2008 Election - Offseason

[Mustard]

Barry is Obama's real name.

I shall now use a classic 1980s movie demonstrate my feelings about his name change.

nevermind, can't find the clip...shit
Huh? I've never heard that. Is there proof?

Or is this another Federal Farmer moment?

[BIG PIZZLE]

The US is flawed? I suppose Canada and Syria are damn near perfect.

Do not misunderstand, I am not suggesting the US is perfect...far from it.

See that's just the type of retard mentality I'm talking about. I criticize the US and then you say something like that which has nothing to do with anything. I never said that Canada and Syria (wtf?) are perfect and whether or not they are does nothing to vitiate my initial statement or the fact that you are a moron. It's like me saying Bush is a liar and then you saying "well at least he didnt get his dick sucked in the oval office." One has nothing to do with the other.

[Claydon]

See that's just the type of retard mentality I'm talking about. I criticize the US and then you say something like that which has nothing to do with anything. I never said that Canada and Syria (wtf?) are perfect and whether or not they are does nothing to vitiate my initial statement or the fact that you are a moron. It's like me saying Bush is a liar and then you saying "well at least he didnt get his dick sucked in the oval office." One has nothing to do with the other.

I am a moron because I agreed with you that the US has faults?

bravo on your ability to argue bravo. remind me not to retain you for litigation.

[BIG PIZZLE]

No, you're a moron because you make non sequitur arguments. Remind me not to call you the next time I need someone to fix my photocopier.

[Claydon]

No, you're a moron because you make non sequitur arguments. Remind me not to call you the next time I need someone to fix my photocopier.

Good call on that sparky, since I do not have clue one about photo copiers.

[kid_vidrio]

I am a moron because I agreed with you that the US has faults?


Claydon, you are a moron because you are a moron. No mystery The multiple examples can be dissected and examined in many forms but in the end, they just support the truth in their myriad ways.

[Claydon]

Claydon, you are a moron because you are a moron. No mystery The multiple examples can be dissected and examined in many forms but in the end, they just support the truth in their myriad ways.

Typical of the left...

"they do not agree with me shall forever be deemed lost"

you would do well in the hollywood crowd.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Good call on that sparky, since I do not have clue one about photo copiers.

Exactly.

[freegood]

Count me in the Claydon is a moron crowd.

There's other conservatives I like in here but disagree with a lot, but there's one thing I certainly agree with...

[kareyn01]

This might be a good reason why McCain won't say Ayers's name, and only makes obvious inferences. Looks like McCain has some "terrorist" skeletons in his closet as well. Why won't he come forward and be totally honest with the American people? (sarcasm):

As a freshman congressman in the early 1980s, John McCain did not disclose his connections to a controversial group that was implicated in a secretive plot to supply arms to Nicaraguan militia groups during the Iran-Contra affair.
McCain did not list his service on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom on mandatory congressional disclosure forms asking about positions he held outside government.
McCain’s aides said he wasn’t required to report the affiliation.
...
A review of the personal financial disclosure forms McCain filed after his election to the U.S. House in 1982 show that he did not list the group in the section of his 1982, 1983 and 1984 reports in which he was required to disclose all positions he held outside of government.
The instructions on the form require filers to report "the identity of all positions held on or before the date of the filing during the current calendar year as an officer, director, trustee, partner, proprietor, representative, employee, or consultant of any corporation, firm, partnership, or other business enterprise, any nonprofit organization, any labor organization, or any educational or other institution."



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14436.html

[dadaelus]

Count me in the Claydon is a moron crowd.

There's other conservatives I like in here but disagree with a lot, but there's one thing I certainly agree with...
http://i38.tinypic.com/2iiy3xs.jpg

[kareyn01]

This speaks for itself:

a1FK-JdLEN4

[dadaelus]

I want to see these points reconciled

The instructions on the form require filers to report "the identity of all positions held on or before the date of the filing during the current calendar year as an officer, director, trustee, partner, proprietor, representative, employee, or consultant of any corporation, firm, partnership, or other business enterprise, any nonprofit organization, any labor organization, or any educational or other institution."And

“those directions have never been understood to include advisory boards or other positions which exercise no control over the organization and no fiduciary responsibilities for the organization.” McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers

[Desperado]

and now...
Watchdog group seeks ethics investigation of McCain (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/09/watchdog-group-seeks-ethics-investigation-of-mccain/)
Posted: 06:50 PM ET

From CNN Associate Producer Martina Stewart (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-associate-producer-martina-stewart/)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/10/09/art.macup1009.ap.jpg An ethics watchdog group has asked the Senate to investigate whether Sen. McCain failed to disclose gambling winnings.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

(CNN) – Ethics watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, commonly referred to as “CREW,” has requested that the Senate Ethics Committee investigate whether Sen. John McCain failed to disclose gambling earnings as required by federal law and the Senate’s own rules.
Click here (http://www.citizensforethics.org/files/McCain%20Ethics%20Complaint.pdf) to read CREW's request
Citing recent press reports, CREW alleges that McCain failed to disclose income earned from gambling on the personal financial disclosure forms he’s required to file as a senator. “Given Sen. McCain’s history of gambling on a regular basis over the years, it is nearly impossible to imagine that he never won over $200, the amount that triggers the reporting requirement,” CREW’s request says.
In the event the Senate Ethics Committee finds that McCain failed to disclose any gambling earnings, the watchdog group asks that the matter be turned over to the Department of Justice for a criminal investigation into whether McCain knowingly and willfully failed to disclose any winnings.
The McCain campaign has not responded yet to CNN’s request for comment about CREW’s request for an investigation.

[BIG PIZZLE]

That's stupid.

[Archangel]

Count me in the Claydon is a moron crowd.

Worse.

I'm pretty sure that Claydon acts the yee-haw conservative only because he will cling to anything that might make him look more manly.

[Yelram]

Worse.

I'm pretty sure that Claydon acts the yee-haw conservative only because he will cling to anything that might make him look more manly.

Or maybe because he lives in America and has a political opinion, but i'm sure anyone whos conservative must have some strange underlying reason why they're not a democrat. The funny thing here arch, is I know for a fact if you lived in this country, you would be a conservative.

[Archangel]

Or maybe because he lives in America and has a political opinion, but i'm sure anyone whos conservative must have some strange underlying reason why they're not a democrat. The funny thing here arch, is I know for a fact if you lived in this country, you would be a conservative.

And I know for a fact that I told you several times that I did live in your country. 680 N Lakeshore Drive (same building as Playboy corporate HQ, by the way), 60611 Chicago, IL, Lake Residence, Unit 680. The doormen's names were Mark, Don, and... I don't remember. Hey, it's even got a Wiki page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/680_N_Lake_Shore_Drive) My window looked out at the neighbouring buildings of Northwestern Hospital.

Also, I was speaking of Claydon specifically. He is, for all intents and purposes, a badly dressed metrosexual, yet when it comes to politics, he likes to play the big bad American. I mean, some Americans are conservatives because they value saving a few hundred bucks/annum in taxes over foreign lives, some love shooting things, some are racists, some are stuck in 18th-century sexual morals, some are too stupid to read the Bible, and there are certainly many more who have actual good reasons.

It's just my theory why a zinfandel-sipping, pencil-necked pseudo-academic sissy would vote Republican. It doesn't apply to you.

[Smokestack]

David Brooks on how the Republican party lost its way, cornering the dipshit vote and then losing it (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/opinion/10brooks.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin):

The Class War Before Palin

By DAVID BROOKS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/davidbrooks/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Modern conservatism began as a movement of dissident intellectuals. Richard Weaver wrote a book called, “Ideas Have Consequences.” Russell Kirk placed Edmund Burke in an American context. William F. Buckley famously said he’d rather be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the faculty of Harvard. But he didn’t believe those were the only two options. His entire life was a celebration of urbane values, sophistication and the rigorous and constant application of intellect.


Driven by a need to engage elite opinion, conservatives tried to build an intellectual counterestablishment with think tanks and magazines. They disdained the ideas of the liberal professoriate, but they did not disdain the idea of a cultivated mind.


Ronald Reagan was no intellectual, but he had an earnest faith in ideas and he spent decades working through them. He was rooted in the Midwest, but he also loved Hollywood. And for a time, it seemed the Republican Party would be a broad coalition — small-town values with coastal reach.


In 1976, in a close election, Gerald Ford won the entire West Coast along with northeastern states like New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont and Maine. In 1984, Reagan won every state but Minnesota.


But over the past few decades, the Republican Party has driven away people who live in cities, in highly educated regions and on the coasts. This expulsion has had many causes. But the big one is this: Republican political tacticians decided to mobilize their coalition with a form of social class warfare. Democrats kept nominating coastal pointy-heads like Michael Dukakis so Republicans attacked coastal pointy-heads.


Over the past 15 years, the same argument has been heard from a thousand politicians and a hundred television and talk-radio jocks. The nation is divided between the wholesome Joe Sixpacks in the heartland and the oversophisticated, overeducated, oversecularized denizens of the coasts.


What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. The liberals had coastal condescension, so the conservatives developed their own anti-elitism, with mirror-image categories and mirror-image resentments, but with the same corrosive effect.


Republicans developed their own leadership style. If Democratic leaders prized deliberation and self-examination, then Republicans would govern from the gut.


George W. Bush restrained some of the populist excesses of his party — the anti-immigration fervor, the isolationism — but stylistically he fit right in. As Fred Barnes wrote in his book, “Rebel-in-Chief,” Bush “reflects the political views and cultural tastes of the vast majority of Americans who don’t live along the East or West Coast. He’s not a sophisticate and doesn’t spend his discretionary time with sophisticates. As First Lady Laura Bush once said, she and the president didn’t come to Washington to make new friends. And they haven’t.”


The political effects of this trend have been obvious. Republicans have alienated the highly educated regions — Silicon Valley, northern Virginia, the suburbs outside of New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and Raleigh-Durham. The West Coast and the Northeast are mostly gone.


The Republicans have alienated whole professions. Lawyers now donate to the Democratic Party over the Republican Party at 4-to-1 rates. With doctors, it’s 2-to-1. With tech executives, it’s 5-to-1. With investment bankers, it’s 2-to-1. It took talent for Republicans to lose the banking community.


Conservatives are as rare in elite universities and the mainstream media as they were 30 years ago. The smartest young Americans are now educated in an overwhelmingly liberal environment.


This year could have changed things. The G.O.P. had three urbane presidential candidates. But the class-warfare clichés took control. Rudy Giuliani disdained cosmopolitans at the Republican convention. Mitt Romney gave a speech attacking “eastern elites.” (Mitt Romney!) John McCain picked Sarah Palin.


Palin is smart, politically skilled, courageous and likable. Her convention and debate performances were impressive. But no American politician plays the class-warfare card as constantly as Palin. Nobody so relentlessly divides the world between the “normal Joe Sixpack American” and the coastal elite.


She is another step in the Republican change of personality. Once conservatives admired Churchill and Lincoln above all — men from wildly different backgrounds who prepared for leadership through constant reading, historical understanding and sophisticated thinking. Now those attributes bow down before the common touch.

And so, politically, the G.O.P. is squeezed at both ends. The party is losing the working class by sins of omission — because it has not developed policies to address economic anxiety. It has lost the educated class by sins of commission — by telling members of that class to go away

[Archangel]

So...


Republicans hate people who can think and read? Who'da thunk it. Guess that educated people are less likely to yell "terr'st" at everybody, huh.

[Limp]

So...
Republicans hate people who can think and read? Who'da thunk it. Guess that educated people are less likely to yell "terr'st" at everybody, huh.
Stay the fuck out of our election you dog eating nazi terrorist!

[Desperado]

So this reminds of me Claydon/Rover's arguements... Are you guys in the same boat here against McCain?


