2008 Election - Offseason

[Claydon]

You know, if we want more money in this country, the feds could freeze spending!

[Tar Heel]

Actually I was complaining about the audacity to suggest that those who are making 6 figures are 1. rich and 2. it is our patriotic duty to pay more in taxes so that people like yourself can enjoy the benefits of my hard work.

I would venture that $250,000 a year is as a better definition of those in the upper class than McCain, who suggested it was those who make 5 million a year.

[Claydon]

I would venture that $250,000 a year is as a better definition of those in the upper class than McCain, who suggested it was those who make 5 million a year.

Have you ever been to california. 250,000 does not equal 250,000 in this state.

[kid_vidrio]

Have you ever been to california. 250,000 does not equal 250,000 in this state.
Born and raised there.
Was there this week.
True, in SF proper and the coast in general the cost of homes is high, but your sweeping generalization is as stupid as most sweeping generalizations are. $250,000 is most certainly $250,000 in CA.

[Tar Heel]

Have you ever been to california. 250,000 does not equal 250,000 in this state.

Yes. Pretty much everything is the same price except houses and Cigarettes. If you are making $250,000 a year anywhere in the US, that puts you somewhere between Upper Middle to Uper Class. Shit, if you make that much in Mississippi, you're straight up rich.

Have you ever left Cali? 99% of the people in the US that make $250,000 or more a year would be considered rich or at least upper class.

And I promise that there is nowhere that you would live in the US the line for rich/upper class would be anywhere close 5 million per year.

[Emjanss]

$250,000 a year is certainly upper middle class if that is your income from an employer.

But if you are the owner of a type S corporation, and your $250,000 "income" is really your pre-tax revenues and you have to use that "income" to pay a hundred and fifty thousand dollars or more in (deductible) business expenses then it really isn't gong to put you in the upper-middle class at all.

[kid_vidrio]

$250,000 a year is certainly upper middle class if that is your income from an employer.

But if you are the owner of a type S corporation, and your $250,000 "income" is really your pre-tax revenues and you have to use that "income" to pay a hundred and fifty thousand dollars or more in (deductible) business expenses then it really isn't gong to put you in the upper-middle class at all.
Putting deductible in quotes was appropriate since anyone who has run an LLC or S Corp knows that half those deductibles go to living anyway. It's a shell game but not like you had to pay out half your money in taxes.
C'mon now MJ! A little T&E, a little transportation, an out of state conference or two....

[Claydon]

250,000 in california will not buy you a house, our energy costs are MUCH MUCH higher than the rest of the country, we have one of the highest income tax rates. There is a reason why our budget is 115 billion dollars a year (course, we also have a 15 billion deficit and a dead locked legislature with regards to our 80 day late budget but that is for another post). To even look at a house (even in this market) starts around 390,000 dollars, christ gasoline was $5 a gallon in this state. So NO 250,000 does not equal 250,000 in California. My auto insurance for a nissan sentra WITH discounts is $1200 a year. My friend with an acura integra 2007 in Washington is $650 a year. Hmmmm.....

[leafsmack0]

250,000 in california will not buy you a house, our energy costs are MUCH MUCH higher than the rest of the country, we have one of the highest income tax rates. There is a reason why our budget is 115 billion dollars a year (course, we also have a 15 billion deficit and a dead locked legislature with regards to our 80 day late budget but that is for another post). To even look at a house (even in this market) starts around 390,000 dollars, christ gasoline was $5 a gallon in this state. So NO 250,000 does not equal 250,000 in California. My auto insurance for a nissan sentra WITH discounts is $1200 a year. My friend with an acura integra 2007 in Washington is $650 a year. Hmmmm.....

if you make 250k a year you can buy a house in California easy, lol.

[mongo]

250,000 in california will not buy you a house

you're so full of fucking shit. (http://chico.craigslist.org/reb/846188274.html)

[Hobnail_Boot]

Yeah, that is the problem I have with Obama's arbitrary policy to give families and individuals who make > $250K/year tax cuts. He should give the cuts based on cost of living in the areas they live. $250K goes a long way in Athens, GA, but not so much in Washington, DC.

[Hanover Fist]

you're so full of fucking shit. (http://chico.craigslist.org/reb/846188274.html)

You could buy 10 homes bigger than that for that price in Hillsdale.
On over 5 acres no less.
http://www.homes.com/Content/ListingDetail.cfm?City=HILLSDALE&State=MI&FirstRec=1&Radius=0&Bedrooms=&FullBaths=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PriceRange=&AmenitiesList=&PropType=%20&TotalRecs=2&PropIdList=66733858,76577886&PropId=66733858

[mongo]

You could buy 10 homes bigger than that for that price in Hillsdale.
On over 5 acres no less.
http://www.homes.com/Content/ListingDetail.cfm?City=HILLSDALE&State=MI&FirstRec=1&Radius=0&Bedrooms=&FullBaths=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PriceRange=&AmenitiesList=&PropType=%20&TotalRecs=2&PropIdList=66733858,76577886&PropId=66733858

i don't give a fuck. he said i couldn't buy a house for 250,000. what a tard.

[mongo]

wow. that's a charming little home. i think i'll give alice a call.

she's be happy to sell you her little wonderland.

[kid_vidrio]

You could buy 10 homes bigger than that for that price in Hillsdale.
On over 5 acres no less.
http://www.homes.com/Content/ListingDetail.cfm?City=HILLSDALE&State=MI&FirstRec=1&Radius=0&Bedrooms=&FullBaths=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&PriceRange=&AmenitiesList=&PropType=%20&TotalRecs=2&PropIdList=66733858,76577886&PropId=66733858
yeah, but people want to live in california.

[mongo]

i've never understood why people would pay millions to live in CA (aka the biggest suburb ever) when you could live in NYC for practically the same price.

[Hanover Fist]

yeah, but people want to live in california.

Mostly dumb people. I'm no huge fan of Michigan, but California would rank about 45th on a list of states where I'd like to live again. Right behind Virginia and New Jersey.

[kid_vidrio]

i've never understood why people would pay millions to live in CA (aka the biggest suburb ever) when you could live in NYC for practically the same price.
weather and lifestyle, though i moved from west to east and prefer it.

[mongo]

weather and lifestyle, though i moved from west to east and prefer it.

i grew up east and moved west after undergrad. i miss east like a bitch.

[BIG PIZZLE]

CNN has such a hardon for Obama.

[Pollo]

CNN has such a hardon for Obama.

not in comparison to MSNBC for the love they're giving him.

[kid_vidrio]

not in comparison to MSNBC for the love they're giving him.
I expect they anticipate his presidency would represent higher revenues, though I don't really know what their reasoning would be.

[Desperado]

So is the WSJ a liberal rag?


Wall Street Journal editorial board skewers McCain (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/19/wall-street-journal-editorial-board-skewers-mccain/)
Posted: 10:43 AM ET

From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-ticker-producer-alexander-mooney/)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/19/art.mccain.gi.jpg McCain said he would fire SEC chairman Cox.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

(CNN) — John McCain's recent comments on the economy (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/18/mccain-goes-on-the-attack-over-economy/) aren't just coming under fire from Barack Obama's campaign: arguably the country's most conservative editorial board said Friday the Arizona senator's recent "populist rifting" was downright "un-presidential."
A Friday Wall Street Journal editorial (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178318884054675.html?mod=todays_us_opinion) sharply criticized McCain for his recent condemnation of Christopher Cox, the chairman of the Securities and Exchange Committee. The Republican presidential nominee told an Iowa crowd Thursday Cox had "betrayed the public trust" and should be fired.
"Mismanagement and greed became the operating standard while regulators were asleep at the switch. The primary regulator of Wall Street, the Securities and Exchange Commission kept in place trading rules that let speculators and hedge funds turn our markets into a casino," McCain said.
Fact check: Does McCain oppose financial regulation (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/19/wall-street-journal-editorial-board-skewers-mccain/Does%20McCain%20oppose%20financial%20regulation)
In the bruising editorial, the Journal said those comments an "assault on Mr. Cox is both false and deeply unfair."
"It's also un-Presidential," the Journal said.

Specifically the editorial says many of McCain's allegations against the SEC were misleading — particularly his claim the SEC allowed "naked short selling" and eliminated the "uptick rule that has protected investors for 70 years.
According to the editorial, the SEC never condoned the practice of "naked" shorting, and has sought to eliminate the practice during Cox's tenure. The Journal also supports the SEC's decision to eliminate the uptick rule, calling it a "Depression-era chestnut" that "protected no one."
"In a crisis, voters want steady, calm leadership, not easy, misleading answers that will do nothing to help. Mr. McCain is sounding like a candidate searching for a political foil rather than a genuine solution," the editorial also said. "He'll never beat Mr. Obama by running as an angry populist like Al Gore, circa 2000."

[Rover]

So is the WSJ a liberal rag?The Wall Street Journal <3's Wall Street

[Yelram]

So is the WSJ a liberal rag?

The opinion section is, if its a liberal writing in it.

[cerebus]

Here's another good one:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/mccain-on-banking-and-health/

"Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking, would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation."

Money quote in bold.

[Claydon]

i don't give a fuck. he said i couldn't buy a house for 250,000. what a tard.

yah mongo....go live in fucking chico, where next to the slaughter houses? or how about the super max prison.

Nice find there buddy.

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Hmmmm....white peeps don't be likin' Obama.

http://news.yahoo.com/page/election-2008-political-pulse-obama-race



Poll: Racial views steer some white Dems away from Obama

By RON FOURNIER and TREVOR TOMPSON, Associated Press Writers
WASHINGTON (AP) — Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent," responsible for their own troubles.
The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.
Certainly, Republican John McCain has his own obstacles: He's an ally of an unpopular president and would be the nation's oldest first-term president. But Obama faces this: 40 percent of all white Americans hold at least a partly negative view toward blacks, and that includes many Democrats and independents.



