VP Candidate Palin

[redsox39]

Its not about a 17 year old getting pregant though. Its her moms stance of lack of education about it. If her daughter had any clue, she could have easily prevented it with condoms/birth control. When the day comes that I have a kid, they will know what the reprocussions from fucking without a condom are. And fuck, i hate how they pay people to have kids. Thats bullshit.

Let's be honest...if you haven't broke a condom, you have a small penis. Shit happens. That is why, even though it fucks with your body, girls should get on that shot or implant. If you want to screw with reckless abandon (and who doesn't!) get your shit together.

And Education, ok maybe in Africa. If you are 16 in the Western World and can't figure out that you need or how to use a condom? Then you are too dumb to have sex anyways, and you are probably sticking it in her ear or eye socket. The hardest part about using a condom is finding the little "tear here" perforation in the dark.

[redsox39]

And republicans love the kid to be born so that it can be born in a pennyless, loveless home with parents who hate each other. Then they are also annoyed that they have a kid they weren't mature enough to have and didn't have enough income to support their family properly.

You are right Batman. We should just round up all the kids who live in poor, unloving homes and execute them. Problem solved.

[Desperado]

Let's be honest...if you haven't broke a condom, you have a small penis. Shit happens. That is why, even though it fucks with your body, girls should get on that shot or implant. If you want to screw with reckless abandon (and who doesn't!) get your shit together.

And Education, ok maybe in Africa. If you are 16 in the Western World and can't figure out that you need or how to use a condom? Then you are too dumb to have sex anyways, and you are probably sticking it in her ear or eye socket. The hardest part about using a condom is finding the little "tear here" perforation in the dark.


Ive lost many condoms due to fucking that tear part up...haha I lie who the hell uses condoms. Back to the point, I really think that if this had happened to someone else it would definitely being construed as the parents fault... Say like Republican point man Bill O'Reily...

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-mocks-how-oreillys-opinion-on-teen-pregnancy-gestated-over-a-period-of-months/

[Yelram]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-on-abortion-id-oppo_n_122924.html

I swear some liberals just cant fucking read. That explains most of the stupidity I suppose. Do I even have to explain the difference between wanting all raped women to be prevented from having an abortion, and supporting the birth of her daughters child EVEN IF IT WAS THE PRODUCT OF RAPE.

Other ones are so inexperienced in life, that they buy a bunch of this bullshit nonsense, like our friend the batman here, who thinks that having a baby who is an accident is akin to child abuse, and instant poverty. If you seriously believe that her daughter didnt know what a condom was, or how to use it, you sir are a moron. I still want to know if you are of voting age or not, I sure hope not.

[Yelram]

Ive lost many condoms due to fucking that tear part up...haha I lie who the hell uses condoms. Back to the point, I really think that if this had happened to someone else it would definitely being construed as the parents fault... Say like Republican point man Bill O'Reily...

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-mocks-how-oreillys-opinion-on-teen-pregnancy-gestated-over-a-period-of-months/

Oh yes, now lets pull out a pundit, so we can use them to demoralize a candidate, that makes sense, because everyone with an R after their name has the same opinion right?

[Desperado]

I swear some liberals just cant fucking read. That explains most of the stupidity I suppose. Do I even have to explain the difference between wanting all raped women not to allow abortions, and supporting the birth of her daughters child EVEN IF IT WAS THE PRODUCT OF RAPE.

Other ones are so inexperienced in life, that they buy a bunch of this bullshit nonsense, like our friend the batman here, who thinks that having a baby who is an accident is akin to child abuse, and instant poverty. If you seriously believe that her daughter didnt know what a condom was, or how to use it, you sir are a moron. I still want to know if you are of voting age or not, I sure hope not.


Umm i guess you better explain that to Cindy McCain also...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/cindy-mccain-says-she-dis_n_123545.html


Cindy McCain Says She Disagrees With Palin On Abortion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/cindy-mccain-says-she-dis_n_123545.html)


http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/37160/thumbs/s-CINDY-large.jpg






In a one-one-one interview with CBS' Katie Couric, Cindy McCain says she disagrees with Sarah Palin on abortion:
COURIC: Some, even Republicans seem surprised that Senator McCain picked a running mate who opposes abortion even in-- in the cases of rape and incest and believes creationism should be taught in schools. And I'm just curious, do you believe--or do you agree with that?
MCCAIN: What I agree with is the fact that she is a social conservative, she is a reform minded woman, she is someone that will shake the-- the-- Washington up, which is exactly what we wanna do. We differ on many issues, we differ with-- across the board with people. We don't have to agree on every issue.
COURIC: Abortion has suddenly become, again, a hot button issue, because of her--
MCCAIN: I think to you all it has--
COURIC: Well, I think probably, at least, it's reported that a lot of people are now talking about this. And I-- where do you stand on abortion?
MCCAIN: I'm pro-life, I'm on the record as being pro-life, like my husband.
COURIC: So, do you oppose it even in the cases of rape and incest?
MCCAIN: No.
COURIC: No? So, that's where you two differ--
MCCAIN: Uh-huh (AFFIRM).

[Yelram]

Umm i guess you better explain that to Cindy McCain also...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/cindy-mccain-says-she-dis_n_123545.html


[/indent]

You've proven two things.

1. The closest thing to news you read is the huffington post.
2. Katie Couric also cannot read.

You also reaffirmed the fact that YOU cant read.
It'd be one thing if she was a man saying that, but she's popped out 5 babies, she knows what it takes to be a mother, and what it takes to birth a child, and the consequences involved in abortion. Do you? She wasnt talking about legislation, because the question wasnt about legislation, it was a personal question, just like the old Mondale rape question

[Desperado]

Oh yes, now lets pull out a pundit, so we can use them to demoralize a candidate, that makes sense, because everyone with an R after their name has the same opinion right?


But all "Liberals" have the same opinion right??? Actually that was the first thing i found in google... but you tell me, is the huffington post another liberal rag?

[Desperado]

You've proven two things.

1. The closest thing to news you read is the huffington post.
2. Katie Couric also cannot read.

It'd be one thing if she was a man saying that, but she's popped out 5 babies, she knows what it takes to be a mother, and what it takes to birth a child, and the consequences involved in abortion. Do you?


Heres another link regarding Palin's stance on abortion/rape

http://www.naral.org/elections/election-pr/pr08292008_palin.html


Palin, a member of the anti-choice group Feminists for Life, said during her campaign for governor that she is opposed to abortion, even in cases of rape or incest. [Juneau Empire, "Abortion Draws Clear Divide in State Races," accessed 8/29/08 and Anchorage Daily News, "Governor’s Race: Top contenders meet one last time to debate," 11/03/06.]
'

Edit for another link:

http://www.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/44943.html

[Yelram]

Heres another link regarding Palin's stance on abortion/rape

http://www.naral.org/elections/election-pr/pr08292008_palin.html

'

Edit for another link:

http://www.adn.com/news/politics/elections/story/44943.html

How do you operate that computer being so illiterate?

"The candidates were pressed on their stances on abortion and were even asked what they would do if their own daughters were raped and became pregnant.
Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger. When it came to her daughter, she said, "I would choose life."


Please, wake the fuck up.

[Yelram]

But all "Liberals" have the same opinion right??? Actually that was the first thing i found in google... but you tell me, is the huffington post another liberal rag?

Did you graduate highschool? Liberal does not mean democrat or republican, fuck it could mean green party. I know conservative democrats, several of them.

[Desperado]

How do you operate that computer being so illiterate?

"The candidates were pressed on their stances on abortion and were even asked what they would do if their own daughters were raped and became pregnant.
Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger. When it came to her daughter, she said, "I would choose life."




you and I must be reading totally different articles... I mean im pulling quotes right out of this article... I dont know if it could be any clearer. Unless the womans gonna die from having the baby... no abortions.

Palin opposes a woman’s right to choose. Palin has also stated her opposition to abortion even in cases of rape or incest.

Palin, a member of the anti-choice group Feminists for Life, said during her campaign for governor that she is opposed to abortion, even in cases of rape or incest.

Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger.

[Yelram]

you and I must be reading totally different articles... I mean im pulling quotes right out of this article... I dont know if it could be any clearer. Unless the womans gonna die from having the baby... no abortions.

This is exactly why media bias is a very important issue. You dont see that you are quoting what somebody at a newspaper SAID she said, and not the actual quote. What the newspaper is saying is a misshapen extrapolation of what she really said. The question was in regards to her daughter, and whether she would support an abortion if her daughter was raped.

If I asked you "If someone raped your girlfriend would you want them executed,", and you said yes, then I say "You support the execution of all rapists" would that be a fair assumption?

[Desperado]

This is exactly why media bias is a very important issue. You dont see that you are quoting what somebody at a newspaper SAID she said, and not the actual quote. What the newspaper is saying is a misshapen extrapolation of what she really said. The question was in regards to her daughter, and whether she would support an abortion if her daughter was raped.


Ok, maybe sound will help and video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEN-c0zRH1c&feature=related

[dadaelus]

Here is the text from her conversation with Gibson. Anyone want to interpret this?

Gibson: Roe v. Wade, do you think it should be reversed?

Palin: I think it should and I think states should be able to decide that issue.


Gibson: It's a critical issue for so many women.


Palin: It is.


Gibson: You believe women should not have that choice?


Palin: It is a very critical and very sensitive and a personal issue also for so many women and men across this nation. I am pro-life. I do respect other people's opinion on this also and I think that a culture of life is best for America. What I want to do when elected Vice-President with John McCain, hopefully be able to reach out and work with those who are on the other side of this issue because I know we can all agree on the need for and the desire for fewer abortions in America and great support for adoption, for other alternatives that women can and should be empowered to embrace to allow that culture of life. That's my personal opinion on this Charlie.


Gibson: John McCain would allow abortion in the case of rape and incest, you believe in it only in the case of when the life of the mother is in danger.


Palin: That is my personal opinion.


Gibson: Would you change and accept it in rape and incest?


Palin: My personal opinion is that abortion allowed, if the life of the mother is in danger, please understand me on this, I do understand McCain's position on this. I do understand others who are very passionate about this issue who have a differing view. The problem is there are too many abortions and women are hurt and I just believe it is time we evolve the debate even, into more long-term solutions for the issue we're talking about.

[Yelram]

Here is the text from her conversation with Gibson. Anyone want to interpret this?

AHA, there it proves it, she wants to force every conceived baby to be born!!! haha, she must be crazy wahoo, a ***** in the armor!!!!

There are so many things about Obama that have begun to scare me. I was for him in the beginning, but the more he talks, the less I find myself agreeing with him.

[The Batman]

AHA, there it proves it, she wants to force every conceived baby to be born!!! haha, she must be crazy wahoo, a ***** in the armor!!!!

There are so many things about Obama that have begun to scare me. I was for him in the beginning, but the more he talks, the less I find myself agreeing with him.

This is the part where you say you were wrong.

[Desperado]

AHA, there it proves it, she wants to force every conceived baby to be born!!! haha, she must be crazy wahoo, a ***** in the armor!!!!

There are so many things about Obama that have begun to scare me. I was for him in the beginning, but the more he talks, the less I find myself agreeing with him.


Wow... im glad you understand now:)

[Yelram]

This is the part where you say you were wrong.

Thats still not what is being asked. First of all, just to clear things up, I'm fairly certain they are talking about the STATE constitution, her being governor and all. Second, she asked specifically whether she was signing legislation into law, or if she was supporting an amendment by being present as the head of the party. Those are very different things. And I specifically mentioned the Mondale thing because the dems have used this argument before, and failed horribly.

Again, peoples opinions, and what they would legislate are two different issues. She is in favor of STATES having the right to regulate abortions. So as governor, she would be required to operate as a representative, not as a "hmmm what opinion of mine should I legislate today". If you ask someones opinion on an issue, thats slightly different than their stance as a candidate, and she differentiates that. For anyone who isnt purposely trying to back her into a corner, its obvious.

[Genius]

Damn, how I hate the abortion questions. No one really gives a fuck about abortions. Neither candidate is going to dick about Roe v. Wade. The biggest source of empty rhetoric on both sides in the history of American politics. I hope Palin isn't expecting anything out of McCain on the issue. I'm pretty sure he decided he was pro-life about ten minutes ago.

[Desperado]

A review of edited post here for anyone lazy:

Please show me the quote that says women who are raped shouldnt be allowed to have an abortion.

Do you? She wasnt talking about legislation, because the question wasnt about legislation, it was a personal question, just like the old Mondale rape question

You dont see that you are quoting what somebody at a newspaper SAID she said, and not the actual quote. What the newspaper is saying is a misshapen extrapolation of what she really said. The question was in regards to her daughter, and whether she would support an abortion if her daughter was raped.

If I asked you "If someone raped your girlfriend would you want them executed,", and you said yes, then I say "You support the execution of all rapists" would that be a fair assumption?

Thats still not what is being asked. First of all, just to clear things up, I'm fairly certain they are talking about the STATE constitution, her being governor and all. Second, she asked specifically whether she was signing legislation into law, or if she was supporting an amendment by being present as the head of the party. Those are very different things. And I specifically mentioned the Mondale thing because the dems have used this argument before, and failed horribly.

Again, peoples opinions, and what they would legislate are two different issues. She is in favor of STATES having the right to regulate abortions. So as governor, she would be required to operate as a representative, not as a "hmmm what opinion of mine should I legislate today". If you ask someones opinion on an issue, thats slightly different than their stance as a candidate, and she differentiates that. For anyone who isnt purposely trying to back her into a corner, its obvious.

So its your personal opinion that she holds two opinions on abortion? Because listening to her on that video and reading her direct quote of
Gibson: John McCain would allow abortion in the case of rape and incest, you believe in it only in the case of when the life of the mother is in danger.
Palin: That is my personal opinion.

Leads me to believe that because she personally feels this way, she would probably try to get legislation to have something like that made into law. I guess that why the proabortion groups hate her so much.

[Deadhead Derek]

Documentation coming out re: troopergate. she looks like shit in this, boys and girls...McCain's stunt will backfire.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5844710&page=1

[Mustard]

I guess thats what can happen when you don't properly vet your VP choice...

[Rover]

Rover: You get cc'd at work because, right or wrong, people want you to see them. But the point is that you are part of that business organization.

Personally, I could care less about Todd Palin and his political beliefs. But I do raise an eyebrow to why a Governor is sending official business e-mails to someone who is not part of the government -- spouse or friend or political contributor, it doesn't matter.Some of the email I get cc'd could not possibly relate to me. Personally, I think it's Sarbanes run crazy.

About Todd Palin not being a part of the government, Yelram posted the court case with Hillary. But if Alaska is set up anything like the Federal governement, then he is part of the government. The Office of the First Lady is effectively an sub-branch of the Office of the President.

I have been fairlyquiet on this issue sinply because I don't have all the background info as to what emails were forwrded, etc. Morfin is right, though. If those emails contained official state business, there are legal remifications to them being sent along.You don't have access to the emails, either? Shit, that doesn't stop Salon from speculating that Todd Palin is really a shadow governor (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/16/todd_palin/).

And republicans love the kid to be born so that it can be born in a pennyless, loveless home with parents who hate each other. Then they are also annoyed that they have a kid they weren't mature enough to have and didn't have enough income to support their family properly.You seem smart. Have you worked out the value of a human life down to the last cent, if not, could you at least ballpark it for me?

How do you operate that computer being so illiterate?

"The candidates were pressed on their stances on abortion and were even asked what they would do if their own daughters were raped and became pregnant.
Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother's life was in danger. When it came to her daughter, she said, "I would choose life."


Please, wake the fuck up.Tarheel was looking for just one rantastic pwnage post. I think there was a series of them.

Documentation coming out re: troopergate. she looks like shit in this, boys and girls...McCain's stunt will backfire.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5844710&page=1What? All that says is her chief of staff authorized travel to DC. I think the governor's decision on that is final. Sounds like the chief of staff is lucky he didn't get fired for gross incompetence. Only the Left, can make an issue out of the firing of an "at will" employee. Also, you would think that as much as the Left decries police violence/abuse, they would be slightly more concerned that a state police officer tasered a kid and was drunk in his patrol car.

[Yelram]

So its your personal opinion that she holds two opinions on abortion? Because listening to her on that video and reading her direct quote of


Leads me to believe that because she personally feels this way, she would probably try to get legislation to have something like that made into law. I guess that why the proabortion groups hate her so much.

A personal opinion, and an actual political position are two things, if you read the Gibson interview there she is crystal clear about it. It should be a state issue, so as VP, what is she going to do besides give the states back their right to regulate abortion?

[The Batman]

You seem smart. Have you worked out the value of a human life down to the last cent, if not, could you at least ballpark it for me?

I was just answering his extreme generalization of abortion with another one.

[WigglingWii]

A personal opinion, and an actual political position are two things, if you read the Gibson interview there she is crystal clear about it. It should be a state issue, so as VP, what is she going to do besides give the states back their right to regulate abortion?

How can you say that a personal opinion is different from actual political position? So she believes that Roe v. Wade should be overturn, but she herself won't do that if she's in office. That's just a bunch of bullshit. You are completely talking out of your ass. And of course Palin is going to say that she'll throw this to the decision of the state. She's saying this now, but when hell freezes over and after she murders McCain the first thing she'll do in office is to overturn Roe v. Wade and trust me, she will NOT leave the abortion issue to the states.

[Yelram]

I was just answering his extreme generalization of abortion with another one.


Theres nothing extreme about it, liberals feel that abortion is the same as the pill or wearing a condom, its just another way to remove an unwanted accident. I'm just not down with the whole if you dont want it, kill it, philosophy. I dont necessarily believe the government should outlaw it, but I dont want my tax dollars going to fund the endorsement of abortion as an option. Planned parenthood was started by a racist who saw it as an easy way to eliminate black babies.

[Yelram]

How can you say that a personal opinion is different from actual political position? So she believes that Roe v. Wade should be overturn, but she herself won't do that if she's in office. That's just a bunch of bullshit. You are completely talking out of your ass. And of course Palin is going to say that she'll throw this to the decision of the state. She's saying this now, but when hell freezes over and after she murders McCain the first thing she'll do in office is to overturn Roe v. Wade and trust me, she will NOT leave the abortion issue to the states.

Thats just how politics work. We have a representative government, not a "elect a person based on their opinions" sort of government. I dont think most people understand that. If shes the governor of Alaska, and a bill is put through the state congress, passes all of the legal requirements to become a law, she is more or less obligated to represent the people, not her personal opinion. Just like judges have personal opinions, and lawyers, but for the most part, they have to apply the law, not their opinions. If the right to abortion is in the constitution, so is the right to suicide, the right to take any sort of substance. They dont even restrict the age at which abortion is legally allowed without sparking a criminal investigation. In otherwords, young girls dont have the right to allow a man to penetrate them, but they have the right to abort the possible baby they conceived. Its a bunch of stupid horseshit with a "women's rights" blanket wrapped around it.

Hopefully they WILL overturn Roe vs. Wade, because its totally unconstitutional to restrict the states rights in that regard. The second anyone can show me ANYTHING in the federal constitution granting fetal execution rights to anyone with a uterus, I will eat my hat. I dont have the right to pollute my body with drugs, but women can execute a child that they (in most cases) willfully conceived of.