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/mccain.mortgages/index.html
McCain faces conservative backlash over mortgage plan



By Alexander Mooney
CNN
(CNN) -- John McCain is facing a fresh round of anger from members of his own party deeply opposed to the Arizona senator's proposal for the federal government to purchase troubled mortgage loans.
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/10/10/mccain.mortgages/art.debate.afp.gi.jpgJohn McCain first mentioned his mortgage relief plan during Tuesday's town-hall debate with Barack Obama.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif


The pointed backlash from several economic conservatives -- many of whom already distrust McCain's commitment to free-market principles -- couldn't come at a worse time for the Republican presidential nominee less than four weeks before Election Day as he stares at a significant deficit in national and state polls.
But at a time when McCain can't afford to worry about a lack of support from his party's base, several conservatives are openly criticizing the plan as a flagrant reward for reckless behavior among lenders.
In a sharply worded editorial on its Web site Thursday, the editors of The National Review -- an influential bastion of conservative thought -- derided the plan as "creating a level of moral hazard that is unacceptable" and called it a "gift to lenders who abandoned any sense of prudence during the boom years." http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gif Watch the candidates' plans get the 'no bull' test » (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/mccain.mortgages/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)
Prominent conservative blogger Michelle Malkin went one step further, calling the plan "rotten" and declaring on her blog, "We're Screwed '08."
Matt Lewis, a contributing writer for the conservative Web site Townhall.com, told CNN the plan only further riles conservatives upset with McCain's backing of the massive government bailout plan (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Economic_Policy) passed last week.
"Fundamentally, the problem is John McCain accepts a lot of liberal notions, unfortunately. There is somewhat of a populist streak," he said. "Most conservatives really did not like the bailout to begin with, and this was really kind of picking at the scab."



It's not just the plan conservatives are unhappy with, but how it was first unveiled as well -- out of the blue at Tuesday's town-hall debate during which Republicans were instead hoping McCain (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/John_McCain) would present a spirited attack on what they view as Obama's overly liberal positions.
"Here we are watching the debate hoping this is a good format for John McCain to excel at, and the first thing he does is spring this on us," Lewis said. "This is not a good way to win friends and influence people."
"He spent the entire debate assailing massive government spending -- while his featured proposal of the right was to heap on more massive government spending to pursue home ownership retention at all costs," Malkin said

[Rover]

So this reminds of me Claydon/Rover's arguements... Are you guys in the same boat here against McCain?


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/10/mccain.mortgages/index.html No, I don't support this. I don't support a lot of what McCain says or does. Foreign policy...yes. Domestic policy...not so much.

[ElvisWong]

John McCain is dumb.

Good comment!!!

[Smokestack]

Former governor Milliken backs away from McCain

by Pat Shellenbarger | The Grand Rapids Press Friday October 10, 2008, 6:57 AM


http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/news_impact/2008/10/small_MILLIKEN-mug.jpgFormer Republican Gov. William Milliken
GRAND RAPIDS -- He endorsed John McCain in the presidential primary, but now former Republican Gov. William Milliken is expressing doubts about his party's nominee.
"He is not the McCain I endorsed," said Milliken, reached at his Traverse City home Thursday. "He keeps saying, 'Who is Barack Obama?' I would ask the question, 'Who is John McCain?' because his campaign has become rather disappointing to me.
"I'm disappointed in the tenor and the personal attacks on the part of the McCain campaign, when he ought to be talking about the issues."
Milliken, a lifelong Republican, is among some past leaders from the party's moderate wing voicing reservations and, in some cases, opposition to McCain's candidacy.

[halfabubbleoff]

No, I don't support this. I don't support a lot of what McCain says or does. Foreign policy...yes. Domestic policy...not so much.

Serious question, Rover: What exactly do you like about McCain's foreign policy and how does it offset your domestic concerns?

On a side note. I know you are not an Obama fan, but is there anything in his platform that you do agree with/support?

Anyone else among our "right leaning friends" please feel free to respond as well.

Any other Obama supporters, please swap the names. I am genuinely interested to hear some of the input on this.

[Yelram]

Serious question, Rover: What exactly do you like about McCain's foreign policy and how does it offset your domestic concerns?

On a side note. I know you are not an Obama fan, but is there anything in his platform that you do agree with/support?

Anyone else among our "right leaning friends" please feel free to respond as well.

Any other Obama supporters, please swap the names. I am genuinely interested to hear some of the input on this.

I agree with people having to pay SS on all their earned income, instead of just up to 100,000 dollars, but that is mainly for the solvency of the system. I agree that we do need more troops in Afghanistan, but I believe that John Mccain does as well. His healthcare plan isnt bad if its what he says it is, but i'm absolutely sure it isnt. If it was to cover the people who make too much to apply for government healthcare, but too little to pay for it themselves, i'm in favor of that. I really dont like John Mccain, but Obama has scared me away with alot of his "world" crap.

[feith]

president obama baybeeeeee.

[redsox39]

Serious question, Rover: What exactly do you like about McCain's foreign policy and how does it offset your domestic concerns?

On a side note. I know you are not an Obama fan, but is there anything in his platform that you do agree with/support?

Anyone else among our "right leaning friends" please feel free to respond as well.

Any other Obama supporters, please swap the names. I am genuinely interested to hear some of the input on this.

I probably lean towards the Liberterian side, but The Republican are the next closet thing (not much better than the Dem's though).

Green Government: Reduce, Reduce, Reduce.

[Smokestack]

I really dont like John Mccain, but Obama has scared me away with alot of his "world" crap.

I'm a little scared to ask, but what the hell does this mean?

[Smokestack]

Christopher Buckley endorses Obama ("sorry, Dad"):

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama

[BIG PIZZLE]

McCain seems to be acting with a little more reason.
By PHILIP ELLIOTT and BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writers 30 minutes ago
LAKEVILLE, Minn. - The anger is getting raw at Republican rallies and John McCain is acting to tamp it down. McCain was booed by his own supporters Friday when, in an abrupt switch from raising questions about Barack Obama's character, he described the Democrat as a "decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States."
A sense of grievance spilling into rage has gripped some GOP events this week as McCain supporters see his presidential campaign lag against Obama. Some in the audience are making it personal, against the Democrat. Shouts of "traitor," "terrorist," "treason," "liar," and even "off with his head" have rung from the crowd at McCain and Sarah Palin rallies, and gone unchallenged by them.
McCain changed his tone Friday when supporters at a town hall pressed him to be rougher on Obama. A voter said, "The people here in Minnesota want to see a real fight." Another said Obama would lead the U.S. into socialism. Another said he did not want his unborn child raised in a country led by Obama.
"If you want a fight, we will fight," McCain said. "But we will be respectful. I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments." When people booed, he cut them off.
"I don't mean that has to reduce your ferocity," he said. "I just mean to say you have to be respectful."
Presidential candidates are accustomed to raucous rallies this close to Election Day and welcome the enthusiasm. But they are also traditionally monitors of sorts from the stage. Part of their job is to leaven proceedings if tempers run ragged and to rein in an out-of-bounds comment from the crowd.
Not so much this week, at GOP rallies in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida and other states.
When a visibly angry McCain supporter in Waukesha, Wis., on Thursday told the candidate "I'm really mad" because of "socialists taking over the country," McCain stoked the sentiment. "I think I got the message," he said. "The gentleman is right." He went on to talk about Democrats in control of Congress.
On Friday, McCain rejected the bait.
"I don't trust Obama," a woman said. "I have read about him. He's an Arab."
McCain shook his head in disagreement, and said:
"No, ma'am. He's a decent, family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with (him) on fundamental issues and that's what this campaign is all about."
He had drawn boos with his comment: "I have to tell you, he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States."
The anti-Obama taunts and jeers are noticeably louder when McCain appears with Palin, a big draw for GOP social conservatives. She accused Obama this week of "palling around with terrorists" because of his past, loose association with a 1960s radical. If less directly, McCain, too, has sought to exploit Obama's Chicago neighborhood ties to William Ayers, while trying simultaneously to steer voters' attention to his plans for the financial crisis.
The Alaska governor did not campaign with McCain on Friday, and his rally in La Crosse, Wis., earlier Friday was much more subdued than those when the two campaigned together. Still, one woman shouted "traitor" when McCain told voters Obama would raise their taxes.
Volunteers worked up chants from the crowd of "U.S.A." and "John McCain, John McCain," in an apparent attempt to drown out boos and other displays of negative energy.
The Secret Service confirmed Friday that it had investigated an episode reported in The Washington Post in which someone in Palin's crowd in Clearwater, Fla., shouted "kill him," on Monday, meaning Obama. There was "no indication that there was anything directed at Obama," Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren told AP. "We looked into it because we always operate in an atmosphere of an abundance of caution."
Palin, at a fundraiser in Ohio on Friday, told supporters "it's not negative and it's not mean-spirited" to scrutinize Obama's iffy associations.
But Kathleen Hall Jamieson, director of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania an author of 15 books on politics, says the vitriol has been encouraged by inflammatory words from the stage.

"Red-meat rhetoric elicits emotional responses in those already disposed by ads using words such as 'dangerous' 'dishonorable' and 'risky' to believe that the country would be endangered by election of the opposing candidate," she said.

[Mustard]

These are the things that are going to happen when your campaign has been propogating fear about your opponent.

Kf6YKOkfFsE

Kudos to John for ripping the mic out of her hand at the end and setting the record straight, but still... this is exactly what you get when you promote fear and outright lies in your campaign.

[BIG PIZZLE]

These are the things that are going to happen when your campaign has been propogating fear about your opponent.

Kf6YKOkfFsE

Kudos to John for ripping the mic out of her hand at the end and setting the record straight, but still... this is exactly what you get when you promote fear and outright lies in your campaign.

I dont know what's worse, the fact that this dumb fat yokel is a racist or the fact that she was like "No?" when McCain was shaking his head because the idea that she was a dumb fat yokel never crossed her mind. I cant believe people like this exist.

[freegood]

Some people do what they're told. Say faith 15 times in a speech and they fools will believe whatever you say and think you'll defend what they' think.

The liberal media establishgenda dunno what hit'em.

[DjAg]

I just find it funny how "Arab" is considering an insult by everyone using it to describe Obama. Do a lot of us Americans seriously not know the difference between an Arab, a Muslim, and a Terrorist?

[Mustard]

I dont know what's worse, the fact that this dumb fat yokel is a racist or the fact that she was like "No?" when McCain was shaking his head because the idea that she was a dumb fat yokel never crossed her mind. I cant believe people like this exist.
Both are bad, but yeah, I too don't know what is worse. I think its pretty safe to say that only the truly intellectually bankrupt, racist, hatemongers are the ones who think and say things like this.

Its too bad that the number of people in that group is probably larger than the population of the state I live in. Given the history of the US, if the McCain camp proceeds down this road of cloaked racism, then I'm going to call him out personally on propogating and inciting fear, hatred, and racism.
I just find it funny how "Arab" is considering an insult by everyone using it to describe Obama. Do a lot of us Americans seriously not know the difference between an Arab, a Muslim, and a Terrorist?
If you're a true mouth-breather, like the people who congregate at FreeRepublic, then you'd get it. Clearly you aren't, and that is why you have this feeling of perplexion, much like most of the rest of the US, and the civilized world for that matter.

[TheImpossibleMan]

These are the things that are going to happen when your campaign has been propogating fear about your opponent.

Kf6YKOkfFsE

Kudos to John for ripping the mic out of her hand at the end and setting the record straight, but still... this is exactly what you get when you promote fear and outright lies in your campaign.
I don't think you can blame McCain for this for one second. It's not his fault so much of his party's support comes from the redneck, know-nothing yokel crowd, a demographic which McCain is emphatically not a part of. I'm a huge Obama fan but I think it's outrageous to suggest that McCain should bear the blame for the ignorant racism that permeates so much of the South.

