vargo_005.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/223726366-Vargo_005.jpg.html)

http://www.yoimg.com/i/87775431-Vargo_007.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/87775431-Vargo_007.jpg.html)

[Hoser]

I saw a Q5 on the road for the first time today, and i have ot say, if I was in the market for a small SUV that would be it, by far.

http://fathershood.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/audi_q5_s-line_1_large.jpg

[Hoser]

boom, headshot:
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/BMW_V_Audi_Sign_War.jpg

Headshot this!!!!
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/ADWAR_RatherBeDriving.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/207rkt3.jpg

[Archangel]

Meh, AMG ftw.

[}{arlequin]

co-drove my buddy's car during an enduro. he said it understeered a lot, i just didn't realize how MUCH. this was the 2nd lap after the driver change, car running video pits in for his stop

http://vimeo.com/1562270

[TylerDurden]

While the Vette was fun, it did not scare my like the Viper. I got a chance to drive both at Mosport and the Viper was like a snarling Sabertooth, while the Vette was more of a pissed of house cat.

i'm too tall to drive a viper. to be honest, i don't see how being shorter would really help either. all i see is hood. i'm sure there's a road out in front of me somewhere, but the front of the car is so fucking huge and bulbous i can't see over or around it. i dislike the viper... immensely. always have, always will.

235hp from 2.0L (in an 1800lb car)

is it wrong that i'd throw my gf out of bed to fuck this car?

Headshot this!!!!
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/ADWAR_RatherBeDriving.jpg

this is like yelram saying, "well, i got friends coming over cuz i have a life, so, uh, yeah. i guess that shows you." for a moment i thought, "touche, audi," but then the pathetic-ness of the underlying message really sank in for me. i shed a little tear for audi just then.

http://i40.tinypic.com/207rkt3.jpg

not an official image. that was someone's idea for a response, and it fucking sucks. i also saw someone suggest posting an image of the r15's lap count in some stupid fucking comparison to the m3's lap count. two different fucking classes, dolts.

[Hoser]

I have never disagreed with any post of yours as much as that one.

I have always loved the rawness of the Viper. It has always been faster and more fun then the vette.


As for Audi. I know it wasn't real, but if it was, it would have been way funnier then the BMW one.

[TylerDurden]

I have always loved the rawness of the Viper. It has always been faster and more fun then the vette.

but it's a viper... ewww. the viper is just a dumb, oafish, brute. the 'vette is more like an outlaw, a cowboy; jesse james: a little rough around the edges, but talent for days.

As for Audi. I know it wasn't real, but if it was, it would have been way funnier then the BMW one.

apples and oranges; it wouldn't have been comparable. bmw focuses their racing pursuits more on open-wheel endeavors. i don't see audi in formula one, just like i don't see bmw running the same class as audi at sebring. if they had said something relevant, i'd be all for it.

the original: winrar (http://www.eatliver.com/bmw-audi-subaru-bentley/)

[Hoser]

The Vette is something almost anyone can drive fast. The Viper is something that will scare you and kill you if you do something wrong. but if you do things right it will walk around almost anything. Hell, it(The ACR) destroyed the ZR1 on the ring.

They are both insanely fast for the money, but I would take a Viper over the dime a dozen vetters.

The sebring one I just posted becuase the cars were sex, it really wasn't funny. The Chess one made me laugh.



As I left work yesterday there was a 09 Vantage Roadster that was just ripping up the street, sounded unreal, videos on the net do the sound no justice. Today I get to the parking lot, the same car is parked next to mine, in his private spot, 1/4 in the handicap spot. I wish I had enough money to drive that and be that much of a dick and not care.

[Hoser]

If this is true then I think people have to stop saying that the GTR is not a sports car.
The 2010 Nissan GT-R is back on the Nordschleife, this time shedding two seconds to reach an impressive 7:26.7, almost besting the Corvette ZR1's 7:26.4. What could have prompted them to release this information today?

Coincidentally, Porsche announced yesterday a revised 'ring time of 7:40.0 in their 2010 Porsche 911 GT3. Not this again. Ze Germans continue to claim the Nissan is unable to run a time better than 7:54, so we imagine this conversation ain't over. Thanks to Chuck for the tip!
http://jalopnik.com/5226034/2010-nissan-gt+r-trims-nurburgring-time-to-7267

[}{arlequin]

yeah yeah.... last time nissan made news ab the 'ring it turned out it was a flying start n the car wasn't your average 'off the production line' model. impressive if it's legit, but i'm beginning to think they might be missing the forest for the trees

[Hoser]

The Vette had a flying start as well. Do any cars at the ring time on a standing start?

Again I don't know if it is true, (The GT3 is doing it in about 7:40)

[}{arlequin]

cont. from the f1 thread:

your blowjob is in the mail, sir.
in that case get your wipes ready and try not to splooge on your screen

i know this guy from the porsche boards. if he isn't a pro photog by now, he definitely should be b/c his pics are amazing. here's his work. for older stuff make sure you check out all the 'goodwood' and 'le mans classic' folders, but in reality you should go through all of them b/c there are some real gems in every folder

http://www.pbase.com/smarjoram/root&page=2



http://www.yoimg.com/i/b08435ff610194d0e92a91b4b06e707e-5228703.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/b08435ff610194d0e92a91b4b06e707e-5228703.jpg.html)



http://www.yoimg.com/i/2ec2fa180bfb5d289bea2b4a99b6e82b-522666.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/2ec2fa180bfb5d289bea2b4a99b6e82b-522666.jpg.html)



http://www.yoimg.com/i/e27981cfff081727db4e0aa4b39f878c-528534.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/e27981cfff081727db4e0aa4b39f878c-528534.jpg.html)



http://www.yoimg.com/i/50de037f300c7b2c0955049dd37bd5dc-528551.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/50de037f300c7b2c0955049dd37bd5dc-528551.jpg.html)



http://www.yoimg.com/i/073d9ec399faea39388fe3733fcfa635-329629.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/073d9ec399faea39388fe3733fcfa635-329629.jpg.html)



http://www.yoimg.com/i/6da0f2ce4a3738ff3979aad9e3869056-34997723.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/6da0f2ce4a3738ff3979aad9e3869056-34997723.jpg.html)

[}{arlequin]

The Vette had a flying start as well. Do any cars at the ring time on a standing start?

Again I don't know if it is true, (The GT3 is doing it in about 7:40)
to my knowledge, they usually do a standing start

yeah i'm a little biased, but do you really think there could be a 13 second difference from a gt3 any other way??

nissan, more power (how much is it 500? 550? don't know the published numbers)
gt3, 420 but lighter.

what i would like to know is the track conditions (traffic? or fully closed off) and what kind of tires they put on the nissan.

[Archangel]

to my knowledge, they usually do a standing start
Truth. Which is pretty significant considering the layout of the 'Ring, with the Hatzenbach corner right at the beginning. You can get through there relatively fast, but you cannot really accelerate through it.