More than a third of all white Democrats and independents — voters Obama can't win the White House without — agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.
Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream" speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.
"There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots," said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.
The pollsters set out to determine why Obama is locked in a close race with McCain even as the political landscape seems to favor Democrats. President Bush's unpopularity, the Iraq war and a national sense of economic hard times cut against GOP candidates, as does that fact that Democratic voters outnumber Republicans.
The findings suggest that Obama's problem is close to home — among his fellow Democrats, particularly non-Hispanic white voters. Just seven in 10 people who call themselves Democrats support Obama, compared to the 85 percent of self-identified Republicans who back McCain.
The survey also focused on the racial attitudes of independent voters because they are likely to decide the election.
Lots of Republicans harbor prejudices, too, but the survey found they weren't voting against Obama because of his race. Most Republicans wouldn't vote for any Democrat for president — white, black or brown.
Not all whites are prejudiced. Indeed, more whites say good things about blacks than say bad things, the poll shows. And many whites who see blacks in a negative light are still willing or even eager to vote for Obama.
On the other side of the racial question, the Illinois Democrat is drawing almost unanimous support from blacks, the poll shows, though that probably wouldn't be enough to counter the negative effect of some whites' views.
Race is not the biggest factor driving Democrats and independents away from Obama. Doubts about his competency loom even larger, the poll indicates. More than a quarter of all Democrats expressed doubt that Obama can bring about the change they want, and they are likely to vote against him because of that.
Three in 10 of those Democrats who don't trust Obama's change-making credentials say they plan to vote for McCain.
Still, the effects of whites' racial views are apparent in the polling.
Statistical models derived from the poll suggest that Obama's support would be as much as 6 percentage points higher if there were no white racial prejudice.
But in an election without precedent, it's hard to know if such models take into account all the possible factors at play.
The AP-Yahoo News poll used the unique methodology of Knowledge Networks, a Menlo Park, Calif., firm that interviews people online after randomly selecting and screening them over telephone. Numerous studies have shown that people are more likely to report embarrassing behavior and unpopular opinions when answering questions on a computer rather than talking to a stranger.
Other techniques used in the poll included recording people's responses to black or white faces flashed on a computer screen, asking participants to rate how well certain adjectives apply to blacks, measuring whether people believe blacks' troubles are their own fault, and simply asking people how much they like or dislike blacks.
"We still don't like black people," said John Clouse, 57, reflecting the sentiments of his pals gathered at a coffee shop in Somerset, Ohio.
Given a choice of several positive and negative adjectives that might describe blacks, 20 percent of all whites said the word "violent" strongly applied. Among other words, 22 percent agreed with "boastful," 29 percent "complaining," 13 percent "lazy" and 11 percent "irresponsible." When asked about positive adjectives, whites were more likely to stay on the fence than give a strongly positive assessment.
Among white Democrats, one third cited a negative adjective and, of those, 58 percent said they planned to back Obama.
The poll sought to measure latent prejudices among whites by asking about factors contributing to the state of black America. One finding: More than a quarter of white Democrats agree that "if blacks would only try harder, they could be just as well off as whites."
Those who agreed with that statement were much less likely to back Obama than those who didn't.
Among white independents, racial stereotyping is not uncommon. For example, while about 20 percent of independent voters called blacks "intelligent" or "smart," more than one third latched on the adjective "complaining" and 24 percent said blacks were "violent."
Nearly four in 10 white independents agreed that blacks would be better off if they "try harder."
The survey broke ground by incorporating images of black and white faces to measure implicit racial attitudes, or prejudices that are so deeply rooted that people may not realize they have them. That test suggested the incidence of racial prejudice is even higher, with more than half of whites revealing more negative feelings toward blacks than whites.
Researchers used mathematical modeling to sort out the relative impact of a huge swath of variables that might have an impact on people's votes — including race, ideology, party identification, the hunger for change and the sentiments of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's backers.
Just 59 percent of her white Democratic supporters said they wanted Obama to be president. Nearly 17 percent of Clinton's white backers plan to vote for McCain.
Among white Democrats, Clinton supporters were nearly twice as likely as Obama backers to say at least one negative adjective described blacks well, a finding that suggests many of her supporters in the primaries — particularly whites with high school education or less — were motivated in part by racial attitudes.
The survey of 2,227 adults was conducted Aug. 27 to Sept. 5. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.1 percentage points.
———
Associated Press writers Nancy Benac, Julie Carr Smyth, Philip Elliot, Julie Pace and Sonya Ross contributed to this story.

[Claydon]

You know, IF this guy loses, all we are going to hear is how racist america is because we didnt vote in a screaming liberal black man.

[TheImpossibleMan]

If you don't think the "no ****** will take office under my watch" factions will play a role, you're dumb.

[Rover]

You know, IF this guy loses, all we are going to hear is how racist america is because we didnt vote in a screaming liberal black man.I'm not sure, yet. It depends on how truthful the media wants to be. Because with 40% of the country self-identifying as Democrat and only 33% as Republican, it's going to be hard to spin a "All the racists are Republicans" message. So, I'm not sure if the media is going to be willing to saturate me with "all the racist Democrats, who voted for Strom Thurmond in 1948 and George Wallace in 1968, didn't vote for Obama in 2008," stories. Democrats being racist doesn't fit the current political narrative, so I doubt the media will cover it much.

[Feng]

You know, IF this guy loses, all we are going to hear is how racist america is because we didnt vote in a screaming liberal black man.

Meh, I don't think that argument would last... McCain will in no time at all sink this country to shit and finish off the job his homeboy Bush started...

Invading Iran and building up defenses around Georgia and Poland, the draft he will resurrect, further deregulation and corporate bail outs on my dollar, and his VPs pet projects of fighting for a pro-life legal system, and creationist-pentacostal education only system will be more likely water cooler topics than Republican racism.

Claydon, "Liberals" are people who generally like to reform current conditions. If you think the current conditions of American economics, foreign policy, education, health care, energy policies and civil liberty don't need reform - you are an idiot! :p I'd take a "screaming liberal" over an antique war-mongering zealot any day...

[Claydon]

Meh, I don't think that argument would last... McCain will in no time at all sink this country to shit and finish off the job his homeboy Bush started...

Invading Iran and building up defenses around Georgia and Poland, the draft he will resurrect, further deregulation and corporate bail outs on my dollar, and his VPs pet projects of fighting for a pro-life legal system, and creationist-pentacostal education only system will be more likely water cooler topics than Republican racism.

Claydon, "Liberals" are people who generally like to reform current conditions. If you think the current conditions of American economics, foreign policy, education, health care, energy policies and civil liberty don't need reform - you are an idiot! :p I'd take a "screaming liberal" over an antique war-mongering zealot any day...

Reform, you mean control? One man's reform is another man's faggy socialism. Although socialism seems to be quite chic at the moment.

[Rover]

If only it was national socialism...

[vasili denisov]

Reform, you mean control? One man's reform is another man's faggy socialism. Although socialism seems to be quite chic at the moment.
Yeah, like reaping huge taxes on oil companies, then giving the money to your citizens, rather than investing it in state projects. Then begging the federal government for money for said projects. Then, proposing that oil companies should be forced to sell their product, presumably at a lower price, to domestic consumers. Yes, there's one half-baked alaskan lass who looks so good, her socialist ideas get a pass.

What's the difference between Barry Goldwater and Sarah Palin? Lipstick. And fiscal conservatism. And keeping government small and out of private lives. Wait, I might be wrong. Goldwater might have used lipstick. He was running for president in the sixties, so who knows.

[freegood]

Those quibbling details about Alaska getting the most federal dollars per head doesn't matter Vasili.

Republicans want a Bush they can fuck.

Oil and coal? Of course, it's a fungible commodity and they don't flag, you know, the molecules, where it's going and where it's not. But in the sense of the Congress today, they know that there are very, very hungry domestic markets that need that oil first. So, I believe that what Congress is going to do, also, is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's Americans that get stuck to holding the bag without the energy source that is produced here, pumped here. It's got to flow into our domestic markets first.

hvUsdmqGYV8

[kid_vidrio]

Seems perfectly fungible to me. I'm not flagging no molecules.

[VoxAngelikus]

Here's John McCain giving a solid, firm answer. I definitely think he got my vote right here because I didn't think he could sound so eloquent

Q2y8dYwq01g

[cerebus]

re: poll on race

Fournier is a Republican water carrying fuckwit. I would take that whole article with a huge grain of salt. The Repubs are trying to raise the race issue to deflect away from McCain's shocking performance last week over the financial meltdown.

[Rover]

Fournier didn't conduct the AP/Yahoo poll. He just wrote the article.

[cerebus]

Fournier didn't conduct the AP/Yahoo poll. He just wrote the article.


I realize that, but it doesn't change my view of the article. As head of AP, he would have given the go ahead to commission the poll, as well as it's timeline and, as it's writer, the spin attached to it afterwards. It strikes me that the timing of this insertion of race is very convenient given the week that McCain has had.

On a different note, George Will and Sam Donaldson slammed McCain on ABC this morning, and they resurrected the age/health/fitness to lead questions.

[Feng]

Reform, you mean control? One man's reform is another man's faggy socialism. Although socialism seems to be quite chic at the moment.

Face it Mr. Powers... Freedom failed... So did capitalism...

By the way, don't spout this control nonsense... Funny how in your Republican views, everything seems just honky dory - even though the Republicans have been the outright most "controlling" party in this country's history, especially these past 8 years... They threw out the constitution!!! But you ignore all that because you're a republican lover. Then you rag on the Dems for being incompetent and weak, yet in the same breath you also argue they will "control" things... My son, you have what is called 'tunnel-vision' and you see only what you want to see, and it based only in the reality of Claydon. You also have a slight case of paranoia and borderline conspiracy theory delusionism.

Everybody knows the real power, the real control, belongs to the Skull and Bones secret society from Yale - which Bush happens to be a member of.

George W. Bush writes in his autobiography, "[In my] senior year I joined Skull and Bones, a secret society; so secret, I can't say anything more."

Take a listen to some George Carlin:
ktIECyzf4YM

[Claydon]

Face it Mr. Powers... Freedom failed... So did capitalism...

By the way, don't spout this control nonsense... Funny how in your Republican views, everything seems just honky dory - even though the Republicans have been the outright most "controlling" party in this country's history, especially these past 8 years... They threw out the constitution!!! But you ignore all that because you're a republican lover. Then you rag on the Dems for being incompetent and weak, yet in the same breath you also argue they will "control" things... My son, you have what is called 'tunnel-vision' and you see only what you want to see, and it based only in the reality of Claydon. You also have a slight case of paranoia and borderline conspiracy theory delusionism.

Everybody knows the real power, the real control, belongs to the Skull and Bones secret society from Yale - which Bush happens to be a member of.



Take a listen to some George Carlin:
ktIECyzf4YM


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c145/idexx/picard-headesk.jpg

[Grieves]

The real maverick talking about real change and what's wrong with our economy and the Fed's bullshit "bailout".

iskf4rk8-l0

[Desperado]

Pretty funny stuff...

Dems seize on McCain's 13 cars (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/21/dems-seize-on-mccains-13-cars/)
Posted: 05:50 PM ET

From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-ticker-producer-alexander-mooney/)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/21/art.mccaincars.ap.jpg Democrats are seizing on a report the McCains own at least 13 cars.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

(CNN) — Democrats eager to portray John McCain as out of touch with average Americans and as a flip-flopper seized on a report Sunday the Arizona senator and his wife, Cindy, own more than a dozen cars — including several foreign-made automobiles.
A Newsweek article (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160091) published on the magazine's Web Site Sunday said registration records show the McCains currently own 13 cars — two of which are foreign-made: a Honda and a Volkswagen. That appears to contradict the Republican presidential nominee's past statements (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0QRapvB9xc) he only buys cars made in America. (Cindy McCain also drives a Lexus and daughter Meghan owns a Toyota Prius, but neither are registered to the McCains.)
Newsweek also reported Barack Obama owns one car: a Ford Escape Hybrid.
In a quickly-arranged conference call organized by the Democratic National Committee, United Auto Worker Union President Ron Gettelfinger — an Obama supporter — said the registration records show McCain is not being truthful with Americans and undermining autoworkers.

Gettelfinger blasts McCain on conference call with reporters


"The last thing we need is a presidential candidate who undermines autoworkers, and these days it seems that John McCain is doing just exactly that," he said. "When he's in the Midwest, he tells voters he supports the industry, when he is in other states he brags about buying a foreign car, as he did with the Prius." (It is not clear if McCain or his daughter bought the Prius)
Gettelfinger also pointed to comments McCain made in an interview with Detroit TV station WXYZ, saying, "I've bought American literally all my life and I'm proud."
"That's really a nice campaign line," Gettelfinger said of the comments. "But it turns out that John McCain wasn't being straight with the people of Detroit, or the state of Michigan, or our country as a matter of effect," adding later, "The American auto industry and the American voters deserve a president who will be straight with them.”

[kid_vidrio]

yeah, but he was a war hero, and if the VC couldn't break John McCain, a couple of misleading quips from the absent minded geriatric never will.

[Soup Nazi]

I now have less respect for Obama because he only buys American.