In regards to the video: Good for you McCain. I honestly clapped in admiration at the end of the clip (which I know sounds silly, but it's like an outburst when your team hits a home run in the 9th...I just think it was an outstanding, upstanding thing for McCain to do. That shit took guts).

[Mustard]

I don't think you can blame McCain for this for one second. It's not his fault so much of his party's support comes from the redneck, know-nothing yokel crowd, a demographic which McCain is emphatically not a part of. I'm a huge Obama fan but I think it's outrageous to suggest that McCain should bear the blame for the ignorant racism that permeates so much of the South.
Ok, I agree yet I disagree.

I acknowledge that these people were very much more than likely ignorant, racist "yokels" long before John McCain began his campaign. That is what I agree with.

I disagree with the notion that "I can't blame McCain for this". John McCain's campaign has been spreading the smears about Obama consorting with terrorists and that I do find fault with, and therefore I do blame McCain for propogating and inflaming the inherent racist tendencies a good amount of his supporters have.

[BIG PIZZLE]

I actually feel bad for McCain right now. This is not John McCain. But you have to ask, if he cant control is campain, how is he going to control his whitehouse?

[Genius]

All of the talk about which Presidential candidate is more likely to die got me thinking. It got me thinking about how we still have a former Klan member as third in line for the Presidency. And we likely will regardless of who wins in November. And that made me sad.

[Mustard]

What? Nancy Pelosi was in the KKK?

[freegood]

All of the talk about which Presidential candidate is more likely to die got me thinking. It got me thinking about how we still have a former Klan member as third in line for the Presidency. And we likely will regardless of who wins in November. And that made me sad.

You gotta admit that it'd be just as sad, if not sadder, if Ted Stephens gets that spot. Assuming he's still Senator

[dadaelus]

I dont know what's worse, the fact that this dumb fat yokel is a racist or the fact that she was like "No?" when McCain was shaking his head because the idea that she was a dumb fat yokel never crossed her mind. I cant believe people like this exist.

They exist and seem to be a target audience for some republican political strategists:

David Brooks column

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/opinion/10brooks.html?ref=opinion

But over the past few decades, the Republican Party has driven away people who live in cities, in highly educated regions and on the coasts. This expulsion has had many causes. But the big one is this: Republican political tacticians decided to mobilize their coalition with a form of social class warfare.

[vasili denisov]

Do a lot of us Americans seriously not know the difference between an Arab, a Muslim, and a Terrorist?

Arab.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2r7mzph.jpg

Muslim.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2cnjgxs.jpg

Terrorist.

http://i35.tinypic.com/ndsmdv.jpg

[Mustard]

No no no VD, you have it all wrong. I fixed it for you.

Arab.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2cnjgxs.jpg

Muslim.

http://i35.tinypic.com/ndsmdv.jpg

Terrorist.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2r7mzph.jpg

[TheImpossibleMan]

The best part about that YouTube clip is that that woman clearly cannot seem to believe that she's about to get away with saying such racist shit on national television.

[Archangel]

I don't think you can blame McCain for this for one second. It's not his fault so much of his party's support comes from the redneck, know-nothing yokel crowd, a demographic which McCain is emphatically not a part of. I'm a huge Obama fan but I think it's outrageous to suggest that McCain should bear the blame for the ignorant racism that permeates so much of the South.

In regards to the video: Good for you McCain. I honestly clapped in admiration at the end of the clip (which I know sounds silly, but it's like an outburst when your team hits a home run in the 9th...I just think it was an outstanding, upstanding thing for McCain to do. That shit took guts).

On one hand.


On the other, I find it interesting that "decent, upstanding family man" is the opposite of "Arab".

As for McCain, yeah, he showed some guts there, and I respect him for it, but he should have squashed all this "terr'st" bullshit from his supporters from the word go. And frankly, Mrs Palin's rhetoric isn't helping in that regard.


And I'm not trying to be an ass here, but since my American experience is mostly limited to large cities, just how many idiots like that cunt ARE out there?

[Yelram]

Rd5gm8XKv_w

[Morfin]

And I'm not trying to be an ass here, but since my American experience is mostly limited to large cities, just how many idiots like that cunt ARE out there?

They are out there, and by seeing clips of them, one can't help but getting the impression that they are prevalent -- but they aren't. There is no denying that these types of ignorant people exist, but the majority of them are older people who have been raised in a different time. I believe there are fewer and fewer as each year passes and people die -- not unlike that Jesse Helms died and Robert Byrd will pass in the not-too-distant future, and be replaced by different-thinking people. That is, the time has passed when a former member of the KKK can get elected to Congress.

There will always be a certain number of ignorant people who are racist and will believe garbage like that spouted about Obama, just like in 2000 there were people in South Carolina who believed the garbage about McCain having a half-black baby. But those people will never amount to anything politically. It is not that different from the separtists like the AIP guy. There will always be these wackos but they will never amount to anything politically.

As to McCain, I don't give him any credit for taking that mic away from the racist lady. He and Palin stoked the flames of this belief with Palin saying that Obama "pals around with terrorists," and with McCain asking "Who is the real Obama?"

Now that this strategy has backfired, McCain (and his lost honor) are left with trying to put out the fire. What remains is McCain trying in vain to calm the mob that he created. Pathetic. McCain had a lot of public respect built up because of his war hero past and his independent work in Congress. And it is all gone, blown away by the tornado of his ambition and clueless political handlers.

[kid_vidrio]

Yelram, before you make a greater fool of yourself with the 'negro vs african' position, I should point out that it was equal ignorance that placed the term 'African' but not as it relates to 'negro.'
His father was in fact from Africa, which at that time was just one big continent to Hawaiians or perhaps they would have written'Kenyan'. Come to think of it, things haven't changed much. Many people would still try to identify Florida somewhere in Brazil or Maine off of the Cape of Good Hope.
The point being, his father was a foreign national and not bound by the US terms for its own 'negro' people.

How many times will the birth certificate, wahabbism, terrorist funded bullshit get recycled do you suppose?
Did you know that John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald have the same number of letters? And that Barack Hussein Obama has three more, which is the number of the Holy Trinity? Obama is actually Jesus!

[Genius]

What will the middle class do when he cuts their taxes and pulls their children out of Iraq? WHAT THEN?!?!?!?



They'll come up with even more hateful emails, scarcely disguised derogatory speech, and claim that he should be deported to his home country of Hawaii. That's what.

[kid_vidrio]

I say we invade Hawaii and make it a state.

[freegood]

Does it have oil?

Will they welcome us as liberators?

[Archangel]

What about an exit strategy?

[freegood]

Yelram, before you make a greater fool of yourself with the 'negro vs african' position, I should point out that it was equal ignorance that placed the term 'African' but not as it relates to 'negro.'
His father was in fact from Africa, which at that time was just one big continent to Hawaiians or perhaps they would have written'Kenyan'. Come to think of it, things haven't changed much. Many people would still try to identify Florida somewhere in Brazil or Maine off of the Cape of Good Hope.
The point being, his father was a foreign national and not bound by the US terms for its own 'negro' people.

How many times will the birth certificate, wahabbism, terrorist funded bullshit get recycled do you suppose?
Did you know that John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald have the same number of letters? And that Barack Hussein Obama has three more, which is the number of the Holy Trinity? Obama is actually Jesus!

I thought Yelram was an Obama supporter 4 or 5 months ago.

He must've forgot to wear his tin foil hat for a week. The government's mind waves got to him.

[Genius]

What about an exit strategy?
We prefer quagmires to exits. Our politicians just like to say quagmire. Another favorite work is defeatist.

[URFloorMatt]

In regards to the video: Good for you McCain. I honestly clapped in admiration at the end of the clip (which I know sounds silly, but it's like an outburst when your team hits a home run in the 9th...I just think it was an outstanding, upstanding thing for McCain to do. That shit took guts).

You mean after weeks of standing by silently while his supporters peddle this shit we should suddenly respect him for standing up? There was a time, way back in May, when he condemned people for invoking "Barack Hussein Obama" in a clearly derogatory way. What happened to that McCain?

Standing up against this garbage was his duty, one that he's ignored for weeks because he thought rallying his base would be enough to put him over the top. I definitely do not respect him for standing up to these horrible views now. All I can say is, "It's about damn time."

McCain's got a long way to go before he repairs his reputation. You certainly don't get respect points from me just for playing good cop/bad cop with your VP candidate. Until Palin also changes her tune, in my mind McCain is absolutely on the hook for everything she says too.

[generalbo]

Colmes beating Hannity over an argument is like the Washington Generals winning against the Globetrotters....
saDewF41rJI


Hannity is a douche...

[Claydon]

We prefer quagmires to exits. Our politicians just like to say quagmire. Another favorite work is defeatist.

Except, Iraq is not a quagmire.

[Archangel]

Of course not. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are nothing short of spectacular successes.

[Archangel]

Sometimes, I wonder.

You're a good ol' American, lovin' Jaysus, shootin' 'possums, hatin' fags, drivin' a pick-up, all that good stuff. And now you see that damn near everybody who's richer, better educated, smarter, more civilised, less 19th century than you is cheering on one of them there "terr'sts" to be the president of your country. And that a political party actually nominates him for that very office.

How must that make you feel? I mean, your retarded little world has got to be falling apart.

[freegood]

It terrifies the hell out of me. They actually think killing a Presidential candidate who they think is a terrorist is not an act of terrorism.

[Archangel]

They have no idea what "terrorist" actually means, do they?

[freegood]

psst... Arab or Ayers

Anything that begins with A.

[TheImpossibleMan]

And I'm not trying to be an ass here, but since my American experience is mostly limited to large cities, just how many idiots like that cunt ARE out there?
There are a pretty good number. Like you said, it's about the cities - cities tend to be very liberal, the country the opposite. Obama will win in a landslide - but the total landmass represented by the states he wins will be less than what goes to McCain, because states with sparse, light populations or pooer, less educated persons overwhelmingly vote Republican (like Mill said, it's not that all conservatives are stupid, it's that most stupid people are conservative). I was in Portland, a medium-sized, very liberal city, and I was hanging out with some friends of the family who happen to be quite poor and who have a lot of poor friends. They loved Obama - and to a person thought he was a Muslim. There are millions of people out there like that bitch, but we don't hear about them often.

Man that was 10000x more rambling and aimless than I meant it to be...:-(

[freegood]

These are the things that are going to happen when your campaign has been propogating fear about your opponent.

Kf6YKOkfFsE

Kudos to John for ripping the mic out of her hand at the end and setting the record straight, but still... this is exactly what you get when you promote fear and outright lies in your campaign.

This is nasty, but hardly shocking...


Gayle Quinnel, a John McCain supporter says at a McCain Rally that "Obama is an Arab". She is quickly corrected by John McCain who takes away her microphone.

This is an interview with her done by a live streaming cell phone. Interviewers include Noah Kunin, Senior Political Correspondent from The UpTake, Adam Aigner of NBC News and Dana Bash of CNN.

Quinnel says she obtained the information on Obama being an Arab at "her local library" and from a pamphlet obtained at a local McCain campaign office (provided by a fellow volunteer not the campaign itself). She has taken it upon herself to redistribute the information as widely as possible by making copies of the pamphlet and sending it to random names in the phone book.

VIDEO AND TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW (http://the-uptake.groups.theuptake.org/en/videogalleryView/id/933/)
(It is a little hard to hear in parts)

[Archangel]

What's he gonna do, burn down all the redneck churches in America?



Wait, that's actually a pretty good idea.

[Stax]

Obama buys a Half-Hour Block from the networks (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/10/10/ST2008101003073.html) on October 29th.

Barack Obama's presidential campaign is getting a bargain for the half-hour of prime time it's bought on CBS and NBC, and is in talks about buying on ABC and Fox.

The Democratic presidential candidate's camp is paying less than $1 million to each of the two networks to air its campaign-related program on Wednesday, Oct. 29. That's just six days before the election and the anniversary of Black Tuesday in 1929 -- the notorious day in stock market history that heralded the start of the Great Depression.