[}{arlequin]

Truth. Which is pretty significant considering the layout of the 'Ring, with the Hatzenbach corner right at the beginning. You can get through there relatively fast, but you cannot really accelerate through it.
yeah, that's what i am thinking as well

and as far as this:
impressive if it's legit, but i'm beginning to think they might be missing the forest for the trees

i'm beginning to see the issue. b/c of its fame, and the fact that all the german hardware gets tested there, someone began to think that a good 'ring time = great car but i don't think it's the case if all you do is focus on busting out a good lap time.

barely a gallon of gas, extra sticky tires (NOT the ones you get from the dealer when you buy a car), closed off track, AND a flying lap, is not the point.

the idea is to pick a random car off the assembly, as it would be in the dealer's lot, and then we can compare things.

what's the redline set at? stock rev limiter vs. unlimited? if a car revs to 8.5k, but for the purpose of the 'test' you remove the limiter, the car will run to 9 or 9.5... at least for the duration of the lap. but is it representative of the actual car you get from the dealer?

was this just one lap attempt or can this car run this kind of laptime (+/- 2 sec) all day long?

it just seems to me like they're trying really hard to prove something by putting up a laptime, w/o delving into the actual driving vs. durability/repeatability issue.

sure, any car can be made real fast for one lap.

german cars seem to use the 'ring to GAUGE their improvements, whereas everyone else seems to shoot for that one ultimate lap time

i see this at the track all the time. car is blazingly fast for a few laps, then it has to park b/c things are reaching critical temps.

[Archangel]

I remember when Audi took over Lamborghini, one of their goals in building the Murciélago was to shave one minute off the Diablo's 'Ring lap. Which was pretty damned impressive - and I agree with }{ here - because it was also a vastly superior all around car.

[TylerDurden]

the nissan's bragging about the nurburgring doesn't sit well with me. i think it's great that they chose the de facto local badass to aspire to. it appears they hit their mark, but i can guaran-fucking-tee that joe plumber isn't going to buy one from the $tealership and hit that mark while he's passing through.

professional driver, closed course, kumho v710s at the least. it's a sure bet that they built one mule to withstand the abuse of the nordschleife, but i suspect none of that durability was passed on to the siblings.

[Gary_Busey]

Every company is going to have a pro do the driving. I just want the companies to have everything stock. It's deceiving when they change shit up and claim the time as a stock time.

[Archangel]

To be fair, Porsche's Nürburgring laps are usually driven by Walther Röhrl, who is pretty much considered the greatest rallye driver ever...

[Hoser]

to my knowledge, they usually do a standing start

yeah i'm a little biased, but do you really think there could be a 13 second difference from a gt3 any other way??

nissan, more power (how much is it 500? 550? don't know the published numbers)
gt3, 420 but lighter.

what i would like to know is the track conditions (traffic? or fully closed off) and what kind of tires they put on the nissan.

As soon as I find out I will post it.

It does seem odd that a car that weights that much would go that fast, I could only think it would be because of electronic gizmo's and the AWD. BUt I am sure it will be posted.

[Hoser]

yeah, that's what i am thinking as well

and as far as this:


i'm beginning to see the issue. b/c of its fame, and the fact that all the german hardware gets tested there, someone began to think that a good 'ring time = great car but i don't think it's the case if all you do is focus on busting out a good lap time.

barely a gallon of gas, extra sticky tires (NOT the ones you get from the dealer when you buy a car), closed off track, AND a flying lap, is not the point.

the idea is to pick a random car off the assembly, as it would be in the dealer's lot, and then we can compare things.

what's the redline set at? stock rev limiter vs. unlimited? if a car revs to 8.5k, but for the purpose of the 'test' you remove the limiter, the car will run to 9 or 9.5... at least for the duration of the lap. but is it representative of the actual car you get from the dealer?

was this just one lap attempt or can this car run this kind of laptime (+/- 2 sec) all day long?

it just seems to me like they're trying really hard to prove something by putting up a laptime, w/o delving into the actual driving vs. durability/repeatability issue.

sure, any car can be made real fast for one lap.

german cars seem to use the 'ring to GAUGE their improvements, whereas everyone else seems to shoot for that one ultimate lap time

i see this at the track all the time. car is blazingly fast for a few laps, then it has to park b/c things are reaching critical temps.

All that stuff I agree with, but I am sure that all of that stuff is done by all manufactures, not just Nissan. Hell I know GM and Dodge had running starts and not sure what else when they set the crazy times (ZR1 being the fastest and less then a month later the Viper ACR stomping it)

[Hoser]

the nissan's bragging about the nurburgring doesn't sit well with me. i think it's great that they chose the de facto local badass to aspire to. it appears they hit their mark, but i can guaran-fucking-tee that joe plumber isn't going to buy one from the $tealership and hit that mark while he's passing through.

professional driver, closed course, kumho v710s at the least. it's a sure bet that they built one mule to withstand the abuse of the nordschleife, but i suspect none of that durability was passed on to the siblings.

Do you think any joe schmo who buys any car will get anywhere near the numbers that and manufacture gets?? Not a chance.

We cannot say that Nissan or anyone does alter the car, but if one does it then it is fairly safe ot say that all or most do as well.

Every company is going to have a pro do the driving. I just want the companies to have everything stock. It's deceiving when they change shit up and claim the time as a stock time.

To be fare, we don't know if they changed or change anything. But we do know they use pro drivers, hell it just wouldn't be safe to do otherwise. "Hey random guy off the street, want to get into this 550+ hp rocket and drive around a race track as fast as you can? Thanks"

[dnegreiro]

does anyone know if any channel in america covers world rally championship?

[}{arlequin]

To be fare, we don't know if they changed or change anything.
very true, but b/c of what they did last time people (and i) are gonna wonder

[}{arlequin]

does anyone know if any channel in america covers world rally championship?
used to be on speedvision/speedtv

lately, if you're not up at 3am ish, you won't catch the broadcasts

[dnegreiro]

so wait, is it still on speed?

[Hoser]

http://www.speedtv.com/ (http://www.meatspin.com)

Not sure, but that should help you.

[dnegreiro]

i wanna poke my eyes out

[Hoser]

I'm not sure which is uglier, the car or the girl next to the car

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/McLaren_SLR_999_red_gold.jpg
This very special Mercedes SLR McLaren Red Gold Dream has been adorned with 500 rubies and 14k gold, transforming a once unassuming super car into something truly eye-catching.

A model of restraint and good taste, the builders focused on adding mechanical function before applying the classy finishes. The new front splitter, an excellent match for the SLR's styling, adds 220 Lbs of downforce at the vehicle's top speed: 217 MPH. That 9 MPH increase is thanks to engine tuning which brings the power up to 999 HP.

At the rear, a small increase in spoiler size and a revised diffuser, accented with gold trim, increase downforce by 80kg.

Of course, going that fast also requires excellent vision and to that effect 500 LEDs have been discretely incorporated in the revised bodywork. Even the functional ducts on the SLRs flanks are capable of lighting up in vibrant color to boost safety.

"Now, wait, gold is hardly an ideal material for automotive applications." I hear you saying. Do not worry! Areas under particular stress have been coated in 24k gold for enhanced durability. In order to avoid melting the gold in the area of the door sills due to increased exhaust gas temperatures, the exhaust pipes have been wrapped in a special insulating blanket. The car's makers have helpfully positioned mirrors on the floor underneath the car so that visitors may be able to view this enhancement.

Neither has the interior been neglected in this comprehensive improvement program. The leather has been painted gold, while buttons are in either gold or ruby.