TAKE THAT AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY, I THINK YOU SUCK!

but yeah, it probably is not the best idea to lie about something that will be easily found out during an election.

[heelsguy]

Pretty funny stuff...

whoop-dee-doo....2 out of 13 are "foreign"...ok...so 11 are domestic. looks to me like he has done a good job supporting the US auto industry.

Also, many Honda's are actually built in the USA...how do they know that his was not?

[Hobnail_Boot]

Ron Paul would have been the 1st Republican I'd have ever voted for for President.

[Desperado]

whoop-dee-doo....2 out of 13 are "foreign"...ok...so 11 are domestic. looks to me like he has done a good job supporting the US auto industry.

Also, many Honda's are actually built in the USA...how do they know that his was not?

Honda is an American Company? But really now painting Obama has an elitist, when he owns 1 car and McCain owns 13...

[CrazyCarl]

no, but most of them are assembled here by American workers

[Desperado]

no, but most of them are assembled here by American workers

More of that same article.
For the record, Honda has four major automobile and engine plants in the United States employing more than 25,000 Americans, according to its Web site (http://corporate.honda.com/america/facilities.aspx). Volkswagen is scheduled to open a plant in Tennessee in 2011 that is expected to employ 2,000 people, the AP reported in July.
Newsweek's report comes a month after McCain now-infamously could not name (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/21/dems-jump-on-mccains-house-gaffe/) how many houses he owned in an interview with Politico. The publication later reported he owns at least eight (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12700.html)properties.

[Hanover Fist]

Almost all Hondas sold in America are made in America. Not only that, but because they are foreign owned they are required to have a certain percent of their parts made in America as well to qualify as a domestic (otherwise they face severe import tariffs). The US auto companies don't have that restriction and therefore outsource a majority of the components off shore.

The plant I work at does a majority of our work for Honda and Nippo Denso, it is the 2nd largest employer in my county. The sale of Hondas directly affects the US autoworkers where I live contrary to what Mr. Gettelfinger says.
There are 3 major Honda assembly plants in the US employing 10's of thousands of US autoworkers.

Since 2005 more foreign branded autos were built in the US than were imported.
Toyota, Honda, Subaru, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, all have assembly plants in the US. There are also over 40 foreign tier one suppliers operating manufacturing facilities in the US.


I would venture to say that Honda is more American right now than Chrysler is. Although they are both foreign owned, Honda employs more people in the United States than Chrysler does.

Actually Chrysler is sort of American owned, although Daimler AG still controls 20% of their stock. They are owned by Cerberus Capital Management which is run by former Bush Sec. of Treasury John Snow and has Dan Quayle as a spokesman.

[Desperado]

I would venture to say that Honda is more American right now than Chrysler is. Although they are both foreign owned, Honda employs more people in the United States than Chrysler does.

So every time a Honda is sold the American auto worker gets a little more coin in his pocket. I wonder if they counted McCains family jet as transportation?

[kid_vidrio]

Buy foreign, support America!

[Hanover Fist]

Buy foreign, support America!

Define foreign.

Is it a US owned company that builds and assembles their vehicles in other countries or is it foreign owned companies that build and assemble them in the United States?

[Soup Nazi]

I prefer to buy cars that are owned and assembled in other countries.

Hanover brings up an interesting point though. Is a Chevy Malibu assembled in Mexico more of an American than a Hyundai Santa Fe assembled in Tennessee? I actually am leaning towards the latter, since both companies probably are owned by a consortium of international investors.

In any case, it still doesn't explain the Volkswagen McCain drives.

EDIT: Or nevermind, I guess maybe there are some Volkswagen's made in America? I give up.

[Hanover Fist]

It cracks me up when people say BUY AMERICAN when it comes to cars but then don't think twice about buying a Toshiba TV,Honda 4 wheeler, Sea-Doo jet ski, IKEA furniture or any of the other innocuous millions of foreign made/owned products.
Buy what the fuck you want to buy, from whatever or whoever you want to buy it from. Buy what will give you the best bang for your buck. The only thing that will make a company better is competition and if the US companies can't compete then they need to get better and make better products more efficiently or go out of business.

The only douchebags screaming to "Buy American!!!" are the assholes from the UAW that fucked themselves and the US consumers in the first place.

[mongo]

i think the whole "buy american" thing does nothing but increase the egocentric, us>all philosiphy that this country could just as soon do w/out. who gives a fuck where the cars are from?

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

It cracks me up when people say BUY AMERICAN when it comes to cars but then don't think twice about buying a Toshiba TV,Honda 4 wheeler, Sea-Doo jet ski, IKEA furniture or any of the other innocuous millions of foreign made/owned products.
Buy what the fuck you want to buy, from whatever or whoever you want to buy it from. Buy what will give you the best bang for your buck. The only thing that will make a company better is competition and if the US companies can't compete then they need to get better and make better products more efficiently or go out of business.

The only douchebags screaming to "Buy American!!!" are the assholes from the UAW that fucked themselves and the US consumers in the first place.

x2

nicely put

[kid_vidrio]

I sold my tahoe and bought a blazer.
Strictly convenience. My next car has a 100% chance of being a Toyota.
But the 'buy american' deal is not complete bullshit.
Though I am a huge proponent of global markets and cultural understanding, I also believe outsourcing industry has weakened our position in the world and left us with really shitty products.

[Hobnail_Boot]

I own a Ford Truck and I'm from Georgia. I voted for Gore, Kerry and plan to vote for Obama. How's that for non-stereotype?

[Claydon]

I own a Ford Truck and I'm from Georgia. I voted for Gore, Kerry and plan to vote for Obama. How's that for non-stereotype?

Oh you fit a stereotype...

A fag.

[The GWD]

How rude.

[Ace Rockola]

It cracks me up when people say BUY AMERICAN when it comes to cars but then don't think twice about buying a Toshiba TV,Honda 4 wheeler, Sea-Doo jet ski, IKEA furniture or any of the other innocuous millions of foreign made/owned products.
Buy what the fuck you want to buy, from whatever or whoever you want to buy it from. Buy what will give you the best bang for your buck. The only thing that will make a company better is competition and if the US companies can't compete then they need to get better and make better products more efficiently or go out of business.

The only douchebags screaming to "Buy American!!!" are the assholes from the UAW that fucked themselves and the US consumers in the first place.

I agree with you, but aren't the Big 3 also screaming buy American?

[Mustard]

Wow... There must be a humungous and problematic economic situation currently taking shape in the United States.

Want to know how I know? Its because for some reason everybody is wrapped up in ZOMG HOW MANY CARS JOHN MCCAIN OWNS and WHERE THOSE CARS WERE BUILT!!!

Democrats... pick. your. battles.

[URFloorMatt]

Outsourcing industry has nothing to do with "Buying American" though and everything to do with trying to stay profitable by escaping tax burdens, high labor costs, unions, regulation costs, environmental cost burdens etc etc etc.
If anything our shitty products are a result of the "Buy American" attitude.
If people continue to buy certain products strictly on the basis of whether they were made in America or not and not whether they are the best product for their money, then the incentive to make better products in America is undermined.
If a company knows you will buy their product regardless of how they make it simply because it has the "Made in the USA" label on it, why are they going to bother to invest to improve it?

I agree with this. My car is American and it's a piece of shit. Don't buy American.

In fact, the possibility that a majority of McCain's cars are apparently made in America frankly make me question his judgment. My first was American, and I'd have to go insane before I ever considered buying another.

[Desperado]

Interesting read, be warned.... the New York Times wrote this article. I know some are particular about their reading habits.


Loan titans paid McCain aide nearly $2 million


Officials: Campaign manager hired to help Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae

http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photo/_new/080922-davis-vmed-1230a.widec.jpg Justin Sullivan / Getty Images file
Rick Davis, campaign manager for Republican presidential candidate John McCain, speaks at a press conference at the at the River Center on August 31 in St. Paul, Minnesota.

By David D. Kirkpatrick and Charles Duhigg

[/URL]updated 1:56 a.m. CT, Mon., Sept. 22, 2008

Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations, current and former officials say.

Mr. McCain, the Republican candidate for president, has recently begun campaigning as a critic of the two companies and the lobbying army that helped them evade greater regulation as they began buying riskier mortgages with implicit federal backing. He and his Democratic rival, Senator Barack Obama, have donors and advisers who are tied to the companies.

But last week the McCain campaign stepped up a running battle of guilt by association when it began broadcasting commercials trying to link Mr. Obama directly to the government bailout of the mortgage giants this month by charging that he takes advice from Fannie Mae’s former chief executive, Franklin Raines, an assertion both Mr. Raines and the Obama campaign dispute.


[URL]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26831560/ (http://www.nytimes.com/index.html?partner=msnbcpolitics)

[Tar Heel]

This might be the stupidest page of posts yet.

News Flash!!!!

Most politicians are rich. Some are richer than others. Having money is nowhere near being a disqualification to be the president of the US. It's pretty fucking stupid that people keep bringing that up.

[Mustard]

http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/ Just read it all.

Zero percent (read: zero of the 1100 respondents) of Americans think the economy is getting better. 82% think the economy is getting worse. Also, (seein as the guy is still in charge technically it is relevant) a paltry 19% (less than 1 in 5) of Americans approve of Bush's overall job in office, while 76% (over 3 in 4) disapprove of Bush's overall job as president. Heckuva job Bushie.

So this is what happens when you mix "fiscal conservaitsm" with the worst president in the history of the United States? Oh, and isn't John McCain also a self proclaimed "fiscal conservative"? Oh goody...

Oh shit wait a second... sorry I forgot. Phil Gramm (the guy John McCain is most likely going to make Treasury Secretary if he wins) says we're in a mental recession. That sure is one helluva mental recession.

[Desperado]

Not a New York Times article!!!!!

Fact Check: Has Obama offered no plan for the financial crisis? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/22/fact-check-has-obama-offered-no-plan-for-the-financial-crisis/)
Posted: 01:25 PM ET
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/22/art.macfirst0922.ap.jpg Sen. McCain campaigned in Scranton, Pennsylvania Monday.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

The Statement: At a town hall meeting Monday, September 22, in Scranton, Pennsylvania, Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain hit his Democratic rival, Sen. Barack Obama, on the economic crisis. "Sen. Obama has declined to put forth a plan of his own," McCain said. "In a time of crisis, when leadership is needed, Sen. Obama has simply not provided it."
Learn the facts after the jump!

The Facts: Obama has said several times since the recent Wall Street meltdown that, in meeting with top economists, he was encouraged to not roll out a specific plan for fear of overly politicizing work of the Congress on a government bailout of financial firms. Recently, though, he has proposed several principles for the plan — including limiting pay for executives of businesses that are bailed out by the government and making sure the effort includes a detailed plan for the money to be repaid.
"In the coming days, I'll work closely to examine the details of the Treasury and the Fed proposal, and, as I do, I'll work to ensure that it provides an effective emergency response by including four basic principles that my economic advisers and I just discussed this morning," Obama said at a Friday September 19 news conference.
Obama has proposed a "Homeowner and Financial Support Act" that he said would provide capital to the financial system and "get serious" about helping people restructure their mortgages to help them stay in their homes.
Later on September 22, Obama gave a speech in Green Bay, Wisconsin, in which he laid out a basic, six-point plan for overseeing Wall Street that included cracking down on market manipulation and expanded oversight of businesses that borrow money from the government.
McCain's own campaign has rolled out a response to the crisis similar in its level of detail to Obama's. On Tuesday, September 16, McCain senior adviser Doug Holtz-Eakin said, "I don't think it's at this moment imperative to write down exactly what the plan has to be." Asked when the time for a specific proposal would come, Holtz-Eakin responded: "I think the moment when we write down a specific plan is the moment we send legislation from a McCain administration to Congress."
On Friday, September 19, also at a speech in Green Bay, McCain outlined plans that include a trust to help companies avoid bankruptcy and Wall Street reforms that he said would prevent financial firms from concealing poor business practices.
In a conference call less than two hours after McCain's September 22 statement, his top advisers said it was premature to say whether McCain supports a congressional bailout planbecause the details of that plan have not been finalized.