[WigglingWii]

Thats just how politics work. We have a representative government, not a "elect a person based on their opinions" sort of government. I dont think most people understand that. If shes the governor of Alaska, and a bill is put through the state congress, passes all of the legal requirements to become a law, she is more or less obligated to represent the people, not her personal opinion. Just like judges have personal opinions, and lawyers, but for the most part, they have to apply the law, not their opinions.

Hopefully they WILL overturn Roe vs. Wade, because its totally unconstitutional to restrict the states rights in that regard. The second anyone can show me ANYTHING in the federal constitution granting fetal execution rights to anyone with a uterus, I will eat my hat. I dont have the right to pollute my body with drugs, but women can execute a child that they (in most cases) willfully conceived of.

First of all, are you fucking kidding me? Sounds like you're living in a utopia. You should wake up and smell the bullshit. Our political system is so corrupted. Plus, Palin lies through her teeth. And as a women let me just say that I hope you die a painful death! How do I not have the right to deal with my own fucking uterus? And pardon me, we don't always "willfully" conceive children so we can just kill them. Sure, you don't have the right to pollute your body with drugs, but you still do it anyway. Don't just put the blame on the woman. Men don't have the same obligations and responsibilities like women do when it comes to childbirth. You don't know the pain. You will never be able to relate to what we have to go through. How can you sit there and impose laws onto us?

[The Batman]

How can you say that a personal opinion is different from actual political position? So she believes that Roe v. Wade should be overturn, but she herself won't do that if she's in office. That's just a bunch of bullshit. You are completely talking out of your ass. And of course Palin is going to say that she'll throw this to the decision of the state. She's saying this now, but when hell freezes over and after she murders McCain the first thing she'll do in office is to overturn Roe v. Wade and trust me, she will NOT leave the abortion issue to the states.

I honestly don't think she will be able to overturn Roe v. Wade. I don't think anyone could because that matter is with the courts and thats a box that can't be closed again, but I certainly don't want to give her the opportunity. Besides, she is not intelligent enough to run for the highest office in this country. Bush has showed you need intelligence and common sense to do a good job and a lot of the things that she has said shows she isn't that different.

[Yelram]

First of all, are you fucking kidding me? Sounds like you're living in a utopia. You should wake up and smell the bullshit. Our political system is so corrupted. Plus, Palin lies through her teeth. And as a women let me just say that I hope you die a painful death! How do I not have the right to deal with my own fucking uterus? And pardon me, we don't always "willfully" conceive children so we can just kill them. Sure, you don't have the right to pollute your body with drugs, but you still do it anyway. Don't just put the blame on the woman. Men don't have the same obligations and responsibilities like women do when it comes to childbirth. You don't know the pain. You will never be able to relate to what we have to go through. How can you sit there and impose laws onto us?

This is exactly why women cant argue about abortion without becoming unstable. Our political system is so corrupted? I dont understand the relevance. Please show me her "lying through her teeth". If you have sex, and get pregnant, you WILLFULLY CREATED A CHILD dumbass. Maybe I am in favor of abortions, well atleast in your case. The blame is on both people who had sex there chica. And the decision should be with both of them. PALIN KNOWS THE PAIN OF CHILDBIRTH. Do you have children? Or are you just talking out your vagina? If you dont, what makes you anymore qualified to support or reject abortion than any man? I didnt think that gender was an excuse to grant rights to people anymore. If a man and a women willfully conceive of a child, and the man has no say in the life of the child, that is horseshit. If the women births out the child THE MAN IS REQUIRED TO PAY FOR IT. How is that fair? If its just a womens burden, than she should have to financially take care of the child

[WigglingWii]

This is exactly why women cant argue about abortion without becoming unstable. Our political system is so corrupted? I dont understand the relevance. Please show me her "lying through her teeth". If you have sex, and get pregnant, you WILLFULLY CREATED A CHILD dumbass. Maybe I am in favor of abortions, well atleast in your case. The blame is on both people who had sex there chica. And the decision should be with both of them. PALIN KNOWS THE PAIN OF CHILDBIRTH. Do you have children? Or are you just talking out your vagina? If you dont, what makes you anymore qualified to support or reject abortion than any man? I didnt think that gender was an excuse to grant rights to people anymore. If a man and a women willfully conceive of a child, and the man has no say in the life of the child, that is horseshit.

I'm not unstable. Plus, I'm not going to argue with someone as ignorant as you are.

[Yelram]

I'm not unstable. Plus, I'm not going to argue with someone as ignorant as you are.

Because women cant make arguments about abortion without throwing a little hissy fit. And you are yet another example. Oh and technically the law wouldnt be "imposed" on women, but rather on doctors that do the procedure, its a whole different thing. A women has 9 months of "pain", a man is stuck for 18 years after that with a loss of income that is MUCH worse than the "pain" of childbirth. I love how women who have never had children immediately become professors of childbirth when talking about abortion. Like because they have a vagina, they just KNOW something that men dont. What makes this whole thing funny is that Palin has 5 kids, one with downs syndrome (you know, taking care of a downs syndrome child isnt exactly easy), so your whole "you dont know" argument sounds like complete bullshit, considering she DOES know. Everything in American culture anymore has been about handing out "get out of jail" free cards. You fuck up and have sex with someone you wouldnt seriously consider having kids with, and get pregnant, and you want Mr. Doctor to come and make the big bad responsibility go away, so you can have a "career", and "be something", like a mother isnt something, or isnt important. Feminism isnt about acting like a women, its about women pretending to be men. Its all that penis envy, they need some way to redirect it. Women have the ultimate power of creating life, so they should have to accept the responsibility that comes along with it. If men have to pay child support, then they should have a part in the decision whether to abort the child or not.

[Snatch]

Supporting Federal Funding for Abortions is just as crazy as not allowing for abortions in cases of rape, incest, and to save a mother's life.

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

I'm not unstable. Plus, I'm not going to argue with someone as ignorant as you are.

IE: I have run woefully short of the required ammo to argue my point.

[Yelram]

Supporting Federal Funding for Abortions is just as crazy as not allowing for abortions in cases of rape, incest, and to save a mother's life.

What do you think pro-choice means? The federal government has no right to tell the states whether they can allow abortion procedures within their boundaries. That is the legal question here. Did the supreme court overstep its bounds in interpreting the constitution?

[WigglingWii]

IE: I have run woefully short of the required ammo to argue my point.

No, I have no reason to argue with someone that has no idea what they're talking about.

[The Batman]

I didnt think that gender was an excuse to grant rights to people anymore. If a man and a women willfully conceive of a child, and the man has no say in the life of the child, that is horseshit. If the women births out the child THE MAN IS REQUIRED TO PAY FOR IT. How is that fair? If its just a womens burden, than she should have to financially take care of the child

Men have no say in a woman choosing to have an abortion or not. We don't carry the child for 9 months. Thats a BIG difference in the sexes when it comes to having a child. We can walk away (and often do). There is obvious difference that you don't seem to see/understand. The only reason we have to pay for it is because the courts require us to and sometimes that doesn't matter because some men won't pay anyway. And you dumb piece of shit, a Man helps pay for the child to SUPPORT the child, but the mother is EQUALLY responsible. Thats what makes it fair. And the man is only required to pay for it, if he WALKS AWAY, as any REAL MAN should.

[Snatch]

What do you think pro-choice means? The federal government has no right to tell the states whether they can allow abortion procedures within their boundaries. That is the legal question here. Did the supreme court overstep its bounds in interpreting the constitution?

Obviously, and there are dozens of cases where you can say the same thing.

I think I can speak for a segment of the population when I say that I don't give a fuck how many coathangers bitches want to shove up their vagina.

I DO care about having to work long and hard and have my fucking money get taken away from me, so that they can pay for it.

I DO care about having doctors shove needles into babies heads and suck their fucking brains out.

I mean, at the end of the day, "waaah waaah, its a personal choice." Ok, so PERSONALLY fucking pay for it.

[Snatch]

Men have no say in a woman choosing to have an abortion or not. We don't carry the child for 9 months. Thats a BIG difference in the sexes when it comes to having a child. We can walk away (and often do). There is obvious difference that you don't seem to see/understand. The only reason we have to pay for it is because the courts require us to and sometimes that doesn't matter because some men won't pay anyway. And you dumb piece of shit, a Man helps pay for the child to SUPPORT the child, but the mother is EQUALLY responsible. Thats what makes it fair. And the man is only required to pay for it, if he WALKS AWAY, as any REAL MAN should.

It's a man's personal choice to walk away. He doesn't want the pain of having to deal with 18 years of bullshit. Who are the courts to tell him what to do with his life?

Oh, and if they were real LADIES, they wouldn't get fucking knocked up by some bozo. There's 600 forms of contraceptives.

[The Batman]

Obviously, and there are dozens of cases where you can say the same thing.

I think I can speak for a segment of the population when I say that I don't give a fuck how many coathangers bitches want to shove up their vagina.

I DO care about having to work long and hard and have my fucking money get taken away from me, so that they can pay for it.

I DO care about having doctors shove needles into babies heads and suck their fucking brains out.

I mean, at the end of the day, "waaah waaah, its a personal choice." Ok, so PERSONALLY fucking pay for it.

Does the government pay for abortions? Is anyone trying to pull that off?

[The Batman]

It's a man's personal choice to walk away. He doesn't want the pain of having to deal with 18 years of bullshit. Who are the courts to tell him what to do with his life.

Well a woman doesn't have that choice does she? So why should she bare ALL the responsibility for a mistake/choice that they BOTH made.

[The Batman]

Oh, and if they were real LADIES, they wouldn't get fucking knocked up by some bozo. There's 600 forms of contraceptives.

And if they were a real MAN they would wear a condom. Try making a reasonable argument next time.

[Snatch]

Does the government pay for abortions? Is anyone trying to pull that off?

Kerry did.
Obama is.

[Snatch]

Well a woman doesn't have that choice does she? So why should she bare ALL the responsibility for a mistake/choice that they BOTH made.

The point was that both parents should have a say in whether or not the baby will be born. You're agreeing with me tacitly.

[Snatch]

And if they were a real MAN they would wear a condom. Try making a reasonable argument next time.

So, the man is wrong... and so is the woman...
So, they share responsibility...
So, they should share decision making...

[nuclearjew]

And the man is only required to pay for it, if he WALKS AWAY, as any REAL MAN should.
A REAL MAN should walk away from an unplanned pregnancy?

[The Batman]

The point was that both parents should have a say in whether or not the baby will be born. You're agreeing with me tacitly.
Yeah, of course a man should have some input, but the REALITY is that its her choice because we aren't carrying the child for 9 months. The reality is that we can walk away.

[Yelram]

Does the government pay for abortions? Is anyone trying to pull that off?

Are you seriously that naive? Ever heard of planned parenthood?

[The Batman]

A REAL MAN should walk away from an unplanned pregnancy?

No, a real man would help way for the kid he walked away from.

[Snatch]

Yeah, of course a man should have some input, but the REALITY is that its her choice because we aren't carrying the child for 9 months. The reality is that we can walk away.

What I was trying to say is that their is a stiff penalty for a man to walk away.

There is no penalty for a woman to "walk away."

I'm not even pro-life, but the debate is fucking insane.

[Yelram]

And if they were a real MAN they would wear a condom. Try making a reasonable argument next time.

Have you ever even had sex? IT IS NOT A MANS CHOICE TO WALK AWAY there buddy. That is not some right they were granted. Hell if they did that it would make alot more sense. If a women has the right to abort a child, the man should have the right NOT to pay for it.

[Yelram]

What I was trying to say is that their is a stiff penalty for a man to walk away.

There is no penalty for a woman to "walk away."

I'm not even pro-life, but the debate is fucking insane.

I'm not either, but anything that defies the law and letter of the constitution kind of irks me. This is what people dont get about Palins position, she believes its up to the states to decide, and that the federal government has no right forcing states to offer abortion as a birth control option. Some places they are trying to FORCE obgyns to do the procedure even though they are morally opposed to it. It should be a states rights issue, plain and simple. Her opinion beyond that is the opinion of a citizen of Alaska, not the VP candidate.

[Yelram]

No, a real man would help way for the kid he walked away from.

And a real women would abort it?

[The Batman]

Are you seriously that naive? Ever heard of planned parenthood?

I am not trying to have an abortion. How the fuck should i know who supports planned parenthood? Thats why I am asking.

[The Batman]

What I was trying to say is that their is a stiff penalty for a man to walk away.

There is no penalty for a woman to "walk away."

I'm not even pro-life, but the debate is fucking insane.

Can she walk away? There is a stiff penalty for men because so many men walk away. I am sure there are obvious exceptions like anything. But I do know of one woman who is paying child support. Ms. Spears.

[The Batman]

And a real women would abort it?
Did i ever say anything close to than? No. But a real man would own up to their responsiblity and help support the child. Obviously, your not a real man.

[Yelram]

Did i ever say anything close to than? No. But a real man would own up to their responsiblity and help support the child. Obviously, your not a real man.

I dont know what the fuck you are talking about. I would never have sex with someone I wouldnt want to create a child with, so I would never have that problem to begin with. What i'm saying is it cant be solely a womans right since the fetus is half the woman and half the man. If it is the womans right, than the man should be given the right to not pay for it. What if a woman gets pregnant to a man, they are both poor, but the woman knows she'll have an income if she pops out the child. So she gives birth to it, purely as a source of income. I believe the man should be able to request that a woman has an abortion, and if she decides to have the baby, at that point its her responsibility.

[The Batman]

Have you ever even had sex? IT IS NOT A MANS CHOICE TO WALK AWAY there buddy. That is not some right they were granted. Hell if they did that it would make alot more sense. If a women has the right to abort a child, the man should have the right NOT to pay for it.

Um, a man has the choice not to have sex with the woman. a man has the choice to wear a condom. We weren't even talking about abortions. You were talking about a woman who could easily prevent getting pregnant, and I was just pointing out a man could easily prevent it as well.

[Snatch]

I dont know what the fuck you are talking about. I would never have sex with someone I wouldnt want to create a child with, so I would never have that problem to begin with. What i'm saying is it cant be solely a womans right since the fetus is half the woman and half the man. If it is the womans right, than the man should be given the right to not pay for it. What if a woman gets pregnant to a man, they are both poor, but the woman knows she'll have an income if she pops out the child. So she gives birth to it, purely as a source of income. I believe the man should be able to request that a woman has an abortion, and if she decides to have the baby, at that point its her responsibility.

Really?

[The Batman]

I dont know what the fuck you are talking about. I would never have sex with someone I wouldnt want to create a child with, so I would never have that problem to begin with. What i'm saying is it cant be solely a womans right since the fetus is half the woman and half the man. If it is the womans right, than the man should be given the right to not pay for it. What if a woman gets pregnant to a man, they are both poor, but the woman knows she'll have an income if she pops out the child. So she gives birth to it, purely as a source of income. I believe the man should be able to request that a woman has an abortion, and if she decides to have the baby, at that point its her responsibility.

Well your an exception because most of the guys I know would fuck anything with a pussy that moves. Its more of a womans right than a mans because a man doesn't carry the baby for 9 months. A woman can rarely walk away from the responsiblity of the child. And its quite crass of you to assume the woman is having the child just for the income.

[nuclearjew]

Well your an exception because most of the guys I know would fuck anything with a pussy that moves.
Does that include animals? You sick fuck!

[The Batman]

Does that include animals? You sick fuck!

It depends on how drunk my friends are. :eek:

[eleveneighteen]

Well stated by Desperado regarding READING the comment before you reply to it.

[Mustard]

I didn't see anyone post it yet so here is the Hannity/Palin suckfest interview.

RK8FxqdF458
8QBsWEV3TSo
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and for those w/o the time to watch all segments... here is a summarization of what was said.

5RuwIf4Rblc

[The Batman]

I didn't see anyone post it yet so here is the Hannity/Palin suckfest interview.



and for those w/o the time to watch all segments... here is a summarization of what was said.

this is why i don't watch fox news.

[Mustard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?pagewanted=1&_r=7&hp&adxnnlx=1221944424-M80ol3HyyXHv4YOA0dtK0w


The Obama and McCain campaigns have agreed to an unusual free-flowing format for the three televised presidential debates (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/p/presidential_debates/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), which begin on Friday, but the McCain camp fought for and won a much more structured approach for the questioning at the vice-presidential debate, advisers to both campaigns said Saturday.

At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/p/sarah_palin/index.html?inline=nyt-per), and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/joseph_r_jr_biden/index.html?inline=nyt-per), will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/c/commission_on_presidential_debates/index.html?inline=nyt-org), which is sponsoring the forums.

Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the two vice-presidential candidates. On Wednesday, the commission unanimously rejected a proposal sought by advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/john_mccain/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges. Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format.

Both campaigns see the four debates as pivotal moments in a presidential race that is not only extraordinarily close but also drawing intense interest from voters; roughly 40 million viewers watched the major speeches at the two parties’ conventions. The upheaval in the financial markets has recast the race in recent days, moreover, which both sides believe will only heighten attention for the debates.

A commission member said that the new agreement on the vice-presidential debate was reached late morning Saturday. It calls for shorter blocks of candidate statements and open discussion than at the presidential debates.

McCain advisers said they were only somewhat concerned about Ms. Palin’s debating skills compared with those of Mr. Biden, who has served six terms in the Senate, or about his chances of tripping her up. Instead, they say, they wanted Ms. Palin to have opportunities to present Mr. McCain’s positions, rather than spending time talking about her experience or playing defense.

While the debates between presidential nominees are traditionally the main events in the fall election season, the public interest in Ms. Palin has proved extraordinary, and a large audience is expected for her debate debut.

Indeed, both the McCain and Obama campaigns have similar concerns about the vice-presidential matchup in St. Louis: that Ms. Palin, of Alaska, as a new player in national politics, or Mr. Biden, of Delaware, as a loquacious and gaffe-prone speaker, could commit a momentum-changing misstep in their debate.

The negotiations for the three 90-minute debates between the men at the top of the tickets were largely free of brinksmanship. Neither side threatened to pull out, and concerns about camera angles and stagecraft were been minor.

Senator Barack Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of Illinois, the Democratic nominee for president, and Mr. McCain did not intercede personally to settle any disputes. They agreed to one substantive change to the format originally proposed by the debate commission, giving them two minutes apiece to make a statement at the beginning of each segment on a new topic.

Mr. Obama successfully sought to flip the proposed topics for the first and third debates, so foreign policy is now coming first and economic and other domestic issues come last. There is a second debate, in the format of a town hall meeting, in which the candidates will sit on director’s chairs and take questions from the audience and Internet users on any topic.

The debate commission had proposed that the first debate be on economic issues, and the third on foreign policy — in part, people involved in the process said, because the first debate is usually the most watched, and many voters rank the economy as their top concern.

Mr. Obama wanted foreign policy first to show viewers that he could provide depth, strength and intelligence on those issues, his advisers said, given that Mr. McCain consistently wins higher ratings in opinion polls as a potential commander in chief.

Mr. Obama wanted domestic issues to come last; advisers said that they believed even before the start of the financial crisis that the election was most likely to turn on the state of the economy and that he wanted the final televised exchange to focus on those concerns. He has argued that Mr. McCain would continue the economic policies of President Bush.