As a final flourish, the wheel centers have had a simply extravagant gold and ruby SLR logo reimagined in the style of a dollar sign. This hints at the car's value, estimated to be $4.3 million. [via Autoblog.nl]

[Archangel]

So which Muslim country is that abomination going to?

[Hoser]

New laws introduced by the UK's Labour party to force racial and sexual diversity in all state-funded endeavors may inadvertently force Top Gear to add new characters just to hit quota. Yay, Big Brother!

Nothing peeves us off more than the man (non-gender specific men, of course) sticking his nose into places it doesn't belong, especially when it means putting the winning cast of characters on Top Gear into the blender. The changes introduced by the Labour party's deputy leader Harriet Harman place an aim at equality in the government workplace, a euphemism for giving jobs to people who, you know, obviously earned them. Since Top Gear is run by the government-funded BBC, it would have to comply with these rules as there's specifically no exemption for broadcasters. Maybe it's just the old boys club mentality, but this whole idea stinks to high heaven. [DailyMail]

Get ready to welcome D'Alcapone Alpaccino Morris and Hameeda Bin Mohammed to the show.

[Archangel]

And some hairy lesbian.


How in the fuck did these sissies ever beat us?

[Claydon]

You guys are behind the times, we have been forced to meet racial quotas for decades.

[Archangel]

Kindly explain the cast of Friends, then.

[Claydon]

Kindly explain the cast of Friends, then.

look at the average crew for a shuttle mission.

you will always see (usually) 1 woman, 1 black man/woman, 1 asian etc.

I am not suggesting these people are not qualified to do what is they are doing but NASA has to do this to meet the quota as well as put forth the the image of diversity.

now im sure i will get a ton of shit for this, and this is the wrong thread to discuss this in.

so i will exit stage left.

[Archangel]

PC-ness is for the gayz.


Literally.

[Rafczy]

Kindly explain the cast of Friends, then.
Ross had jungle fever.

[Ethix]

Do you think any joe schmo who buys any car will get anywhere near the numbers that and manufacture gets??



Hate to bring back an old topic, but I'd be willing to bet a random person off the street could drive the GTR faster around a track than any car in it's class. ZR1s, Vipers, GT3s, etc, would all probably cause death to any inexperienced drivers that tried to drive them at even 75% of the cars limits. That's one of the reasons people are falling in love with the GTR.

I read an article somewhere about what was done to the GTR's to achieve those times. I'll have to see if I can find it. I know the tires are completely different and I think it was running on the new V-Spec wheels which are lighter. I can't remember what else it had done to it though.

[Hoser]

I agree, all the electronics make it easier to drive faster, but they still wouldn't have it at it's limits. I just can't wait for the Spec-V to come out, should give the ZR-1 something more to sweat about.

[Archangel]

Hate to bring back an old topic, but I'd be willing to bet a random person off the street could drive the GTR faster around a track than any car in it's class. ZR1s, Vipers, GT3s, etc, would all probably cause death to any inexperienced drivers that tried to drive them at even 75% of the cars limits. That's one of the reasons people are falling in love with the GTR.



What about, say, M5s and Turbos?

[Hoser]

Porsches have oversteer, a lot (this is bad for most people), although new Porsches have been designed, for the most part, to understeer a bit.

M5, well 500HP and rwd tend to scare most people.

AWD and electrical goodies keep people safe and allow them to push limits they otherwise wouldn't even think of touching.

That being said, any new car that has electronics watching your back will allow you to push further than without, but I have heard that the GTR is pretty easy to drive.

[fuldstændigamok]

This guy is not so clumsy

http://izismile.com/2009/04/30/car_made_with_polyurethane_foam_pics.html

[}{arlequin]

Hate to bring back an old topic, but I'd be willing to bet a random person off the street could drive the GTR faster around a track than any car in it's class. ZR1s, Vipers, GT3s, etc, would all probably cause death to any inexperienced drivers that tried to drive them at even 75% of the cars limits. That's one of the reasons people are falling in love with the GTR.
not exactly easy. any retard can overcome the laws of physics


g3mppVrzVOE

[}{arlequin]

Porsches have oversteer, a lot (this is bad for most people), although new Porsches have been designed, for the most part, to understeer a bit.
no. all cars have oversteer from two things, going into the corner too hot, or lifting off the gas mid corner. 911's are simply tougher to handle once it does happen.

yes, as far as modern ones having built in understeer

[Hoser]

Not all cars have oversteer, some naturally have understeer. Not to say they cannot be persuaded into oversteer, but it does not always happen. If you take a FWD car into a corner to hot there will be understeer, this is also true for some RWD cars. They just cannot overcome momentum.

I am just saying that due to being RWD they had a tendency to have more oversteer.

[TylerDurden]

Not all cars have oversteer, some naturally have understeer.

it can be said that most RWD-powered vehicles have at least a touch of oversteer. the amount varies on the weight distribution and balance. m5s will remind you that you're just a man if you push it around a corner, or show it weakness. it also weighs as much as a fucking barge, so you do the math.

most of a car's handling characteristics (oversteer, understeer, "wheel-hop," etc.) are a culmination of its suspension components (sway bars, type of control arms, bushing material and rigidity, tire size and compound, etc) and those components ability to counter-act the car's natural tendencies to conform to the laws of physics.

Not to say they cannot be persuaded into oversteer, but it does not always happen. If you take a FWD car into a corner to hot there will be understeer, this is also true for some RWD cars. They just cannot overcome momentum.

I am just saying that due to being RWD they had a tendency to have more oversteer.

for those rwd cars that have a touch of understeer it's far easier to make them conform to oversteer, because those understeer tendencies are engineered that way and not a result of natural behavior. you can't deny physics.

[}{arlequin]

what i meant was that every car can be made to oversteer BUT while it is easier on rwd cars, if you drive them correctly, NONE will have it. it is all dependent on the driver. once you do get to the oversteer, then depending on the car it will be easier or harder to manage. i just don't agree w/ condemning a car b/c it does something. that something is usually a result of driver error.

[Archangel]

"Ass-engined nazi slot cars" (PJ O'Rourke) ftw.

[TylerDurden]

what i meant was that every car can be made to oversteer BUT while it is easier on rwd cars, if you drive them correctly, NONE will have it. it is all dependent on the driver. once you do get to the oversteer, then depending on the car it will be easier or harder to manage. i just don't agree w/ condemning a car b/c it does something. that something is usually a result of driver error.

i agree with these sentiments, though i've been guilty of condemning cars for one reason or another. i'd like to think that my opinions are a bit more educated than others, surely not as educated as professionals, but more so than the average joe.

not to get off on a tangent, but the dodge viper, for example, is one of those cars. every generation of that car has felt like they simply took a great-looking car and threw ungodly amounts of horsepower at it. any porsche owner (}{, i'm sure you can vouch) will be the first to say that it doesn't take a ridiculous amount of horsepower to make a car fast. some people like the car, though, either because it was designed by carroll shelby or because they think they're badass for coming close to controlling the uncontrollable; taming the beast, so to speak. in the end i'm just not sure how anyone can like a car that allows them the illusion of control, as opposed to actually giving them control. sorry, kids, i'm more worried about improving my lap time tenths of a second every lap (requiring consistency and a firm driving hand; neither of which the viper affords) than i am about appearing to tame the bull. i've been around these cars enough to know the difference.