Verdict: Misleading. Obama has voiced specific ideas about the bailout plan and the level of detail he has proposed is not dramatically different than McCain.

[Tar Heel]

http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/ Just read it all.

Zero percent (read: zero of the 1100 respondents) of Americans think the economy is getting better. 82% think the economy is getting worse. Also, (seein as the guy is still in charge technically it is relevant) a paltry 19% (less than 1 in 5) of Americans approve of Bush's overall job in office, while 76% (over 3 in 4) disapprove of Bush's overall job as president. Heckuva job Bushie.

So this is what happens when you mix "fiscal conservaitsm" with the worst president in the history of the United States? Oh, and isn't John McCain also a self proclaimed "fiscal conservative"? Oh goody...

Oh shit wait a second... sorry I forgot. Phil Gramm (the guy John McCain is most likely going to make Treasury Secretary if he wins) says we're in a mental recession. That sure is one helluva mental recession.

Bush isn't really that fiscally conservative.

[Mustard]

His words, not mine. Bush is also a compassionate conservative, and a uniter, not a divider.

[Desperado]

The last statement cracked me up....


McCain camp criticism rife with errors


Ben Smith Mon Sep 22, 4:58 PM ET


Sen. John McCain’s top campaign aides convened a conference call today to complain of being called “liars.” They pressed the media to scrutinize specific elements of Sen. Barack Obama’s record.

But the call was so rife with simple, often inexplicable misstatements of fact that it may have had the opposite effect: to deepen the perception, dangerous to McCain, that he and his aides have little regard for factual accuracy.
The errors in McCain strategist Steve Schmidt’s charges against Obama and Sen. Joe Biden were particularly notable because they seemed unnecessary. Schmidt repeatedly gilded the lily: He exaggerated the Biden family's already problematic ties to the credit card industry; Obama’s embarrassing relationship with a 1960s radical; and an Obama supporter’s over-the-top attack on Sarah Palin when — in each case — the truth would have been damaging enough.
“Any time the Obama campaign is criticized at any level, the critics are immediately derided as liars,” Schmidt told reporters.

But as he went on to list a series of stories he thought reporters should be writing about Obama and Biden, in almost every instance he got the details wrong.
Schmidt criticized the press for the relatively sparse coverage of the fact that one of Biden’s sons, Hunter, is a registered federal lobbyist.
“His son is a lobbyist for the credit card and banking industry,” Schmidt said.
But Hunter Biden’s lobbying clients don’t include any banks or credit card companies. He did work, as a vice president and then as a consultant, for MBNA, a Delaware-based bank and credit card giant to which Biden had close ties. But he does not appear to have lobbied for the firm.
“Steve Schmidt lied — or just got it flat wrong," said Biden spokesman David Wade. "Hunter Biden has never — never — been a lobbyist for the credit card or banking industry."

Schmidt attacked Obama for his ties to William Ayers, who has spoken of his role in 1960s anti-war bombings committed by the Weather Underground.
"What we know for sure, and is beyond debate and argumentation is this: Senator Obama said that William Ayers is a guy that lives in his neighborhood. We know that that is a disingenuous and untruthful answer,” Schmidt said.
“Senator Obama began his political career in its early stages raising money at Ayers’ house,” he said.
Obama did hold a 1995 campaign event at Ayers’ house. It was not, however, a fundraiser, and Ayers did not contribute money to Obama’s first campaign, according to Illinois records.
Schmidt also complained of Obama backers’ attacks on McCain’s running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.
“As soon as Gov. Palin was nominated, one of … Obama’s chief campaign surrogates, [Florida Rep.] Robert Wexler, went out and accused her of being a Nazi sympathizer,” Schmidt said. “Where is the outrage to that aspersion on the part of some of the biggest newspapers in the country?”
But Wexler didn’t call Palin a Nazi sympathizer. He called former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan a Nazi sympathizer, and attacked Palin for allegedly having endorsed him.
“John McCain's decision to select a vice presidential running mate that endorsed Pat Buchanan for president in 2000 is a direct affront to all Jewish Americans. Pat Buchanan is a Nazi sympathizer with a uniquely atrocious record on Israel,” Wexler said.

(Wexler was apparently wrong: Though Buchanan claimed that Palin had supported him, she said she backed Steve Forbes in 1996 and 2000, and no evidence has emerged to the contrary.)
Asked about the series of errors, McCain aides could not provide evidence to back up Schmidt’s assertions.

One McCain aide, Michael Goldfarb, said Politico was “quibbling with ridiculously small details when the basic things are completely right.”
Another, Brian Rogers, responded more directly: “You are in the tank,” he e-mailed.

[redsox39]

http://americanresearchgroup.com/economy/ Just read it all.

Zero percent (read: zero of the 1100 respondents) of Americans think the economy is getting better. 82% think the economy is getting worse. Also, (seein as the guy is still in charge technically it is relevant) a paltry 19% (less than 1 in 5) of Americans approve of Bush's overall job in office, while 76% (over 3 in 4) disapprove of Bush's overall job as president. Heckuva job Bushie.

So this is what happens when you mix "fiscal conservaitsm" with the worst president in the history of the United States? Oh, and isn't John McCain also a self proclaimed "fiscal conservative"? Oh goody...

Oh shit wait a second... sorry I forgot. Phil Gramm (the guy John McCain is most likely going to make Treasury Secretary if he wins) says we're in a mental recession. That sure is one helluva mental recession.

I noticed how you left off the Approval Rating for congress...nice...

[Desperado]

I noticed how you left off the Approval Rating for congress...nice...

The great thing about Congress is their upcoming elections will really reflect that approval rating. You know, how republicans ads are highlighting their similarities with Obama.

[halfabubbleoff]

Congressional approval ratings have always been a joke.

Face it. Approval ratings are in the tank because there is so much infighting and partisan stone walling on both sides that nothing is getting done! I love that the Democrats are getting blamed for that. Nothing is being done now because no one is willing to compromise. The Democrats are in power and not backing down because of it. Their majority isn't large enough to get anything pushed through by brute force, so nothing gets accomplished.

Don't try to pin the blame on this on either party. They are all a bunch of spoiled brats who refuse to play nicely together, but neither one has the power to say "I'm taking my toys and I'm going home".

That is why Congress approval ratings are in the dirt.

Now, if only I had as good an argument for the Executive Branch......

[Rover]

Not really.

Most people think Congress sucks, but believe their own Congressman is awesome. The only way the real approval rating of Congress could be reflected in the vote is if we were allowed to vote for other peoples' Congressmen. Charlie Rangel I'm coming after you.

[Pharon]

Nothing is being done now because no one is willing to compromise. The Democrats are in power and not backing down because of it. Their majority isn't large enough to get anything pushed through by brute force, so nothing gets accomplished.
When it comes to government, this is a best-case scenario.

[halfabubbleoff]

Hate to say it, but Pharon is right with that one. Unfortunately, it still results in low approval ratings from the public at large that thinks things would be better if Congress just fixed all their problems.

[Morfin]

Check it out.


McCain seeks to delay debate to focus on economy
Sep 24 02:58 PM US/Eastern
By BETH FOUHY
Associated Press Writer
Write a Comment
NEW YORK (AP) - Republican John McCain says he's directing his staff to work with Barack Obama's campaign and the debate commission to delay Friday's debate because of the economic crisis.

In a statement, McCain says he will stop campaigning after addressing former President Bill Clinton's Global Initiative session on Thursday and return to Washington to focus on the nation's financial problems.

McCain also said he wants President Bush to convene a leadership meeting in Washington. Both he and Obama would attend the session.

NEW YORK (AP)—Republican presidential candidate John McCain met Wednesday with a panel of business executives to seek their opinions on the Bush administration's proposed $700 million bailout of U.S. financial markets.

McCain said he wanted to discuss "how we can make sure that the American people regain confidence on Main Street so that they can regain their confidence in Wall Street and in Washington."

McCain renewed his insistence that the bailout deal have greater transparency, oversight and CEO accountability to make it acceptable to voters.

"Most Americans feel very strongly this isn't their fault. It's Wall Street and Washington and the cozy insider relationships that have caused a great part of the problems," he said.

Flanking McCain were former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, his one-time rival for the GOP presidential nomination, and former eBay CEO Meg Whitman. Others in the meeting were John Chambers, CEO of Cisco Systems, and John Thain, the CEO of Merrill Lynch before it was acquired by Bank of America earlier this month for a much-reduced value.

A survey by The Associated Press found that Thain was the best-paid corporate executive in the U.S. in 2007, receiving approximately $83.1 million in salary and bonuses that year.

McCain has stated repeatedly that the bailout package should not allow large payouts, called "golden parachutes," for executives at failing firms like Merrill Lynch. Asked whether he believed the panel of business titans agreed with him on that principle, McCain said, "I think this group of people are as knowledgeable on the financial status of America as any group of Americans that I can find."

McCain planned to meet later Wednesday with foreign leaders in town for the opening of the United Nations General Assembly. His running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, was set to join him in a meeting with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili and Ukrainian President Viktor Yuschenko.

McCain was also scheduled to meet with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and with Bono, the lead singer of U2 and an activist on global poverty and AIDS. He was scheduled to tape an appearance on "Late Night with David Letterman."

McCain scheduled a session with Lady Lynn de Rothschild, a former supporter and fundraiser for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's presidential run who announced last week that she was supporting McCain. Link (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93D8TDO0&show_article=1)

Interesting political move: Ploy to avoid debate? If Obama says no, he looks soft on the economy or doesn't appreciate the severity? Is this just a pandering gimmick like McCain's idea of lifting the summer gas tax?

Let's discuss.

[Hobnail_Boot]

Check it out.

Link (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D93D8TDO0&show_article=1)

Interesting political move: Ploy to avoid debate? If Obama says no, he looks soft on the economy or doesn't appreciate the severity? Is this just a pandering gimmick like McCain's idea of lifting the summer gas tax?

Let's discuss.
McCain is trying to show "leadership" by urging Obama to follow him in suspending his campaign temporarily and delaying the debate until a later date. He's pinned Obama into a corner and now Obama will have to take some kind of action to look just as presidential. This is a test that Obama must not fail.

Edit: Now, with that being said, this might demonstrate McCain's inability to multitask.

[Pharon]

Just goes to show you what a wasted opportunity it was on McCain's part -- I think picking Romney as a running mate (instead of Palin) would be helping him tremendously right now.

[Hobnail_Boot]

Just heard on MSNBC that Obama might suggest (very soon) that Friday's debate should go on, citing that a president should be able to multitask. And that the only thing that has changed since yesterday is McCain's standing in the polls.

Edit: The spin is on. Joe Lieberman's on TV now saying that McCain is showing great "leadership" by suspending his campaign and suggesting to delay Friday's debate.

[The Batman]

http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/

[FarEastFornicator]

I have entered the spin zone. The foundations of our economy are strong aka the hard workers of America....support the troops! McCain 08!

[Mustard]

http://drudgereport.com/flash3cbm.htm

EXCLUSIVE: LETTERMAN MOCKS MCCAIN CANCELLATION
Wed Sep 24 2008 17:41:58 ET

David Letterman tells audience that McCain called him today to tell him he had to rush back to DC to deal with the economy.