Obama's campaign might want to create a "roadblock" with the show, which is to say, to air it in the same time period on all four major broadcast networks.

Fox is said to be amenable to selling the half-hour to Obama's campaign -- these are called "time buys" -- in the event there is no Game 6 of the World Series that night. Fox is contractually obligated to carry the game if this year's Series comes to that. Otherwise, the network has nothing to lose airing Obama programming in the time slot, given that its World Series fallback plan is always called "Some Rerun."

Late yesterday, ABC and Obama's camp were still in talks about whether the network will sell the first half of the time slot, which it had earmarked for another episode of hour-long dramedy "Pushing Daisies." The show is one of last year's freshman series hurt by the 100-day writers' strike and that the network is attempting to relaunch this fall, but so far without much luck. ABC execs may believe there is opportunity for "Pushing Daisies" to get more sampling on Oct. 29 if the network does not join in the Obama time buy.

So if the WS follows the suit of the past several years and doesn't go to a Game 6, Barack Obama will be simulcast on three major networks (at least).

[heelsguy]

What's he gonna do, burn down all the redneck churches in America?



Wait, that's actually a pretty good idea.

burn down churches?

what the fuck is up with you? do you need to have an MRI to see if there is a tumor in your head?

[Hobnail_Boot]

Barack Obama's presidential campaign is getting a bargain for the half-hour of prime time...
LIBERAL media bias!

[Rover]

Buying a half hour of primetime network coverage didn't work out so well for Ross Perot. Worked great for Clinton, though.

[DjAg]

burn down churches?

what the fuck is up with you? do you need to have an MRI to see if there is a tumor in your head?

Not just any old churches... REDNECK churches. No more Larry the Cable guy OR Jeff Foxworthy! It will be like our current world, except a lot more teeth and a lot less mobile homes. How can anyone be against that... Unless, of course, they're a terrorist.

[Stax]

Buying a half hour of primetime network coverage didn't work out so well for Ross Perot. Worked great for Clinton, though.

Yeah, the media buy is why Perot lost.

[Genius]

I was lucky enough to meet Obama today in Toledo. He just happened to be in the neighborhood I was in, going door to door, shaking hands and answering questions. Got to say, it was a pretty powerful moment, shaking hands and talking to the man who is likely to be the next President of the United States. Plus, the Secret Service guys are intimidating as fuck in person. I've been a supporter for quite a while now, but it was obvious that his presence was changing people's minds right then and there. I got a picture with him that I might put up if I can figure this camera shit out.

[Hobnail_Boot]

I was lucky enough to meet Obama today in Toledo. He just happened to be in the neighborhood I was in, going door to door, shaking hands and answering questions. Got to say, it was a pretty powerful moment, shaking hands and talking to the man who is likely to be the next President of the United States. Plus, the Secret Service guys are intimidating as fuck in person. I've been a supporter for quite a while now, but it was obvious that his presence was changing people's minds right then and there. I got a picture with him that I might put up if I can figure this camera shit out.
That's cool, but I remember reading a few years ago that Skin Heads/Neo-Nazis hold rallies in Toledo fairly regularly. Is that true? Did they protest Obama?

[Genius]

That's cool, but I remember reading a few years ago that Skin Heads/Neo-Nazis hold rallies in Toledo fairly regularly. Is that true? Did they protest Obama?
The Nazis came in once and it was a disaster. There were minor riots and a few fires. If they tried any of that shit today, there was a large enough police and Secret Service presence to fight a small war, so it would be pretty stupid.

[Archangel]

burn down churches?

what the fuck is up with you? do you need to have an MRI to see if there is a tumor in your head?

I was referring to the interview that freegood posted, where the woman says that if Obama becomes president, things will get really bad for America. That it might become a Muslim country (how fucking paranoid do you have to be? We've got a 6% Muslim population, what do you have, .7%?) and such.

I was just wondering how that might manifest itself.

[Claydon]

I was referring to the interview that freegood posted, where the woman says that if Obama becomes president, things will get really bad for America. That it might become a Muslim country (how fucking paranoid do you have to be? We've got a 6% Muslim population, what do you have, .7%?) and such.

I was just wondering how that might manifest itself.


Even I don't believe that bullshit.

[freegood]

I was referring to the interview that freegood posted, where the woman says that if Obama becomes president, things will get really bad for America. That it might become a Muslim country (how fucking paranoid do you have to be? We've got a 6% Muslim population, what do you have, .7%?) and such.

I was just wondering how that might manifest itself.

She even doesn't appear to be a bad or hateful old woman. Just afraid of her country and her family.

As for where it comes from, I'm guessing those writers are hateful.

[Genius]

Today, in Holland, Ohio, outside of Toledo.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/genius34/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/genius34/GetAttachmentaspx1.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/genius34/GetAttachmentaspx2.jpg

[Mustard]

2 things

1) I love the color of trees in autumn.

2) Thats a whole lot of SUVs.

[Claydon]

Today, in Holland, Ohio, outside of Toledo.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/genius34/GetAttachmentaspx.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/genius34/GetAttachmentaspx1.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c300/genius34/GetAttachmentaspx2.jpg


You may find this shocking, but nice job on getting those pics. Sadly McCain nor Obama are coming to california as this state has been locked up for last 12 years for the dems. So congrats.

A friend of mine got GREAT pics of president clinton in 1998, he thought I would piss on them, its not like I didn't care for him as a president. I may dislike the man, but I respect the office.

[Mustard]

Found these pictures from Obama's meeting in Ohio. The real question is, which person is Genius?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03jy48VdxH6Bs/610x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0c2NaYU6sIgop/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02VP1qT8GY6Ef/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cpW9Ej5qRdxR/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07Lrd378Hgcwq/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01sw4OE08scEY/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08qc4xbe0k3XA/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fso3YTg4n423/340x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0d7P6dgc9z4d8/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0glob53dRgaFa/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02t64jN6BBd6Z/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02LZ7fX6Xx16U/340x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0d9r9Zdgif2A9/340x.jpg


My money is on the old woman in the 2nd picture.

[Kerjack]

I dunno but the lady in the HoHoHo boxers is hilarious. Not only are you outside on camera but you are talking to someone running for President lady. Might want to put some real clothes on.

[Das Kahlua]

Found these pictures from Obama's meeting in Ohio. The real question is, which person is Genius?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03jy48VdxH6Bs/610x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0c2NaYU6sIgop/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02VP1qT8GY6Ef/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cpW9Ej5qRdxR/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07Lrd378Hgcwq/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01sw4OE08scEY/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/08qc4xbe0k3XA/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fso3YTg4n423/340x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0d7P6dgc9z4d8/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0glob53dRgaFa/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02t64jN6BBd6Z/610x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02LZ7fX6Xx16U/340x.jpg


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0d9r9Zdgif2A9/340x.jpg


My money is on the old woman in the 2nd picture.

Genius is clearly the retarded looking kid in the last pic that is jealous that he dosn't get to shake hands with Obama because he's not black, too.

[Mustard]

I don't see it!!!

Genius is clearly the retarded looking kid in the last pic that is jealous that he dosn't get to shake hands with Obama because he's not black, too.
He isn't shaking his hand, he's giving him a high five. Or is it a low five? Perspective... its a bitch.

[Das Kahlua]

I don't see it!!!


He isn't shaking his hand, he's giving him a high five. Or is it a low five? Perspective... its a bitch.

I was "thinking outside the box"....that's kinda a big thing around here, please get with the program. Jeeze.

[Mustard]

Hey, I refuse to get with this "program", ok. For all I know, it could be smallpox.

[Das Kahlua]

The "Program" involves taking steroids and trying to rape co-eds. Didn't you watch the film? It was entitled "The Program" for idiots too dumb to figure it out.

[Mustard]

Umm... no comment.

[vasili denisov]

The "Program" involves taking steroids and trying to rape co-eds. Didn't you watch the film? It was entitled "The Program" for idiots too dumb to figure it out.
Was that with James Caan? He may be a very attractive man, but in a southern college, he'd a little bit too "ethnic" to play a co-ed.

[Das Kahlua]

Was that with James Caan? He may be a very attractive man, but in a southern college, he'd a little bit too "ethnic" to play a co-ed.

That movie took place 25 years ago. Things change.

[vasili denisov]

That movie took place 25 years ago. Things change.
*phew*

http://i35.tinypic.com/2s6r4w5.jpg

[Das Kahlua]

All this beatnik talk, is Jack Kerouac a candidate?

Or do too many people have their heads buried too deeply in the sands of ignorance to recognize that the situation that we have on our hands right now isn't going away, and can't be offset by running away?

We either have to deal with the situation on our terms, or it will deal with us on its terms. I, personally, prefer the former.

[vasili denisov]

http://i34.tinypic.com/2qs06zb.jpg

[vasili denisov]

http://i34.tinypic.com/1432snq.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2n67khd.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2s0fog6.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/2e1hw0k.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/wvep7t.jpg

[Das Kahlua]

I'm convinced....




you're much worse than even Aloha Bear, or whatever the fuck his name is.

[Archetype]

I lol'd.

[Morfin]

Apropos of John McCain's speech two weeks ago, where his tag line was: Who is Barak Obama?

I am reading a biography of James K. Polk, who was President from 1845-1849. (Yes, I know, Get a life.)

Anyhoo, Polk, a little-known political figure nationally, was running against the well-known Henry Clay. The Clay supporters sneered, "Who Is James Polk?"

In a great response, one of Polk's supporters countered with "He is the man who, come November 4th, will be President of the United States."

[Genius]

For the record, I don't see myself in any of those pictures, but I recognize a few people.

[VoxAngelikus]

Why Obama won't win?

"Sure, I'll vote for the black! (wink wink)


Will Obama suffer from the 'Bradley effect'? (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/obama.bradley.effect/index.html)

From Jason Carroll
CNN

(CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama has a sizable lead over Sen. John McCain, polls show, but those numbers could be deceiving if the "Bradley effect" comes into play. Polls show that Sen. Barack Obama has a sizable lead over Sen. John McCain.

The Bradley effect is named after former Los Angeles Mayor Tom Bradley, an African-American who ran for California governor in 1982. Exit polls showed Bradley leading by a wide margin, and the Democrat confidentially thought it would be an early election night.

But Bradley and the polls were wrong. He lost to Republican George Deukmejian. The theory was that polling was wrong because some voters, who did not want to appear bigoted, said they voted for Bradley even though they did not.

"People will usually tell you how they voted after the election, but we found in the Bradley campaign ... that people were actually not telling us who they voted for," said Charles Henry, who researched Bradley's election.

The Bradley effect is also called the "Wilder effect," after Douglas Wilder, Virginia's former governor. He won by just one-tenth of a percent, but as he pointed out to CNN, "people forget -- in the exit polls, I was still double-digits ahead."

According to CNN's latest poll of polls, Obama (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/barack.obama.html) is leading McCain (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/john.mccain.html) by 8 percentage points, 50 to 42.

Some analysts say the race could be much closer or even tied if the Bradley effect is factored in.

"It leaves a question mark over this race, and we won't have the final answer until the votes are counted," said David Gergen, a senior political analyst for CNN.

But there could be an opposite effect, Wilder said. "There's going to be a reverse Wilder or Bradley effect. ... There are some Republicans who are not going to say out front that they're going to be voting for Obama, but they're going to be, because the economy is what's driving people to consider what's in their best interest," he said.

Some analysts say the Bradley (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/Tom_Bradley) effect can account for 6 percentage points against an African-American candidate.

Michelle Obama told CNN's Larry King that a lot has changed since Bradley lost.

"That was several decades ago, and I think there's been growth and movement," she said. "I just believe that the issues are going to weigh in people's hearts more so as they go into the voting booths this time around."

Former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown said last week that he thinks the Bradley effect could cost Obama several battleground states -- and possibly the presidency.