Mr. McCain also wanted foreign policy topics to come first in the debates, his aides said, in the hope of capitalizing on his positive reputation on national security issues across party lines.

He wanted limits on the original format for the first and third debates, which had been nine topics with nine minutes of free-flowing debate on each one. Mr. Obama went along, though his aides did insist that at least several minutes of open-ended debate occur in each block of questioning, because they believe he does well in that format.

Now the candidates will be asked a question, each will give an answer of two minutes or less, and then they will mix it up for five additional minutes before moving on to the next question in the same format.

Obama aides also agreed to use lecterns at the first event, which Mr. McCain preferred; at the third debate, the two men will be seated at a round table, in the 10 o’clock and 2 o’clock positions, with the moderator at 6 o’clock.

McCain aides said that they were conscious of the fact that Mr. McCain has a prominent scar on one side of his face, and that they could not predict how prominent it would appear with the camera angles, lighting and make-up.

The debate formats were negotiated by Senator Lindsey Graham (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/lindsey_graham/index.html?inline=nyt-per), Republican of South Carolina, representing the McCain campaign, and Representative Rahm Emanuel (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/e/rahm_emanuel/index.html?inline=nyt-per), Democrat of Illinois, for the Obama camp.

A handful of aides from both camps were also involved, hammering out issues between themselves and then holding conference calls with members of the commission to reach final agreements, people involved in the process said.

Mr. Obama plans to begin debate camp on Tuesday with a tight circle of advisers at a site in the Tampa Bay area of Florida, his aides say, with a prominent Democratic lawyer, Greg Craig (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/gregory_b_craig/index.html?inline=nyt-per), playing the part of Mr. McCain in mock debates.

The Obama campaign has been studying Mr. McCain’s debate performances from the Republican primary as well as in his 2000 race for president. Each debate has been rated and scored, with briefing points and highlights sent to Mr. Obama.

Mr. Obama’s advisers have been studying in particular Mr. McCain’s temperament and mood and looking for potential flash points of anger.

Mr. McCain, his advisers say, has yet to spend much time watching the dozens of primary debate performances of Mr. Obama over the last two years. But they said that a small staff of aides had been reviewing them and that Mr. McCain would see some highlights next week.

McCain aides refused to say when his debate camp would be or where, or who was playing Mr. Obama or Mr. Biden. (Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/jennifer_m_granholm/index.html?inline=nyt-per), Democrat of Michigan, is playing Ms. Palin for Mr. Biden’s preparations.)
Mr. Obama plans to sequester himself and a small number of advisers at his debate camp. The attendance is limited to a small group of foreign policy advisers, each rotating in for separate sessions with Mr. Obama and Mr. Craig.

The choice of Florida, particularly the politically critical region near Tampa, was selected with a dual purpose in mind. While Mr. Obama will have few public events from Tuesday through Friday, aides said, his presence could draw considerable local news media attention in a state where he hopes to fiercely challenge Mr. McCain.

While the intense portion of debate training begins on Tuesday, Mr. Obama has been preparing for weeks, in part by drawing upon his experience debating Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/hillary_rodham_clinton/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of New York in the Democratic primaries. His aides have been studying those debate performances to address one of his biggest shortcomings: his ability to deliver a tight answer. Already, his campaign is trying to diminish expectations for Mr. Obama’s performance.

“Despite the fact that we got the chance to do this a lot during the primaries, these debates are not by any stretch of the imagination his strong suit,” said Robert Gibbs, a senior strategist to Mr. Obama. “He likes to talk about a problem, give some examples that addresses some solutions and oftentimes that doesn’t fit into the moderator’s allotted time.”

The campaigns had no say over the choice of moderators — Jim Lehrer (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/jim_lehrer/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of PBS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/p/public_broadcasting_service/index.html?inline=nyt-org), Tom Brokaw (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/tom_brokaw/index.html?inline=nyt-per) of NBC (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/nbc_universal/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and Bob Schieffer of CBS for the presidential debates, and Gwen Ifill of PBS for the vice-presidential debate.

“Everything matters and issues can always come up, such as the size of podiums — like for Carter and Ford in 1976 — to the timer lights if the candidate doesn’t like them,” said Tad Devine, a Democratic strategist who advised Al Gore (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/al_gore/index.html?inline=nyt-per) in 2000 and John Kerry (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/john_kerry/index.html?inline=nyt-per) in 2004. “There hasn’t really been a ‘debate about the debates’ this year, but that can change in a minute.”Read the whole article, its good and gives insight into what to expect from the debates.

With that said... Sarah Palin is a baracuda, Sarah Palin is a pit bull, and now it comes out that basicaly, in no uncertain terms, the McCain campaign is afraid of Sarah Palin debating Joe Biden. Because why else would the McCain campaing insist "to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges"?

We, the voting electorate of the United States, are being cheated (at the insistence of the McCain campaign) out of a chance to watch the bulldog take on the pitbull, aka the six-term old boy gaffe machine take on the grossly inexperienced moose hunting hockey mom. I really wanted to see those two go at it unfettered and unabashedly, but now, I guess that isn't going to happen, and that really pisses me off.

If you ask me, the McCain campaign is full of a bunch of whiny, butt-hurt, chicken-shit vaginas.

[Pollo]

I guess that Charlie Gibson interview she had is making them worried? but fuck the provisions on the VP debate: if she wants to remove those doubts that she's an inexperienced debater or hell is capable of being the VP pick (and make believers of those feminists that find her a disgrace in being a woman), then let her and Biden exchange arguments rather this short-answer bullcrap and see what she is able to do.

[Rover]

I gotta stay away from an abortion debate...

With that said... Sarah Palin is a baracuda, Sarah Palin is a pit bull, and now it comes out that basicaly, in no uncertain terms, the McCain campaign is afraid of Sarah Palin debating Joe Biden. Because why else would the McCain campaing insist "to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges"?

We, the voting electorate of the United States, are being cheated (at the insistence of the McCain campaign) out of a chance to watch the bulldog take on the pitbull, aka the six-term old boy gaffe machine take on the grossly inexperienced moose hunting hockey mom. I really wanted to see those two go at it unfettered and unabashedly, but now, I guess that isn't going to happen, and that really pisses me off.

If you ask me, the McCain campaign is full of a bunch of whiny, butt-hurt, chicken-shit vaginas.What exactly were you expecting from these debates? This sounds exactly like the same watered-down bullshit they've been forcefeeding for years. Sit here, and we'll toss you questions that allow you to recite your stump speech. It's sounds like you're expecting prophecies to be foretold during these made-for-TV debates.

Regarding Palin, it's called lowering expectations. That way when she plants her stiletto through Biden's chest everyone will be more impressed that she overcame expectations.

Conversely, if she starts speaking in tongues they can always claim she was a weak debater.

Whiny and butthurt and chickenshit? That's Obama claiming he'll debate on any issue anytime and turning down McCain's offer of 1 debate a week until the election.

[Feng]

This must be such an exciting time for Sarah Palin... She finally gets to see the country! I mean, for somebody who's never left Wasilla, now that she's on the campaign trail and being whisked off to such fairy tale cities as Cleveland... She must think she's Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz...

I bet she wonders where all the Moose have gone... I know she's already making plans to have Air Force One fitted with a gun-rack...

[freegood]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us/politics/21debate.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1

...
At the insistence of the McCain campaign, the Oct. 2 debate between the Republican nominee for vice president, Gov. Sarah Palin, and her Democratic rival, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., will have shorter question-and-answer segments than those for the presidential nominees, the advisers said. There will also be much less opportunity for free-wheeling, direct exchanges between the running mates.

McCain advisers said they had been concerned that a loose format could leave Ms. Palin, a relatively inexperienced debater, at a disadvantage and largely on the defensive.

The wrangling was chiefly between the McCain-Palin camp and the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates, which is sponsoring the forums.

Commission members wanted a relaxed format that included time for unpredictable questioning and challenges between the two vice-presidential candidates. On Wednesday, the commission unanimously rejected a proposal sought by advisers to Ms. Palin and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the Republican presidential nominee, to have the moderator ask questions and the candidates answer, with no time for unfettered exchanges. Advisers to Mr. Biden say they were comfortable with either format.
....


=---=================

A slight disadvantage would be an over exaggeration.

GoBless Americuhh

[Yelram]

Its funny how bigoted you "open minded" types are when you feel threatened. What did she say that you disagree with in that interview?

[kid_vidrio]

Its funny how bigoted you "open minded" types are when you feel threatened. What did she say that you disagree with in that interview?
With all due respect anti-marley, what has she said thus far that has any merit? Her style of speech, with things like 'gonna' and her willingness to drop the g from every active verb - 'We're pumpin' a lot of oil here in Alaska!' drives me up the wall, but even that could be overlooked if there was nationally consumable fiber in the substance. But there isn't. There just isn't. This isn't bigotry.

[heelsguy]

This must be such an exciting time for Sarah Palin... She finally gets to see the country! I mean, for somebody who's never left Wasilla, now that she's on the campaign trail and being whisked off to such fairy tale cities as Cleveland... She must think she's Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz...

I bet she wonders where all the Moose have gone... I know she's already making plans to have Air Force One fitted with a gun-rack...


she has lived in Idado, Hawaii, and Alaska. and that is just places where she has LIVED

she has seen more of the US than many people have

[Yelram]

With all due respect anti-marley, what has she said thus far that has any merit? Her style of speech, with things like 'gonna' and her willingness to drop the g from every active verb - 'We're pumpin' a lot of oil here in Alaska!' drives me up the wall, but even that could be overlooked if there was nationally consumable fiber in the substance. But there isn't. There just isn't. This isn't bigotry.

I agree with just about everything she's been a proponent of, what do you DISagree with, because thats what matters. I'd prefer to talk about issues instead of the "way people talk". Barack says UHHHH every two words and everyone applauds like he's some great speaker.

Lets just get a little list of things she's done as governor, so we can see if you actually like her or not..

1. She overtook an incumbent to become governor.
2. She spent less in her campaign, and still won by 8%
3. She's got close to a 90% approval rating in Alaska
4. Palin had championed ethics reform throughout her election campaign. Her first legislative action after taking office was to push for a bipartisan ethics reform bill. She signed the resulting legislation in July 2007, calling it a "first step" declaring that she remains determined to clean up Alaska politics.[77] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-76)

5.Palin has sometimes broken with the state Republican establishment. For example, she endorsed Sean Parnell's bid to unseat the state's longtime at-large U.S. Representative, Don Young (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Young)
6.
In June 2007, Palin signed a record $6.6 billion operating budget into law.[89] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-Shinohara-88) At the same time, she used her veto power to make the second-largest cuts of the construction budget in state history. The $237 million in cuts represented over 300 local projects, and reduced the construction budget to $1.6 billion.[90] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-alaskajournal1-89) In 2008 Palin vetoed $286 million and cutting or reducing funding for 350 projects from the FY09 capital budget.[91] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-90)
Palin followed through on a campaign promise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_promise) to sell the Westwind II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westwind_II) jet, a purchase made by the Murkowski administration for $2.7 million in 2005 against the wishes of the legislature.[92] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-91) In August 2007, the jet was listed on eBay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay), but the sale fell through, and the plane was later sold for $2.1 million through a private brokerage firm.[93] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-92) Palin lives in Juneau during the legislative session and lives in Wasilla and works out of offices in Anchorage the rest of the year. Since the office in Anchorage is far from Juneau, while she works there she is legally entitled to a $58 per diem travel allowance, which she has taken (a total of $16,951), and to reimbursement for hotels, which she has not, choosing instead to drive about 50 miles to her home in Wasilla.[94] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-wash-post-nights-93) She also chose not to use the former governor's private chef.[95] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-94) In response to criticism for taking the per diem, and for $43,490 in travel expenses for the the times her family accompanied her on state business, the governor's staffers said that these practices were in line with state policy, that Palin's gubernatorial expenses are 80% below those of her predecessor, Frank Murkowski,[96] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-95) and that "many of the hundreds of invitations Palin receives include requests for her to bring her family, placing the definition of 'state business' with the party extending the invitation."

But i'm sure the way she says her Gs is really important to you, along with her hair color, and what type of shoes she's wearing. God I hate stupid people.

[Snatch]

Palin's educational background leaves a bit to be desired.

[Snatch]

Just read a Boston Globe article about her:

"In the council, she spoke out against a push by the city police to shut Wasilla's bars at 2 a.m. instead of 4 a.m., to prevent drunken driving by patrons who came after Anchorage's bars closed at 2 a.m."

In context, her church preached alcohol abstinence. It was a "surprising" move on her part. It shows that she can push agenda's that waver from her religious beliefs for the benefit of her constituents.

"As mayor from 1996 to 2002, Palin slashed property tax rates by 75 percent and built roads and sewer and water lines that brought the big-box stores to Wasilla, said Dianne M. Keller, the current mayor. Keller credited Palin with helping Wasilla grow and draw 50,000 shoppers a day."

Slashed taxes, helped build up the economy. That's two positives.

[Yelram]

Palin's educational background leaves a bit to be desired.

Yeah not like Biden.

Biden attended the University of Delaware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Delaware) in Newark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark,_Delaware),[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-cong-bio-9) where by his own later description he was a lazy student.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-auto-26-10) He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Arts) with a double major in history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History) and political science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_science) in 1965,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-ap-timeline-1) ranked 506th of 688 in his class.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-11)
He went on to receive his Juris Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor) from Syracuse University College of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University_College_of_Law) in 1968,[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-cong-bio-9) where by his own description he again underperformed and ranked 76th of 85 students.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-auto-26-10)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-nyt091887-12) During his first year there, he was accused of having plagiarized 5 of 15 pages of a law review article. Biden said it was inadvertent due to his not knowing the proper rules of citation, and Biden was permitted to retake the course after receiving a grade of F, which was subsequently dropped from his record.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-nyt091887-12) (The issue came up in 1987 during Biden's presidential campaign, and later that year the Delaware Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Supreme_Court)'s Board of Professional Responsibility cleared Biden of the plagiarism charges regarding his standing as a lawyer, saying Biden had "not violated any rules".)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-nyt-cleared-13) Biden was admitted to the Delaware Bar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_association) in 1969.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-cong-bio-9)

[Snatch]

Yeah not like Biden.

Biden attended the University of Delaware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Delaware) in Newark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark,_Delaware),[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-cong-bio-9) where by his own later description he was a lazy student.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-auto-26-10) He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelor_of_Arts) with a double major in history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History) and political science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_science) in 1965,[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-ap-timeline-1) ranked 506th of 688 in his class.[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-11)
He went on to receive his Juris Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juris_Doctor) from Syracuse University College of Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syracuse_University_College_of_Law) in 1968,[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-cong-bio-9) where by his own description he again underperformed and ranked 76th of 85 students.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-auto-26-10)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-nyt091887-12) During his first year there, he was accused of having plagiarized 5 of 15 pages of a law review article. Biden said it was inadvertent due to his not knowing the proper rules of citation, and Biden was permitted to retake the course after receiving a grade of F, which was subsequently dropped from his record.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-nyt091887-12) (The issue came up in 1987 during Biden's presidential campaign, and later that year the Delaware Supreme Court (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_Supreme_Court)'s Board of Professional Responsibility cleared Biden of the plagiarism charges regarding his standing as a lawyer, saying Biden had "not violated any rules".)[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-nyt-cleared-13) Biden was admitted to the Delaware Bar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_association) in 1969.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biden#cite_note-cong-bio-9)

JD vs. BS in Journalism-Communications.

[Yelram]

JD vs. BS in Journalism-Communications.

Not so much the degree, but the fact that he was a slacker, and its obvious that his main intention in his education was keeping out of vietnam. I dont believe highly educated people make good representatives, because they get cocky, and think they know whats best instead of doing whats best for the people. I'd rather have someone who represents the people by being like them, than someone who thinks they are better than the people, because they spent more years in a college somewhere, not in the private sector. I'd rather elect an average person than a lawyer.

[Desperado]

I dont believe highly educated people make good representatives


Shocking...

Bush has been a good president at a bad time.

[Rover]

Not so much the degree, but the fact that he was a slacker, and its obvious that his main intention in his education was keeping out of vietnam. I dont believe highly educated people make good representatives, because they get cocky, and think they know whats best instead of doing whats best for the people. I'd rather have someone who represents the people by being like them, than someone who thinks they are better than the people, because they spent more years in a college somewhere, not in the private sector. I'd rather elect an average person than a lawyer.

]I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.

[Feng]

she has lived in Idado, Hawaii, and Alaska. and that is just places where she has LIVED

she has seen more of the US than many people have

Nice try... She was born in Idaho and was moved to Alaska as an infant...

She grew up in Wasilla and was the head of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. (Sort of like the Fellowship of the ring, but with Jesus instead of Frodo)

She went to Hawaii Pacific College - but only for one semester, so that's what, 4 months in Hawaii???

then she went to college in Idaho for only 2 years - a great state if you're into potatoes. Yet somehow she managed to win the Miss Wasilla beauty pageant while attending college in Idaho, so how much time could she really have been there... Then back to Alaska for some more college and then back to Idaho again for a final 3 semesters.

Anyways after a couple months in Hawaii and a couple years in the diverse and metropolitan state of Idaho, she returned back to her little corner of the world in Wasilla - where she was raised, and started and raised her own family and from where she governs her city and state.

She has NO culture. She only got her first passport EVER a little over a year ago.. She has been nowhere, she has no knowledge of much of anything outside her little town of Wasilla... and now she's in position to be president of this country....

Americans have to ask themselves, when the day comes that we finally see our first female president... is a redneck ignorant self-proclaimed hockey-mom with no cultural or national or even global experience really the woman you want to fill that position in the history book? Has Amercia really fallen so low?

[Claydon]

Barry came from Hawaii. Truman owned a haberdashery in missouri and he made the decision to drop the bomb in dubya dubya two.

[Claydon]

This must be such an exciting time for Sarah Palin... She finally gets to see the country! I mean, for somebody who's never left Wasilla, now that she's on the campaign trail and being whisked off to such fairy tale cities as Cleveland... She must think she's Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz...

I bet she wonders where all the Moose have gone... I know she's already making plans to have Air Force One fitted with a gun-rack...


Feng represents the typical Bill Maher fan. A voter who gets the vast majority of his political news from Bill Maher, as well as whatever publication Feng's union vomits up. The dems have little on McCain so they go after his noob vp nom. and McCain's age. Both arguements scream weak sauce.

[Snatch]

Education does matter. It gives historical and cultural relevance in decision making. It teaches economic principals. It teaches the constitution.

I'm not saying it's necessary to have a Harvard degree. I'm just saying, I would take a JD over a BS in communications.

She obviously excelled in office in Alaska. That's where she has spent most of her life, and she was well acclimated to that environment.

I do take Palin over Biden (good job during the cold war), but that's because I hate any liberal that's been in office long enough to have a record.

[Snatch]

Here's a good question.

Show an example of Palin policy where she allows her personal religious beliefs to dictate.

I showed a counterexample with the bar.

You can be a fucking alarmist, biased, ignorant piece of shit like Matt Damon, or you can talk record.

[TheImpossibleMan]

Isn't her support of abstinence-only being taught, even though studies clearly show it's unsuccessful and fails, an example?