[}{arlequin]

in the end i'm just not sure how anyone can like a car that allows them the illusion of control, as opposed to actually giving them control.
this is one of the reasons i'm not a fan of 911tt's, skylines, etc etc.

[TylerDurden]

this is one of the reasons i'm not a fan of 911tt's, skylines, etc etc.

i've found that turbocharged cars require a bit of extra care when flogging the piss out of them, simply because when one doesn't know what one is doing that boost can really fuck up your day.

as an example i was at an event a few years back as a guest driver for a friend of mine. he had just made his fd rx-7 track-worthy, but didn't have slicks for it just yet. i was initially hesitant to properly flog it, because i find that i'm much better when the car isn't mine (so much in fact that i have yet to fail to out-drive someone in their own car, but i digress) for some reason, but after a little cajoling i finally gave in.

i'd ridden in, researched, and familiarized myself with this car prior to actually putting in any hot laps, so i thought i was good to go. fuck, i was wrong. i fucked up and treated it like it was similar to something else i had driven, and the car bitch-slapped me for it.

i was a good three-quarters through the first sector, turn five of the track; a moderately long but sharp decreasing-radius. usually something like this would require hard-braking prior to turning in, finding the sweet spot at lower rpms to keep the power until the last second when you just let off the gas and ride out the remainder of the corner under engine braking before climbing all over the pedal again on exit.

the rx-7 is an interesting bird in that it's sequentially turbocharged; that is to say it has very defined points in the rpm range (1400 and 4700, respectively, iirc) in which the turbos are most effective. prior to the first turbo spooling up the car's a fucking pooch. the fd's motor is shit before 1400 rpm, and after braking in the last part of the corner it dropped off too suddenly for me. i lost my momentum three-quarters of the way through the corner, so in a split-second's decision i went to correct and salvage my hot lap, but i wasn't expecting to eat my way through the rpm range so quickly. i over-corrected, the boost came on strong enough to give the car a solid jolt and excess power at the rear, and that's all she wrote. with slicks i might have saved it, but with the street rubber we were on i ate up any grip those tires had remaining and sent them over the edge. she lost grip, the ass came out; in went the clutch and brake.

i finished my lap at half-power, put her back in the paddock, and had a chitty-chat with my buddy after making sure i didn't fuck something up. i gave him fair warning about the corner, and he played it MUCH safer than i did. when we swapped again i had to man-up and take the corner faster than my testicles would have liked, but when that corner started to die i was up in the boost already, so the power delivery was predictable and i was able to take the corner as i wanted.

i learned a couple valuable lessons that day: watch the boost, and fortune favors the brave.

[}{arlequin]

^in my prior i was mostly referring to the 4wd+sensors+electronics doing all the driving for you, though i agree w/ your turbo story. not so much an issue on the newer cars that have minimal if not zero lag, nor on track cars w/ a preset boost level.

then again, left foot braking goes quite nicely w/ cars that have finicky or rapid boost delivery. audi drivers from the 80's made that discovery.

[TylerDurden]

^in my prior i was mostly referring to the 4wd+sensors+electronics doing all the driving for you, though i agree w/ your turbo story. not so much an issue on the newer cars that have minimal if not zero lag, nor on track cars w/ a preset boost level.

while i can appreciate awd, electronics, and the like i feel that it takes the skill out of driving and is no fun. if i don't have to peel the track suit away from my body at the end of the day, i wasn't driving hard enough. and that car should sweat just as much as i do. thankfully, i've had limited experience with those types of cars and i'm not anxious for more other than to gain experience and become a more well-rounded driver.

yah, a boost controller would have been nice in that instance, but alas he didn't feel it worth it since he was running stock turbos. much to my (and his) chagrin that car was his daily driver for a time. lol.

then again, left foot braking goes quite nicely w/ cars that have finicky or rapid boost delivery. audi drivers from the 80's made that discovery.

haha, yah. left-foot braking... the skill that every driver strives so hard to grasp like it was breathing. it's a slow process to learn that skill; one that i'm always trying to perfect, but very mindful where i practice it. it's all about using an "then" unfamiliar part of your body to take in subtle changes in the car and apply that subtlety to the brake pedal. in the beginning it always seemed like i'd slam the fuck out of the brakes, even though it felt like i was barely breathing on them.

[TylerDurden]

unrelated: pos-rep for anyone who can find me speed lube's corporate phone number.

[}{arlequin]

lfb can be tricky but it actually gets easier the faster you go. it's not really for absolute slowing down but rather to lose 15-20mph w/o lifting off the gas. even w/o turbos i find it useful in off-camber corners or just to settle the car down a bit

[Hoser]

unrelated: pos-rep for anyone who can find me speed lube's corporate phone number.

408 Johnson St
Pocahontas, IL 62275
United States
Phone: (618) 669-2333
Fax: (618) 669-2889

[IdiotBrain]

As far as AWD vehicles are concerned, I wouldn't mind a Celica GT-four.


Sexy little beasts.

[Trident]

A cock having a go on an F1 simulator:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/newsbeat/newsid_7965000/7965045.stm

[}{arlequin]

here we go... as unbiased comparo as i have seen to this point: http://magazines.drivers-republic.com/driversrepublic/thetruth030/?fm=2

plus some nice pics + vids


http://www.yoimg.com/i/f0d8a1818298913cda38e9995b05966c-truth.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/f0d8a1818298913cda38e9995b05966c-truth.jpg.html)

[Ethix]

Definitely a good read. More than likely, the small changes made to the GTR by Nissan when they do laps were enough to bring the lap time down by the 6.9 seconds. Not bad for a car that's roughly $110k less than the the GT2.

I'd still rather have a GT3 than a GT2.

New GTR+New GT3=Price of a GT2.

[}{arlequin]

btw in case anyone doubts the skill of the driver(s) in the article:

chris harris has a ton of porsche and other marque race experience, he races a cup car in the VLN race series [11 races/year at the 'ring] and has driven a porsche rs spyder at some looong race in a village in france... not too shabby

[The Dude]

i can certainly google and find deals and shit like that, but i was wondering if any of you have a preferred source on the web for auto parts? i need to get new brakes for my car and wanted to get a little higher end/performance. It's an 02 vw passat, daily driver, but it does go so i like to have some fun sometimes...bottom line, not a track car or anything like that.

so in sum, 2 questions:

1. good place for parts online (specifically brakes)

2. will higher end/performance brakes even make a diference given my usage?

[Ethix]

TireRack.com usually has a pretty good selection of performance pads. They also have customer reviews for pretty much everything they sell.

I had Hawk HPS Performance street pads on my WRX for a while and while they stopped quite a bit better than the stock pads, they were noisy as hell. It seems to be kind of a trade off. All my friends who have switched to performance pads have had noise issues at one time or another.

Currently I'm using a set of Autozone Ceramic pads and they seem to stop roughly the same as the factory pads. They are also extremely quiet and I get very little brake dust.

[Hoser]

How much are you looking to spend on these brakes.