Then in the middle of the taping Dave got word that McCain was, in fact just down the street being interviewed by Katie Couric. Dave even cut over to the live video of the interview, and said, "Hey Senator, can I give you a ride home?"

Earlier in the show, Dave kept saying, "You don't suspend your campaign. This doesn't smell right. This isn't the way a tested hero behaves." And he joked: "I think someone's putting something in his metamucil."

"He can't run the campaign because the economy is cratering? Fine, put in your second string quarterback, Sara Palin. Where is she?"

"What are you going to do if you're elected and things get tough? Suspend being president? We've got a guy like that now!"

Developing...
Funny and sad because it is true.

This is just more proof to add to the heap that John McCain should not be the next POTUS.

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

This is just more proof to add to the heap that John McCain should not be the next POTUS.

Yeah...but then I'm left with Obama, who is even a bigger POS than you are, Sinkster. At least you'll have extra money in your pockets with which to hit the buffets with. Bonus!

[Soup Nazi]

Just heard on MSNBC that Obama might suggest (very soon) that Friday's debate should go on, citing that a president should be able to multitask. And that the only thing that has changed since yesterday is McCain's standing in the polls.

Edit: The spin is on. Joe Lieberman's on TV now saying that McCain is showing great "leadership" by suspending his campaign and suggesting to delay Friday's debate.

I am awfully surprised that Lieberman was able to take time away from his busy schedule of blowing his new republican masters to actually make a statement.

But seriously, does anyone really listen to Lieberman anymore? I guarantee most Dems hate him, and I would be awfully surprised if any card-carrying republican could actually support the man who only agrees with his party on 1 issue basically.

[Deadhead Derek]

GOP convention is shorter 'cause of the hurricane, and McCain "Had to be there" Ike hits, and he is nowhere to be found.

Senate has been meeting on the fin-crisis for a few days, and the day that Obama pulls ahead in a few polls..." whoa, gotta go to DC, work to do."
like congress is meeting at night. ....looks like crap to me...
Do the debate, America has the right to compare.

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

But seriously, does anyone really listen to Lieberman anymore? I guarantee most Dems hate him....

Good reason to like him right there

[Mustard]

http://coloradoindependent.com/9151/oops-colorado-mccain-camp-sends-internal-e-mail-to-reporters


Oops! Colorado McCain camp sends internal e-mail to reporters (http://coloradoindependent.com/9151/oops-colorado-mccain-camp-sends-internal-e-mail-to-reporters)

9/24/08 3:32 PM

The regional spokesman for John McCain in Colorado accidentally sent the campaign’s internal talking points on the candidate’s plans to suspend his campaign to its entire Colorado media list, instead of a list of key volunteers, Wednesday afternoon, PolitickerCO’s Jeremy Pelzer reports (http://www.politickerco.com/jeremypelzer/2387/mccain-suspends-campaign-according-accidentally-sent-e-mail).

http://coloradoindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mccaintalkingpoints-232x300.jpg (http://coloradoindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/mccaintalkingpoints.jpg)
Click to enlarge the image.

The memo, titled “TALKING POINTS: SUSPENDING THE CAMPAIGN,” includes a list of points the campaign wants emphasized, and includes this warning from Kise: “Please do not proactively reach out to the media on this.”

McCain’s plans to stop campaigning — and a proposal to cancel Friday’s debate with Obama — had already been widely reported (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/24/mccain_suspending_campaign_ask.html?hpid=topnews) Wednesday afternoon.

Still, Kise was surprised at his e-mail snafu, as Pelzer reports:

Told by a reporter that the e-mail had been sent to him and others in the media, Kise said, “F*ck, tell me I didn’t send it to the wrong list.”

Kise said the talking points were meant for McCain volunteers.

Among the document’s “Topline Messaging”:

• To address our nation’s financial crisis, John McCain will suspend his campaign and return to Washington. He has spoken to Senator Obama and informed him of his decision and asked Senator Obama to join him. The campaign is suspending its advertising and fundraising.

Obama spokesperson Bill Burton, clearly, didn’t get Kise’s memo (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/obama_campaign_obama_made_firs.php). As TPM reports, Burton challenged the McCain campaign’s assertion that McCain “asked Senator Obama to join him,” saying it was the Obama campaign that first broached the possibility of joint action on the financial crisis:

“At 8:30 this morning, Senator Obama called Senator McCain to ask him if he would join in issuing a joint statement outlining their shared principles and conditions for the Treasury proposal and urging Congress and the White House to act in a bipartisan manner to pass such a proposal. At 2:30 this afternoon, Senator McCain returned Senator Obama’s call and agreed to join him in issuing such a statement. The two campaigns are currently working together on the details.”

Wednesday afternoon, Obama told a press conference (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/obama_dismisses_mccains_call_f.php) he rejected McCain’s unilateral decision to cancel Friday’s debate:

“I believe we should continue to have the debate,” he just said. “I believe it makes sense for us to present ourselves to the American people.”

“Obviously if it turns out that we need to be in Washington, we’ve both got big planes, we’ve painted our slogan on the side of them,” Obama also said. “They can get us from Washington to Mississippi pretty quickly.” The debate is set to take place in Mississippi.


Whoopsie daisy.

[Soup Nazi]

Good reason to like him right there

He does however also caucus with the Dems. So you should be conflicted.

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

He does however also caucus with the Dems. So you should be conflicted.

Sadly, yes.

[URFloorMatt]

http://drudgereport.com/flash3cbm.htm

[/B][/FONT]
Funny and sad because it is true.

This is just more proof to add to the heap that John McCain should not be the next POTUS.

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Is Olbermann a scheduled guest, or was he the replacement? If the latter, that's a pretty definitive "Fuck you" to the McCain campaign.

I think Letterman might be in the tank.

[heelsguy]

I have never seen such a circle-jerk the media is having with obama. it really is embarassing. My God they just melt in his presence. I almost hope he wins so that all the fucking pundits can't bitch for once about "a stolen election...stupid american's not picking the most-qualified...terrible electoral college system..blah blah blah"

[BIG PIZZLE]

John McCain is starting to look pathetic tho. He's running out of gimmics.

[Mustard]

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Is Olbermann a scheduled guest, or was he the replacement? If the latter, that's a pretty definitive "Fuck you" to the McCain campaign.

I think Letterman might be in the tank.
John McCain, to my understanding, was to be tonite's scheduled guest. Then, when McCain personally called Letterman to cancel, Keith Olbermann was called as a quick stand-in for McCain's now vacant guest spot.

Its kinda funny though... John McCain apologized for not appearing on Letterman because he has to go back to DC, but then for some reason does an interview with CBS's Katie Couric at around the same time he could have done the appearance on Letterman. What is also weird about this is that apparently McCain's interview with Katie Couric was very near where The Letterman show tapes at. Not to mention the fact that John McCain is also staying in New York until the morning of the 25th to fly to Washington then, which more or less nullifies McCain's rationale for cancelling on Letterman. Wouldn't it have made sense to just do Letterman's show, then do an interview with Katie Couric later? Would that not have been reasonable? Did this very simple and completely reasonable idea ever cross his mind? The mind reels at this inefficient usage of free media.

So to summarize: McCain abandons Letterman because he has to go back to DC, but then does an interview with Katie Couric, but is staying in NYC until tomorrow morning... Oh and then McCain gets lampooned by Letterman and Olbermann for shits and giggles.

[nuclearjew]

wut?

jYxTzDFofZQ

[ADD]

So McCain wants to postpone the debate to help the economy. Didn't he originally say the economy is fine?

[nuclearjew]

http://i33.tinypic.com/axjtbl.jpg

[Desperado]

http://i33.tinypic.com/axjtbl.jpg

fucking awesome.....

[freegood]

So McCain wants to postpone the debate to help the economy. Didn't he originally say the economy is fine?

That was before his ex-AIG boardmember/financial adviser told McCain that the economy was not fundamentally strong.

[nuclearjew]

I can't wait until they decide to postpone the elections, that is going to be awesome!

[Rover]

So to summarize: McCain abandons Letterman because he has to go back to DC, but then does an interview with Katie Couric, but is staying in NYC until tomorrow morning... Oh and then McCain gets lampooned by Letterman and Olbermann for shits and giggles.What is so hard to understand about McCain not wanting to do a comedy show, while the country is facing it's biggest economic crisis since WWII? So, you're in favor of McCain going on comedy shows to yuck it up. But you are opposed to Bush being disengaged during Katrina and (according to the Left) while finishing his meeting with elementary kids during 9/11.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.

[BIG PIZZLE]

It wouldnt have been so bad if he didnt actually do another TV interview. Was his Katie Couric interview that monumental? Coudnt he have done the same shit on letterman? These useless symbolic gestures are what pisses me off about politics. What has happened to John McCain? How does he plan on swooping in and fixing this? He coudnt fix his immigration bill and he had months to sell that.

[Rover]

His Couric interview was about the economy. And was far more substantial than doing a Top 10 List. You can't run for president during a crisis and do comedy shows on your down time.

His intention on "saving" this bill is getting Republicans to vote for it. Drudge ran a Flash this morning that said only 4 Republicans were willing to vote for this bill this morning. McCain has the ability to get them to vote for the bill.

[BIG PIZZLE]

This is a stunt dude. Why would he stop running ads?

[Rover]

Everything in politics is a stunt. He's not running ads because he's stopped campaigning. He's putting his 'Country First' and solving a legislative problem that affects everyone.

John McCain is talking Obama to political school right now and it's much needed after McCain's lousy week. Here's how this is playing out:

Worst economic crisis since WWII.
McCain: I'm stopping campaigning and going to DC to help get legislation passed.
Obama: "Call me, if you need me," but I'm going to keep on campaigning.

Obama actually said that Congress can call him if they need him. Great. I thought we already had a president who is completely removed from his responsibilites. If I were a citizen of Illinois, I'd be pissed that my senator is too busy with debate prep to go to DC to do actual work

[Deadhead Derek]

or a president reading 'My Pet Goat'......

[Hobnail_Boot]

wut?

jYxTzDFofZQ
Just in case teh black wins (or doesn't win).

[Axel]

Everything in politics is a stunt. He's not running ads because he's stopped campaigning. He's putting his 'Country First' and solving a legislative problem that affects everyone.

John McCain is talking Obama to political school right now...I just imagined a Think Tank tackling the US financial crisis: McCain, Palin, Rover and Yelram.

This just can’t go wrong, can it?

[Yelram]

I just imagined a Think Tank tackling the US financial crisis: McCain, Palin, Rover and Yelram.

This just can’t go wrong, can it?

Kinda like how Clinton and Janet reno "tackled" the housing problem in the 90s right? Because all those mean banks werent lending money to the little guy, just cause he was POOR!!!. DISCRIMINATION!!!

[Hobnail_Boot]

Kinda like how Clinton and Janet reno "tackled" the housing problem in the 90s right? Because all those mean banks werent lending money to the little guy, just cause he was POOR!!!. DISCRIMINATION!!!
All those "mean banks" had to say was, "No, we cannot loan money to people who cannot pay us back, regardless of their race. Period. If you liberals have a problem with that, then too bad."

[Axel]

Yelram, pills... okay?

[Morfin]

Ridicule Letterman as just a comedy show, but his point about why suspend the campaign just because you need to go back to Washington and, why not let Palin take up the slack is a valid point, albeit one voiced by a comedian.