[heelsguy]

feng, you're an idiot and a biased one at that.

Biden has experience and has seen the world and that is all well and good but that fact still does not stop him from putting his foot in his mouth every other speech and stealing from other speakers.

[TheImpossibleMan]

But I thought the fact that Obama is one of the best public speakers in American history doesn't matter?

[Cornelius]

No it doesn't matter. The guy is all smoke and mirrors. There have been plenty of charismatic people in history that have been able to win people over with smooth talk. Obama never really says a damn thing. He most definitely will be all promise and no delivery. Simply because he has no idea now to provide everything he says he will.

[freegood]

You'd be surprised if your read Obama's proposals on his website. Not that I'm expecting you to.

When it comes to McCain providing for his economic plans, it gets pretty damn messy. Not that I'm expecting you to read everything he says.

[Desperado]

You'd be surprised if your read Obama's proposals on his website. Not that I'm expecting you to.

When it comes to McCain providing for his economic plans, it gets pretty damn messy. Not that I'm expecting you to read everything he says.


Reading can be very difficult for some people here... Video and sound helps.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_1X3efvVTLA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_1X3efvVTLA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Snatch]

Support for Abstinence-Only education is words.

What has she actually DONE in that regard?

Is that what is taught in Alaskan schools? Has funding been withheld from schools?

[Axel]

Reading can be very difficult for some people here... Video and sound helps.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_1X3efvVTLA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_1X3efvVTLA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>Frightening.

In any case, America will get the president it deserves.

[Snatch]

I guess Palin really isn't that scary.

[Feng]

Feng represents the typical Bill Maher fan. A voter who gets the vast majority of his political news from Bill Maher, as well as whatever publication Feng's union vomits up. The dems have little on McCain so they go after his noob vp nom. and McCain's age. Both arguements scream weak sauce.

And Claydon represent the typical flat-earth fan... A voter who gets the majority of his political news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

The Dems have plenty on McCain...
-Gaff, Gaff, Gaff
-Deregulate, deregulate, deregulate
-Supports Bush over 90% of the time
-Voted for the Iraq war
-Answer to last weeks financial disaster - fire the SEC boss - something the President has no authority to do and like that would solve a thing anyways!
-Consistently shows he is out of touch with American public on all the important issues
-Gaff, gaff, gaff

McCain's only political legacy is his campaign finance reform which is political only anyways - I don't give a shit in my life about political campaign finance reform - oops look at that, I think I just put McCain and Reform in the same sentence - how silly of me. :eek:

[Snatch]

And Claydon represent the typical flat-earth fan... A voter who gets the majority of his political news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

The Dems have plenty on McCain...
-Gaff, Gaff, Gaff
-Deregulate, deregulate, deregulate
-Supports Bush over 90% of the time
-Voted for the Iraq war
-Answer to last weeks financial disaster - fire the SEC boss - something the President has no authority to do and like that would solve a thing anyways!
-Consistently shows he is out of touch with American public on all the important issues
-Gaff, gaff, gaff

McCain's only political legacy is his campaign finance reform which is political only anyways - I don't give a shit in my life about political campaign finance reform - oops look at that, I think I just put McCain and Reform in the same sentence - how silly of me. :eek:

Thread's about Palin douchebag.

I posted a question.

Answer that, and I'll pretend to respect you.

[Pox]

Support for Abstinence-Only education is words.

What has she actually DONE in that regard?

Is that what is taught in Alaskan schools? Has funding been withheld from schools?

This is a very strange argument.

[Snatch]

This is a very strange argument.

She was a mayor and a governor.

She could've lobbied aggressively for the curriculum to be changed.

Shit, I'm for getting blowjobs all the fucking time. I think it would be great if women had to constantly give men blowjobs. If I was president, I would not try to make a law that all women had to give blowjobs constantly.

[Feng]

Thread's about Palin douchebag.

I posted a question.

Answer that, and I'll pretend to respect you.

Umm, this thread is over 40 pages of internet dribble...

And why would I want your respect?

I only want Claydon's respect... :p

[redsox39]

Men have no say in a woman choosing to have an abortion or not. We don't carry the child for 9 months. Thats a BIG difference in the sexes when it comes to having a child. We can walk away (and often do). There is obvious difference that you don't seem to see/understand. The only reason we have to pay for it is because the courts require us to and sometimes that doesn't matter because some men won't pay anyway. And you dumb piece of shit, a Man helps pay for the child to SUPPORT the child, but the mother is EQUALLY responsible. Thats what makes it fair. And the man is only required to pay for it, if he WALKS AWAY, as any REAL MAN should.

Please, you don't have to walk away. She could leave your ass, and take the kids and you still pay, it has nothing to do with the behavior of the man. They could still be "dating" or together and she can still collect child support from you. Been there.
I am a lucky guy, as I was the one getting child support payments from the mother. I was a single father for 2 years with a baby, which is scary to think about, but it is not like women have some magic touch to do it better by any means.

[UNC]

Pics?

[redsox39]

And Claydon represent the typical flat-earth fan... A voter who gets the majority of his political news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox News.

The Dems have plenty on McCain...
-Gaff, Gaff, Gaff
-Deregulate, deregulate, deregulate
-Supports Bush over 90% of the time
-Voted for the Iraq war
-Answer to last weeks financial disaster - fire the SEC boss - something the President has no authority to do and like that would solve a thing anyways!
-Consistently shows he is out of touch with American public on all the important issues
-Gaff, gaff, gaff

McCain's only political legacy is his campaign finance reform which is political only anyways - I don't give a shit in my life about political campaign finance reform - oops look at that, I think I just put McCain and Reform in the same sentence - how silly of me. :eek:


If you really have all this dirt, then why is all I hear about is "McCain is old" and "Palin wanted to fire a drunk who tazed a kid".

It really is kinda weak.

BTW, Tina Fey as Palin on SNL was fucking awesome!

[freegood]

Obama needs to buy some NASCAR ads asap.

[The Batman]

Here's a good question.

Show an example of Palin policy where she allows her personal religious beliefs to dictate.

I showed a counterexample with the bar.

You can be a fucking alarmist, biased, ignorant piece of shit like Matt Damon, or you can talk record.

something i found, not my words:
" What is important about Palin's religious beliefs is not her application of them to her personal life but her desire to impose them on others through public law and policy. Palin, who wants to criminalize abortion, chose to carry a Down syndrome fetus to term after receiving a prenatal diagnosis through amniocentesis. That is her absolute right. But 90 percent of American women who receive the same diagnosis choose to terminate their pregnancies. Palin wants to force her values on women who do not agree with her, and that is the definition of religious extremism.

Palin is also on record as supporting the teaching of religious alternatives to evolution in public school science classes. That is yet another issue at the intersection of public policy and private religious belief. "



Also, give me a specific example of what Damon said that was off? It is sorta like a bad disney movie right?

[Snatch]

something i found, not my words:
" What is important about Palin's religious beliefs is not her application of them to her personal life but her desire to impose them on others through public law and policy. Palin, who wants to criminalize abortion, chose to carry a Down syndrome fetus to term after receiving a prenatal diagnosis through amniocentesis. That is her absolute right. But 90 percent of American women who receive the same diagnosis choose to terminate their pregnancies. Palin wants to force her values on women who do not agree with her, and that is the definition of religious extremism.

Palin is also on record as supporting the teaching of religious alternatives to evolution in public school science classes. That is yet another issue at the intersection of public policy and private religious belief. "



Also, give me a specific example of what Damon said that was off? It is sorta like a bad disney movie right?

Source?

Like I said, she's on record as supporting. What does that mean?

Damon was off, because he said that he didn't know anything about her, but that he was scared shitless. He was off by listing odds that a man was going to die. He was off by implying Palin wanted to ban books.

All I'm asking for is a reason to be alarmist. I can go find hundreds of things on record that I would probably KILL Biden on.

Either way, I'm voting Libertarian or for Obama.

[The Batman]

Source?

Like I said, she's on record as supporting. What does that mean?

Damon was off, because he said that he didn't know anything about her, but that he was scared shitless. He was off by listing odds that a man was going to die. He was off by implying Palin wanted to ban books.

All I'm asking for is a reason to be alarmist. I can go find hundreds of things on record that I would probably KILL Biden on.

Either way, I'm voting Libertarian or for Obama.

I don't think WE know anything about her, which is quite frightening because someone who could potentially have that much power should have a lot of their life scrutinized.

as far as the banned books thing, here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

Basically she didn't get any books banned, but she initiated a conversation about removing them. Which is not good in my book.

[Snatch]

I don't think WE know anything about her, which is quite frightening because someone who could potentially have that much power should have a lot of their life scrutinized.

as far as the banned books thing, here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/bannedbooks.asp

Basically she didn't get any books banned, but she initiated a conversation about removing them. Which is not good in my book.

What do we know about Obama?

[Snatch]

Here's what I have learned about Palin:

1. She is deeply religious, but those beliefs haven't caused her to actually promote any crazy ass policies. Just talk.

2. If you asked her what Marbury v. Madison was, she'd tell you it was a PPV fight.

3. She has done a good enough job in her home city and state to receive tremendous approval ratings, in a day and age where that is extremely rare.

4. She wants to lower earmarks, campaign spending, and corruption.

5. She is willing to go across party lines to get what she wants done.

[Desperado]

What do we know about Obama?


http://www.barackobama.com/learn/meet_barack.php

[The Batman]

Here's what I have learned about Palin:

1. She is deeply religious, but those beliefs haven't caused her to actually promote any crazy ass policies. Just talk.

2. If you asked her what Marbury v. Madison was, she'd tell you it was a PPV fight.

3. She has done a good enough job in her home city and state to receive tremendous approval ratings, in a day and age where that is extremely rare.

4. She wants to lower earmarks, campaign spending, and corruption.

5. She is willing to go across party lines to get what she wants done.

1. Its because she hasn't had the power to enact those crazy ass policies. I find it quite distressing to hear her say that we are on a mission from God when it comes to the War in iraq, much like our current leader.

2. lol

3. She has done a good job and no one is debating that, I just feel like thats not enough.

4. That is not enough. This is all they are focusing on, and a good canidate needs more than just to do a little reform, because there is a lot more wrong with this country.

5. Great. Everyone should.

[Snatch]

1. Its because she hasn't had the power to enact those crazy ass policies. I find it quite distressing to hear her say that we are on a mission from God when it comes to the War in iraq, much like our current leader.

2. lol

3. She has done a good job and no one is debating that, I just feel like thats not enough.

4. That is not enough. This is all they are focusing on, and a good canidate needs more than just to do a little reform, because there is a lot more wrong with this country.

5. Great. Everyone should.

Bullshit? She was a fucking mayor. She could've pushed a change in curriculum hard enough to get it done. Then she was the fucking governor.

She has held an executive office.

[The Batman]

Bullshit? She was a fucking mayor. She could've pushed a change in curriculum hard enough to get it done. Then she was the fucking governor.

She has held an executive office.

She is govenor of Alaska. Call me when its a real state. lol.

[Snatch]

She is govenor of Alaska. Call me when its a real state. lol.

Call me when Arkansas is.

[The Batman]

Call me when Arkansas is.

A redneck state. But didn't Bill Clinton have a lot more credentials than Sarah Palin did when he ran for president? (i am not sure, so if anyone knows, be sure to answer.)

[Pharon]

A redneck state. But didn't Bill Clinton have a lot more credentials than Sarah Palin did when he ran for president? (i am not sure, so if anyone knows, be sure to answer.)
He was governor of Arkansas for 11 years prior to running for President.

Also, Arkansas has over 3 million people. Alaska has less than 700,000.

[Hanover Fist]

He was governor of Arkansas for 11 years prior to running for President.

Also, Arkansas has over 3 million people. Alaska has less than 700,000.

Yeah but if Arkansas disappeared tomorrow nobody would probably notice or care. If Alaska disappeared tomorrow, the US might be in a bit of trouble.

[Pharon]

All I'm saying is that if you're gonna compare governing qualities, it's probably a lot harder to be an executive of a state that has more people than caribou. That's all.

Not that I don't disagree with you.

[Snatch]

Shit v. Piss.

Either way, Clinton ran for president, Palin is a VP candidate.

My point was just that many people would argue that Clinton was a succesful president, despite being the governor of a podunk ass state.

[BiōHazard]

Obama/Palin 08.

Experience? FUCK experience.

[freegood]

This guy writes shit tons on Palin's religiousity and her celebration of ignorance.

When Atheists Attack (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160080/output/print)

A noted provocateur rips Sarah Palin—and defends elitism.
Sam Harris
NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Sep 29, 2008

Let me confess that I was genuinely unnerved by Sarah Palin's performance at the Republican convention. Given her audience and the needs of the moment, I believe Governor Palin's speech was the most effective political communication I have ever witnessed. Here, finally, was a performer who—being maternal, wounded, righteous and sexy—could stride past the frontal cortex of every American and plant a three-inch heel directly on that limbic circuit that ceaselessly intones "God and country." If anyone could make Christian theocracy smell like apple pie, Sarah Palin could.

Then came Palin's first television interview with Charles Gibson. I was relieved to discover, as many were, that Palin's luster can be much diminished by the absence of a teleprompter. Still, the problem she poses to our political process is now much bigger than she is. Her fans seem inclined to forgive her any indiscretion short of cannibalism. However badly she may stumble during the remaining weeks of this campaign, her supporters will focus their outrage upon the journalist who caused her to break stride, upon the camera operator who happened to capture her fall, upon the television network that broadcast the good lady's misfortune—and, above all, upon the "liberal elites" with their highfalutin assumption that, in the 21st century, only a reasonably well-educated person should be given command of our nuclear arsenal.

The point to be lamented is not that Sarah Palin comes from outside Washington, or that she has glimpsed so little of the earth's surface (she didn't have a passport until last year), or that she's never met a foreign head of state. The point is that she comes to us, seeking the second most important job in the world, without any intellectual training relevant to the challenges and responsibilities that await her. There is nothing to suggest that she even sees a role for careful analysis or a deep understanding of world events when it comes to deciding the fate of a nation. In her interview with Gibson, Palin managed to turn a joke about seeing Russia from her window into a straight-faced claim that Alaska's geographical proximity to Russia gave her some essential foreign-policy experience. Palin may be a perfectly wonderful person, a loving mother and a great American success story—but she is a beauty queen/sports reporter who stumbled into small-town politics, and who is now on the verge of stumbling into, or upon, world history.

The problem, as far as our political process is concerned, is that half the electorate revels in Palin's lack of intellectual qualifications. When it comes to politics, there is a mad love of mediocrity in this country. "They think they're better than you!" is the refrain that (highly competent and cynical) Republican strategists have set loose among the crowd, and the crowd has grown drunk on it once again. "Sarah Palin is an ordinary person!" Yes, all too ordinary.

We have all now witnessed apparently sentient human beings, once provoked by a reporter's microphone, saying things like, "I'm voting for Sarah because she's a mom. She knows what it's like to be a mom." Such sentiments suggest an uncanny (and, one fears, especially American) detachment from the real problems of today. The next administration must immediately confront issues like nuclear proliferation, ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (and covert wars elsewhere), global climate change, a convulsing economy, Russian belligerence, the rise of China, emerging epidemics, Islamism on a hundred fronts, a defunct United Nations, the deterioration of American schools, failures of energy, infrastructure and Internet security … the list is long, and Sarah Palin does not seem competent even to rank these items in order of importance, much less address any one of them.

Palin's most conspicuous gaffe in her interview with Gibson has been widely discussed. The truth is, I didn't much care that she did not know the meaning of the phrase "Bush doctrine." And I am quite sure that her supporters didn't care, either. Most people view such an ambush as a journalistic gimmick. What I do care about are all the other things Palin is guaranteed not to know—or will be glossing only under the frenzied tutelage of John McCain's advisers. What doesn't she know about financial markets, Islam, the history of the Middle East, the cold war, modern weapons systems, medical research, environmental science or emerging technology? Her relative ignorance is guaranteed on these fronts and most others, not because she was put on the spot, or got nervous, or just happened to miss the newspaper on any given morning. Sarah Palin's ignorance is guaranteed because of how she has spent the past 44 years on earth.

I care even more about the many things Palin thinks she knows but doesn't: like her conviction that the Biblical God consciously directs world events. Needless to say, she shares this belief with mil-lions of Americans—but we shouldn't be eager to give these people our nuclear codes, either. There is no question that if President McCain chokes on a spare rib and Palin becomes the first woman president, she and her supporters will believe that God, in all his majesty and wisdom, has brought it to pass. Why would God give Sarah Palin a job she isn't ready for? He wouldn't. Everything happens for a reason. Palin seems perfectly willing to stake the welfare of our country—even the welfare of our species—as collateral in her own personal journey of faith. Of course, McCain has made the same unconscionable wager on his personal journey to the White House.

In speaking before her church about her son going to war in Iraq, Palin urged the congregation to pray "that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God; that's what we have to make sure we are praying for, that there is a plan, and that plan is God's plan." When asked about these remarks in her interview with Gibson, Palin successfully dodged the issue of her religious beliefs by claiming that she had been merely echoing the words of Abraham Lincoln. The New York Times later dubbed her response "absurd." It was worse than absurd; it was a lie calculated to conceal the true character of her religious infatuations. Every detail that has emerged about Palin's life in Alaska suggests that she is as devout and literal-minded in her Christian dogmatism as any man or woman in the land. Given her long affiliation with the Assemblies of God church, Palin very likely believes that Biblical prophecy is an infallible guide to future events and that we are living in the "end times." Which is to say she very likely thinks that human history will soon unravel in a foreordained cataclysm of war and bad weather. Undoubtedly Palin believes that this will be a good thing—as all true Christians will be lifted bodily into the sky to make merry with Jesus, while all nonbelievers, Jews, Methodists and other rabble will be punished for eternity in a lake of fire. Like many Pentecostals, Palin may even imagine that she and her fellow parishioners enjoy the power of prophecy themselves. Otherwise, what could she have meant when declaring to her congregation that "God's going to tell you what is going on, and what is going to go on, and you guys are going to have that within you"?

You can learn something about a person by the company she keeps. In the churches where Palin has worshiped for decades, parishioners enjoy "baptism in the Holy Spirit," "miraculous healings" and "the gift of tongues." Invariably, they offer astonishingly irrational accounts of this behavior and of its significance for the entire cosmos. Palin's spiritual colleagues describe themselves as part of "the final generation," engaged in "spiritual warfare" to purge the earth of "demonic strongholds." Palin has spent her entire adult life immersed in this apocalyptic hysteria. Ask yourself: Is it a good idea to place the most powerful military on earth at her disposal? Do we actually want our leaders thinking about the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy when it comes time to say to the Iranians, or to the North Koreans, or to the Pakistanis, or to the Russians or to the Chinese: "All options remain on the table"?

It is easy to see what many people, women especially, admire about Sarah Palin. Here is a mother of five who can see the bright side of having a child with Down syndrome and still find the time and energy to govern the state of Alaska. But we cannot ignore the fact that Palin's impressive family further testifies to her dogmatic religious beliefs. Many writers have noted the many shades of conservative hypocrisy on view here: when Jamie Lynn Spears gets pregnant, it is considered a symptom of liberal decadence and the breakdown of family values; in the case of one of Palin's daughters, however, teen pregnancy gets reinterpreted as a sign of immaculate, small-town fecundity. And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of "the dysfunction in the black community"?