[Archangel]

Mercedes, what the fuck, man.

http://i39.tinypic.com/16kq3qh.jpg

[}{arlequin]

i can certainly google and find deals and shit like that, but i was wondering if any of you have a preferred source on the web for auto parts? i need to get new brakes for my car and wanted to get a little higher end/performance. It's an 02 vw passat, daily driver, but it does go so i like to have some fun sometimes...bottom line, not a track car or anything like that.

so in sum, 2 questions:

1. good place for parts online (specifically brakes)

2. will higher end/performance brakes even make a diference given my usage?
i'd get brembo rotors in the exact same size that your car needs (ie: 'oem replacement') do NOT get the crossdrilled versions. just regular vented discs. tire rack has them, this place might as well: http://www.vertexautoparts.com/ so just shop around, though i doubt the difference will be that much on brand name items

majority of the difference you'll see is due to the pads. i'd go w/ a slightly hotter compound and either get hawk 'hps' (high perf street), or perf. friction 'z-rated'

i get them here, but other places carry them too. though, tire rack seems to skip certain brands, not sure why

http://www.raceshopper.com/hawk_brake_compounds.shtml

http://www.raceshopper.com/performance_friction_compounds.shtml


i'd also flush/bleed the brake fluid. just need patience and a helper if you don't have access to a fancy bleeder. i'd get two cans to make sure you get the entire brake fluid 'replaced'.

before bleeding (and w/ the old brakes still on), i'd go screw around a bit and hit the brakes hard enough to activate abs. 3-4 times should do it. this will cycle the old fluid out of the abs unit that's been sitting there since new and would not get flushed w/ a regular brake bleed. after that i'd proceed w/ the bleed.

as for fluid, ate 'gold' (200) but not the ate blue.
http://www.raceshopper.com/brake_fluid.shtml

don't bother w/ castrol srf, that's what f1 teams use and you'll see it by the price difference. worth every penny but not on the street.

[}{arlequin]

and yes, better pad compound will be noticeable, just can't go overboard (more isn't more) b/c the 'better' compounds also require more heat to work effectively.

brake fluid absorbs moisture and loses its non-compressibility over time. moisture boils and gets turned into steam under high temp and then you end up w/ air bubbles in the system which are compressible and you get a spongy pedal feel.

[}{arlequin]

either the jeep got resprayed or he swapped it

http://forum.gorillamask.net/showpost.php?p=566702&postcount=54566


http://www.yoimg.com/i/7d46756579773ddafe36c261076a4e54-photo.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/7d46756579773ddafe36c261076a4e54-photo.jpg.html)

[Gary_Busey]

The new Acura TL is no where near as sexy as the old one.

[satandole666]

Any of you guys car audio experts?

I need to replace the rear speakers in my 2002 Alero GLS. This wouldn't normally be a problem, but I read somewhere that they are Bi-Amp speakers. What the hell is this? Are they expensive? Will regular speakers work in their place?

Not looking to spend a lot of money, I'm just tired of blown stock speakers.

[6655321]

2002 alero, motherfuckin tight ride, brah.

[satandole666]

I hope that's sarcasm. I hate that fucking car.

EDIT: Now that I realize it, that was kind of irrelevant to the question. I wasn't trying to brag at all, that car blows.

[6655321]

it's ok, my car sucks too.

[Hodge]

Fuck bi-amped. Just find out the size and replace them. Any speaker should work. If you wanna do yourself a favor get a high-pass filter (capacitor) to put in line with the wires so you don't blow some decent speakers.

[satandole666]

Fuck bi-amped. Just find out the size and replace them. Any speaker should work. If you wanna do yourself a favor get a high-pass filter (capacitor) to put in line with the wires so you don't blow some decent speakers.

I'm still going to use the stock stereo. Will normal speakers work in place of the bi-amped without any changes?

[Hoser]

DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON A CAP!!!!!!

[Hoser]

It is a sad day in the automotive world

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/06/Burnt_McLaren.jpg

http://jalopnik.com/5274562/2-million-mclaren-f1-self+immolates-in-sickening-conflagration

[Rumpleforeskin]

Ouch!

[Trident]

Christ, that really is depressing.

However, Mclaren will be rubbing their hands considering how much they'll charge to fix that.

[Rumpleforeskin]

Is there anyway to turn off the damn seatbelt chime in a car? If I bought another seatbelt buckle sans strap, would that work?

[}{arlequin]

Is there anyway to turn off the damn seatbelt chime in a car? If I bought another seatbelt buckle sans strap, would that work?
it should... just enough to complete the circuit.

unless there's another sensor/switch in the seatbelt reel itself....

[Rumpleforeskin]

I'm thinking it may be in the seat itself, and be weight sensitive.Goddamn it's annoying. Even if I'm at a complete standstill getting the mail, it starts making noise at me if the seatbelt isn't buckled.

Update: The magical internet offered me a way to reprogram the system without modding (read: breaking) anything.

[}{arlequin]

guess it depends on how technologically advanced is your vehicle... thought it only bothered you when in the car so the weight sensor didn't really matter.

what was the solution you found?

[Rumpleforeskin]

it says to:

-Buckle seatbelt with engine off
-Turn on ignition
-wait for chime to end
-unbuckle and rebuckle 4 times
-Turn off ignition.


I'm off to check it out. I googled "turn off seatbelt chime jeep" and got 122,000 hits

[}{arlequin]

it would probably be easier to just pull the fuse... but i'm curious to hear if it worked

[Hoser]

Why not just wear your seatbelt?

[}{arlequin]

you don't die as easily

[merlin13]

it says to:

-Buckle seatbelt with engine off
-Turn on ignition
-wait for chime to end
-unbuckle and rebuckle 4 times
-Turn off ignition.


I'm off to check it out. I googled "turn off seatbelt chime jeep" and got 122,000 hits

If that didn't work and it is a sensor in the seat...
Find the sensor, usually bottom center, and rig the contacts so that the cicuit is closed. It thinks you are sitting in the seat and won't chime. I worked for a guy who had either a 2005 or 06 Ranger and all you had to do is hit the red button on the buckle reciever to turn off the chime.

[Rumpleforeskin]

I used the buckle/unbuckle method and so far it works. It took about 4-5 tries. I still going wear my seatbelt most of the time, but at least that annoying fucker doesn't start chiming in constantly.

Oh yeah, apparently this works on all new(er) model Chryslers.

[Michael Phelps]

I always wear my seatbelt

[Ethix]

Why not just wear your seatbelt?


Seriously.

I've worn my seatbelt since my older sister first learned how to drive.

I don't see any reason not to wear one.

[Face]

2 reasons why in my life I've gone periods without wearing a seatbelt

1: I was a courier for a couple years in my early 20s, and I was making dozens of stops every day, getting in and out every couple minutes, it eventually came to be too much of a hassle to buckle up... not to mention that I fell into a legal loophole that actually made it legal to drive without a seatbelt

2: some cars have an awkwardly placed shoulder strap, the edge of which runs right across my neck... I knew a guy in college who was killed in the same circumstance when he got in an accident and the strap cut his jugular... as a result, I will not wear a seatbelt that fits me that way

[POO POO CANNON]

I don't ever not wear my seatbelt. It's just so drilled into my head that before I do anything I usually buckle up. I sometimes get on my passengers for it to, if someone hits me and I go rolling about (I drive a Yukon), I don't want them soaring around my car like a fucking F-16 smashing into everyone else.

Also, I've just seen too much terrible driving to trust the other people on the road around me enough to not wear my seatbelt.

[Hoser]

2 reasons why in my life I've gone periods without wearing a seatbelt

1: I am too fat

2: I am lazy

[Hoser]

Holy shit

hqRyufZugQ4


Not wearing a seatbelt is a good idea...