Then, the fact that McCain lied about having to fly back to Washington is telling. Why not just tell Dave that he had to do the News with Couric and didn't have time for both? Why lie about it?

[Hobnail_Boot]

Ridicule Letterman as just a comedy show, but his point about why suspend the campaign just because you need to go back to Washington and, why not let Palin take up the slack is a valid point, albeit one voiced by a comedian.

Then, the fact that McCain lied about having to fly back to Washington is telling. Why not just tell Dave that he had to do the News with Couric and didn't have time for both? Why lie about it?
QFT

[Hobnail_Boot]

McCain's giving a campaign speech right now at the Clinton Global Initiative showing on the cable news channels (I'm watching MSNBC). I thought he suspended his campaign or was that to happen after his speech and when he has arrived in Washington?

[Desperado]

I wonder if McCain still thinks the economy is strong?

[freegood]

Everything in politics is a stunt. He's not running ads because he's stopped campaigning. He's putting his 'Country First' and solving a legislative problem that affects everyone.

The choice for his spare doesn't look like he put the interests of the Country First.

[halfabubbleoff]

This is great game of chess.

McCain has played his best card yet. He is being the maverick. While he puts his own aspirations aside and places the needs of the country first, Obama, engages in politics as usual and thinks of his arrogant aspirations first.

Obama is playing the stable authority figure. He is staying on the air, and keeping his commitments. The people need to hear from those who would lead them. They need to be reassured that the government is working for them, not behind closed doors.

I am dying to see which view gains more traction. I do think McCain did make a mistake by trying to delay the VP debate. It gives the impression that the campaign doesn't trust Palin unscripted yet.

[kareyn01]

Everything in politics is a stunt. He's not running ads because he's stopped campaigning. He's putting his 'Country First' and solving a legislative problem that affects everyone.

John McCain is talking Obama to political school right now and it's much needed after McCain's lousy week. Here's how this is playing out:

Worst economic crisis since WWII.
McCain: I'm stopping campaigning and going to DC to help get legislation passed.
Obama: "Call me, if you need me," but I'm going to keep on campaigning.

Obama actually said that Congress can call him if they need him. Great. I thought we already had a president who is completely removed from his responsibilites. If I were a citizen of Illinois, I'd be pissed that my senator is too busy with debate prep to go to DC to do actual work

First of all, McCain has said himself that he doesn't know as much about the economy as he should, and "needs to be educated". Also, if his presence was so vital, why the hell wasn't he there last week when everything shook out? Also also, McCain hasn't been in the halls of congress in SIX MONTHS, so don't tell me he's all about "Country First".

Its amazing that his "suspension of the campaign" and request to cancel or postpone the debate came as he was falling drastically in the polls, and immediately after it was discovered that he was lying about Rick Davis's relationship with Freddie Mac. That couldn't have had anything to do with the decision, though, I'm sure.

McCain has been all over the map on this issue in the past week, from saying the fundamentals of the economy are strong nine days ago, to yesterday saying that the economy is in a crisis. He was getting blasted by everyone from the usual suspects (Olbermann, Eugene Robinson) to the Wall Street Journal and George Will. That's your idea of taking Obama to political school?

[freegood]

Also, if his presence was so vital, why the hell wasn't he there last week when everything shook out?

I know you mentioned it already, but he was here giving this speech.

6reQLzgywzk

[Smokestack]

Everything in politics is a stunt. He's not running ads because he's stopped campaigning. He's putting his 'Country First' and solving a legislative problem that affects everyone.


You're right on this being political but you're wrong on him being the solution to this legislative problem:

It's not clear what, exactly, McCain is going to do in Washington. He doesn't sit on any of the relevant committees, and everyone is already deep in negotiations. Still, he's coming anyway. It doesn't make much logical sense. The only way to understand it is politically: In a presidential campaign, the surest sign that a candidate is playing politics on an issue is when he claims not to be playing politics on an issue. The only way for McCain to convince everyone that his intentions are 100 percent pure is for him to drop out of the race completely. A campaign doesn't end—and its distracting affects don't disappear—just because one candidate says so.

http://www.slate.com/id/2200867/

[Claydon]

You're right on this being political but you're wrong on him being the solution to this legislative problem:



http://www.slate.com/id/2200867/

However, McCain and Obama are the defacto leaders of their party, at least in name. And one of them will be the president come January, so I want both of these tards in on these meetings.

[Yelram]

All those "mean banks" had to say was, "No, we cannot loan money to people who cannot pay us back, regardless of their race. Period. If you liberals have a problem with that, then too bad."

Yes, because banks can tell the government to fuck off(/sarcasm). Ever hear the term FDIC??

[Desperado]

Maybe it was hiddon on a computer.


Has McCain read the bailout bill? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/25/has-mccain-read-the-bailout-bill/)
Posted: 01:00 PM ET

From CNN Associate Political Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-associate-political-editor-rebecca-sinderbrand/)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/09/25/art.mccain.dana.jpg CNN's Dana Bash was on Capitol Hill with Sen. McCain Thursday.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

(CNN) – As John McCain returned to Capitol Hill Thursday to support the passage of a package to address the nation’s financial crisis, Democrats spent the morning gleefully directing reporters to a statement from the Republican nominee Tuesday – three days after the bailout bill was introduced – that he had not read the text of the administration’s proposal.
"I have not had a chance to see it in writing. I have to examine it,” he told a Cleveland television station.
The McCain campaign said Thursday the Arizona senator had immediately been briefed on the elements of the plan – but could not say whether or not he had since read the three-page proposal, pointing instead to his meetings with congressional leaders and briefings with top officials.

[Hobnail_Boot]

Yes, because banks can tell the government to fuck off(/sarcasm). Ever hear the term FDIC??
Even the government can't force a bank to loan money to someone who can't pay the bank back. The government's role should be to ensure that banks do not deny capable borrowers because of race, etc. Somehow, those cut-and-dried principles got lost in the shuffle.

[Claydon]

All those "mean banks" had to say was, "No, we cannot loan money to people who cannot pay us back, regardless of their race. Period. If you liberals have a problem with that, then too bad."

Wells Fargo did this, and they were considered an under performing bank for a few years and their stock got raped for it. Now who is sitting pretty.

[Hobnail_Boot]

Wells Fargo did this, and they were considered an under performing bank for a few years and their stock got raped for it. Now who is sitting pretty.
If that's true, sometimes doing the right/smart thing comes with cost. That's life. Good for Wells Fargo for staying true to themselves. Now, they'll presumably reap the benefits, no?

[Claydon]

If that's true, sometimes doing the right/smart thing comes with cost. That's life. Good for Wells Fargo for staying true to themselves. Now, they'll presumably reap the benefits, no?

Well, they have been battered, just as the whole sector has, but their exposure was minimal to the sub prime disaster. When all is said and done BofA and WellsFargo will dominate the US banks. Run don't walk to your local credit unions!

[Hobnail_Boot]

Well, they have been battered, just as the whole sector has, but their exposure was minimal to the sub prime disaster. When all is said and done BofA and WellsFargo will dominate the US banks. Run don't walk to your local credit unions!
I'm glad Bank of America is not entangled in this mess. For the life of me, I don't know why anyone would get a mortgage that is not x years fixed. Fixed being the key term.

[Deadhead Derek]

WAMU is the next to go down it is said

[rc113943]

man i cant wait till tomorrow night

[Claydon]

WAMU is the next to go down it is said

jpmorgan is buying them out, check the news section.

[Deadhead Derek]

saw that after post.

[Smokestack]

However, McCain and Obama are the defacto leaders of their party, at least in name. And one of them will be the president come January, so I want both of these tards in on these meetings.

Fair enough and McCain seems to be really greasing the wheels:

McCain denounces all sides (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/McCain_denounces_all_sides.html?showall)

John McCain's campaign put out an extraordinary memo just now, denouncing a proposal that, by all accounts, was supported by all parties but the House Republicans, promising to return tomorrow, and casting the debate in serious doubt.
Says the memo from press secretary Brian Rogers: Despite today's news reports, there never existed a "deal," but merely a proposal offered by a small, select group of Members of Congress. As of right now, there exists only a series of principles, including greater oversight and measures to address CEO pay. However, these principles do not enjoy a consensus in Congress.
The memo -- after the jump -- also denounces "the plan that has been put forth by the Administration."
But McCain seems to be finding little traction for his presence on the Hill. An amazing AP graf (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/09/25/ap5473690.html): Even the House's Republican leader, John Boehner of Ohio, passed up a chance to praise McCain's leadership powers shortly before the two met in the Capitol at midday Thursday. Asked by reporters if McCain could help win House Republican votes for the proposed package, Boehner shrugged and said, "Who knows?"

Boehner later said in a statement that McCain "has a vital role to play in this process, and he has a history of working together with both parties to make things happen."

[Mustard]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/25/at-white-house-mccain-pla_n_129438.html


Inside an intense White House meeting over the financial crisis on Thursday, where nearly every key player came to an agreement on the outlines of the bailout package, Sen. John McCain stuck out. The Republican candidate, according to sources with direct knowledge, sat quiet through most of the meeting, never offered specifics, and spoke only at the end to raise doubts about the rough compromise that the White House and congressional leaders were nearing.

McCain's reluctance to jump on board the bailout agreement could throw the entire week-long negotiation into a tailspin. Sen. Chris Dodd, after leaving the White House, suggested on CNN that the tenuous process could be derailed by what he viewed as McCain's political motives.

"What happened here, basically, if you want an honest appraisal of the thing, we have been spending a lot of time and I am tired. I have spent almost seven straight days at this in trying to come out with a workout plan for our economy a rescue plan," said Dodd. "What this looked like to me was a rescue plan for John McCain for two hours and took us away from the work we are trying to do today. Serious people trying to do serious work to come up with an answer."

According to the source with knowledge of the White House gathering -- which featured both presidential candidates, congressional leaders and the President -- virtually ever key figure in the room, save McCain and GOP Sen. Richard Shelby, were in agreement over a revised version of Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's plan.

Towards the end, McCain finally spoke up, mentioning a counter-proposal that had been offered by some conservative House Republicans, which would suspend the capital gains tax for two years and provide tax incentives to encourage firms that buy up bad debt. McCain did not discuss specifics of the plan, though, and was non-committal about supporting it.

Paulson, however, argued directly against the conservative proposal. "He said that he did not think it would work," according to the source. At another point in the meeting, President Bush chimed in, "If money isn't loosened, this sucker could go down" -- and by sucker he meant economy.

ABC News reported (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5884701&page=1) that, following the meeting, Paulson "walked into the room where Democrats were caucusing...at the White House and pleaded with them 'please don't blow this up.'" But this story isn't incomplete, according to sources.

Democrats stayed talking in the Roosevelt room and Paulson approached them. After his comment, Speaker Pelosi and Rep. Barney Frank shot back that the real problem was with House Republicans. Paulson replied, "I know, I know," as he got down on one knee to lighten the mood. Pelosi joked back, "I didn't know you were a Catholic."
Well... its a good thing he rushed to DC! GO GET'EM McCAIN!

Wai, whats this now? You say he just sat there and was basically counter-productive?

Hooo boy... It appears the USS McCain Campaign is sinking like the Titanic. At least we know he will do the honorable thing and go down with his ship.

[Morfin]

Here is an interesting Op-Ed piece by David Brooks of the NY Times about McCain. Link
(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/opinion/26brooks.html?ref=opinion)
And before anyone dismisses it because it was in the NY Times, read it.

Thinking About McCain

I’ve been covering John McCain steadily for a decade. A few years ago, I worked on a book, which I foolishly never completed, on the U.S. Senate with McCain as the central character. So when I step back and think of McCain, even in the heat of this campaign, I still think of him first in the real world of governing, not in the show-business world of the election.