Race "is still a problem in this country," Brown told CNN. "It goes away when there are other troubles that are more challenging, and right now, whether or not we survive in the economy is more challenging. But race could rear its ugly head. I just hope it doesn't before November 4." In the past 15 years or so, there's been no indication in the polls that the Bradley effect has been a factor in statewide races.

Bill Schneider, CNN's senior political analyst, said that if there is racism in this year's election (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/U_S_Presidential_Election), it's probably already showing up in the polls. And Keating Holland, CNN's polling director, pointed out another important caveat:

"We've never had a black presidential candidate as a major nominee, so the polls don't have any history at all when it comes to national elections," he said.

[smahoo]

Then there's this fuckstick delivering the my God can beat up your God invocation at a McCain campaign stop in Iowa this past weekend


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g0d3_KE5js

[Smokestack]

Why Obama won't win?

Will Obama suffer from the 'Bradley effect'? (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/obama.bradley.effect/index.html)

"Sure, I'll vote for the black! (wink wink)

The Bradley Effect has been getting some re-examination of late, particularly from Bradley's former pollster (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_bradley_effect_selective_m.html): (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_bradley_effect_selective_m.html%29:)

The Bradley Effect - Selective Memory

By V. Lance Tarrance, Jr. (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/author/v_lance_tarrance_jr/)
Now that polls indicate Senator Barack Obama is the favorite to win, some analysts predict a racially biased "Bradley Effect" could prevent Obama from winning a majority on November 4th. That is a pernicious canard and is unworthy of 21st century political narratives. I should know. I was there in 1982 at "ground zero" in California when I served George Deukmejian as his general election pollster and as a member of his strategy team when he defeated African-American Democratic California gubernatorial candidate Tom Bradley, not once but twice, in 1982 and again in 1986.
Bradley Effect believers assume that there is an undetectable tendency in the behavior of some white voters who tell pollsters that they are "undecided" when in fact their true preference is to vote against the black candidate. This so-called effect suggests the power or advantage to alter an outcome - a pretty serious charge. This would render poll projections inaccurate (overstating both the number of undecided voters and the African-American candidate's margin over a white opponent) and create an unaccounted for different outcome. However, it is indeed a "theory in search of data."

The hype surrounding the Bradley Effect has evolved to where some political pundits believe in 2008 that Obama must win in the national pre-election polls by 6-9 points before he can be assured a victory. That's absurd. There won't be a 6-9 point Bradley Effect -- there can't be, since few national polls show a large enough amount of undecided voters and it's in the undecided column where racism supposedly hides.
The other reason I reject the Bradley Effect in 2008 is because there was not a Bradley Effect in the 1982 California Governor's race, either. Even though Tom Bradley had been slightly ahead in the polls in 1982, due to sampling error, it was statistically too close to call. For example, the daily Tarrance and Associates tracking polls for the Deukmejian campaign showed the following weekly summations (N=1000 each) during the month of October:

Week of:
Oct.7th Oct. 14th Oct. 21st Oct. 28 Nov. 1
Bradley 49 45 46 45 45
Deukmejian 37 41 41 42 44

It is obvious that this election was closing fast. Yet, Bradley's win was projected by the most prominent public pollster in the state, Mervin Field, who boasted on Election Day that Tom Bradley would defeat George Deukmejian, "making the Los Angeles mayor the first elected black governor in American history" (UPI 11-3-82). The reason for Field's enthusiasm was that his last weekend polling showed a 7-point margin for Bradley, but this was totally at variance from the Tarrance and Associates internal tracking results. Field's own exit polls, on Election Day itself, where voters were questioned after they left the polling places, also predicted a Bradley win. This caused the San Fransisco Chronicle, ignoring the closeness of the election and mixed polling results, to print 170,000 copies of its early morning Wednesday edition under the headline "Bradley Win Projected."
Also at variance with the Mervin Field exit polls were the NBC and the CBS networks, using both exit polls and actual returns from key precincts, when they declared George Deukmejian the winner and not Tom Bradley the winner. In an AP report, a KNBC newscaster told viewers on Election Night "...half of the polls are wrong and I don't know who's right." The only thing we know for sure is the election was too close to call, and some of the Election Day projections were right and others (notably Mervin Fields' projections) were wrong and, unfortunately, most of this explanation because of selective memory has not been carried forward to this day.
The Field Poll inaugurated the speculation that led to the baseless Bradley Effect theory when, after the 1982 election, Field said "race was a factor in the Bradley loss" (AP 11-4-82). Mervin Field cited no data, but only speculated that white conservative voters of both parties were more undecided and that he may have over-represented minority voters in his polling. Thus, the Bradley Effect was born amidst some major polling errors and a confusing array of mixed predictions, hardly a firm foundation to construct a theory.
Even later analysis of the 1982 election revealed the weakness in the Bradley Effect theory as Bradley actually won on election day turnout, but lost the absentee vote so badly that Deukmejian pulled ahead to win. That Bradley won the vote on Election Day would hardly seem to suggest a hidden or last minute anti-black backlash--on the contrary, it suggests how easy it would have been for weekend polls and Election Day exit polls to get it wrong, since the decisive group of voters had largely already voted before the final weekend and never showed up at the polls to answer the questions of exit pollsters.
When Barack Obama lost the 2008 New Hampshire primary after all seven pre-election polls had Obama projected as the winner, the Bradley Effect got a second wind, blown along by a lot of misinformed press speculation asserting that our nation was still suffering from latent racism. A few weeks later, after much analysis of election demographics, and with a more thoughtful examination, it is clear that race was not the determinant that gave Hillary Clinton a surprising victory. In fact, it was a combination of an older brand of feminism, the open party system that encouraged independents to vote in the primary and some Obama campaign hubris that caused the result.
The New Hampshire polling debacle was also eerily familiar to those of us who witnessed first-hand the 1982 California election day errors. A lesson learned from 1982 campaign, but not remembered in 2008, was what a San Francisco Chronicle editor said the day after the 1982 election, "It seemed logical...to project a continued gain for Bradley." There was never a consensus of data to support this logic. The 2008 New Hampshire update on the so-called Bradley Effect also falls short of proving this false theory of latent racism. Instead, the New Hampshire debacle should be labeled for what it is, the worst polling disaster since "Dewey Beats Truman."
The Deukmejian campaign tracking polls did not confirm any Bradley Effect and to interject this type of speculation into the 2008 presidential election is not only folly, but insulting to the political maturity of our nation's voters. To allow this theory to continue to persist anymore than 25 years is to damage our democracy, no matter who wins.

[Morfin]

Then there's this fuckstick delivering the my God can beat up your God invocation at a McCain campaign stop in Iowa this past weekend


5g0d3_KE5js

Did that guy, who claims to be speaking to God, really just "remind" God that his reputation is on the line?

He said, "Lord, we know that you are in charge of everything that will happen between now and November." (0:19)

"And Lord, I would add that your reputation is involved in all things that happen between now and November." (0:53)

"And God, I would pray that you would guard your reputation, because their Gods are going to think that they're bigger than you. (1:19)

"So I pray that you would step forward and honor your own name in all that happens between now and election day." (1:28).

Let me get this straight. He just said to God that if you don't make McCain win, you'll be letting those other Gods walk all over you like a pussy.

Unbelievable. This is why I abhor many organized religions. Who could honestly believe that crap or follow some guy who spouts that garbage? I wish there was a God so that he would smite this joker.

[Archangel]

Lulz American religious folk.

[Morfin]

(I have moved this over from the Palin thread.)

If that were the case, conservatives like Chuck Hagel, Christopher Buckley (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama/), Colin Powell, Larry Hunter (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/06/19/obamacon-has-questions-for-the-senator.aspx), or other Obamacons (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=46a816dc-f843-41ec-9fe4-fbeac17bcfca) would not support him.

Check out the links. I'm interested in what you think about them. No arguments from me.

This Buckley article is very good and echoes my opinion (only his is well-written, and mine is mind-mush) that if the previous John McCain were running, I would be voting for him. Here is an excerpt:


McCain rose to power on his personality and biography. He was authentic. He spoke truth to power. He told the media they were “jerks” (a sure sign of authenticity, to say nothing of good taste; we are jerks). He was real. He was unconventional. He embraced former anti-war leaders. He brought resolution to the awful missing-POW business. He brought about normalization with Vietnam—his former torturers! Yes, he erred in accepting plane rides and vacations from Charles Keating, but then, having been cleared on technicalities, groveled in apology before the nation. He told me across a lunch table, “The Keating business was much worse than my five and a half years in Hanoi, because I at least walked away from that with my honor.” Your heart went out to the guy. I thought at the time, God, this guy should be president someday.

A year ago, when everyone, including the man I’m about to endorse, was caterwauling to get out of Iraq on the next available flight, John McCain, practically alone, said no, no—bad move. Surge. It seemed a suicidal position to take, an act of political bravery of the kind you don’t see a whole lot of anymore.

But that was—sigh—then. John McCain has changed. He said, famously, apropos the Republican debacle post-1994, “We came to Washington to change it, and Washington changed us.” This campaign has changed John McCain. It has made him inauthentic. A once-first class temperament has become irascible and snarly; his positions change, and lack coherence; he makes unrealistic promises, such as balancing the federal budget “by the end of my first term.” Who, really, believes that? Then there was the self-dramatizing and feckless suspension of his campaign over the financial crisis. His ninth-inning attack ads are mean-spirited and pointless. And finally, not to belabor it, there was the Palin nomination. What on earth can he have been thinking?

All this is genuinely saddening, and for the country is perhaps even tragic, for America ought, really, to be governed by men like John McCain—who have spent their entire lives in its service, even willing to give the last full measure of their devotion to it. If he goes out losing ugly, it will be beyond tragic, graffiti on a marble bust.

[Axel]

Unbelievable. This is why I abhor many organized religions. Who could honestly believe that crap or follow some guy who spouts that garbage. I wish there was a God so that he would smite this joker."In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." ~Thomas Jefferson

[kid_vidrio]

There is no question that if it were the McCain of 2000 he'd have my full support.
There's been a lot of water over the dam since then.
His ignoble embrace of W to win the RNC for his shot in '08 must have been the ultimate conundrum for him, and ultimately his supporters.

[Yelram]

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." ~Thomas Jefferson

The question is, when do we start calling liberalism what it is, the humanist religion, and therefore, when do we start questioning peoples opinions that are based on this ideology, and requiring proof.

[Axel]

Proof on what, Yelram?

[Yelram]

Proof on what, Yelram?

If I said "Jesus doesnt want abortions" You'd say "You cant base policy on the beliefs of a religion", but If liberals say "People who cant afford houses have the right to own one", or "Healthcare is a right", I cant say "You're basing that on your religion, show me proof of that".

[Axel]

Are you implying that I ever said anything like that? Of course you can base policy on religion: Iran and Saudis do.

Politics is about values: the only way to prove them are elections. If majority of American voters would prefer to cancel the separation of church and state, so be it. There might be some technical problems with the 1st amendment to the US constitution, but there's nothing you can't do.

[Smokestack]

Obama ads everywhere

http://images.politico.com/global/xbox2.jpg
A reader who spends too much time with his Xbox sends over many more images (http://www.politico.com/static/PPM106_obamascreenshots.html) of Obama ads embedded in video games.


(http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Obama_ads_everywhere.html?showall)


And then McCain asked, "What's a video game? Is it like those talkies I saw down at the nickelodeon?"

[Yelram]

Are you implying that I ever said anything like that? Of course you can base policy on religion: Iran and Saudis do.

Politics is about values: the only way to prove them are elections. If majority of American voters would prefer to cancel the separation of church and state, so be it. There might be some technical problems with the 1st amendment to the US constitution, but there's nothing you can't do.

Oh and in response to your rep comment, NO HE FUCKING HASNT.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=76933

A low resolution copy on a website THAT HAS BEEN DEBUNKED IS NOT PROVIDING PROOF. All he had to do was provide it, and this lawsuit would not be an issue, but again, they have silenced any sort of opposition to Obama.