LKV-XXxg-9c

[Gary_Busey]

I thought the TDI diesel engines were supposed to get better gas mileage than they're advertising on the commercials.

[confusedwiseman]

I'm pretty sure a seat belt would have done much to help in that instance.

[Hoser]

Gas milage has alot to do with how you drive.

[BIG PIZZLE]

sZvYo1glfFw

[Hoser]

I like.

[}{arlequin]

i just can't take volvos seriously from a performance point of view. despite the btcc success. that being said, i'd like to have a t5r

[Gary_Busey]

Gas milage has alot to do with how you drive.
No shit. I'm talking advertised claims.

[POO POO CANNON]

Okay, so I got a question for you guys. Me and my buddies (all of us fairly car savvy) got into an intense argument this morning about shifting into neutral at a red light/in a stop sign. In an automatic car, of course.

It goes like this, I have a buddy who shifts into neutral all the fucking time when at a red light. To avoid "strain on the transmission" he says. Even if he's going to be sitting there for a few seconds, he'll do it. He even does it when he's coasting up to a red light and then will shift back into a drive gear before he stops (but that isn't the crux of our issue). I say this will pooch his car faster, rather than saving its life, but a few buddies disagree.

Help me out here, is it good to shift into neutral at red lights? What about if you were sitting for a couple of minutes? (I said that would be okay).

[Gary_Busey]

I'm willing to wager it makes little-to-no difference in the long run.

[POO POO CANNON]

Well shit. I came here so you guys could tell me what's up so I wouldn't have to apologize for calling him a car abusing thundercunt.

[Hoser]

Yeah he isnt hurting it. He probably isnt helping it either. Like gary said, little to no difference in the long run.

[}{arlequin]

In an automatic car, of course.

It goes like this, I have a buddy who shifts into neutral all the fucking time when at a red light. To avoid "strain on the transmission" he says. Even if he's going to be sitting there for a few seconds, he'll do it. He even does it when he's coasting up to a red light and then will shift back into a drive gear before he stops (but that isn't the crux of our issue). I say this will pooch his car faster, rather than saving its life, but a few buddies disagree.

Help me out here, is it good to shift into neutral at red lights? What about if you were sitting for a couple of minutes? (I said that would be okay).
your friend is a retard.

the wear from his activities is negligible and the car will still outlast him. the biggest damage will come from coasting up to a light and shifting into drive. and you should never be coasting in neutral in the first place.

sounds like he wants, or likes to pretend, that he has a manual car. that makes him a retard x2

[Ethix]

sounds like he wants, or likes to pretend, that he has a manual car. that makes him a retard x2

This sounds about right. I used to know a guy when I was in high school who would put his car (Fox body Mustang) in neutral at lights that are on a hill so he could roll back a little before he took off. Everyone thought his car was a manual.

He also had a 6" Autometer tach with a shift light on his dash, but that's another story.

Basically, your friend is an idiot.

[The Dude]

http://stylecrave.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Hamann-Typhoon-based-on-Mercedes-G55-AMG-1.jpg

[Gary_Busey]

Ewwwww.

[Archangel]

http://stylecrave.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/Hamann-Typhoon-based-on-Mercedes-G55-AMG-1.jpg

Yeah, saw that shit in Top Gear magazine; looks like someone decided that the TechArt Magnum wasn't quite vulgar enough...

I love the G-Wagen, and would buy a G400 CDI in a heartbeat, but that thing is just bloody atrocious.

[Hoser]

So they took the ugliest SUV on the road and made it uglier?? Congrats....

[Archangel]

The G is not an SUV.

It's an off road vehicle developed for the German army and made available for the civilian market. Its name (Geländewagen) means "off road vehicle", for fuck's sake, and it pulls Humvees out of the mud in Trashcanistan. Two wheel drive Blazers driven by 5' women are SUVs.

Plus, while its pendants, the Defender, the Jeep and the original Humvee, have the beauty of pure function, the H2 is FAR uglier than the G.

[Archangel]

As is the Cayenne, by the way.

[Gary_Busey]

I would love to get an old CJ7 and tear up some trails around here. Maybe when I've reached 'disposable income' level.

[}{arlequin]

i'll take plain vanilla g-wagen w/ the biggest engine please. in black.

[Hoser]

The G is not an SUV.

It's an off road vehicle developed for the German army and made available for the civilian market. Its name (Geländewagen) means "off road vehicle", for fuck's sake, and it pulls Humvees out of the mud in Trashcanistan. Two wheel drive Blazers driven by 5' women are SUVs.

Plus, while its pendants, the Defender, the Jeep and the original Humvee, have the beauty of pure function, the H2 is FAR uglier than the G.

You are really touchy.

I call it an SUV, it is used by most as an SUV, and is classed as an SUV. You may have a raging hardon for it, but it is butt ugly and like most SUV, never sees anything but pavement.

Yes the H2 is very ugly, it is in the same class as the G and the 1st gen Cayenne.

It may be great off-road, I am not denying that, but it is still an SUV, it may have been born a pure off-roader, but it has evolved into much more.

Who wants to count how many times they mention the word SUV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class

Also
This model family, which is acknowledged to be the best in the off-road sector, bears the succinct "G" prefix in addition to the Mercedes star, has won the Paris-Dakar Rally, is a means of transport considered fitting for the Holy Father, has become an automotive styling icon, continues to emerge victorious in reader votes and represents the gene pool for the Mercedes-Benz SUV family, which has meanwhile grown to five model series
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/17/mercedes-celebrates-30-years-of-the-g-wagen-with-special-edition/

Even Mercedes calls it an SUV
http://i43.tinypic.com/i22g5w.jpg
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/#/vehiclesMenu/

[POO POO CANNON]

Who wants to count how many times they mention the word SUV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class

cntrl + F tells me the answer is 6.

I like the G550, but have had some bad experiences. Just a sign of the times with M-B.

Also, real men drive Yukons.

[ShitBreak]

I just got my tie rod, a bunch of busted bolts, and my CV joints on the front end of my car replaced for 200 bucks. Take that shit to a regular auto shop, and it's gonna cost you close to a Grand.

God bless America Japan. This 91 Camry is going to last me another 10 fucking years.

[Archangel]

I call it an SUV, it is used by most as an SUV, and is classed as an SUV. You may have a raging hardon for it, but it is butt ugly

When did I ever say it was "good looking"? Who gives a shit about the looks of a military piece of hardware?


and like most SUV, never sees anything but pavement.

What's the expression again?