I think first of the personal qualities. He was an unfailingly candid man. When other politicians described a meeting, they always ended up the heroes of the story. But McCain would always describe the meeting straight, emphasizing his own failings with more vigor than his accomplishments.

He is, for a politician, a humble man. The most important legacy of his prisoner-of-war days is that he witnessed others behaving more heroically than he did. This experience has given him a basic honesty when appraising himself.

His mood darkened as the Iraq war deteriorated, but his accomplishments mounted. I don’t think any senator had as impressive a few years as McCain did during this span of time.

He lobbied relentlessly for a change of strategy in Iraq, holding off the tide that would have had us accept defeat and leave Iraq to its genocide. He negotiated a complicated immigration bill with Ted Kennedy. He helped organize the Gang of 14 and helped save the Senate from polarized Armageddon over judicial nominations.

He voted against opportunist bills like the pork-laden energy package and the prescription drug plan. He led a crusade against Jack Abramoff and the sleaze-meisters in his own party and exposed corrupt Pentagon contracts.

I could fill this column with his accomplishments during this period, and not even mention the insights. At a defense conference in Munich, I saw him diagnose and confront Russian hegemony. Week after week, I saw him dissent from G.O.P. colleagues as their party lost its way.

Some people who cover the campaign seem to have no knowledge of anything but the campaign, but I can’t get these events — which were real and required the constant application of judgment, honor and courage — out of my head.

Do I wish he was running a different campaign? Yes.

It’s not that he has changed his political personality that bothers me. I’ve come to accept that in this media-circus environment, you simply cannot run for president as a candid, normal person.

Nor is it, primarily, the dishonest ads he is running. My friends in the Obama cheering section get huffy about them, while filtering from their consciousness all the dishonest ads Obama has run — the demagogic DHL ad, the insulting computer ad, the cynical Rush Limbaugh ad, the misleading Social Security ad and so on. If one candidate has sunk lower than the other at this point, I’ve lost track.

No, what disappoints me about the McCain campaign is it has no central argument. I had hoped that he would create a grand narrative explaining how the United States is fundamentally unprepared for the 21st century and how McCain’s worldview is different.

McCain has not made that sort of all-encompassing argument, so his proposals don’t add up to more than the sum of their parts. Without a groundbreaking argument about why he is different, he’s had to rely on tactical gimmicks to stay afloat. He has no frame to organize his response when financial and other crises pop up.

He has no overarching argument in part because of his Senate training and the tendency to take issues on one at a time — in part, because of the foolish decision to run a traditional right-left campaign against Obama and, in part, because McCain has never really resolved the contradiction between the Barry Goldwater and Teddy Roosevelt sides of his worldview. One day he’s a small-government Western conservative; the next he’s a Bull Moose progressive. The two don’t add up — as we’ve seen in his uneven reaction to the financial crisis.

Nonetheless, when people try to tell me that the McCain on the campaign trail is the real McCain and the one who came before was fake, I just say, baloney. I saw him. A half-century of evidence is there.

If McCain is elected, he will retain his instinct for the hard challenge. With that Greatest Generation style of his, he will run the least partisan administration in recent times. He is not a sophisticated conceptual thinker, but he is a good judge of character. He is not an organized administrator, but he has become a practiced legislative craftsman. He is, above all — and this is completely impossible to convey in the midst of a campaign — a serious man prone to serious things.

Amid the stupidity of this season, it seemed worth stepping back to recall the fundamentals — about McCain today and Obama on some other day in the near future.

[halfabubbleoff]

Wow, I have to say that is one of the best McCain supports I have read.

Someone needs to put this guy in charge of McCain's media division. He could possibly win this for them!

Too bad the campaign will still try to run this as usual and let everything implode....

[Smokestack]

Well, McCain's going to debate now: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13970.html

No agreement on the bailout has been reached yet so it seems fair to not only call the suspension of his campaign a stunt but a failed stunt. That's ineptitude we can believe in.

[Smokestack]

First Palin, Then Campaign Suspension. What Now?
Slate predicts McCain's next 10 Hail Mary stunts.

1. Returns to Vietnam and jails himself.
2. Offers the post of "vice vice president" to Warren Buffett.
3. Challenges Obama to suspend campaign so they both can go and personally drill for oil offshore.
4. Learns to use computer.
5. Does bombing run over Taliban-controlled tribal areas of Pakistan.
6. Offers to forgo salary, sell one house.
7. Sex-change operation.
8. Suspends campaign until Nov. 4, offers to start being president right now.
9. Sells Alaska to Russia for $700 billion.
10. Pledges to serve only one term. OK, half a term.


(http://www.slate.com/id/2200927/)

[Rover]

There are 5 groups that need to agree to this bailout. Senate GOP/Dem; House GOP/Dem; President.

If the Democrats wanted to pass the Bush bailout plan they could do it right now. They have a big majority in the House and could easily get cloture in the Senate. But they are afraid to railroad it through because then it (the $700 billion giveaway that a big majority of voters oppose) would be on their hands alone, because the House GOP won't go for it.

After Obama screwed up the meeting by harshly criticizing the House GOP, I wouldn't be surprised if the following happens.

1. House GOP comes up with a new, more acceptable plan, one that doesn't give away $700 billion.
2. McCain supports it.
3. It passes because the Democrat Congress has no choice because they don't have the fortitude to oppose it.
4. McCain rails against the Bush-Obama $700 billion Wall Street giveaway.
5. Obama has been tied to a failed Bush proposal, and continues to fail at tying McCain to a Bush 3rd term
6. McCain reinforces his maverick image.

McCain might be a political genius.

[Tar Heel]

Anyone read this?

George Will, who last week was an outspoken conservative and supporter of McCain wrote this.




McCain Loses His Head


By George F. Will
Tuesday, September 23, 2008; A21

"The queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. 'Off with his head!' she said without even looking around."
-- "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"
Under the pressure of the financial crisis, one presidential candidate is behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high. It is not Barack Obama.
Channeling his inner Queen of Hearts, John McCain furiously, and apparently without even looking around at facts, said Chris Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, should be decapitated (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/18/AR2008091801655.html). This childish reflex provoked the Wall Street Journal to editorialize that "McCain untethered" -- disconnected from knowledge and principle -- had made a "false and deeply unfair" attack on Cox that was "unpresidential" and demonstrated that McCain "doesn't understand what's happening on Wall Street any better than Barack Obama does."
To read the Journal's details about the depths of McCain's shallowness on the subject of Cox's chairmanship, see "McCain's Scapegoat (http://www.wsj.com/article/SB122178318884054675.html)" (Sept. 19). Then consider McCain's characteristic accusation that Cox "has betrayed the public's trust."
Perhaps an old antagonism is involved in McCain's fact-free slander. His most conspicuous economic adviser is Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who previously headed the Congressional Budget Office. There he was an impediment to conservatives, including then-Rep. Cox, who, as chairman of the Republican Policy Committee, persistently tried and generally failed to enlist CBO support for "dynamic scoring" that would estimate the economic growth effects of proposed tax cuts.
In any case, McCain's smear -- that Cox "betrayed the public's trust" -- is a harbinger of a McCain presidency. For McCain, politics is always operatic, pitting people who agree with him against those who are "corrupt" or "betray the public's trust," two categories that seem to be exhaustive -- there are no other people. McCain's Manichaean worldview drove him to his signature legislative achievement, the McCain-Feingold law's restrictions on campaigning. Today, his campaign is creatively finding interstices in laws intended to restrict campaign giving and spending. (For details, see The Post of Sept. 17 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/16/AR2008091603321.html); and the New York Times of Sept. 19 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/us/politics/20donate.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=mccain%20and%20campaign%20finance&st=cse&oref=slogin).)
By a Gresham's Law of political discourse, McCain's Queen of Hearts intervention in the opaque financial crisis overshadowed a solid conservative complaint from the Republican Study Committee, chaired by Rep. Jeb Hensarling of Texas. In a letter (http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Letter2008917.pdf) to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, the RSC decried the improvised torrent of bailouts as a "dangerous and unmistakable precedent for the federal government both to be looked to and indeed relied upon to save private sector companies from the consequences of their poor economic decisions." This letter, listing just $650 billion of the perhaps more than $1 trillion in new federal exposures to risk, was sent while McCain's campaign, characteristically substituting vehemence for coherence, was airing an ad warning that Obama favors "massive government, billions in spending increases."
The political left always aims to expand the permeation of economic life by politics. Today, the efficient means to that end is government control of capital. So, is not McCain's party now conducting the most leftist administration in American history? The New Deal never acted so precipitously on such a scale. Treasury Secretary Paulson, asked about conservative complaints that his rescue program amounts to socialism, said, essentially: This is not socialism, this is necessary. That non sequitur might be politically necessary, but remember that government control of capital is government control of capitalism. Does McCain have qualms about this, or only quarrels?
On "60 Minutes (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/17/60minutes/main4456360.shtml)" Sunday evening, McCain, saying "this may sound a little unusual," said that he would like to replace Cox with Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic attorney general of New York who is the son of former governor Mario Cuomo. McCain explained that Cuomo has "respect" and "prestige" and could "lend some bipartisanship." Conservatives have been warned.
Conservatives who insist that electing McCain is crucial usually start, and increasingly end, by saying he would make excellent judicial selections. But the more one sees of his impulsive, intensely personal reactions to people and events, the less confidence one has that he would select judges by calm reflection and clear principles, having neither patience nor aptitude for either.
It is arguable that, because of his inexperience, Obama is not ready for the presidency. It is arguable that McCain, because of his boiling moralism and bottomless reservoir of certitudes, is not suited to the presidency. Unreadiness can be corrected, although perhaps at great cost, by experience. Can a dismaying temperament be fixed?

[Tar Heel]

George Will is one of those conservatives that really shaped alot of my conservative beliefs. He has always been conservative without seeming partisan. He is highly intelligent with the way he presents his stances and offers insight into the issues in less of a black and white fashion that I have become all to accustomed to when listening to most political talking heads.

[Smokestack]

There are 5 groups that need to agree to this bailout. Senate GOP/Dem; House GOP/Dem; President.

If the Democrats wanted to pass the Bush bailout plan they could do it right now. They have a big majority in the House and could easily get cloture in the Senate. But they are afraid to railroad it through because then it (the $700 billion giveaway that a big majority of voters oppose) would be on their hands alone, because the House GOP won't go for it.

After Obama screwed up the meeting by harshly criticizing the House GOP, I wouldn't be surprised if the following happens.

1. House GOP comes up with a new, more acceptable plan, one that doesn't give away $700 billion.
2. McCain supports it.
3. It passes because the Democrat Congress has no choice because they don't have the fortitude to oppose it.
4. McCain rails against the Bush-Obama $700 billion Wall Street giveaway.
5. Obama has been tied to a failed Bush proposal, and continues to fail at tying McCain to a Bush 3rd term
6. McCain reinforces his maverick image.

McCain might be a political genius.