Teen pregnancy is a misfortune, plain and simple. At best, it represents bad luck (both for the mother and for the child); at worst, as in the Palins' case, it is a symptom of religious dogmatism. Governor Palin opposes sex education in schools on religious grounds. She has also fought vigorously for a "parental consent law" in the state of Alaska, seeking full parental dominion over the reproductive decisions of minors. We know, therefore, that Palin believes that she should be the one to decide whether her daughter carries her baby to term. Based on her stated position, we know that she would deny her daughter an abortion even if she had been raped. One can be forgiven for doubting whether Bristol Palin had all the advantages of 21st-century family planning—or, indeed, of the 21st century.

We have endured eight years of an administration that seemed touched by religious ideology. Bush's claim to Bob Woodward that he consulted a "higher Father" before going to war in Iraq got many of us sitting upright, before our attention wandered again to less ethereal signs of his incompetence. For all my concern about Bush's religious beliefs, and about his merely average grasp of terrestrial reality, I have never once thought that he was an over-the-brink, Rapture-ready extremist. Palin seems as though she might be the real McCoy. With the McCain team leading her around like a pet pony between now and Election Day, she can be expected to conceal her religious extremism until it is too late to do anything about it. Her supporters know that while she cannot afford to "talk the talk" between now and Nov. 4, if elected, she can be trusted to "walk the walk" until the Day of Judgment.

What is so unnerving about the candidacy of Sarah Palin is the degree to which she represents—and her supporters celebrate—the joyful marriage of confidence and ignorance. Watching her deny to Gibson that she had ever harbored the slightest doubt about her readiness to take command of the world's only superpower, one got the feeling that Palin would gladly assume any responsibility on earth:

"Governor Palin, are you ready at this moment to perform surgery on this child's brain?"

"Of course, Charlie. I have several boys of my own, and I'm an avid hunter."

"But governor, this is neurosurgery, and you have no training as a surgeon of any kind."

"That's just the point, Charlie. The American people want change in how we make medical decisions in this country. And when faced with a challenge, you cannot blink."

The prospects of a Palin administration are far more frightening, in fact, than those of a Palin Institute for Pediatric Neurosurgery. Ask yourself: how has "elitism" become a bad word in American politics? There is simply no other walk of life in which extraordinary talent and rigorous training are denigrated. We want elite pilots to fly our planes, elite troops to undertake our most critical missions, elite athletes to represent us in competition and elite scientists to devote the most productive years of their lives to curing our diseases. And yet, when it comes time to vest people with even greater responsibilities, we consider it a virtue to shun any and all standards of excellence. When it comes to choosing the people whose thoughts and actions will decide the fates of millions, then we suddenly want someone just like us, someone fit to have a beer with, someone down-to-earth—in fact, almost anyone, provided that he or she doesn't seem too intelligent or well educated.

I believe that with the nomination of Sarah Palin for the vice presidency, the silliness of our politics has finally put our nation at risk. The world is growing more complex—and dangerous—with each passing hour, and our position within it growing more precarious. Should she become president, Palin seems capable of enacting policies so detached from the common interests of humanity, and from empirical reality, as to unite the entire world against us. When asked why she is qualified to shoulder more responsibility than any person has held in human history, Palin cites her refusal to hesitate. "You can't blink," she told Gibson repeatedly, as though this were a primordial truth of wise governance. Let us hope that a President Palin would blink, again and again, while more thoughtful people decide the fate of civilization.

[Rover]

Not knowing who Sam Harris is, I was able to deduct the following things from his article:

1) He is an atheist who is afraid of religious people
2) He went to an elite university and has little use for people who didn't get into an Ivy League school. He doesn't even bother to conceal the disdain he has for people who he doesn't believe are properly educated. From this article Harris makes it sound like the only proper president is one who is all knowing.

From research, I found that I was correct on both accounts. He's an atheist who writes books about how stupid religious people are, and he went to Stanford. I feel like Sherlock Holmes.

[mongo]

you know, if you go back to the old gmf politics thread, prior to any candidate being picked, i could have told everyone who each of you was going to vote for party wise. you're all no different than your parents. only one gmf'er has thrown me for a loop. congrats emj!

[Soup Nazi]

Obviously that article is extremely biased, but it is pretty spot on in identifying Palin's church as being pretty far outside of mainstream Christianity, even in the evangelical movement. Now whether this will effect her potential legislation, or if it is all just to rally her base, is yet to be seen.

[Claydon]

you know, if you go back to the old gmf politics thread, prior to any candidate being picked, i could have told everyone who each of you was going to vote for party wise. you're all no different than your parents. only one gmf'er has thrown me for a loop. congrats emj!

my parents are voting for obama and i have been carrying a torch for mccain since 2000.

you fail

[Hanover Fist]

Yeah, my mom is a registered Democrat and my dad is a Republican, so I'm not sure how I could vote exactly like my parents. Either way I was going to vote like one of them.

[freegood]

My dad was a Republican and my mom doesn't trust a black dude to run the country.

[kareyn01]

Hell, I voted for Bush over Gore in 2000. That wasn't my best decision.

[The Batman]

Ask yourself: how has "elitism" become a bad word in American politics? There is simply no other walk of life in which extraordinary talent and rigorous training are denigrated. We want elite pilots to fly our planes, elite troops to undertake our most critical missions, elite athletes to represent us in competition and elite scientists to devote the most productive years of their lives to curing our diseases. And yet, when it comes time to vest people with even greater responsibilities, we consider it a virtue to shun any and all standards of excellence. When it comes to choosing the people whose thoughts and actions will decide the fates of millions, then we suddenly want someone just like us, someone fit to have a beer with, someone down-to-earth—in fact, almost anyone, provided that he or she doesn't seem too intelligent or well educated.

I know most of what he said can be taken down to this whole athiest thing, but this statement could not be more true. If someone disagrees with this statement, please let me know why.

[Desperado]

Palin bans reporters from meetings with leaders
By SARA KUGLER, Associated Press Writer 6 minutes ago


NEW YORK - Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, who has not held a press conference in nearly four weeks of campaigning, on Tuesday banned reporters from her first meetings with world leaders, allowing access only to photographers and a television crew.

CNN, which was providing the television coverage for news organizations, decided to pull its TV crew, effectively denying Palin the high visibility she had sought.
Palin planned to meet Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Colombian President Alvaro Uribe in New York on Tuesday as the United Nations General Assembly convenes this week. She also was expected to meet with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
Those sessions and meetings scheduled for Wednesday are part of the Republican campaign's effort to give Palin experience in foreign affairs. She has never met a foreign head of state and first traveled outside North America just last year.
The campaign told the TV producer, print and wire reporters in the press pool that follows the Alaska governor that they would not be admitted with the photographers and camera crew taken in to photograph the meetings. At least two news organizations, including The Associated Press, objected and were told that the decision was not subject to discussion.
Palin has been criticized for avoiding taking questions from reporters or submitting to one-on-one interviews. She has had just two major interviews since Republican presidential candidate John McCain chose her as his running mate on Aug. 29.
On Wednesday, McCain and Palin were expected to meet jointly with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and Ukrainian President Viktor Yuschenko. Palin was then to meet separately with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080923/ap_on_el_pr/palin_leaders

[kid_vidrio]

you know, if you go back to the old gmf politics thread, prior to any candidate being picked, i could have told everyone who each of you was going to vote for party wise. you're all no different than your parents. only one gmf'er has thrown me for a loop. congrats emj!
I don't vote for a party.

[VoxAngelikus]

Palin bans reporters from meetings with leaders
By SARA KUGLER, Associated Press Writer 6 minutes ago


NEW YORK - Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, who has not held a press conference in nearly four weeks of campaigning, on Tuesday banned reporters from her first meetings with world leaders, allowing access only to photographers and a television crew.

CNN, which was providing the television coverage for news organizations, decided to pull its TV crew, effectively denying Palin the high visibility she had sought.
Palin planned to meet Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Colombian President Alvaro Uribe in New York on Tuesday as the United Nations General Assembly convenes this week. She also was expected to meet with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
Those sessions and meetings scheduled for Wednesday are part of the Republican campaign's effort to give Palin experience in foreign affairs. She has never met a foreign head of state and first traveled outside North America just last year.
The campaign told the TV producer, print and wire reporters in the press pool that follows the Alaska governor that they would not be admitted with the photographers and camera crew taken in to photograph the meetings. At least two news organizations, including The Associated Press, objected and were told that the decision was not subject to discussion.
Palin has been criticized for avoiding taking questions from reporters or submitting to one-on-one interviews. She has had just two major interviews since Republican presidential candidate John McCain chose her as his running mate on Aug. 29.
On Wednesday, McCain and Palin were expected to meet jointly with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili and Ukrainian President Viktor Yuschenko. Palin was then to meet separately with Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.


Obviously. Let's do all we can to make sure she doesn't make any mistakes in front of reporters or anything. That might ruin the fact that we just picked a woman for the novelty.

[Archangel]

I know most of what he said can be taken down to this whole athiest thing, but this statement could not be more true. If someone disagrees with this statement, please let me know why.

I never got this either. I mean, here, if you're a PhD or even a full professor, your chances of getting elected go up, not down. Hell, I'm hard pressed to name one president of the federal republic who DIDN'T have a graduate degree.

Honestly, how can you elect someone to have control over a large part of the global economy, several thousand nuclear warheads, and the world's most powerful military based on the fact that "he don't talk like them there college types"?

[Pharon]

I never got this either. I mean, here, if you're a PhD or even a full professor, your chances of getting elected go up, not down. Hell, I'm hard pressed to name one president of the federal republic who DIDN'T have a graduate degree.
The only thing I can think of that might account for this disparity is probably that fewer uneducated people in Europe actually vote.

[Desperado]

Update on Palin's press issue....

Palin press may boycott UN conference
Kenneth P. Vogel 1 hour, 16 minutes ago


NEW YORK – Journalists, displeased with Sarah Palin’s efforts to restrict their access to her, are threatening not to cover her events surrounding the United Nations conference here unless they're allowed more access.

The unfolding boycott is the latest development in a rocky relationship between Palin’s handlers and the press, in which the campaign has sought to tightly control her interactions with the media.
The campaign had originally indicated that the print reporters following her campaign would be among the small group of journalists allowed to attend the so-called “pool sprays” before Palin’s meetings with dignitaries on the sidelines of the U.N. meetings.
The sprays are basically glorified photo opportunities during which journalists can snap photos and film footage and – if they’re lucky – shout a question or two at Palin and her company before she adjourns for private meetings. On Tuesday, those meetings were to include Afghan President Karzai and former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
But the imbroglio began developing Tuesday morning when Palin’s handlers informed the small print press contingent covering her campaign that the print reporter designated to cover the events, Elizabeth Holmes of the Wall Street Journal, would not be allowed to cover the sprays.
The campaign’s reasoning was that there were not going to be questions or statements at the sprays, so they were only appropriate for photographers and cameramen.
The campaign also at first moved to bar CNN, the television network designated for pool duty, from sending its editorial producer – basically a hybrid print/video journalist – though the campaign budged when the network threatened to withhold its cameras as well.
With Palin’s first meeting set to begin at noon, that leaves the print reporters on the outs.
UPDATE: After shutting the print pooler, Holmes, out of the spray before Palin’s meeting with Afghan President Karzai—“rudely,” according to Holmes—the campaign relented and agreed to let her cover the sprays before Palin’s next two meetings, with Colombian President Uribe and Kissinger. Updated story forthcoming.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080923/pl_politico/13783

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Hell, I voted for Bush over Gore in 2000. That wasn't my best decision.

I agree. I was hoping Gore would get in there so someone could plug that hypocritical bastard.

[The Batman]

I just don't get it. I have kept up with this thread and read a lot of the arguments for this lady, but in the end I don't understand how a reasonable human being thinks that this is a good idea. A woman with no real expierence, someone who is not exceptional, and someone who has no international relations expierence in a world that everyday grows more global. She seems like someone who is good at only a small segment of what the job of VP would require. I grant her the benefit of the doubt that she would be a reformer of certain things, but thats just not enough in this day and age. The world and the job of VP is too complicated, problems too immense to allow someone who considers herself a "hockey mom" to tackle issues like the ones that seem to grow with every passing day. I am not saying Obama is much better and I am not arguing for him, I am just arguing against her. And i think it proves a point that her handlers are keeping her away from the eyes of the public by keeping certain questions at bay and keeping the press away from certain events.

[Pharon]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Let's not forget the immortal words of John Nance Garner, who said that the Office of the Vice Presidency is "not worth a bucket of warm piss."

[The Batman]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Let's not forget the immortal words of John Nance Garner, who said that the Office of the Vice Presidency is "not worth a bucket of warm piss."

Yeah, but doesn't Cheney sorta negate that? It used to not be worth a damn, but it seems like Cheney pulled a lot of strings through out that term he had in office, including those oil company meetings which to this day we still don't know what was discussed.

[Pharon]

Yes, but do you seriously see Palin trying (and succeeding) at continuing that kind of power? Over McCain?

Cheney only had influence because Bush is a bumbling idiot who needed him. That wouldn't happen in this case. Even Biden wouldn't exert that kind of leverage.

[The Batman]

Yes, but do you seriously see Palin trying (and succeeding) at continuing that kind of power? Over McCain?

Cheney only had influence because Bush is a bumbling idiot who needed him. That wouldn't happen in this case. Even Biden wouldn't exert that kind of leverage.

Good point, fair point. But, someone like that should not have gotten this far.

[Stax]

Right but this is a different, but still unique case. Bush/Cheney was about an incredibly weak and uninvolved president (in some fields) and an incredibly strong and involved VP. McCain/Palin is about the likelihood of death along with Palin negating any argument McCain ever made about:
1. Experience
2. Country supercedes politics

[Yelram]

I just don't get it. I have kept up with this thread and read a lot of the arguments for this lady, but in the end I don't understand how a reasonable human being thinks that this is a good idea. A woman with no real expierence, someone who is not exceptional, and someone who has no international relations expierence in a world that everyday grows more global. She seems like someone who is good at only a small segment of what the job of VP would require. I grant her the benefit of the doubt that she would be a reformer of certain things, but thats just not enough in this day and age. The world and the job of VP is too complicated, problems too immense to allow someone who considers herself a "hockey mom" to tackle issues like the ones that seem to grow with every passing day. I am not saying Obama is much better and I am not arguing for him, I am just arguing against her. And i think it proves a point that her handlers are keeping her away from the eyes of the public by keeping certain questions at bay and keeping the press away from certain events.

WTF are you talking about? Usually the VP IS the unexperienced one. Obamas the one that has the backasswords ticket.

[Yelram]

Right but this is a different, but still unique case. Bush/Cheney was about an incredibly weak and uninvolved president (in some fields) and an incredibly strong and involved VP. McCain/Palin is about the likelihood of death along with Palin negating any argument McCain ever made about:
1. Experience
2. Country supercedes politics

What the fuck are you guys talking about, where is it that Cheney had some sort of large amount of power over Bush? Thats all a figure of your overactive imagination.

[The Batman]

WTF are you talking about? Usually the VP IS the unexperienced one. Obamas the one that has the backasswords ticket.

See, I knew that you would come in and completely ignore that I tried to remove Obama from this argument by saying that this has NOTHING to do with him. So try again.
And dickface, this is the Palin thread, not the Obama thread.

[Stax]

What the fuck are you guys talking about, where is it that Cheney had some sort of large amount of power over Bush? Thats all a figure of your overactive imagination.

If you don't see the expansions of power of the office of the Vice Presidency under Cheney you are sufficiently naive/blind/etc that I'm surprised your brain keeps your heart beating.

[Yelram]

See, I knew that you would come in and completely ignore that I tried to remove Obama from this argument by saying that this has NOTHING to do with him. So try again.
And dickface, this is the Palin thread, not the Obama thread.

My point had very little to do with Obama, and more to do with the commonplace of a President/Vice president situation. They usually bring on a young fresh face to bring in the youth vote, its just how its normally done. Its not uncommon for a VP to be rather unexperienced, and I find it to be IMPORTANT that that is the case.

[Yelram]

If you don't see the expansions of power of the office of the Vice Presidency under Cheney you are sufficiently naive/blind/etc that I'm surprised your brain keeps your heart beating. If you can name more than 1 I will drive to CT and smoke a blunt with you.

[Desperado]

If you can name more than 1 I will drive to CT and smoke a blunt with you.


Make sure you spell this out for Yelram in crayons, or video.

[The Batman]

WTF are you talking about? Usually the VP IS the unexperienced one. Obamas the one that has the backasswords ticket.

Excuse me? You mentioned it. I don't want Obama in the conversation because all it does is detract from the point. Your right, the VP usually is the less experienced one, but this lady is inept.

[The Batman]

If you can name more than 1 I will drive to CT and smoke a blunt with you.

Shit, Stax if your proving blunts I will come up to CT and smoke with you.

[Yelram]

Excuse me? You mentioned it. I don't want Obama in the conversation because all it does is detract from the point. Your right, the VP usually is the less experienced one, but this lady is inept.

And how do you know she is inept? Is it her 90% approval rating? Or is it your inappropriate use of "your" instead of "you're"?

[Pharon]

Shit, Stax if your proving blunts I will come up to CT and smoke with you.
Stax has no blunts. His mom doesn't allow them in the house.

[The Batman]

And how do you know she is inept? Is it her 90% approval rating? Or is it your inappropriate use of "your" instead of "you're"?

just because people approve of her doesn't mean she would do a good job. Bush had a high approval rating at some point also.

[dadaelus]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Let's not forget the immortal words of John Nance Garner, who said that the Office of the Vice Presidency is "not worth a bucket of warm piss."

My concern is that McCain might trip over said bucket, crack that head, and then it's President Palin. No matter how I feel about McCain a 'President Palin' does not excite me.

[Pharon]

Then you're gay, because she excites the semen right out of me.

[Yelram]

just because people approve of her doesn't mean she would do a good job. Bush had a high approval rating at some point also.
Yeah you're right, the peoples approval has NOTHING to do with how good a REPRESENTATIVE is doing. I guess then by that logic, since Bushes numbers are down, he's a good president by your judgement right? You have nothing on this woman, because you know jack shit about her. You might want to take this line of argumentation to the PHILOSOPHY section, so we can determine whether Palin thinks because she exists, or exists because she thinks.

[dadaelus]

Then you're gay, because she excites the semen right out of me.

Until I see a vid of her doing her porn star imitation I reserve judgment on her ability to excite.

[Genius]

What the fuck are you guys talking about, where is it that Cheney had some sort of large amount of power over Bush? Thats all a figure of your overactive imagination.
Cheney had around three decades of service in the Republican party, under Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and GHWB. Compared to Cheney's 36 years of service, Palin has about 36 minutes. That doesn't translate into practical power, but if you ignore the power flux stemming from additional influence when compared to someone like Al Gore, you're a fool. That being said, I think that Cheney has zero effect on the office of the Vice President in the long term, and that the expansion of the influence coming from the VP ends with him. Palin's additional power comes only from the fact that the man she would succeed is in his early 70s and has a history of (however minor) cancer.