Oh, right, "bullshit"...

http://img161.imagevenue.com/loc538/th_76865_agf_25_gr_122_538lo.jpg (http://img161.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76865_agf_25_gr_122_538lo.jpg)http://img258.imagevenue.com/loc12/th_76873_bild-canada-2004-afghanistan-1_122_12lo.jpg (http://img258.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76873_bild-canada-2004-afghanistan-1_122_12lo.jpg)http://img193.imagevenue.com/loc181/th_76873_bild-g-mil-4_122_181lo.jpg (http://img193.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76873_bild-g-mil-4_122_181lo.jpg)http://img141.imagevenue.com/loc380/th_76878_bild-isaf-d_122_380lo.jpg (http://img141.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76878_bild-isaf-d_122_380lo.jpg)
http://img198.imagevenue.com/loc828/th_76898_kskilsd01ae2_122_828lo.jpg (http://img198.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76898_kskilsd01ae2_122_828lo.jpg)htt p://img178.imagevenue.com/loc255/th_76904_MB250GD_Wolf_122_255lo.jpg (http://img178.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76904_MB250GD_Wolf_122_255lo.jpg)htt p://img101.imagevenue.com/loc558/th_76906_us_ifav_g_wagon-002_122_558lo.jpg (http://img101.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76906_us_ifav_g_wagon-002_122_558lo.jpg)http://img226.imagevenue.com/loc408/th_76908_USMC_Fast_Attack_Vehicle_7IFAV3_1_122_408 lo.jpg (http://img226.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76908_USMC_Fast_Attack_Vehicle_7IFAV 3_1_122_408lo.jpg)http://img172.imagevenue.com/loc68/th_76909_wolf_02_122_68lo.jpg (http://img172.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76909_wolf_02_122_68lo.jpg)

I don't see spinning rims or kids being driven to "soccer" practice here.


It may be great off-road, I am not denying that, but it is still an SUV, it may have been born a pure off-roader, but it has evolved into much more.

It is what it is, no matter what fat American housewives and rappers want it to be. I mean, kindly explain to me why in its country of origin, the vast majority of Gs are sold with stump-pulling diesel engines and used by hunters or forest rangers, its main user (army) aside.

Who wants to count how many times they mention the word SUV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_G-Class

When was the expression "SUV" first used? Because I'm pretty sure that the G is older than the concept.

Also

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/17/mercedes-celebrates-30-years-of-the-g-wagen-with-special-edition/

Even Mercedes calls it an SUV
http://i43.tinypic.com/i22g5w.jpg
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/#/vehiclesMenu/



In North America.

Where they also call the 500 models "550" because 500 isn't ostentatious enough, 80% of the people buying them have no idea what it stands for, anyway (let alone why it has three diff locks), and where people need easy classifications.

Forgive me if I'm not convinced. Arabs probably call the E63 AMG a "subcompact", but that don't make it so.

[Hoser]

When did I ever say it was "good looking"? Who gives a shit about the looks of a military piece of hardware?

When you said the H2 is far uglier, you were implying it looked better. I think they both look like shit.

And yes if it is being used by military personal, then looks will not matter. But people who buy them and use them as DD's, looks should matter a bit.



What's the expression again?

Oh, right, "bullshit"...

http://img161.imagevenue.com/loc538/th_76865_agf_25_gr_122_538lo.jpg (http://img161.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76865_agf_25_gr_122_538lo.jpg)http://img258.imagevenue.com/loc12/th_76873_bild-canada-2004-afghanistan-1_122_12lo.jpg (http://img258.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76873_bild-canada-2004-afghanistan-1_122_12lo.jpg)http://img193.imagevenue.com/loc181/th_76873_bild-g-mil-4_122_181lo.jpg (http://img193.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76873_bild-g-mil-4_122_181lo.jpg)http://img141.imagevenue.com/loc380/th_76878_bild-isaf-d_122_380lo.jpg (http://img141.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76878_bild-isaf-d_122_380lo.jpg)
http://img198.imagevenue.com/loc828/th_76898_kskilsd01ae2_122_828lo.jpg (http://img198.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76898_kskilsd01ae2_122_828lo.jpg)htt p://img178.imagevenue.com/loc255/th_76904_MB250GD_Wolf_122_255lo.jpg (http://img178.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76904_MB250GD_Wolf_122_255lo.jpg)htt p://img101.imagevenue.com/loc558/th_76906_us_ifav_g_wagon-002_122_558lo.jpg (http://img101.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76906_us_ifav_g_wagon-002_122_558lo.jpg)http://img226.imagevenue.com/loc408/th_76908_USMC_Fast_Attack_Vehicle_7IFAV3_1_122_408 lo.jpg (http://img226.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76908_USMC_Fast_Attack_Vehicle_7IFAV 3_1_122_408lo.jpg)http://img172.imagevenue.com/loc68/th_76909_wolf_02_122_68lo.jpg (http://img172.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=76909_wolf_02_122_68lo.jpg)

I don't see spinning rims or kids being driven to "soccer" practice here.


Good job at finding military pictures. I would bombard you with hundreds of pictures of them on pavement driven buy trappers and soccer moms, but it isn't worth the time.


It is what it is, no matter what fat American housewives and rappers want it to be. I mean, kindly explain to me why in its country of origin, the vast majority of Gs are sold with stump-pulling diesel engines and used by hunters or forest rangers, its main user (army) aside.

I would like some proof that the VAST majority are sold in bare bones form, with winches on them.

Where I live and in most of the world they are driven on the road, plain and simple.




When was the expression "SUV" first used? Because I'm pretty sure that the G is older than the concept.
Yes it is, and in the past it was a pure off roader, now it is not.





In North America.

Where they also call the 500 models "550" because 500 isn't ostentatious enough, 80% of the people buying them have no idea what it stands for, anyway (let alone why it has three diff locks), and where people need easy classifications.

Forgive me if I'm not convinced. Arabs probably call the E63 AMG a "subcompact", but that don't make it so.

I used NA because I cannot read German.

They call it the 550 because it went from a 5.0 to a 5.5. Many cars do this, kind of like the G35 became the G37.

And thank you, you have proven my point. Most people who own them do not know what they can do. They are a very capable SUV. I am not here to convince you, I am just stating facts.

[Archangel]

When you said the H2 is far uglier, you were implying it looked better. I think they both look like shit.

I said that cars like the G, the HMMWV, and the Defender had the "beauty of pure function", not that they look better than anything in a design sense. An H2 wants to look military and functional, but isn't; that's what makes it ugly to me. The G doesn't pretend to be something it's not.

And yes if it is being used by military personal, then looks will not matter. But people who buy them and use them as DD's, looks should matter a bit.

Why? It IS a military vehicle reconfigured for road use. Let's not forget that for its almost 40-year history, Mercedes didn't evel sell the G in North America until ten years ago.

Good job at finding military pictures. I would bombard you with hundreds of pictures of them on pavement driven buy trappers and soccer moms, but it isn't worth the time.

Again, it's a military vehicle first, a soccer mom carrier a very distant second.

I would like some proof that the VAST majority are sold in bare bones form, with winches on them.

When did I say "bare bones"? My point was about diesels, which aren't even sold in America, apparently. If you're gonna spend $100,000 on a Mercedes, you can expect at least some leather seats.

Where I live and in most of the world they are driven on the road, plain and simple.

I grant you the first part, but I laugh at you for implying that you know how it is driven in "most of the world" judging from empirical evidence gathered in North America. I do know for a fact that it is used as a military vehicle in fifteen countries. Here's the list (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_(Bundeswehr)#Weitere_Nutzer): It's in German, but I'm sure you can figure out what "Argentinien" and "Finnland" are.

Yes it is, and in the past it was a pure off roader, now it is not.

I'm pretty sure that even with, say, a G55 AMG, you need helicopters to go where it can't. Define "off roader" for me.

They call it the 550 because it went from a 5.0 to a 5.5. Many cars do this, kind of like the G35 became the G37.