Obama screwed up the meeting and McCain might be a political genius??? That it a very unique and special viewpoint you have of yesterday's proceedings. Most news sources are reporting something along the lines of this (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26campaign.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin): (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26campaign.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin%29:)

At the bipartisan White House meeting that Mr. McCain had called for a day earlier, he sat silently for more than 40 minutes, more observer than leader, and then offered only a vague sense of where he stood, said people in the meeting.
In a certain vein, you're right that what McCain did might have been very politically shrewd but not for the conquering hero fantasy you've conjured up in your head. Something more along the lines of this (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/McCains_day_in_DC.html?showall): (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/McCains_day_in_DC.html?showall%29:)


As they meet, a quick thought about McCain's gambit.
There's been a lot of discussion of whether it's brilliant or suicidal, whether his move to come off the trail and go to Washington will save his campaign or end it.
But I'm not sure that's the right framework. The move strikes me as a modest success, and it's best considered against the alternative. Had McCain not abandoned ship yesterday, the news from his campaign would have been twofold: his campaign manager's ties to Freddie Mac, which the campaign hasn't been able to convincingly deny; and his running mate's truly unsteady interview with Katie Couric. (The fact that McCain also sat down with Couric yesterday suggests his campaign knew it had to counterbalance that interview.)
Meanwhile, the candidate would have simply been swept along with President Bush's bailout, leaving no mark of his own on it, and saying nothing about the economy.
Now he's made himself a player, appeared as a leader, and shown he cares about the economy, even if his attempt to take credit for doing anything is doubtful and contested. And he's spent far less time talking about Davis and Palin.
That doesn't mean he "wins the week" or has vastly changed the narrative. But it may be better than the alternative.

[Mustard]

McCain wins debate (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/09/mccain_wins_debate.html)
Although the fate of tonight's presidential debate in Mississippi remains very much up in the air (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/25/AR2008092504603.html?hpid=topnews), John McCain has apparently already won it -- if you believe an Internet ad (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/images/26Sep_Friday_WSJ.JPG) an astute reader spotted next to this piece (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122238667352477103.html) in the online edition of the Wall Street Journal this morning.
"McCain Wins Debate!" declares the ad which features a headshot of a smiling McCain with an American flag background. Another ad spotted by our eagle-eyed observer featured a quote from McCain campaign manager Rick Davis declaring: "McCain won the debate-- hands down."
Here's the screenshot (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/images/26Sep_Friday_WSJ.JPG).


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/images/26Sep_Friday_WSJ.JPG
http://img148.imagevenue.com/loc724/th_59675_deweytruman12_122_724lo.jpg (http://img148.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=59675_deweytruman12_122_724lo.jpg)

Anyone? Anyone at all?

[Morfin]

<Crickets chirping, sounding loud in the stillness of the silent, dark night.>

[hatepoppy]

what the fuck is a truman and how the hell did it get beat by a decimal system, and why is that old fucko so happy about it?

[Genius]

Anyone who doesn't think the mainstream media does puff-pieces for the right should turn on ABC right now. Jesus. Literally, that's what they're making McCain out to be. Jesus.

[Genius]

I'm tired of hearing about Main Street. I don't live on fucking Main Street, I live on an Avenue. Fuck Main Street.

[Genius]

Eisenhower? D-Day? What the fuck?

[Genius]

Jim Lehrer is a fucking doosh.

[Snatch]

Why won't they talk to each other?

[Mustard]

I used to live on B street.

[Mustard]

FUNDAMENTAL!!!

[Genius]

I fundamentally fundamental, that fundamentally fundamentals are fundamentally fundamental, and also fundamental.

[hatepoppy]

give em time, theyll start bickering.

[Snatch]

I live on a Boulevard...

[Mustard]

McCain must sure love him some 60 million dollars worth of the gateway drug known as earmarks.

[hatepoppy]

fundamental is a fundamental part of fundamental politics, which is fundamental to fundamental government.

[Mustard]

932 million. FACT CHECK IT!

[Snatch]

McCain made like 18 to 20 snarky comments and jokes in 30 seconds.

[Mustard]

I want a paycheck every day...

[Genius]

If John McCain made a joke would any would laugh? No. The answer is no.

[Genius]

A sheriff AND a maverick? Holy Christ!

[Mustard]

McCain is the Sherrif. I'm calling him Sherrif from now on.

[Snatch]

im swigging for each "Fundamental."

[Genius]

Obama has a nice mocha skin tone going tonight. Make a brotha look smooth and silky.

[Pollo]

Why won't they talk to each other?

I don't know, but I'd like to see it ... and this also goes for the VP debate.

[Snatch]

McCain won't look a darkness in the eye.

[Mustard]

Ireland? I don't care about Ireland.

Sorry Jack Bauer.

[Snatch]

McCain = Fucking Obama in ass about business tax.

[Genius]

Don't point that fucking pudgy finger at me old man. And don't call me friend, either.

[Snatch]

shut the fuck up about 932 million.

[Mustard]

I'm swigging for My Friends and Hope and Change.

1 down!

[Snatch]

Obama is getting absolutely FUCKED on the taxation issue.

LOOK HOW HAPPY MCCAIN IS

[Pollo]

no tax increase for people making less than $250,000? I don't believe it.

[Snatch]

McCain is embarassing him about the taxation.

"I would like to hear Senator Obama's definition of rich."

<Silence>

Fuck You.

[Mustard]

I LOVE THIS!!!

[Snatch]

Obama is getting killed. Sorry.

[Pollo]

man with how this debate is going so far, the VP one should be fun.

[Snatch]

I thought this was supposed to be Nixon v. Kennedy.

[hatepoppy]

nuh-uhhhz!

[Genius]

Obama is getting killed. Sorry.
McCain is getting rolled. Absolutely rolled. Truth.

[hatepoppy]

sweet! we can bicker here too, but we dont have to be diplomatic!

youve got a 2 inch dick and a poopyface!

[Genius]

Spending is out of control because of Barack Obama! Not because of myself and George Bush! I'm lying! I'm lying! I'm lying to all of the American people!

[Snatch]

Excuse me? He destroyed him about Taxation. He destroyed him on spending.

He knows how to make a point instead of talking about 100 things at one time.

Obama just talked about 16 things, saying nothing at all.

McCain has his little anecdotes ready to fuck a bitch up.

I'm voting for Obama, but sorry, this is sad.

[Mustard]

What was that tongue flick from McCain?

[Snatch]

Doesn't matter if he's lying, if oyu can't call him out on it.

[Mustard]

Stop bickering kids. I'm trying to watch the old man try to kick the young whipper snapper off of his lawn.

[hatepoppy]

it seems like whichever side you were on is the one you think is doing better. almost like debatez dont change anyones mind!

[Genius]

Doesn't matter if he's lying, if oyu can't call him out on it.
If the American people blame Obama for the out of control spending and not the Bush administration, they're beyond saving.

[kid_vidrio]

Total non-sequitor, but if you make businesses pay for the bail out, isn't that something like taxing them and a real depressant on supply side?

[Snatch]

Point for Obama.

Spending Brain Freeze motherfucker.

[Mustard]

I use a hatchet for circumcisions. true story.

[Genius]

Obama with the Iraq jab. He needs to follow that with the Iraq right cross, and then the devastating Iraq uppercut.

[Mustard]

You can't get there from here, but i can get from here to there.

So there.

[Snatch]

Can Ron Paul come out and hit someone with a chair?

[Pollo]

You can't get there from here, but i can get from here to there.

So there.

you just blew my damn mind.

[kid_vidrio]

Personally, I'd go with teh Afghani head butt.

[Genius]

Can Ron Paul pick up a chair?

[Mustard]

Point for Obama on the tax cut priorities point he made.

[Mustard]

90% haymaker!

[Genius]

OMG ORGY!!!

[Snatch]

McCain sticking Taxation up his ass again.

ORGY OF SPENDING! YUM!

HERE COMES OBAMA.

MCCAIN WITH A "YUP"

[Snatch]

MCCAIN IS FUCKING REELING.

[hatepoppy]

id vote for ron paul in a second.

[Genius]

When did McCain oppose all of this? I think he's falling asleep.

[Mustard]

WTF?!?! John McCain isn't Miss Congeniality in the Senate?

Fuck me... I'm devestated.

[Snatch]

IM THE SHERIFF MOTHERFUCKER. NOT MISS CONGEALITY. THATS MY VP.

[Mustard]

Didn't McCain also have something to say about the markets and neighborhoods in Iraq before 2006?

Someone check this for me, I'm far too lazy to get the details.

[Genius]

Obama rope-a-doped him.

DOWN GOES MCCAIN! DOWN GOES MCCAIN!

AND OBAMA IS AS POISED AS CAN BE IN A NEUTRAL CORNER!!!

[Mustard]

Fundamental!

Swig it snatch!

[Snatch]

shut the fuck up with the fundamental difference.

6 years ago, who the fuck were you?

[Mustard]

Here comes Genius' aforementioned Iraq uppercut

[Genius]

I think McCain just committed to an exit strategy. There'll be a backtrack on that tomorrow.

[Snatch]

Nah, McCain is doing ok here.

WOW. Doing better than ok.

[hatepoppy]

haaaahhh

obama called mccain jim.

[Mustard]

And a zinger from McCain on the surge. Can Obama respond?

[Snatch]

He meant Lehrer.

[Snatch]

"AND YOU WERE WRONG"

[Snatch]

ONE HALF OF JULY AGO!

[Genius]

"John likes to pretend the war in Iraq started in 2007."

Ouch.

[The Batman]

I wish i knew what "winning" in Iraq meant.

[Snatch]

Incredible.
Fundamental.

[Snatch]

Is Obama remixing himself. I didn't know he couldn't speak without stuttering.

[Pollo]

Incredible.
Fundamental.

I lost count on how many times that word has been said.

[Snatch]

The difference, and it's important, is this.

Obama is dancing and juking and jiving well enough.

McCain sticks to his points that he makes and makes them well and over and over and over.

[Fletch]

I'm DVRing this while doing some other stuff. Is it worth watching?

[Snatch]

Seriously, Obama should STFU about the War. Not a good way to go. Stick to stuttering. That's his strongest point.

[Genius]

I'm DVRing this while doing some other stuff. Is it worth watching?
The election won't be won or lost tonight.

[Gary_Busey]

Who's doing better?

[Genius]

Who's doing better?
I'm biased. Obama is winning. But it's not a landslide, and he definitely has slipped up a few times.

[Snatch]

Who's doing better?

McCain. Mostly because of expectations.

Obama disappointing. At least me. I thought he could speak without putting me to sleep or stuttering.

[Genius]

Poll Question:

Who has the better disagreeing headshake with eyes pointed at the carpet when not speaking?

[Mustard]

What the fuck was John McCain just squinting at? Did Sarah Palin just flash her boobs at him from the crowd?

[Genius]

Devastating blow from Obama!

[Pollo]

how many times has Obama acknowledged McCain was right about various things?

[Genius]

Ok, I've watched enough. Guess who I'm voting for?

Obama.

SURPRISED?!?!?!?!?

[Mustard]

Uh oh... McCain really shouldn't be making mention of saying the word "bombing" and "Iran" in the same sentence. Lets see if Obama picks up on this.

[Mustard]

We all know what defeat is. What is winning in Iraq though?

[Snatch]

I have a bracelet. It's from Lance Armstrong.

[Snatch]

Lets be honest. Your guys' guy isn't doing as well as you had hoped.

[marquis]

how many times has Obama acknowledged McCain was right about various things?

not as often as he said he was wrong

[Snatch]

NETZEROSTAN?
COKEZEROSTAN?

[Genius]

Lets be honest. Your guys' guy isn't doing as well as you had hoped.
I expected him to reach over and rip McCain's esophagus out. I suppose anything less than that can be considered failure.

[The Dude]

i'm writing in ron paul. or maybe myself, i haven't decided yet.

[Mustard]

League of Democracies?

Who's gonna head that? Batman?

[Snatch]

League of Democracies?

Who's gonna head that? Batman?

"What an asshole, he wants to reach out diplomatically."