[Pike Bishop]

I just don't get it. I have kept up with this thread and read a lot of the arguments for this lady, but in the end I don't understand how a reasonable human being thinks that this is a good idea. A woman with no real expierence, someone who is not exceptional, and someone who has no international relations expierence in a world that everyday grows more global. She seems like someone who is good at only a small segment of what the job of VP would require. I grant her the benefit of the doubt that she would be a reformer of certain things, but thats just not enough in this day and age. The world and the job of VP is too complicated, problems too immense to allow someone who considers herself a "hockey mom" to tackle issues like the ones that seem to grow with every passing day. I am not saying Obama is much better and I am not arguing for him, I am just arguing against her. And i think it proves a point that her handlers are keeping her away from the eyes of the public by keeping certain questions at bay and keeping the press away from certain events.

Don't worry, even if McCain gets elected and immediately kicks the bucket, that will not represent our present situation getting any worse.

And, uh... please try and make sure that you don't get lazy and neglect to use your apostrophe key, because apparently dumbfucks with nothing else to say will beat up on you for that.

[Genius]

Is it that much to ask to type and spell and punctuate correctly? We aren't fourth graders. Unless you are, then I apologize.

[Da Raider]

Let's relax people. Obama has just as good a chance of being assasinate by some racist as McCain does of dying from old age. Very slim.

[Pike Bishop]

Sorry. In the interest of full disclosure, I am actually a fourth grader.

[Snatch]

Let's relax people. Obama has just as good a chance of being assasinate by some racist as McCain does of dying from old age. Very slim.

At least some motherfuckers have sense.

[VoxAngelikus]

http://i34.tinypic.com/2psf7tu.jpg

I say, is someone breaking my rules in here?

[Stax]

If you can name more than 1 I will drive to CT and smoke a blunt with you.

Cheney wrote the administration's energy policy back in Bush's first term that was basically a giant gift-wrapped present to Halliburton.

His office has become the censors board for information unfriendly to the administration, like the famous EPA reports on the effects of global warming.

He, Rumsfeld, and Wolfowitz were the ones pushing the expansionist view of presidential powers and had been heavy supporters of regime change in Iraq since the mid-90s. Surprise surprise and 3 years into his presidency Bush finds a need for a war that basically no one outside those neo-cons seemed to see a need for (though they certainly did a heck of a job stretching the 'intel' they had to convince people).

Cheney was the primary policy maker for the past 8 years of the Bush administration, not the President of the United States.

Stax has no blunts. His mom doesn't allow them in the house.

HEY! MY MOM SAYS THE BASEMENT IS LIKE MY OWN LITTLE APARTMENT-

I mean... Shut up.

[Rover]

NEW YORK (CNN) – Before heading out for a trio of well-publicized meetings with foreign dignitaries on Tuesday, Sarah Palin received a national security briefing from the Director of National Intelligence, Admiral Michael McConnell, who met with the governor this morning in her New York hotel.
Palin’s top foreign policy adviser informed reporters of the meeting at a small briefing following Palin’s visits with Afghan president Hamid Karzai, Colombian president Alvaro Uribe and former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
The adviser, Stephen Biegun, formerly a senior official on the National Security Council under President Bush, characterized the intelligence briefing as “routine” and said it was the sort of meeting that “is standard for candidates for the vice president and president.” Biegun said several officials were present to brief Palin.
Palin then departed her hotel for a series of motorcade trips around Manhattan, visiting with foreign leaders for the first time in her career.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/23/palin-briefed-by-director-of-national-intelligence/
You know? If she keeps on getting these intelligence briefings, she might actually start to be one of the most qualified people to make decisions about foreign policy.

[Soup Nazi]

You know? If she keeps on getting these intelligence briefings, she might actually start to be one of the most qualified people to make decisions about foreign policy.

An interesting tidbit on that, and I may be wrong, is that the two experienced politicians in the 2 campaigns (McCain/Biden) are the only 2 of the 4 who have not been briefed by McConnell. Since Obama was briefed in May.

[Rover]

Yeah, but McCain/Biden get national intelligence briefings as part of their Senate roles (Biden chairman of Foreign Relations; McCain ranking member Armed Services). They aren't the same briefings, but they do already have access to a lot of national intelligence information.

[Archangel]

You know? If she keeps on getting these intelligence briefings, she might actually start to be one of the most qualified people to make decisions about foreign policy.

That's like saying that I'm qualified to be a starting point guard in the NBA because when I get there, I'll be coached by people like Phil Jackson, Mo Cheeks and Gregg Popovich.

[Desperado]

That's like saying that I'm qualified to be a starting point guard in the NBA because when I get there, I'll be coached by people like Phil Jackson, Mo Cheeks and Gregg Popovich.


Ya but... she can see Russia outside her window and she just got her passport so she can travel!!!!!

[Deadhead Derek]

You know? If she keeps on getting these intelligence briefings, she might actually start to be one of the most qualified people to make decisions about foreign policy.
oh, come on.

[freegood]

You know? If she keeps on getting these intelligence briefings, she might actually start to be one of the most qualified people to make decisions about foreign policy.

If I pour a gallon of milk into a cup, I don't get a gallon of milk.

It's not her lack of experience that bugs me. It's the fact that she's uninformed about the world around her and publicly relishes on her ignorance as if it was a badge of honor. Does she have an open mind to take in all the issues before acting or is she pushing on being a bold Decider?

You guys have steadfastly stuck with Bush and his similar attitude, so I'm not sure I'll convince you of this point.

[Morfin]

It's not her lack of experience that bugs me.

This totally bugs me. It shows the ultimate in disrespect to the United States to even begin to argue that she has any sort of basis for potentially being the Vice-President or President. Are you kidding me: She has never even had a passport until a year ago? Her foreign experience is that she could see Russia?

That McCain would stoop so low as to potentially put the U.S. in this situation, merely to appease the Right and try to court female voters is disgusting and embarrassing. Any rational person would have said, "Thanks, but no thanks, I am not qualified to be a Vice-President" to McCain.

[Smokestack]

You know? If she keeps on getting these intelligence briefings, she might actually start to be one of the most qualified people to make decisions about foreign policy.

This line of thinking is brought to you by the same hypocrites who derided Obama's trip to the Middle East and Europe.

[Rover]

That's like saying that I'm qualified to be a starting point guard in the NBA because when I get there, I'll be coached by people like Phil Jackson, Mo Cheeks and Gregg Popovich.My only point was that the people who have information are in better positions to make decisions than those who don't. It might have been a subtle point.

If I pour a gallon of milk into a cup, I don't get a gallon of milk.

It's not her lack of experience that bugs me. It's the fact that she's uninformed about the world around her and publicly relishes on her ignorance as if it was a badge of honor. Does she have an open mind to take in all the issues before acting or is she pushing on being a bold Decider?

You guys have steadfastly stuck with Bush and his similar attitude, so I'm not sure I'll convince you of this point.How do you know she's uniformed about the world? Because she didn't go backpacking through Europe? Because she didn't expat to Lyon and grow grapes for a decade?

Oh no! She hasn't extensively travelled Europe, how can she possibly understand issues facing Europeans? I mean, it's virtually impossible to find any news from Europe without living and travelling there extensively. How can she understand Israeli-Palestinian problems, if she hasn't lived on a kibbutz for 10 years, undergoing periodic rocket attacks?

Oh no, the VP candidate doesn't have practical foreign policy experience beyond minor issues with Russia and Canada. Meanwhile, John McCain has more foreign policy experience than virutally anyone in the country.

What practical foreign policy experience does Obama have? He hasn't chaired the subcommittee he heads in Foreign Relations because he's been running for President for 3 years. The Left expects me to believe that "Running for President" gives the candidate the experience required.

Bullshit.

[smahoo]

What's most scary about this is the lack of open comment to the issues of the economy that the McCain campaign is allowing from Palin. Clearly she is being shielded from the press to keep her from having to answer impromptu about the issues concerning voters. This is a deliberate tact so that she doesn't put her foot in her mouth prior to the VP debate. A shameful tact orchestrated by the Rovian influence prevailing in the Republican party.

The world should shudder in fear if the McCain-Palin ticket is elected. Neither of them have their finger on the pulse of the American voters or a grasp of the responsibilites America has in today's global environment. Watch carefully when McCain is speaking in front of the cameras. He's always looking down as if he's reading from a script. He doesn't engage his audience. He spews rhetoric as if he were a guy in a bar lying to some chick he's trying to fuck, only its the American public that will be fucked if he's elected.

I have never been so concerned about the future of my country as I am now. The legacy of this generation is doomed to one of a mismanaged government that will force economic hard times on at least 2 or 3 future generations.

Does Obama have all the answers? Admittedly not, but I can't see this country maintaining its economic, diplomatic and military status with John McCain at the healm.

[Desperado]

A little more on Palin and the press

Palin courts cameras, but dodges questions
Kenneth P. Vogel Wed Sep 24, 5:55 AM ET


NEW YORK — For better or for worse, each of the four candidates comprising the Democratic and Republican tickets made headlines Tuesday. But one of them, Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin, did so without uttering a word to the voters or the press.
ADVERTISEMENT

While presidential nominees John McCain and Barack Obama each held press conferences where they addressed the Treasury Department’s $700 billion rescue plan for the financial markets, and Democratic vice presidential nominee Joe Biden continued to make news with his awkward remarks, Palin continued to sidestep the media to an almost unprecedented degree for a national campaign.
Perhaps as a result, Palin’s meetings with foreign leaders Tuesday were nearly marred by stories chronicling her campaign’s brief standoff with reporters over access to her pre-meeting photo ops.

Palin, who has not held a single press conference since McCain announced her as the Republican vice presidential candidate, in the past week has held only one rally on her own, and has ditched her print press contingent to make an ice cream run with her family andto pose for staged photos with foreign leaders.
The shielding-Sarah-Palin strategy — which otherwise allows for lots of photographs and information about her attractive, young family, combined with occasional rallies — has worked well so far for the Alaska governor. She continues to energize the Republican base and draw considerable press attention despite never actually taking reporters'nettlesome questions. But there are increasing signs that the effectiveness of the unusual gambit may be waning.
After dominating the political headlines each week since McCain added her to the GOP ticket, Palin fell behind http://www.journalism.org/node/12900 both McCain and Obama in the percentage of campaign news stories between September 15 and 21 in which she was a significant or the dominant factor, according to the Project for Excellence in Journalism.
The economic meltdown likely had something to do with that. But the policy of keeping Palin under wraps may have also played a role. If nothing else, it has fed an unflattering, emerging positing that her unwillingness to face tough questions is because she is not quite ready for prime-time.
In the latest example of the extreme efforts to keep the press at bay, the campaign Tuesday sought to bar a Wall Street Journal reporter and a CNN producer from the small “pool” of journalists allowed to cover the grip-and-grin photo ops before Palin went into closed-door meetings with foreign dignitaries and international policy experts and advocates.
The reporter and producer were to have represented all the print reporters and television producers, respectively, that followed Palin’s campaign. Their written summaries of the so-called “pool sprays” – events where journalists can snap photos and film footage and possibly shout a question or two — would be fed to other journalists following Palin.
The campaign’s original reasoning in barring the journalists had been that Palin wasn’t going to take questions or make any statements at the sprays, so the sprays were only appropriate for photographers and cameramen.
The campaign eventually reversed its decision to limit the pool, but only after CNN threatened to withhold its camera crew from filming the pool sprays.
Later, the campaign only slightly offset negative coverage of the imbroglio by sending reporters an email promising “a little color for background use from today.” The details – that Palin’s husband Todd took their three youngest children to snap pictures of the Statue of Liberty, to Ground Zero and to F.A.O. Schwartz, where their 7-year old daughter Piper “enjoyed trying on some princess dresses” – were featured far less prominently in most news reports story than the standoff with reporters and descriptions of her thin foreign policy credentials.
The McCain campaign believes Palin has been treated unfairly by the press, but it denies it’s shielding her. Aides assert that her popularity on the campaign trail makes that a better forum for her.

[halfabubbleoff]

Wait, am I seeing people defend Palin's lack of international and foreign policy experience who were bashing Obama for the exact same thing just a short time ago? I saw a lot of the same defenses being used for Obama repeated in the past few posts. It is deja vu all over again!

Seriously (just so I can contribte soemthing other than flame fodder), my problem is that she has not been exposed to the evrionment in D.C. The rules are different there. Things are much more cut-throat and partisain than in the local or state govenrments in Alaska. I would be more worried that she would become a puppet of the party base than that she not know the capital of Luxembourg. She has been on th receiving end of an information dump since she was brought in. The problem there is that it is the information that they want her to have and to repeat. None of it is filtered through her perceptions, beliefs or experience. I dno't agree with her personal views, I admit. I am just very worried that she might be too much of a blank slate for the party base.

[Kerjack]

Wait, am I seeing people defend Palin's lack of international and foreign policy experience who were bashing Obama for the exact same thing just a short time ago? I saw a lot of the same defenses being used for Obama repeated in the past few posts. It is deja vu all over again!

Seriously (just so I can contribte soemthing other than flame fodder), my problem is that she has not been exposed to the evrionment in D.C. The rules are different there. Things are much more cut-throat and partisain than in the local or state govenrments in Alaska. I would be more worried that she would become a puppet of the party base than that she not know the capital of Luxembourg. She has been on th receiving end of an information dump since she was brought in. The problem there is that it is the information that they want her to have and to repeat. None of it is filtered through her perceptions, beliefs or experience. I dno't agree with her personal views, I admit. I am just very worried that she might be too much of a blank slate for the party base.

DO you have experience with either State or local government in Alaska? How about DC? More then she?

Yes, I'm trolling. I really don't give a hoot about this topic, I decided not to vote McCain or Obama a long time ago.

[Desperado]

Anyone else?


Laura Bush says Palin lacks foreign policy experience (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/24/laura-bush-says-palin-lacks-foreign-policy-experience/)
Posted: 01:40 PM ET
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/24/art.lbush.gi.jpg Laura Bush said she has confidence in Palin.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

(CNN) — First Lady Laura Bush told CNN Wednesday Sarah Palin lacks experience in foreign policy, but quickly added the Alaska governor is "a very quick study."
Asked by CNN's Zain Verjee if she thought Palin's resume included sufficient foreign policy experience, Bush said, "Of course she doesn't have that."
"You know, that's not been her role,"

[kareyn01]

My only point was that the people who have information are in better positions to make decisions than those who don't. It might have been a subtle point.

How do you know she's uniformed about the world? Because she didn't go backpacking through Europe? Because she didn't expat to Lyon and grow grapes for a decade?


I'm gonna go with a couple of reasons:

1) She said in 2006 that she didn't really know much about the Iraq War because she had been "too busy".
2) She even uttered the line that seeing Russia from Alaska was a legitimate foreign policy item, which shows how little she actually had to call on.
3) She obviously had no understanding of the Bush Doctrine when asked about it by Charlie Gibson.

[Morfin]

DO you have experience with either State or local government in Alaska? How about DC? More then she?

Exactly. I don't. But I wouldn't deign to be a national candidate for VP or President. The point is not whether we do or not, the point is: Would you vote for someone with the political and foreign policy experience of a GMF poster? If the answer is yes, then Sarah Palin's your gal.

Yes, I'm trolling. I really don't give a hoot about this topic, I decided not to vote McCain or Obama a long time ago.You are going to vote for someone aren't you? To voluntarily decide not to vote would be sad.

[Deadhead Derek]

Format of Biden-Palin Debate Sets No Limit on Subject Matter

By Robert G. Kaiser (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/robert+g.+kaiser/)
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 21, 2008; Page A10

Negotiators for the campaigns of Sens. John McCain (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/) and Barack Obama (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/) agreed yesterday on a format for the Oct. 2 debate between Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Sarah+Palin?tid=informline) and Sen. Joseph R. Biden (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/b000444/) Jr., resolving an issue left open in August after the campaigns settled on the structure of the three presidential debates, according to sources involved in the talks.

Under the plan agreed to yesterday, Palin and Biden will have less time than McCain and Obama to reply to moderators' questions and discuss each other's answers. And there will be no guidelines given to Gwen Ifill (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Gwen+Ifill?tid=informline) of PBS, moderator of the vice presidential debate, as to subject matter, allowing her to mix in questions about foreign and domestic matters, the sources said.
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/hp/img/ad_label_leftjust.gif

Both sides were satisfied with the final agreement, the sources said. The Commission on Presidential Debates, the independent nonprofit organization that manages these quadrennial events, had hoped the campaigns would agree to the same longer segments for the vice presidential aspirants as those adopted in August for the presidential debates.
In the negotiations, Republicans wanted to limit the amount of time available for their neophyte candidate, Palin, to be questioned on a single topic. Democrats, meanwhile, wanted to be sure Biden and Palin spoke from lecterns rather than sitting at a table the way Vice President Cheney (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Dick+Cheney?tid=informline) and his rivals in 2000 (Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/l000304/) of Connecticut) and 2004 (Sen. John Edwards (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/John+Edwards+%28Politician%29?tid=informline) of North Carolina) did. Both sides got what they wanted. Palin and Biden will each have 90 seconds to respond to questions, followed by a two-minute period for discussion between the candidates.
There will be three presidential debates and one vice presidential encounter. The first presidential debate, on Friday, will be devoted to foreign policy and national security. Jim Lehrer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Jim+Lehrer?tid=informline) of PBS will moderate. The second debate, scheduled for Oct. 7, will use a town meeting format with voters in the room and no limitations on subject matter. Tom Brokaw (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Tom+Brokaw?tid=informline) of NBC (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/NBC+Universal+Inc.?tid=informline) will moderate. The third, on Oct. 15, will be devoted to domestic policy and economic issues. Bob Schieffer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Bob+Schieffer?tid=informline) of CBS (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/CBS+Corporation?tid=informline) will be the moderator.
The format for the first and third presidential debates is different than in the past. It will allow for nine separate nine-minute segments, each devoted to a question introduced by the moderator. The candidates will take turns replying to these questions, getting two minutes each. That will be followed by five minutes for further discussion. The moderator is supposed to ensure that each candidate uses a roughly equal amount of time, but this year there are no lights or buzzers to help enforce time limits.
The candidates will be permitted to question each other directly during those five-minute discussion periods, but they may not do so very often, because the campaigns are anxious about letting their candidates appear too aggressive, said sources involved in their preparations.
"We're charting some new territory here," Lehrer said in an interview. "It has the possibility of getting more give and take and more real reactions" from both candidates.
The same possibility will exist in the format agreed to yesterday for the Biden-Palin debate, but there will be less time available for such back and forth on each question. Ifill said Friday that she was satisfied with the five-minute segments.
The Democrats (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+Democratic+Party?tid=informline)' desire to put the vice presidential candidates behind podiums grew out of the 2000 and 2004 vice presidential debates, when the candidates sat close to each other behind the same table. Cheney had the upper hand in both debates, said several Democrats involved in the debate process, in part because the setting made it difficult -- if not impossible -- for Lieberman and Edwards to go after Cheney aggressively. Whether that was because of the setting or because the two Democrats wanted to avoid confrontation is a matter still disputed by participants.

[Kerjack]

Exactly. I don't. But I wouldn't deign to be a national candidate for VP or President. Then how do you know DC politics are more cutthroat?