[Smokestack]

Oh and in response to your rep comment, NO HE FUCKING HASNT.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=76933

A low resolution copy on a website THAT HAS BEEN DEBUNKED IS NOT PROVIDING PROOF. All he had to do was provide it, and this lawsuit would not be an issue, but again, they have silenced any sort of opposition to Obama.

Wow, you're fucking crazy.

[Yelram]

Wow, you're fucking crazy.

Apparently so is that lifelong democrat, but i'm sure its just partisan bickering right?

[Smokestack]

I see your World Net Daily and raise you a Huffington Post (is Hussein worse than Ayers?):

McCain Transition Chief Aided Saddam In Lobbying Effort (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/mccain-transition-chief-a_n_134595.html)

[Morfin]

Okay, Yelram, I have actually looked up, not just your cited article, but the underlying lawsuit. Phillip Berg may well be crazier than you are.

It is amusing that Berg complains that he is shocked that the DNC has attempted to dismiss the lawsuit against him. Hey, Berg: You sued them; of course they are going to try to dismiss the suit.

In looking at Berg's brief responding to the DNC's and Obama's dismissal motion, Berg alleges that Obama was born in two hospitals. His sources for this? I kid you not! He cites Wikipedia and then Wikipedia Italian. Nice. As part of his argument that Obama lost his U.S. citizenship because his mother moved to Indonesia, he cites to Indonesian law. Nice, again. Verrrry, persuasive.

Anyway, I have looked at Berg's actual brief -- not merely read some summary that, no doubt was written by a biased journalist. He is a nut.

And, as I posed to you in the Palin thread a few minutes ago. Do you really believe that if there was any merit to this argument that the DNC would have ever let Obama start a campaign, or face the embarrassment of having its candidate disqualified, if there was even one shred of actual truth to these allegations?

[smahoo]

sometimes logic gets lost in the best of us....forgive him morf, yelram has latched on to a sinking ship and is trying to do the honorable thing of going down with it

[VoxAngelikus]

I see your World Net Daily and raise you a Huffington Post[/URL]


I'll call your World Net Daily and Huffington Post, and raise you a campaign issue that no one is talking about: The coming Mega Civil War. (I figure since we're all delving into the lunatic fringe now would be a good time to voice my concerns)

[url]http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=133724 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/14/mccain-transition-chief-a_n_134595.html)

[CrazyCarl]

I'm worried about the Zombie War

[Limp]

I'm worried about the Zombie War
In this "Zombie War", do the Zombies battle each other or us?

[CrazyCarl]

us

[TheImpossibleMan]

I'm worried about the Zombie War
I'm not. I prepared for that shit.

[Limp]

FUCK?

THAT SHIT'S FO REAL!

Where does Obama stand? I bet he is a Zombie that the Zombie horde planted.... once president he will weaken the military making us venerable to a brain eating attack.

[CrazyCarl]

World War Z is a book written by one of the survivors and sent back in time to warn us

[Limp]

World War Z is a book written by one of the survivors and sent back in time to warn us
Then we can tell who won! Was the Author a Zombie or a Human?

[Mustard]

I'll call your World Net Daily and Huffington Post, and raise you a campaign issue that no one is talking about: The coming Mega Civil War. (I figure since we're all delving into the lunatic fringe now would be a good time to voice my concerns)

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=133724
Damn it... You can't call a bet, and then raise! Its called a string bet, and its against the rules. You should have just said "I raise you x and x on top of your a and b".

DOES NOBODY KNOW THE RULES?!?!

[VoxAngelikus]

When it comes to the coming Mega Depression and Mega Civil War, THERE ARE NO RULES MOTHERFUCKER!!!

EDIT: And also, it's not in that link, but you know that guy is already planning on 12/21/2012 as the date the Civil War starts.

[Mustard]

When it comes to the coming Mega Depression and Mega Civil War, THERE ARE NO RULES MOTHERFUCKER!!!

EDIT: And also, it's not in that link, but you know that guy is already planning on 12/21/2012 as the date the Civil War starts.
You forgot Zombie Apocalypse.

[Rover]

(Jesse) Jackson believes that, although "Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades" remain strong, they'll lose a great deal of their clout when Barack Obama enters the White House.
"Obama is about change," Jackson told me in a wide-ranging conversation. "And the change that Obama promises is not limited to what we do in America itself. It is a change of the way America looks at the world and its place in it."
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_o_jesse_knows_133450.htm?page=0
Well, hopefully, Obama will condemn these remarks as anti-semitic and not indicative of his beliefs. Those crazy Jews running the world through cunning manipulation.

[VoxAngelikus]

Well, hopefully, Obama will condemn these remarks as anti-semitic and not indicative of his beliefs. Those crazy Jews running the world through cunning manipulation.


Zionists and regular Jews are not one in the same. Modern Zionism is an international political movement that supported the creation of a Jewish homeland within the borders of Palestine. Today Zionists back the modern state of Israel. So when Jesse Jackson speaks about the Zionists, he's not being anti-semitic, he is speaking out against a political group.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist (first paragraph)


EDIT: And not for nothing, but if you want to talk conspiracy theory, do a little background reading on the Zionists. They are one of the shadiest groups around, and their influence on American policy has indeed been questionable.

[Rover]

I know what Zionism is, and I know what it is portrayed to be by the political Left. Being called a Zionist is a politically charged word with hidden meaning.

Strangely enough, Jackson and the government of Iran believe that Zionists control America. Also, anyone that has referred to NYC as 'Hymietown' has a pretty good chance at being an anti-semite.

Yes, yes those crazy Zionist Jews running the world with their crazy conspiracy theories. I'm partial to the theory that the Zionists caused the Holocaust to gain worldwide sympathy.

[vasili denisov]

f-YuyTXZs58

[Desperado]

f-YuyTXZs58


Holy shit...

[Mustard]

f-YuyTXZs58
Holy fuck that was terrible.

[freegood]

You forgot Zombie Apocalypse.

McCain didn't.
-u9Fiu5lu-w

[Archangel]

The problem with many American conservatives is that the world they'd like to preserve is the world of, oh, 1850 or so. Denying women the right to decide over their bodies, keeping guns to protect themselves from the taxman, demonising sex, wishing for an every-man-for-himself society with no government interference, racism, isolating themselves from an outside world they know nothing about, religious zealotry... It's got nothing to do with ignorance or stupidity, it's just that they never had to get out of the 19th century. And you wonder why pick up trucks, the quintessential vehicles of the rural conservative, are built on ladder frames...
These people are scared to death of the 21st, nay, the 20th century, and just want to turn the clock back.

America's cities, the evil coastal liberal élites, are leading the way into the future, while the heartland fervently wants to keep any progress from happening.

[Desperado]

The problem with many American conservatives is that the world they'd like to preserve is the world of, oh, 1850 or so. Denying women the right to decide over their bodies, keeping guns to protect themselves from the taxman, demonising sex, wishing for an every-man-for-himself society with no government interference, racism, isolating themselves from an outside world they know nothing about, religious zealotry... It's got nothing to do with ignorance or stupidity, it's just that they never had to get out of the 19th century. And you wonder why pick up trucks, the quintessential vehicles of the rural conservative, are built on ladder frames...
These people are scared to death of the 21st, nay, the 20th century, and just want to turn the clock back.

America's cities, the evil coastal liberal élites, are leading the way into the future, while the heartland fervently wants to keep any progress from happening.


Dont forget they want the bible taught in schools... but no other religion is allowed!

[Archangel]

Oh, right, no hermeneutical exegesis of the Bible whatsoever.

But that's more the 9th century.

[Da Raider]

keeping guns to protect themselves from the taxman, wishing for an every-man-for-himself society with no government interference,

I happen to strongly agree with those two and strongly disagree with all the others...

[Soup Nazi]

I support guns for self-defense (with limits) but I could never comprehend the rationale behind allowing guns to use against a "corrupt" government (or in this case, the Taxman!), or something along those lines. Government S.W.A.T. Team > Soup Nazi.

[Yelram]

The problem with many American conservatives is that the world they'd like to preserve is the world of, oh, 1850 or so. Denying women the right to decide over their bodies, keeping guns to protect themselves from the taxman, demonising sex, wishing for an every-man-for-himself society with no government interference, racism, isolating themselves from an outside world they know nothing about, religious zealotry... It's got nothing to do with ignorance or stupidity, it's just that they never had to get out of the 19th century. And you wonder why pick up trucks, the quintessential vehicles of the rural conservative, are built on ladder frames...
These people are scared to death of the 21st, nay, the 20th century, and just want to turn the clock back.

America's cities, the evil coastal liberal élites, are leading the way into the future, while the heartland fervently wants to keep any progress from happening.

And you say I'M nuts. Again, you know absolutely nothing about reality in America. Demonizing sex? You really think the "american conservative" Demonizes sex? And then you turn around and throw in racism and religious zealotry. You are really totally out of touch with what a conservative is.

[Genius]

I happen to strongly agree with those two and strongly disagree with all the others...
Anarchists are like zombie movie lovers. They always think they will survive in anarchy, and won't end up one of the initial zombies. But give everyone a gun and remove all government interference, and some tough ass bastards are dying in the first few hours.

[Archangel]

And you say I'M nuts. Again, you know absolutely nothing about reality in America. Demonizing sex? You really think the "american conservative" Demonizes sex? And then you turn around and throw in racism and religious zealotry. You are really totally out of touch with what a conservative is.

And you still can't read. I didn't say all conservatives were like this, I didn't say most conservatives were like this, I said MANY conservatives were like this. There are plenty of conservatives/Republicans in the US who are well at ease with the 21st century - and obviously I know nothing about them, since my uncle Russell isn't a Southern conservative, or anything.

FYI, I consider myself an ardent conservative - just that the status quo I'd like to preserve is in the 1990s, not the 1790s.

Demonising sex: Well, let's see. The Christian right is up in arms because a magazine about motherhood has a baby suckling on a tit on its cover. Half the country has nothing better to do than act as if Janet Jackson's ugly-ass, mostly covered nipple was the downfall of society. Oh, and in the minds of certain Republicans, getting blow jobs and lying about them is FAR WORSE than killing tens of thousands of people because of a lie.

Case closed.

Racism? Hmm. I hear Hannity and Coulter talk about getting rid of smelly filthy brown people in the Middle East all the time; I guess that that's not racist in any way, just as there are no people who talk about how they can't vote for Obama because he's a black man, of non-American origin, and how people with Arabic names are "terr'sts". No sir, never happened. Oh, and there is no institution like Bob Jones university where inter-racial dating was BANNED until the year 2000.

Religious zealotry? Yeah, the churches of those redneck homophobic Bible-thumpers have no congregation whatsoever. Jerry Falwell, good riddance to bad rubbish, preached before a dozen people, at most. There also isn't a strong retard creationist movement in America.

As I said, obviously not every American conservative is like this: I am sure, hell, I know that the majority are honourable people, in touch with modern times. But to deny that these things exist is the height of idiocy.


Yelram, face it, I'm right, you're wrong. On pretty much every issue we disagree on.

[FarEastFornicator]

So apparently Obama has a 10 point lead because people don't want to be racist in polls. Also, Obama is responsible for voter fraud with fradulent names on ballots from Mickey Mouse and the Dallas Cowboys offense ...says ABC and McCain.

[Insomniac]

NObama

[Axel]

So apparently Obama has a 10 point lead because people don't want to be racist in polls.A simple man with a simple explanation. I’m loving it!

Here's a simple recipe how to win US presidency: *****, PLEASE!

Also, Obama is responsible for voter fraud with fradulent names on ballots from Mickey Mouse and the Dallas Cowboys offense ...says ABC and McCain.At least ABC doesn't say that Obama is responsible for a voter fraud.