Thanks for the lecture, because I am not aware of Mercedes-Benz engine displacements. It's 5.4, by the way, 5,439 cm³ to be precise. However, last I checked, hardly any Mercs were named after their engine sizes anymore, so that argument sucks: The 200K is a 1.8, the 280 is a 3.0, the 200, 220 and 250 CDIs are all 2.1 litre, etc. In old money countries it's called 500 because it's a tradition, in nouveau riche countries where people badge their cars in gold colour it's called 550 because people need to brag. Case closed.

The 600 has been a 5.5 litre for years, but that would be harder for Puff Daddy to rap about, I guess.

And thank you, you have proven my point. Most people who own them do not know what they can do. They are a very capable SUV. I am not here to convince you, I am just stating facts.

Again, if Americans decide that the MG3 medium machine gun makes a great golf club, they are free to use it as such; however, that does not make it a golf club.

[Hoser]

I am heading off ot work and will finish this later, but It is known as a 5.5. I guess they are rounding up

The 2009 model becomes the G550, courtesy of the new-generation 5.5-liter V-8.
http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/suv/163_0906_2009_mercedes_benz_g550_drive/index.html
http://i44.tinypic.com/n4xxk3.jpg
Maybe it is a North American thing, but every car on the site that I saw (about half of them, didnt check all) were named after their engine size.
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/#/vehiclesMenu/

[Archangel]

They only sell the top of the range engine models in North America, anyway, so what does it matter? Most people there probably don't even know that S-Classes or CLSs come as diesels...

[POO POO CANNON]

Funny story about the G-Class for you all. A few months ago a few buddies and I went out into the woods with our suv's/pick ups. We were spending the day dicking around on some very easy, but muddy trails. My buddy rolled in in his brand new G550 his dad had bought him a month prior (so it was broken in and everything was a-okay) and we were all really excited about seeing what it could do. Long story short, his front diff ended up tearing itself apart as he was ascending a hill in a very controlled fashion, causing him to slide backwards into a ditch. We ended up having to tow him out and calling a flatbed to take the wounded G to a dealership. We assumed it was just a faulty diff and it would easily be fixed under warranty. This was obviously a fair assumption, considering even an MB diff wouldn't let go under those circumstances.

Wrong, the MB stealership hit him with a huge bill, not under warranty, citing "a purposeful endeavor beyond the vehicles capabilities." I remember the wording almost exactly because I gave him a ride to the MB dealer and when the service dude said that we were pretty baffled. He learned his lesson and to this day I think he's left it where it belongs, the pavement.

[Archangel]

Anybody who buys that thing with a petrol engine purposefully acts counter to the vehicle's capabilities.

[Hoser]

Or they bought it in North America.

You seem to forget MB diesels are are rare as the dodo here.

I also assume they would use the same diff in all models. It isn't the breaking the surprises me, shit happens. I am just very surprised by the dealership.

[Penguin Rick]

Ha, MB sucks. But seriously, a black G55 with the AMG rims looks amazing no matter what you guys think about it.

[BIG PIZZLE]

New E class looks sexy.

[Gary_Busey]

Is that Leonard Nimoy doing the voice over for that "logical" BMW commercial?

[thecow123]

New E class looks sexy.
I like the new E class overall, but the headlights and the rear end are a turnoff. That said, I still think the E63 AMG is sexy.

Now if only M-B would approve of an E63 AMG Coupe.

[Hoser]

GET OUT!!!!!!

[Gary_Busey]

I think he contributed to this thread appropriately.

[Hoser]

My nuts and dick are still on fire, I am pissed off. Deal with it.

and he is wrong, the front is pure sex.

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2009_eclass-thumb.jpg

[Gary_Busey]

I don't have to deal with shit, I'm not the one stupid enough to put shit on my dick.

And he only mentioned the headlights, not the front, which I agree with. The headlights are mundane.

[Hoser]

sHIT WAS NOT PUT ON MY DICK, BUT RATHER THE INSIDE OF MY THIGH.

edit: fucking caps

[thecow123]

Whoa, jeeze, calm down, last I knew, the opinions on the aesthetics of cars are mainly subjective...

Anyhow, the front does look good (save for the headlights, as previously mentioned), definitely one of the better aesthetic aspects of the new E-Class. However, the headlights are unattractive and uninspiring to me at least. I didn't like the two oval headlight design of the previous E/CLK-Classes that much either, but at least that was iconic, now they switch from the two iconic ovals to two parallelogram shaped headlights. Reminds me too much of the Lexus GS.

[POO POO CANNON]

So I spent all day driving an IS F, M3, C63 and CTS-V (Downtown Fine Cars FTW!) trying to decide what to replace the M3 with as my car (I will be keeping it, don't worry....). At the end of the day I was totally torn, until I saw a car exactly like this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Mercedes_W126_500SEL_Seite_1.jpg

I am in love. Going to pick it up at the end of the week.

[}{arlequin]

welcome to statesmanship circa 1987?


(they're tough but expensive to fix if something does go wrong)

[BIG PIZZLE]

So I spent all day driving an IS F, M3, C63 and CTS-V (Downtown Fine Cars FTW!) trying to decide what to replace the M3 with as my car (I will be keeping it, don't worry....). At the end of the day I was totally torn, until I saw a car exactly like this one:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/Mercedes_W126_500SEL_Seite_1.jpg

I am in love. Going to pick it up at the end of the week.

You are such a brown dude. All you need now is 40 more years under your belt, a wardrobe that consists primarily of orange silk shirts and black slacks, male pattern baldness, and a distaste for deoderant.

[POO POO CANNON]

Nah, I still love the big power. I was checking out the colours for the CTS-V (thought it would be cool to be reppin' the American Muscle in these troubled times) when my pappy pointed that out to me. Down where i go to university, you don't see any of those.... or brown people for that matter. It will make me recognizeable all over town.

[BIG PIZZLE]

A recognizeable stereotype. But I'm down with the brown. If it feels good, ride that motherfucker till the wheels fall off. Represent Prabhjit!

[Archangel]

A dude I know has an '87 500 SE.


Great car and all, but you're gonna be crying when you have to shell out for a new suspension. If I'm gonna buy an old German plutobarge, I'm gonna go with an E38 740i.

[Gary_Busey]

Of all the nice ass cars you could pick, you're going with that?

[}{arlequin]

Of all the nice ass cars you could pick, you're going with that?
+1

if you're gonna do this sorta nonsense, at least get a 500E

http://www.yoimg.com/i/0142577341a1c2ce4b54cc8527f6aee0-1993500.jpg (http://www.yoimg.com/h/0142577341a1c2ce4b54cc8527f6aee0-1993500.jpg.html)

[Archangel]

190E 2.5-16 Evo II ftw.


Basically one of the greatest touring cars ever, only street legal.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2778768242_289e0a198b.jpg

[}{arlequin]

mmmm... cosworth engine, manual trans... even the 2.3's are very hard to come by over here. not sure if the canuckians had it any better

[BIG PIZZLE]

All those old benzos look ugly to me. They all remind me of taxi cabs in the middle east.

[Archangel]

Saw one on the 'Ring a while back. Makes a noise like the end of the world, and you can just imagine Klaus Ludwig thrashing that thing around the Hockenheimring... I love it when Merc just fucks the notion of restraint up the arse and goes balls out. If money were no object, I'd buy the SL Black right now for that very reason.