You are going to vote for someone aren't you? To voluntarily decide not to vote would be sad.

I'll vote.

[The Batman]

My only point was that the people who have information are in better positions to make decisions than those who don't. It might have been a subtle point.

How do you know she's uniformed about the world? Because she didn't go backpacking through Europe? Because she didn't expat to Lyon and grow grapes for a decade?

Oh no! She hasn't extensively travelled Europe, how can she possibly understand issues facing Europeans? I mean, it's virtually impossible to find any news from Europe without living and travelling there extensively. How can she understand Israeli-Palestinian problems, if she hasn't lived on a kibbutz for 10 years, undergoing periodic rocket attacks?

Oh no, the VP candidate doesn't have practical foreign policy experience beyond minor issues with Russia and Canada. Meanwhile, John McCain has more foreign policy experience than virutally anyone in the country.

What practical foreign policy experience does Obama have? He hasn't chaired the subcommittee he heads in Foreign Relations because he's been running for President for 3 years. The Left expects me to believe that "Running for President" gives the candidate the experience required.

Bullshit.

I would say she doesn't know about foreign policy when SHE says that her expierence is because you can see Russia from Alaska.

[Rover]

I'm gonna go with a couple of reasons:

1) She said in 2006 that she didn't really know much about the Iraq War because she had been "too busy".So, state governors should concern themselves with making policy decisions regarding a war that they have no control over? I can see some AK citizens objected to that.

Why is Gov. Palin so concerned with influencing Iraq Policy? She can't control it.2) She even uttered the line that seeing Russia from Alaska was a legitimate foreign policy item, which shows how little she actually had to call on.I think the broader point was that Alaska isn't as isolated from the world at large as the Media/Left would lead you to believe.
3) She obviously had no understanding of the Bush Doctrine when asked about it by Charlie Gibson.She actually answered part of the Bush Doctrine, just not the part that Charlie Gibson wanted her to because he asked a completely open-ended question.

[Morfin]

Then how do you know DC politics are more cutthroat?

I'm not worried about the politics as much as I am about a lack of understanding of the workings of Congress, national issues, and foreign policy. I would never vote for a neophyte or someone who is going to need on-the-job training.

[Deadhead Derek]

rover, are you to dismiss the glaring lack of vetting and credentials that brought Palin to McCain's ticket simply to support a party, rather than hoping for the best of our nation to rise to the call? Do you think that she was the only, the wisest and the best choice for veep the McCain could have made?

[The Batman]

Why is Gov. Palin so concerned with influencing Iraq Policy? She can't control it.I think the broader point was that Alaska isn't as isolated from the world at large as the Media/Left would lead you to believe.

Of course it isn't THAT isolated, but because I live in Texas does that mean I know all about international relations because Mexico is just south of us? No.

[vasili denisov]

My only point was that the people who have information are in better positions to make decisions than those who don't. It might have been a subtle point.

How do you know she's uniformed about the world? Because she didn't go backpacking through Europe? Because she didn't expat to Lyon and grow grapes for a decade?
I think the point you make is that it's simple exposure to information that she lacks, when the flaw, or flaws, are something different and more acute. The qualities wanted in her, and that are obviously lacking, are the ability to absorb information, discern the pertinent ideas, and then examine them in the context of other ideas.

Now, in the area of energy, where she's been presented as an expert and where she's been in a position to absorb a great deal of information connected with that subject, this is what she comes up with:

Of course, it's a fungible commodity and they don't flag, you know, the molecules, where it's going and where it's not. But in the sense of the Congress today, they know that there are very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first. So, I believe that what Congress is going to do, also, is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's Americans who get stuck holding the bag without the energy source that is produced here, pumped here. It's got to flow into our domestic markets first.Now, based on her convention speech, she doesn't say this because she's a bad speaker, but a lousy thinker. It's incoherence doesn't stem from a politician intentionally trying to blur an answer, but someone unable to examine anything clearly.

It's barely able to express a simple idea (domestic consumers would get first priority on domestic oil), why this would be done (presumably, domestic consumers would pay a lower price), doesn't address that such a move is a break with conservative philosophy (principle of free markets), or why such a break might be necessary (inability of consumers to pay for gas). This statement isn't some exceptional faux pas, just about every answer she's been allowed to make carries the same wobbly inability examine critically.

You can acquire such analysis in many ways, whether travel, study, or simple good observation. She's utterly lacking in it.

[freegood]

Anyone else?

Laura Bush needs to shut the fuck up and read me a book.

[Rover]

I'm not worried about the politics as much as I am about a lack of understanding of the workings of Congress, national issues, and foreign policy. I would never vote for a neophyte or someone who is going to need on-the-job training.The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job trainingI'm voting for Obama

rover, are you to dismiss the glaring lack of vetting and credentials that brought Palin to McCain's ticket simply to support a party, rather than hoping for the best of our nation to rise to the call? Do you think that she was the only, the wisest and the best choice for veep the McCain could have made?I don't accept the premise of your argument that Palin wasn't throughly vetted. I don't believe there is only 1 person capable of being vice president, or 1 person capable of being president. The wisest and best choice? If we were truly selecting the wisest and best, why do we select career politicians? We select leaders and decision makers, not the smartest people in the room.
Of course it isn't THAT isolated, but because I live in Texas does that mean I know all about international relations because Mexico is just south of us? No.You also aren't the governor of Texas. And no one is claiming that she's Henry Kissinger, just that she is capable of understanding foreign policy.

I think the point you make is that it's simple exposure to information that she lacks, when the flaw, or flaws, are something different and more acute. The qualities wanted in her, and that are obviously lacking, are the ability to absorb information, discern the pertinent ideas, and then examine them in the context of other ideas.So, after being aware of her existence for 3 weeks you already determined that her decision making process is fundamentally flawed? You must have interviewed her at length? That's a scathing criticism of someone you don't really know anything about, especially her decision making.

Now, in the area of energy, where she's been presented as an expert and where she's been in a position to absorb a great deal of information connected with that subject, this is what she comes up with:

Now, based on her convention speech, she doesn't say this because she's a bad speaker, but a lousy thinker. It's incoherence doesn't stem from a politician intentionally trying to blur an answer, but someone unable to examine anything clearly.

It's barely able to express a simple idea (domestic consumers would get first priority on domestic oil), why this would be done (presumably, domestic consumers would pay a lower price), doesn't address that such a move is a break with conservative philosophy (principle of free markets), or why such a break might be necessary (inability of consumers to pay for gas). This statement isn't some exceptional faux pas, just about every answer she's been allowed to make carries the same wobbly inability examine critically.

You can acquire such analysis in many ways, whether travel, study, or simple good observation. She's utterly lacking in it.As far as your criticism regarding, what I assume is, some aspect of her energy policy, without sounding like an apologist, sometimes you don't express ideas as clearly as you might otherwise. For instance, numerous times during the campaign Obama has made a statement and then a day later made a "clarifying statement", especially with regards to his Israel/Palestine policy, where he completely undermined decades of negotiation by saying he wanted an "undvided Jerusalem." A day later, he claimed he wanted a "divided Jerusalem."

My point being that if you cherry pick statement from politicians you can make them sound like complete morons anytime you want.
...it is just wonderful to be back in Oregon, and over the last 15 months we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in fifty...seven states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii...What does this demonstrate to you? An inability to express an idea clearly (the number of US states) or an inability to do deductive reasoning (if you have one of something left to do, you don't name 2 things)? Based on your criticism of Palin, Obama has shown an ineptitude to grasp basic concepts taught in 2nd grade.

My point of course, is that cherry-picking select quotes from politicians can make them intellectual contemporaries with Lennie. You chose an inarticulate moment from Palin, and I chose an inarticulate moment from Obama. I could have chosen just as many actual policy statements from Obama, but I really like the 57 states quote. As a further example, Joe Biden earlier this week, claimed that FDR was at the helm for the 1929 stock market crash and went on TV to reassure the nation, which would be fine, if any of it were true.

So, which is worse? I happen to think misstatements are expected to happen, these people talk for a living. At least give Palin a debate before you call her barely capable of cognitive thought.

[The Batman]

You also aren't the governor of Texas. And no one is claiming that she's Henry Kissinger, just that she is capable of understanding foreign policy.

I didn't say she isn't capable of understanding foreign policy, but when asked about her expierence to show some background, she said "because Russia is close by I have expierence." By that rational the Texas govenor has more international relations expierence because we are CLOSER to mexico than Alaska is to Russia and we have TONS of Mexicans here. She should admit that she has none but that she is willing to learn and that she is capable. Don't BS about it.

[Smokestack]

So, state governors should concern themselves with making policy decisions regarding a war that they have no control over? I can see some AK citizens objected to that.

Why is Gov. Palin so concerned with influencing Iraq Policy? She can't control it.

It's not that she's "so concerned" but that she was unconcerned. Here you go claiming earlier that she was indeed fully vetted for VP but, if that was the case, still didn't take the time to brush up on the big foreign policy issue of our time? Even her son is going to Iraq. Her lack of curiosity is pretty galling for someone who is being positioned as qualified for national office.

I think the broader point was that Alaska isn't as isolated from the world at large as the Media/Left would lead you to believe.

Fucking media/left, up to their shenanigans again ,not respecting women, Alaskans, gunlovers, (fill in the blank), etc.

She actually answered part of the Bush Doctrine, just not the part that Charlie Gibson wanted her to because he asked a completely open-ended question.

"In what regard, Charlie?" is not answering part of his question. It was an open-ended question and she had no idea what to do with it. As we've gone over in these pages, the Bush Doctrine has several definitions and interpretations and she had free reign to answer the question in any way she wanted. Gibson didn't "want" her to answer in a certain way, he wanted her to answer the question. Her initial response exposed that she didn't really know what it was. It's not too hard to figure out from watching the interview. And it wasn't a gotcha question...she merely turned it into one.

[Genius]

Question Rover: If all of the criticisms of Palin that have been leveled by the media/left are unfounded and in some cases actually positives, then what are her weaknesses? Because though you said you didn't want to come off as a Palin apologist, that's exactly what you sound like. If the woman had no weaknesses, she'd be the nominee for President. As an unabashed Obama supporter from even before he knew he'd run, I realize and admit that my candidate(s) have weaknesses. Sarah Palin does, too.

[Rover]

I didn't say she isn't capable of understanding foreign policy, but when asked about her expierence to show some background, she said "because Russia is close by I have expierence." By that rational the Texas govenor has more international relations expierence because we are CLOSER to mexico than Alaska is to Russia and we have TONS of Mexicans here. She should admit that she has none but that she is willing to learn and that she is capable. Don't BS about it.*experience
*governor
And the Texas governor does have to deal with Mexico. I think any border state governor has some legitimate foreign policy experience. Much more than say, a governor of a landlocked state, like, maybe, Arkansas. You (and others) are trying to paint this as "all or nothing." I'm not saying she has "lots" of experience, just that she has some. And some is better than none.

It's not that she's "so concerned" but that she was unconcerned. Here you go claiming earlier that she was indeed fully vetted for VP but, if that was the case, still didn't take the time to brush up on the big foreign policy issue of our time? Even her son is going to Iraq. Her lack of curiosity is pretty galling for someone who is being positioned as qualified for national office.She's simply giving the standard politician reply, "I'm only concerned with what's going on in my state," They all do it. And to suggest the mother of a soldier in Iraq is unconcerned with Iraq policy is stupid. There are hundreds of thousands of mothers all across the country, who became very aware of all policies concerned Iraq.

Fucking media/left, up to their shenanigans again ,not respecting women, Alaskans, gunlovers, (fill in the blank), etc.No argument from me.

"In what regard, Charlie?" is not answering part of his question. It was an open-ended question and she had no idea what to do with it. As we've gone over in these pages, the Bush Doctrine has several definitions and interpretations and she had free reign to answer the question in any way she wanted. Gibson didn't "want" her to answer in a certain way, he wanted her to answer the question. Her initial response exposed that she didn't really know what it was. It's not too hard to figure out from watching the interview. And it wasn't a gotcha question...she merely turned it into one.Gibson did want her to answer in a specific way. Otherwise he wouldn't have tried to portray the "preemptive war" as the be all, end all "Bush Doctrine."

It was open-ended and she asked for clarification. Could it be that she was concerned with wanting to understand the question? Was that intellectual curiousity? Was that nuance?

No! You want her to bust right in with guns blazing, throwing out whatever answer first pops into her brain. She can't possibly ask for clarification on a question. She needs to answer immediately. If she can't respond in .0001 seconds she's an intellectual lightweight.

[The Batman]

*experience
*governor
And the Texas governor does have to deal with Mexico. I think any border state governor has some legitimate foreign policy experience. Much more than say, a governor of a landlocked state, like, maybe, Arkansas. You (and others) are trying to paint this as "all or nothing." I'm not saying she has "lots" of experience, just that she has some. And some is better than none.

I really wish IE had a spell check the way Firefox does.
So, give me an example of some and I will concede.

[VoxAngelikus]

Can someone just come out and say it? Because you know there's a lot of people thinking it.

Sarah Palin is a cunt. A hyper-religious, dirty little cunt.

And you know what? I don't want her piggy little hands anywhere near the presidency. 2nd in command is too close for comfort for me. Fuck her, fuck her pregnant kid and fuck her retarded kid, too.

And anyone else that thinks she's great, and John McCain made a real "bold choice"!:

You're a fucking idiot. Dumber than the dirt you'll be buried in.

I'm sorry. I realize this doesn't help the thread.

[Rover]

Question Rover: If all of the criticisms of Palin that have been leveled by the media/left are unfounded and in some cases actually positives, then what are her weaknesses? Because though you said you didn't want to come off as a Palin apologist, that's exactly what you sound like. If the woman had no weaknesses, she'd be the nominee for President. As an unabashed Obama supporter from even before he knew he'd run, I realize and admit that my candidate(s) have weaknesses. Sarah Palin does, too.Not all the criticisms are unfounded. But most of the criticisms are extreme. And I mean extreme. To claim that she isn't the mother of her youngest child and that's it's all some elaborate coverup, is quite possibly the most disgusting thing I've seen the Media do. So when you start with that as the baseline for criticism of Palin, that's a very steep hill for the Media to climb out of.

To claim that she's a religious zealot, when there is no proof, either in her mayorship or governorship. They've played a video over and over and over as some kind of evidence that she's a religious lunatic, when in fact, praying for "God's will" and "God's plan" is something that is quite common, especially among Presidents.

To claim that she's inept at foreign policy, when she hasn't even had to make a "real" foreign policy decision, is baseless.

The problem I see with criticism of Palin is that it's all extreme. Everyone on the Left and the Media set their criticism amp to 11 and let loose. There is no middle ground with the criticism. And that's the problem.

Where do I see areas of legitimate concern? Everywhere that's already been brought up, but I don't see it as:

OMFG, she's a religious nutcase, she's going to ban books and start a Holy War.

OMFG, she's only been a mayor. LOL how can she be president?

She's never met a foreign leader!!111121!1 How can she make a foreign policy decision, she's never even had a passport.
These are all criticisms that have been leveled by the Mainstream Media, and almost using these exact lines of thought.

I think her lack of governor experience is concerning, but at the same time I think there is at least a platform to build off of. It's not like they pulled in some guy, who was washing my windshield on the corner last week, to be VP.

Her lack of foreign policy knowledge can be a concern, but she's not expected to be a leading force in foreign relations philosophy. Obviously, her inexperience is her biggest area of weakness. I'm slightly concerned that her lack of Washington experience would be a hinderance to any "reform" that the VP might be tasked with. Tackling the good ol' boy network of Alaska is slightly easier than the Washignton establishment.

As an example, she might have cleaned up the Alaskan State Republican party, but Don Young and Ted Stevens still have a better than average shot of going back to Washington. So Alaska state politics might be cleaned up, but Alaskan-DC politics are still as corrupt as ever.

But another thing about this Palin criticism that really bothers me is that whenever Obama gets legitimate criticism on his "inexperience," his supporters will say, "He's been running for President for 19 months," as though "running for President" is the supreme qualification. If that's the case, Palin should be up to speed on that qualification by the time election day rolls around.

EDIT: See Vox's post for example of extreme. And it isn't just internet extreme, with that kind of statement, Vox could easily be a pundit on MSNBC or CNN. Hell, he might even write Op-ed for the NYT.

[Rover]

I really wish IE had a spell check the way Firefox does.
So, give me an example of some and I will concede.I don't have time to dig through her governorship to find example of where she interacted with a foreign government. If it isn't enough for you to accept that she might, possibly, have interacted with a foreign government, as the governor of a state that doesn't border any other US state, I don't know what I could provide you with to change your mind.

She visited troops in Kuwait and Germany. Her state borders more foreign countries than it does other US states. I don't know, maybe she lived in complete isolation from the world at large. Alaska is in the middle of BFE, so I guess it's possible.

Prove to me that she hasn't interacted with foreign governments. Also, the Constitution clearly states that foreign policy is the prerogative of the Federal Government, so I'm not sure how much foreign policy experience she could legitimately get.

[Yelram]

Everyone of you who calls Palin too "unexperienced" to be VP, and are planning on voting for Obama are fucking straight out hypocrites. Theres no other way to cut it. You want to have it both ways. You want to vote for a man who claims to be "outside" of Washington, and yet ties himself to Joe Biden. And then try to point out Palin's lack of experience when she has done nothing but good things as Governor. SHE HAS A 90% APPROVAL RATING. Last time I checked congresses was something under 20%.

ROVER: She brokered a deal with the canadians to build a giant gas pipeline right through canada.

In March 2007, Palin put forward an Alaska Gasline Inducement Act (AGIA) to encourage building a natural gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas) pipeline from the state's North Slope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_North_Slope).[80] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-AGIA-unveil-79) In January 2008, Palin announced that TransCanada Corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransCanada_Corporation) was the sole AGIA-compliant applicant.[81] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-ref3-80)[82] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin#cite_note-ktuu1-81) In August 2008, Palin signed a bill awarding TransCanada Pipelines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransCanada_Pipelines) $500 million in seed money and a license to build and operate the $26 billion pipeline to transport gas from the North Slope to the Lower 48 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_48) through Canada.

But i'm sure she didnt have to like talk to people, or anything difficult like that. Thats less than two years from start to finish, talk about efficient. I was against this nominee, until I started reading about her.

[Smokestack]

She's simply giving the standard politician reply, "I'm only concerned with what's going on in my state," They all do it. And to suggest the mother of a soldier in Iraq is unconcerned with Iraq policy is stupid. There are hundreds of thousands of mothers all across the country, who became very aware of all policies concerned Iraq.

Classy...make it about the mothers. However you slice it, the point is that not only has she shown a remarkable lack of foreign policy curiosity for someone running for national office but that McCain campaign has gone to great lengths to shield her inadequacies from the press and public.

Gibson did want her to answer in a specific way. Otherwise he wouldn't have tried to portray the "preemptive war" as the be all, end all "Bush Doctrine."

It was open-ended and she asked for clarification. Could it be that she was concerned with wanting to understand the question? Was that intellectual curiousity? Was that nuance?

No! You want her to bust right in with guns blazing, throwing out whatever answer first pops into her brain. She can't possibly ask for clarification on a question. She needs to answer immediately. If she can't respond in .0001 seconds she's an intellectual lightweight.