[Morfin]

Just thinkin' out loud here:

People can say all they want about Americans being racist and I agree that we have our share of racists. But, America has a black man who is seriously close to being elected President.

Meanwhile, Spain, provides us with this:

UEFA gives Atlético 2-game home ban for racism

NYON, Switzerland (AP) -- UEFA ordered Atletico Madrid on Tuesday to play its next two home Champions League games at a neutral venue because of violent and racist behavior by the club's fans during a recent match against Marseille.

The Spanish club was also fined $204,600.

"There were monkey chants against the nonwhite players throughout the game and there was also a problem with handicapped supporters who bought tickets and were not provided with adequate viewing," UEFA spokesman William Gaillard told Britain's Sky Sports News.

"There were really a number of serious problems."

Gaillard added that black journalists were also insulted by fans who broke into the press area.
Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/soccer/10/14/bc.soc.uefa.atleticorac.ap/index.html)

Americans have their share of racists, but on the racism scale, I think these Spanish fans win the day.

[smahoo]

I guess FIFA's Say No To Racism campaign hasn't quite caught on yet

[freegood]

Spanish people are notorious racists.

I don't think any European nation has ever had a black or brown head of state. It's one of the reasons why they see Obama as a peculiarity.

[Limp]

But, America has a black man who is seriously close to being elected President.
He is as much white as he is black.... fucking racist.

I believe the PC term for Obama is 'Oreo'. Black on the outside and white in the middle.

[freegood]

As long as he isn't an angry black man, no one should give a fuck.

One more month before you can keep it real, Barack

[Archangel]

The Spaniards are infamous as the biggest racists in all of Europe. They're like our Mississippi: Good at music, sports, and hating n*****s, and little else.

[Archangel]

(sorry Evil)

[Da Raider]

My Mexican Indian ancestors were raped by my Spanish ancestors. Hawt.

[Axel]

Just thinkin' out loud here:

People can say all they want about Americans being racist and I agree that we have our share of racists. But, America has a black man who is seriously close to being elected President.

Americans have their share of racists, but on the racism scale, I think these Spanish fans win the day.I agree with you. Every nation has its share of racists, even more, non of us is totally resistant against xenophobia – it’s a human feeling after all. It only depends how we handle that feeling.

Regardless how much we boost, Europe is far from being perfect. I’d consider the Obama’s election as a worldwide achievement, even if he’s “oreo”.

[Morfin]

From Ben Smith's blog on Politico today:

Voting for Obama anyway

I just got an astounding email from a Republican consultant I know well. He's a guy who's always thought Obama had a "glass jaw," and was always among those agitating for hitting Obama harder.

Recently, he conducted a focus group in an upper-Midwestern state, showing them the kind of ad he thought would work: A no-hold-bars attack , cut for an independent group, which hasn't aired.

I'm just going to reprint his amazed email about the focus group: Reagan Dems and Independents. Call them blue-collar plus. Slightly more Target than Walmart.

Yes, the spot worked. Yes, they believed the charges against Obama. Yes, they actually think he's too liberal, consorts with bad people and WON'T BE A GOOD PRESIDENT...but they STILL don't give a f***. They said right out, "He won't do anything better than McCain" but they're STILL voting for Obama.

The two most unreal moments of my professional life of watching focus groups:

54 year-old white male, voted Kerry '04, Bush '00, Dole '96, hunter, Nascar fan...hard for Obama said: "I'm gonna hate him the minute I vote for him. He's gonna be a bad president. But I won't ever vote for another god-damn Republican. I want the government to take over all of Wall Street and bankers and the car companies and Wal-Mart run this county like we used to when Reagan was President."

The next was a woman, late 50s, Democrat but strongly pro-life. Loved B. and H. Clinton, loved Bush in 2000. "Well, I don't know much about this terrorist group Barack used to be in with that Weather guy but I'm sick of paying for health insurance at work and that's why I'm supporting Barack."
I felt like I was taking crazy pills. I sat on the other side of the glass and realized...this really is the Apocalypse. The Seventh Seal is broken and its time for eight years of pure, delicious crazy....
Link (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/)

[smahoo]

can you imagine what's being said by people of this ilk who will vote for mccain....

[feith]

Obama won, so lets all get our panties out of a bunch.

[Pax Britannia]

I've got the day off tomorrow. As such i'm gonna be drinking a shot of vodka everytime McCain says "my friends" in the debate tonight.

I'll probably be too drunk to continue after 30 mins.

[Morfin]

Obama won, so lets all get our panties out of a bunch.

Someone set her alarm clock three weeks early.

Besides, I wear Depends.

[Morfin]

"Nancy Reagan falls, fractures pelvis"

Link (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/15/nancy.reagan.ap/index.html)

Cheney's abnormal heart rhythm returns

Link (http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/15/cheney.hospital/index.html)

Coincidence that this happened on the same day? Democratic plot to kill all old conservatives (and their widows)?

Bob Dole? I'd be careful, if I wuz you.

[kareyn01]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/waterboard-him.html


Sacramento County Republican leaders Tuesday took down offensive material on their official party Web site that sought to link Sen. Barack Obama to Osama bin Laden and encouraged people to "Waterboard Barack Obama" – material that offended even state GOP leaders. Picture at the link provided.

[taters]

Just thinkin' out loud here:

People can say all they want about Americans being racist and I agree that we have our share of racists. But, America has a black man who is seriously close to being elected President.

Meanwhile, Spain, provides us with this:


Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/soccer/10/14/bc.soc.uefa.atleticorac.ap/index.html)

Americans have their share of racists, but on the racism scale, I think these Spanish fans win the day.


We should do to spain what they did to america, invade it, occupy it, convert its local population, pillage and destroy their culture, and eventually leave them with nothing to remember us but our native language and various strains of smallpox.

[Archangel]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/waterboard-him.html


Sacramento County Republican leaders Tuesday took down offensive material on their official party Web site that sought to link Sen. Barack Obama to Osama bin Laden and encouraged people to "Waterboard Barack Obama" – material that offended even state GOP leaders. Picture at the link provided.

You stay classy, Sacramento.

I wonder, has any Democrat organisation ever talked about torturing/murdering Republican candidates? "But, but, they said that Bush caused a war!" Relativism ftw.

[Morfin]

Well, waterboarding isn't torture, so what's the big deal?






[/sarcasm]

[taters]

You stay classy, Sacramento.

I wonder, has any Democrat organisation ever talked about torturing/murdering Republican candidates? "But, but, they said that Bush caused a war!" Relativism ftw.

I think we should start. If it werent for the risk of political repercussions that would do the same to obama that is happening to mccain (scaring off moderates and independents), I would be among the first at rally's yelling for this. Republicans tend to only be scary in groups. Ive yet to meet one individually that would even bother to have a political discussion with me without coyfully dodging or trying to end the conversation (Are republicans really THAT afraid of black people...even when we arent robbing them but trying to have an intelligent conversation with them?)

[Rover]

You stay classy, Sacramento.

I wonder, has any Democrat organisation ever talked about torturing/murdering Republican candidates? "But, but, they said that Bush caused a war!" Relativism ftw.Yes. Both sides are guilty of this. There is no monopoly on idiot supporters. Burning and hanging Bush effigies were quite popular during the 2004 election and so were 'Kill Bush' T-shirts.

[redsox39]

Just thinkin' out loud here:

People can say all they want about Americans being racist and I agree that we have our share of racists. But, America has a black man who is seriously close to being elected President.

Meanwhile, Spain, provides us with this:


Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/soccer/10/14/bc.soc.uefa.atleticorac.ap/index.html)

Americans have their share of racists, but on the racism scale, I think these Spanish fans win the day.

Isn't this the country with the whole basketball team pulling their eyes "slanty" to make fun of China?

[redsox39]

Yes. Both sides are guilty of this. There is no monopoly on idiot supporters. Burning and hanging Bush effigies were quite popular during the 2004 election and so were 'Kill Bush' T-shirts.

and a video game where you can Kill Bush.

and a Movie where Bush is assasinated.

and countless books with a similar plot.


Please, check behind the Mac N Cheese before you start talking about no bologna.

[freegood]

Despite all the hate for the past 7 years, we went through a little under 8 years of Bush.

Can Obama fucking last 4?

[redsox39]

The problem with many American conservatives is that the world they'd like to preserve is the world of, oh, 1850 or so. Denying women the right to decide over their bodies, keeping guns to protect themselves from the taxman, demonising sex, wishing for an every-man-for-himself society with no government interference, racism, isolating themselves from an outside world they know nothing about, religious zealotry... It's got nothing to do with ignorance or stupidity, it's just that they never had to get out of the 19th century. And you wonder why pick up trucks, the quintessential vehicles of the rural conservative, are built on ladder frames...
These people are scared to death of the 21st, nay, the 20th century, and just want to turn the clock back.

America's cities, the evil coastal liberal élites, are leading the way into the future, while the heartland fervently wants to keep any progress from happening.

Dont forget they want the bible taught in schools... but no other religion is allowed!

Wow, At least we know for with 100% accuracy that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.

I guess then all Liberals are Crack using, wife killing, abortion as birth control, homosexual welfare whores who want to have sex with children.

Seriously, I can't see how you guys are any different than any other hate group out there.

The funny part is, you can't even see it.

Pathetic really. Just because your grandma and her church group oldies are conservative, that doesn't make them the blue print for the movement.

Hell, your favorite conservative on here, Clayton, doesn't believe in heaven. I am pro choice, and wish they would hurry up with the Stem cell research. I am also pro-legalizing drugs.

You really have no idea what you are talking about sometimes, and come off worse than Snobs.

[redsox39]

And you still can't read. I didn't say all conservatives were like this, I didn't say most conservatives were like this, I said MANY conservatives were like this. There are plenty of conservatives/Republicans in the US who are well at ease with the 21st century - and obviously I know nothing about them, since my uncle Russell isn't a Southern conservative, or anything.

FYI, I consider myself an ardent conservative - just that the status quo I'd like to preserve is in the 1990s, not the 1790s.

Demonising sex: Well, let's see. The Christian right is up in arms because a magazine about motherhood has a baby suckling on a tit on its cover. Half the country has nothing better to do than act as if Janet Jackson's ugly-ass, mostly covered nipple was the downfall of society. Oh, and in the minds of certain Republicans, getting blow jobs and lying about them is FAR WORSE than killing tens of thousands of people because of a lie.

Case closed.

Racism? Hmm. I hear Hannity and Coulter talk about getting rid of smelly filthy brown people in the Middle East all the time; I guess that that's not racist in any way, just as there are no people who talk about how they can't vote for Obama because he's a black man, of non-American origin, and how people with Arabic names are "terr'sts". No sir, never happened. Oh, and there is no institution like Bob Jones university where inter-racial dating was BANNED until the year 2000.

Religious zealotry? Yeah, the churches of those redneck homophobic Bible-thumpers have no congregation whatsoever. Jerry Falwell, good riddance to bad rubbish, preached before a dozen people, at most. There also isn't a strong retard creationist movement in America.

As I said, obviously not every American conservative is like this: I am sure, hell, I know that the majority are honourable people, in touch with modern times. But to deny that these things exist is the height of idiocy.


Yelram, face it, I'm right, you're wrong. On pretty much every issue we disagree on.

don't worry Yelram, he did edit his post. Honesty runs rampant with his type.

[taters]

And yet none of you debate the truth to Arch's claims. Defacto acknowledgment?