Here's what Gibson initially asked: "Do you agree with the Bush doctrine?" How you can possibly glean what he wanted her to answer from that is pretty amazing. It was her asking for clarification of the question that led towards Gibson's interpretation of it. And your little charade about her answering right away with guns blazing is a really feeble misdirection on your part.

As yesterday proved, not only is this candidate in foreign policy training but the McCain campaign is only willing for a superficial view of that training to be made public. It's absolutely astonishing...they even lost Campbell Brown's respect over it (and she's married to Dan Senor):

"Tonight I call on the McCain campaign to stop treating Sarah Palin like she is a delicate flower that will wilt at any moment," said Brown. "This woman is from Alaska for crying out loud. She is strong. She is tough. She is confident. And you claim she is ready to be one heart beat away form the presidency. If that is the case, then end this chauvinistic treatment of her now. Allow her to show her stuff. Allow her to face down those pesky reporters... Let her have a real news conference with real questions. By treating Sarah Palin different from the other candidates in this race, you are not showing her the respect she deserves. Free Sarah Palin. Free her from the chauvinistic chain you are binding her with. Sexism in this campaign must come to an end. Sarah Palin has just as much a right to be a real candidate in this race as the men do. So let her act like one."

Making excuses for this is just ridonkulous.

[Kilgore]

Everyone of you who calls Palin too "unexperienced" to be VP, and are planning on voting for Obama are fucking straight out hypocrites. Theres no other way to cut it. You want to have it both ways. You want to vote for a man who claims to be "outside" of Washington, and yet ties himself to Joe Biden. And then try to point out Palin's lack of experience when she has done nothing but good things as Governor. SHE HAS A 90% APPROVAL RATING. Last time I checked congresses was something under 20%.
How is calling her "unexperienced" and comparing it to a man that is inside or outside of Washington regardless of whom he ties himself to hypocritical? Being a experienced and unexperienced has nothing to do with being inside or out.

Apples and Oranges, Apples and Oranges.

[Yelram]

Classy...make it about the mothers. However you slice it, the point is that not only has she shown a remarkable lack of foreign policy curiosity for someone running for national office but that McCain campaign has gone to great lengths to shield her inadequacies from the press and public.

So when she totally pwns Biden in the debates, what are you going to say then?

[Yelram]

How is calling her "unexperienced" and comparing it too a man that is inside or outside of Washington regardless of whom he ties himself to hypocritical? Being a experienced and unexperienced has nothing to do with being inside or out.

Apples and Oranges, Apples and Oranges.

I didnt state the obvious, because I assumed anyone voting for Barack realizes he has just as little experience as Palin does, only HE'S RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT NOT VP!!! Get it? Or should I draw you a little picture with captions so you can understand better?

[Kilgore]

Picture Please!

If it was so obvious and your point, why didn't you just say that rather then side track it with some inside and out mumbo jumbo.

You are still a dipshit, nice to see something never change.

[The Batman]

So when she totally pwns Biden in the debates, what are you going to say then?

If she wins the debate against Biden I will never EVER say a negative thing about you or her again.

[Genius]

Everyone of you who calls Palin too "unexperienced" to be VP, and are planning on voting for Obama are fucking straight out hypocrites. Theres no other way to cut it. You want to have it both ways. You want to vote for a man who claims to be "outside" of Washington, and yet ties himself to Joe Biden. And then try to point out Palin's lack of experience when she has done nothing but good things as Governor. SHE HAS A 90% APPROVAL RATING. Last time I checked congresses was something under 20%.

Don't fucking try to turn this on us. All we've heard for eight months now, first from the Clinton campaing, then from the McCain campaign, is that Obama's lack of experience will prevent him from being effective when it comes to foreign policy. Then the McCain campaign nominates someone who has essentially zero foreign policy experience. THAT is hypocritical.

[Pharon]

I think there's plenty of hypocrisy to go around on both sides here.

What a surprise, too.

[smahoo]

Amazing that this neophite Palin can drum up this many responses....

She isn't in the same league as Obama, Biden or even McCain for that matter. Her selection was an attempt to pander to the disenfranchised Hillary voters. Plain and simple. Any McCain campaign representative that denies it is an outright liar.

I would, however, like to see her and Cindy in some girl on girl action.

[Pharon]

If they were trying to get disenfranchised Hillary voters with the Palin pick than I really fear for their incompetence, because she will get none of them.

Palin was FAR more a pick to satisfy the far right, and to liven up the campaign with some youth to balance out the Obama effect, than anything else.

[dadaelus]

Point Counter Point from The Onion
http://www.theonion.com/content/point/point_counterpoint_gov_palin_has


Point:
Gov. Palin Has No Foreign Policy Experience, Refuses To Acknowledge Global Warming, And Supports The War In Iraq
By Roger Hobaugh, Concerned Citizen



There may be no better word to describe John McCain's vice presidential pick than "ridiculous."

After months of criticizing Sen. Obama for his inexperience with foreign policy, McCain has chosen quite possibly the least experienced woman in politics to serve as his second-in-command. How little experience does Palin have, you ask? She was a part-time mayor of a tiny Alaska town and then governor of one of the least populous states in the union for less than two years. Palin has never met with any foreign leaders of any kind—in fact, she only applied for a U.S. passport last year!

In this time of international turmoil, how could McCain, a man who would become the oldest candidate ever elected, select a novice like Palin knowing she would be one heartbeat away from having to step into the presidency and protect our nation? The mere notion that Palin is even remotely equipped to manage the ongoing war on terror is an out-and-out fantasy dreamt up by the Republican party to disguise why they really selected her: to attract female and evangelical voters in a desperate attempt to win the election at any cost—even if it means sacrificing our nation's security.

McCain has chosen for his running mate a woman who is so set in the past that she supports abstinence-only education despite its failure among her own children; a woman who claims she is not convinced that global warming is a serious issue. Palin has time and again supported needless and ecologically destructive drilling in Alaska's wildlife reserves—drilling that McCain himself is ardently opposed to—yet offers no plan for the very real and proven threat of climate change, despite the danger it poses to her home state.

Perhaps the most frightening prospect of putting Palin in the White House is her continued support of the failing war in Iraq—a war she called "a task that is from God." Electing Sarah Palin and John McCain in November will no doubt prolong this costly and unwinnable conflict, which every day claims the lives of more American troops and sinks our country further into debt.

Palin is not a bold new choice for America. I have no doubt she will provide the same type of irresponsible and flat-out dangerous leadership we've seen from President Bush for the past eight years. That is, if she provides any leadership at all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Counterpoint: Please Keep Your Voice Down, My Poor Retarded Child Is Sleeping
By Gov. Sarah Palin, Republican Vice Presidential Nominee


Shhhh!

Could you please stop tearing apart my record so loudly? I just put my special needs child down for a nap. You remember my poor, Down syndrome baby, don't you? The developmentally disabled child I carried to term despite knowing that he had special needs? The child who would be helpless without my constant care and attention? Well, he's just nodded off, and if you continue to provide such damning evidence of my inexperience in both foreign and domestic policy, you'll wake him.

You wouldn't want him to start crying, would you?

It's very rude of you to keep pointing out the myriad reasons I am unfit to be the governor of Alaska, much less vice president of the United States of America, when you know my Down syndrome–afflicted son is trying to get some much-needed rest. If you wanted to question my qualifications as a leader, you should have thought of that sooner, like, say, before I gave birth to a retarded child who would probably starve to death if I weren't so selflessly and courageously dedicated to him.

Actually, he'll probably be sleeping for a while, so maybe it would be best if you came back later. Perhaps this afternoon, or in a couple of months. It's just that he gets so tired having to struggle with even the simplest tasks that you and I take for granted. Because my special needs son has Down syndrome, you see. My child has Down syndrome. And, as the mother of a baby with Down syndrome, I would appreciate it if you stopped bringing up my nonexistent energy plan while he sleeps there, like an angel.

My beautiful, special needs angel.

I assure you, I have every intention of responding to your claims. Sarah Palin does not run from a challenge. Like the challenge of raising a child with Down syndrome. That's what I've been doing for five months now, and let me tell you, it is hard work. But I wouldn't trade a moment of it for anything in the world, not even for more time to respond to the gaping holes you've just punched in my candidacy. Did I mention he has Down syndrome?

Now, if you'll please back away quietly without saying anything else—especially about my recent comments regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and how they illustrate my complete lack of even a basic understanding of our economy—I'll forget this whole thing ever happened.

And so will my vote-stealing retard baby.

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

She isn't in the same league as Obama. His selection was an attempt to pander to the poor, black voters. Plain and simple. Any fucked-up liberal POS that denies it is an outright liar.

[Yelram]

Don't fucking try to turn this on us. All we've heard for eight months now, first from the Clinton campaing, then from the McCain campaign, is that Obama's lack of experience will prevent him from being effective when it comes to foreign policy. Then the McCain campaign nominates someone who has essentially zero foreign policy experience. THAT is hypocritical.

Oh god, why do I even bother with people as dense as you. MCCAIN HAS FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE, why does he have to pick a VP that does? And how can you rationalize Obamas LACK OF EXPERIENCE, by the VP(Do I need to underline VP) pick of the opposing party?

[VoxAngelikus]

You know what guys.... All of this is moot:

We're in an economic crisis here in America. Let's just cancel all the debates!

[Mustard]

Vox = Genius

[dadaelus]

Oh god, why do I even bother with people as dense as you. MCCAIN HAS FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE, why does he have to pick a VP that does? And how can you rationalize Obamas LACK OF EXPERIENCE, by the VP(Do I need to underline VP) pick of the opposing party?

So you are Ok with a balance of skills across a ticket?

[Genius]

Vox = Genius
I'll take that as a compliment.

[Mustard]

I'll take that as a compliment.
Why do I keep falling into this trap?

[Genius]

Oh god, why do I even bother with people as dense as you. MCCAIN HAS FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE, why does he have to pick a VP that does? And how can you rationalize Obamas LACK OF EXPERIENCE, by the VP(Do I need to underline VP) pick of the opposing party?
Simple. You can't make an issue the cornerstone argument of your campaign, then do something that completely contradicts it. You look foolish. How can you not see that? And how can you not see that that would immediately lead to attacks on Palin's experience, after we've heard ad naseum that extensive experience is required? I don't care about semantics. The choice was stupid, the novelty has already worn off, it will cost McCain the small chance he had at winning, and the argument I just made will play a large part in that.

[Deadhead Derek]

You know what guys.... All of this is moot:

We're in an economic crisis here in America. Let's just cancel all the debates!
we might need to think about delaying the elections as well, the house and senate might be too busy..

[Pharon]

Why not just keep Bush in office for a third term?

If it ain't broke don't fix it, I always say.

[Deadhead Derek]

House and Senate are meeting , talking about banking and such... mabye a rider on the bill repealing the 25th amendment? just spit balling here...

[VoxAngelikus]

The October Surprise?

[Soup Nazi]

Prove to me that she hasn't interacted with foreign governments. Also, the Constitution clearly states that foreign policy is the prerogative of the Federal Government, so I'm not sure how much foreign policy experience she could legitimately get.

Isn't that the point though? Maybe I am arguing a different point then everyone else here, but doesn't that kinda prove that she has/had no experience in foreign affairs? She was unable to, since international policy is usually left to the federal government, not border state governments.

I'm not one who is rallying against her for her lack of foreign policy experience, I just thought it was awfully pathetic for the Palin camp and her supporters to imply that she had foreign policy experience because Alaska is situated between Russia and Canada. When in reality, her title as Governor does not constitute dealings with foreign governments.

[Okie Medicvet]

The October Surprise?

It would be one helluva shocker...okay, quick, someone put a pic up of someone doing the shocker!

[Smokestack]

She's a joke:

Vbg6hF0nShQ

[Desperado]

She's a joke:

Vbg6hF0nShQ

wow...

[nuclearjew]

She is going to get killed in the debates.

[Mustard]

It would be great if she was getting grilled by Biden, and she says, "I'm not sure about that, but let me find out and get back to you when I do".

Biden's like... "Uhm, wtf?"

[The Batman]

She's a joke:

Vbg6hF0nShQ

This is the part where Yerlam comes in and says what a wonderful job she did in that interview, how confident she sounded, and why she is the best choice the republican party has at winning this election.

[Rover]

It would be great if she was getting grilled by Biden, and she says, "I'm not sure about that, but let me find out and get back to you when I do".

Biden's like... "Uhm, wtf?"Oh no, instead of making something up, or talking out of her ass (like some VP picks I know), she says she'll get back to Couric. Stop the motherfucking presses, Sarah Palin doesn't know everything that John McCain has accomplished in his legislative career. God, I feel so stupid for supporting her. How can she ever possibly make a decision without knowing what pieces of legislation John McCain has introduced in Congress?

I can only hope that Obama gets asked, "Give me examples of reform legislation that Joe Biden has introduced in Congress." I'd prefer to ask that question of Joe Biden, but Obama doesn't exactly have any legislation to talk about.

Did her answer to the question suck? Yes. Does it matter? No. Why am I going to care about whether Palin knows McCain's legislative record. She doesn't give great interviews because she doesn't talk in soundbytes. But George Bush speaks in great soundbytes, so take that for what it's worth.

[freegood]

Of course, it's a fungible commodity and they don't flag, you know, the molecules, where it's going and where it's not. But in the sense of the Congress today, they know that there are very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first. So, I believe that what Congress is going to do, also, is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's Americans who get stuck holding the bag without the energy source that is produced here, pumped here. It's got to flow into our domestic markets first.

A lot of ass talking out of right there.

[Rover]

No, uh, worse, than, um, you know, ah, Obama.

[Axel]

She's a joke:

Vbg6hF0nShQShe seems like a moose in headlights.

Does anyone else get the sense that she believes Fannie and Freddie are real people?

[vasili denisov]

She doesn't give great interviews because she doesn't talk in soundbytes. But George Bush speaks in great soundbytes, so take that for what it's worth.
Hmmmmmmmmmm...no.

FD7BDP3XMG0

Also, I came across this after seeing it a billion years ago. Has nothing to do with the election but made me laugh my ass off again.

q27mdvdwOpw

[Archangel]

If Mrs Palin wasn't a reasonably attractive woman, the entire world would call her what she is.


A bloody hick.

[heelsguy]

yeah...all that experience Biden has really shows!

Glrnb_G34E4

FDR??? TELEVISION? in 1929??

I think those hairplugs have grown into his brain



and about his guns...go to the 8:50 mark

uL4Vqeegewo

[Blue]

Burn her, she's a witch. (http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/09/25/1909036-palin-once-blessed-to-be-free-from-witchcraft)

[Axel]

Sounds familiar?

Q: According to a lot of feminists’ groups, beauty pageants are dumb and sexist. What do you think?

A: "I think it’s not because in a beauty pageant it shows that you have beauty plus you got brains. It doesn’t mean that it's like discriminating or something, it's more along you socializing with other girls and you build that foundation to, to.. have a better community. So that's it."

[kid_vidrio]

"I think it’s not because in a beauty pageant it shows that you have beauty plus you got brains. It doesn’t mean that it's like discriminatin' or somethin', it's more along you socializin' with other girls and you build that foundation to, to.. have a better community. So that's it."
A quick fix of the transcription. You know, so you got accuracy.

[vasili denisov]

lj3iNxZ8Dww

[Pharon]

If Mrs Palin wasn't a reasonably attractive woman, the entire world would call her what she is.

A bloody hick.
The entire world doesn't use the word "bloody."

That's just the Eurofags.

[Desperado]

Updated link....


[/URL]

September 25, 2008
[URL="http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/25/mccain-camp-to-propose-postponing-vp-debate-2/"]McCain camp to propose postponing VP debate (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/)
Posted: 08:58 AM ET

From CNN Correspondent Dana Bash (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-correspondent-dana-bash/)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/25/art.debate2.gi.jpg Biden and Palin are set to debate October 2.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

(CNN) — McCain supporter Sen. Lindsey Graham tells CNN the McCain campaign is proposing to the Presidential Debate Commission and the Obama camp that if there's no bailout deal by Friday, the first presidential debate should take the place of the VP debate, currently scheduled for next Thursday, October 2 in St. Louis.
In this scenario, the vice presidential debate between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin would be rescheduled for a date yet to be determined, and take place in Oxford, Mississippi, currently slated to be the site of the first presidential faceoff this Friday.
Graham says the McCain camp is well aware of the position of the Obama campaign and the debate commission that the debate should go on as planned — but both he and another senior McCain adviser insist the Republican nominee will not go to the debate Friday if there's no deal on the bailout.

Filed under: John McCain (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/category/presidential-candidates/john-mccain/)

[Smokestack]

Oh no, instead of making something up, or talking out of her ass (like some VP picks I know), she says she'll get back to Couric. Stop the motherfucking presses, Sarah Palin doesn't know everything that John McCain has accomplished in his legislative career. God, I feel so stupid for supporting her. How can she ever possibly make a decision without knowing what pieces of legislation John McCain has introduced in Congress?

I can only hope that Obama gets asked, "Give me examples of reform legislation that Joe Biden has introduced in Congress." I'd prefer to ask that question of Joe Biden, but Obama doesn't exactly have any legislation to talk about.

Did her answer to the question suck? Yes. Does it matter? No. Why am I going to care about whether Palin knows McCain's legislative record. She doesn't give great interviews because she doesn't talk in soundbytes. But George Bush speaks in great soundbytes, so take that for what it's worth.

I think you make a fair point. Can she not name McCain's regulatory record because she just doesn't know, McCain has been consistently anti-regulation or that she hasn't memorized McCain's record. All could be the case and it was certainly more of a gotcha question than anything Gibson asked her. Her other answers were what disturbed me about the interview. The "moose in the headlights" analogy has been used as a joke, but it really is true. What are these nonsensical answers she gives? What does this mean: “Not necessarily this, as it’s been proposed, has to pass or we’re gonna find ourselves in another Great Depression. But there has to be action taken, bipartisan effort — Congress not pointing fingers at this point at ... one another, but finding the solution to this, taking action and being serious about the reforms on Wall Street that are needed.”

It really is frightening.

[The Batman]

I agree, its a fair point. At my job they tell me don't pretend to know. Either find the answer, find someone who knows the answer or get back to the person later. But all of her answers are pretty awful and seem like someone who has no business answering them.

[Morfin]

Fair or unfair, the impression or image can be strong.

All of you youngsters can harken (yes, harken) back to 1960 when Richard Nixon, Eisenhower's two-term VP was running for President against Kennedy. Nixon's theme was that he had a lot of experience and had been right at Eisenhower's side, at Cabinet meetings, etc. and had that experience.

A reporter asked Eisenhower to name one good idea or contribution he had made in a Cabinet meeting. Eisenhower stuttered and then said he could not think of one, "but give me a week..."

The question was a gotcha question and, given that Eisenhower had had a stroke, was not exactly fair. Nonetheless, the impression was a strong one and went a good ways to wound Nixon's chances.

Here, Couric's question was the same type and with the intent to see her stumble. With our current glut of news and videos -- which was not present in 1960 -- Palin's gaffe will be of little or no consequence -- other than to pile on in terms of her inexperience and lack of knowledge.