[Desperado]

Move along, nothing to see here....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081015/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_ads

RNC out of Wisconsin, Maine; focuses on red states
By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 5 minutes ago


WASHINGTON - The Republican National Committee is halting presidential ads in Wisconsin and Maine, turning much of its attention to usually Republican states where GOP nominee John McCain shows signs of faltering.
ADVERTISEMENT

The party's independent ad operation is doubling its budget to about $10 million and focusing on crucial states such as Colorado, Missouri, Indiana and Virginia where Democrat Barack Obama has established a foothold, according to a Republican strategist familiar with presidential ad placements.
Florida and North Carolina have also been in the RNC ad mix. Pennsylvania is the only Democratic leaning swing state apparently left in the party's ad campaign.
The shift in advertising resources suggests that the RNC has decided to focus on defending reliably Republican-voting states against Obama's onslaught of advertising. Flush with money, Obama is outspending the joint efforts of the Republican Party and the McCain campaign by more than 2-1.
While a pullout from Wisconsin is a significant strategic move, it does not represent a full GOP retreat from the state. McCain's campaign has notified Wisconsin stations that it planned to continue to buy air time through Oct. 26.
Like McCain, the RNC's independent ad operation has targeted Obama with critical ads.
The Republican Party has been helping McCain through various means. It had been spending more than $5 million a week on ads independently of the campaign. It also has teamed up with the campaign to run combined ads whose costs are split by the campaign and the RNC in certain situations allowed by federal election law.

[machwa]

This is the last straw... I'm voting Republican.

Obama Under Fire For Playing T-Ball During Vietnam

October 10, 2008



WASHINGTON—At a press conference on Monday, members of the Vietnam Veterans Alliance blasted Democratic nominee Barack Obama for his failure to serve in the Southeast Asian war that ended 33 years ago, alleging that during the conflict the candidate frequently engaged in games of T-ball. "While our boys were dying in Vietnam, Barack Obama was running around a little league field, laughing and having fun without a care in the world," VVA spokesman James Lowry said. "John McCain left his wife and three children behind and fought bravely, but I guess Sen. Obama decided that practicing cursive and learning how to ride a bike was just more important than defending his country in her hour of need. I bet he wasn't even able to point out Vietnam on a map." Lowry later speculated that if Obama had been sent over to fight in the conflict, he probably would have peed his pants and cried for his mommy as soon as he touched down in Saigon.http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/obama_under_fire_for

[heelsguy]

I've got the day off tomorrow. As such i'm gonna be drinking a shot of vodka everytime McCain says "my friends" in the debate tonight.

I'll probably be too drunk to continue after 30 mins.

or alternately, have a drink every time obama throws in an "umm". that would get you dead from alcohol poisioning "my friend".

[Archangel]

don't worry Yelram, he did edit his post. Honesty runs rampant with his type.

"My type" being? Intellectuals? Conservatives? Europeans? Asians? Your betters?

Oh, and I don't know why I'm even stooping to your level, redneck, but here's the edit history.

http://i34.tinypic.com/20po6l1.jpg

It may be due to the fact that I don't understand the language of people with sub-room-temp IQ's, but how does the fact that I added a paragraph and the word "certain" make me "dishonest"?

Rednecks: Ad hominem attacks. Sense optional. Arguments? What arguments?

You make me laugh...

[willydong]

Obama?
McCain?

Ron Paul 08.

i got registered and cast my vote today. i wanted to write in ron paul but i didnt have the guts... sob...

[Nosebuckle]

The problem with many American conservatives is that.... and just want to turn the clock back.

By many, do you mean majority, or significant?

[atoms]

Just a side note on the Ayers thing.....

He's a convicted Terrorist, right...that's why this is such a big deal.

Oh wait, the U.S. couldn't convict him (he was charged but not convicted) because they had to drop charges against him because of the FBI's methods.

So we are getting so upset about Obama knowing this guy, (or at least the Republicans are trying to get us upset), but the U.S. government couldn't even convict him.

And they always bring up that he has recently stated that he stands behind what he did. While he has not really repudiated what he did, his main thing he has said is "I wish we had done more" Which others have taken to mean he wishes he had bombed more, but which he has gone on to say he wishes we had done more to stop the Vietnam war, and by we he means the people of the U.S.

This man's methods were not good. He definitely pushed anti-Vietnam war sentiments, that were common at the time, beyond an ethical (and legal) boundary.

If Obama was having him as a prominent member of his campaign, or consulting him on education, that would be definitely questionable.

But if I was Obama, a young man running for the first time for any office, and my mentor said this guy is going to throw a fundraising party for you, I doubt I'd have the foresight to know that someone that had never been convicted as a terrorist would haunt me during my run for the presidency in 12 years.

Read about this Ayers guy yourselves
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ayers
He's not a saint....but he's not the antichrist either

[Archangel]

By many, do you mean majority, or significant?

What the fuck happened to reading comprehension in these past few weeks?

And you still can't read. I didn't say all conservatives were like this, I didn't say most conservatives were like this, I said MANY conservatives were like this. There are plenty of conservatives/Republicans in the US who are well at ease with the 21st century - and obviously I know nothing about them, since my uncle Russell isn't a Southern conservative, or anything.

[...]

As I said, obviously not every American conservative is like this: I am sure, hell, I know that the majority are honourable people, in touch with modern times. But to deny that these things exist is the height of idiocy.

[willydong]

What the fuck happened to reading comprehension in these past few weeks?

the same thing that happened to tolerance...

[Nosebuckle]

Point taken!

[Pollo]

where's Sink -- we need some unbiased play-by-play analysis of this shiznit coming up.

[Soup Nazi]

McCain shout-out to Joe the Plumber!

[Pollo]

I thought Obama said he won't raise taxes for people making under 250 grand -- I heard him say 200 grand this time, or was that just me?

[Stax]

I thought Obama said he won't raise taxes for people making under 250 grand -- I heard him say 200 grand this time, or was that just me?

It's just you, he said quarter million.

[Nosebuckle]

This is painful to watch

[willydong]

This is painful to watch

but i cant stop watching

[Pollo]

McCain getting feisty now saying he's no Bush.

[willydong]

mccain keeps putting obama on the defensive, obama needs to take the discussion back to mccain

[Hanover Fist]

mccain keeps putting obama on the defensive, obama needs to take the discussion back to mccain

He probably forgot to bring that particular cue card.

[Ace Rockola]

His campaign is more negative than mine! I have proof!

[willydong]

mccain looks like an arrogant prick with his snotty smirk

[Ace Rockola]

Are Joe the Plumber and Joe Six Pack the same guy?

[Fletch]

mccain looks like an arrogant prick with his snotty smirk

[The Batman]

McCain sounds like a fucking cry baby. "say your sorry! He didn't say he was sorry!"

[willydong]

nice quote

[Nosebuckle]

mccain looks like an arrogant prick with his snotty smirk

Oh yeah and Obama looks like fucking ****** Jim with...with that dark skin!!!

[willydong]

McCain sounds like a fucking cry baby. "say your sorry! He didn't say he was sorry!"

and mccain wont stay on the issues

[Pollo]

here come the ACORN and Ayers attacks!

[willydong]

i think obama is being to polite, he needs to drag mccain back into debating the issues

[Ace Rockola]

McCain needs to relax if he wants to win this thing. He looks like the crazy old neighbor that deflates your basketball for it going into his yard.

[willydong]

holy shit, see, obama is constantly defending

[Ace Rockola]

Why'd you choose your running mate? This is gonna be good.

[taters]

McCain smells of fear and desperation. I almost pity him.

[Soup Nazi]

This is really a question for everyone else living in a swing state, but where I live (Nevada) I can say with 100% certainty that EVERY McCain ad I have seen in the past month at least, has mentioned Bill Ayers. I was just wondering if it is the same elsewhere (which would support Obama's claim) OR if he is campaigning differently elsewhere?

Also, this McCain answer on Palin should be interesting to say the least.......

[Lone Wolf]

Oh, my god that was hilarious. Was McCain serious? He had a problem with the all this stuff then came around and said his campaign was all about taxes and such. Wow

[The Batman]

Since when did we know anything about Palin? And FUCKING STOP with the REFORMER BULLSHIT.

[The Batman]

its, sad that Obama can't say, "N*gga please. Palin wouldn't know what to do if she became president."

[willydong]

oooooo, so much for the hatchet

[willydong]

lol, iraq is united, yeah, like israel and palestine

[Ace Rockola]

I'm waiting for McCain to say Obama wants to tax global warming.

[willydong]

I'm waiting for McCain to say Obama wants to tax global warming.

im waiting for mccain to say he wants to deregulate global warming

[taters]

My god, McCain is falling apart.

[Lone Wolf]

I will say that I thought McCain came out well enough in this debate, but boy did he fall off fast

[Nosebuckle]

My god, McCain is falling apart.

So you're not even watching

[Ace Rockola]

I haven't heard either one of them cite a number.

[DjAg]

Obama blinks a lot when he's not talking... Bothering me.

[Mustard]

McCain praised Obama's eloquence? Man, that's just bad politics, unless you want to lose.

[willydong]

i've travelled south of our border, guess i'm an expert

[taters]

McCains shock at Columbia's INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN assassination and government corruption problems is a good indicator to his international awareness.

[Pollo]

Obama blinks a lot when he's not talking... Bothering me.

I remember him doing an interview on CNN once ... he literally blinked like 100 times in a minute.

[Soup Nazi]

McCain really should have said F-A-R-T instead. Lots of people are gonna get the wrong message!

[Mustard]

Obama is making a nice point about getting Detroit in gear, make more fuel efficient vehicles, and creating 5 million new jobs in the heartland of the US. That has to sound good to alot of people.

Also, nobody gives a fuck about Columbia, except for drug smugglers.

[Nosebuckle]

Only John McCain could make sense of Hugo Chavez, free trade, and terrorists

[The Batman]

McCain is losing badly. Before I wasn't sure, but this one, he has done horribly.

[Ace Rockola]

McCain is really hammering the tax thing. Even when the question has absolutely nothing to do with taxes.

[Yelram]

Obama is making a nice point about getting Detroit in gear, make more fuel efficient vehicles, and creating 5 million new jobs in the heartland of the US. That has to sound good to alot of people.

Also, nobody gives a fuck about Columbia, except for drug smugglers.

Yay, a government loan to another business!!

[DjAg]

McCain is blinking a lot too, but I think it's because he's afraid of crying on national television.

[The Batman]

Yay, a government loan to another business!!

Yay, a jackass not seeing the point. He is endorsing new energy sources which would help revitalize Detroit, not giving them money directly.

[Mustard]

Obama also making his healthcare pitch very nicely. People can buy into Federal gov't healthcare sounds pretty attractive, if you don't have any healthcare.

McCain talks about walk in clinics and obesity, citing employers reward employees who join health clubs? Interesting.

Drinking game for Joe the Plumber?

[Lone Wolf]

Fuck Joe the Plummer

[Ace Rockola]

Joe the Plumber is shitting himself right now.

[Pollo]

another shoutout to Joe the Plumber!

[willydong]

i love canada and england

[Fletch]

I know a Joe the Plumber, he saved my family quite a few times when we had plumbing problems. He also makes like $50 an hour...he's not exactly hurting for cash.

[Mustard]

ZERO?!?!?! Are you kidding me ******? Are you on drugs bitch?

Holy shit the look on McCain's face was absofuckinglutely priceless. Genuine shock.

[Soup Nazi]

I really hate Joe the Plumber. He can go fuck himself.

[Yelram]

Yay, a jackass not seeing the point. He is endorsing new energy sources which would help revitalize Detroit, not giving them money directly.
If its too good to be true, its a fucking lie. You just believe all of the bullshit he is telling you. He pretends to be on both sides of the issue.

[Nosebuckle]

Fuck Joe the Plummer

[willydong]

joe sixpack kix the shit out of joe plumber every weekend at the bar

[Lone Wolf]

Fuck Joe the Plummer

[taters]

Who the fuck is Joe? What the fuck is McCain talking about? This is crazy senility.

[Mustard]

Holy shit. Obama is hammering McCain on healthcare. Interesting... considering one guy is 48 and the other is 72.

Really should be the other way around, if you stop to think about it.

[Pollo]

vBookie on how many times Joe the Plumber gets mentioned on the next answers?

[Mustard]

Senator Governmet?