2008 Election - Offseason

[Soup Nazi]

Neither Biden or Palin should or will answer this question truthfully.

[Mustard]

Fuck... i missed that 1932 vote.

[Gary_Busey]

They're mavericks!

[BIG PIZZLE]

OMG she just winked at me!

[Ace Rockola]

Am I the only one that sees the irony in the term "Team of Mavericks"?

[BIG PIZZLE]

Am I the only one that sees the irony in the term "Team of Mavericks"?

Ironic or mavronic, you be the judge.

[Mustard]

its funny, i thought palin first was describing the obama ticket as lowering taxes and winning the war, and then the mccain ticket as raising taxes and ruining the economy.

anyone else?

[Mustard]

oh no... she didn't just steal Reagan's line did she?

[Mustard]

shout out! extra credit for third graders! so mavericky

[BIG PIZZLE]

What the fuck are you saying you dumb whore?

[Genius]

oh no... she didn't just steal Reagan's line did she?


Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall?

[Pox]

Shout out? Where did they find this dumb broad?

[BIG PIZZLE]

Palin wants to change the constitution?

[Mustard]

special needs children... ok

[TheImpossibleMan]

Oh my GOD this bitch has gone off the rails these last few questions. Her attempts at humor make me want to get a tan in a Nazi oven.

[Kerjack]

Palin wants to change the constitution?

Apparently. Power grabs before she is even in the seat

[Gary_Busey]

Oh my GOD this bitch has gone off the rails these last few questions. Her attempts at humor make me want to get a tan in a Nazi oven.
Go for it!

[Mustard]

standing in those heels for 90 minutes has to suck...

[BIG PIZZLE]

Great question.

[Desperado]

ouch... cheney sucks.

[Mustard]

biden just bodyslammed dick cheney. wow

[BIG PIZZLE]

Palin wants to be a cheney style vice-pres.

[willydong]

to joe biden, "why so serious?"

[BIG PIZZLE]

Biden is strong.

[Mustard]

alaska IS a huge state. just as i AM a huge guy...

[TheImpossibleMan]

Is 'exceptionalism' a word?

[willydong]

exceptionalism... this woman's verbage is superbage

[Gary_Busey]

*John Winthrop said.

[TheImpossibleMan]

Is 'exceptionalism' a word?
Apparently it is...

[willydong]

ouch! 35 yrs in office, hackin career politician

[Fletch]

"We're a nation of tolerance, and equal rights..."

Well, except for those gay people.

[dadaelus]

My sob story is bigger than yours...

[BIG PIZZLE]

Is 'exceptionalism' a word?

Yep.

[Mustard]

gaffe alert!

[Satan]

So...I thought Biden was supposed to kick her ass in this debate, what happened to that?

[willydong]

lookin for change... good, bad positive? or just in my couch?

[Mustard]

aw... no gaffes.

[Gary_Busey]

http://www.dragtimes.com/images/4973-1970-Ford-Maverick.jpg

[BIG PIZZLE]

More like cooch.

[Gary_Busey]

http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/actors_films_images/top_gun_maverick_tom_cruise_suited.jpg

[Muji]

i wonder if she knows how to spell potato?

and the only mavericks i care about are Dirk and Jason Kidd

[Mustard]

he (john mccain) is the man, that we need to leave!

first gaffe comes from.... Sarah Palin. uncanny.

[Gary_Busey]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Maverick_movie.jpg/433px-Maverick_movie.jpg

[Kerjack]

Everytime she says a buzz word like 'Maverick' my eye twitches

[Soup Nazi]

Wouldn't it generally be a bad idea, when you are running for the executive branch, to say that you have "caved" when shown budgets you disagreed with?

[Muji]

"up there in alaska " she sounds like a hillbilly

[BIG PIZZLE]

"Ive never had to compromise because we've always seemed to find a way to work together." WTF?

[willydong]

"up there in alaska " she sounds like a hillbilly
yeah, but she looks like a thrillbilly. is it just me or is she holding her own?

[BIG PIZZLE]

WHAT A FUCKING RETARD

[Mustard]

palin is talking about obama's tax policy in a favorable light... interesting. clear choice indeed.

[willydong]

um, when exactly did reagan get deified?

[BIG PIZZLE]

Way to play the fear card.

[willydong]

ah, invoking the holy homunculus. i feel better

[Kerjack]

yeah, but she looks like a thrillbilly. is it just me or is she holding her own?

Her style of speaking would be death for US interests when talking to any foreign leaders that are not already on board. Most would be insulted I think.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Vote for McCain or you wont have freedom.

[Muji]

yeah, but she looks like a thrillbilly. is it just me or is she holding her own?
probably just you and those who think Bush has been the greatest president ever

[Ace Rockola]

I love that the mics are still on, I've always wondered what they say

[Mustard]

palin's kid blends nicely into the carpet.

[Kerjack]

Paul > Biden > Obama > Mcain >>>>> Palin.

[willydong]

probably just you and those who think Bush has been the greatest president ever
seriously, she did relatively well. biden seemed tired and irritated

[Kerjack]

Oh sure shut off the mics how that there is head shaking!

[dadaelus]

yeah, but she looks like a thrillbilly. is it just me or is she holding her own?

She did not vomit blood or promise to march to Moscow on a road of bones so yah, she 'held' her own

[dadaelus]

seriously, she did relatively well. biden seemed tired and irritated
Shit. Who would not be irritated?

[Mustard]

my initial thoughts:

palin didn't fail hard.

biden won by a decent margin.

[willydong]

She did not vomit blood or promise to march to Moscow on a road of bones so yah, she 'held' her own
hehe, i wish she'd hold my own

[Muji]

seriously, she did relatively well. biden seemed tired and irritated
we must have watched different debates then

[dadaelus]

hehe, i wish she'd hold my own

Her viewpoint would put you in a prison for visiting this board. Guilt by association.

[willydong]

my initial thoughts:

palin didn't fail hard.

biden won by a decent margin.
agreed, but i'm always annoyed when politicians mention their many years of service which make me think they are part of the problem

[BIG PIZZLE]

seriously, she did relatively well. biden seemed tired and irritated

She did well but she lost. Biden was very strong. I was impressed.

[Desperado]

seriously, she did relatively well. biden seemed tired and irritated


I dont know wtf you were watching... Biden did a textbook job on how to debate... she did a horrible job answering the questions, but her tits looked nice.

[willydong]

Her viewpoint would put you in a prison for visiting this board. Guilt by association.
see, that post was a joke where i slyly switched... nevermind.

[willydong]

..., but her tits looked nice.
enuff said

[Fornicator]

I think Biden should have said "McCain" more.

What a stupid SOB. He would have done better just standing there looking at her chest.

God help us all.

[dadaelus]

Fuck, I spent the day listening to the news as they continued to ratcheted down my expectations. Mission Accomplished.

[BIG PIZZLE]

You're a retard.

[willydong]

geraldine ferraro has been mummified poorly... AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

[dadaelus]

I think Biden should have said "McCain" more.

What a stupid SOB. He would have done better just standing there looking at her chest.

God help us all.

To be honest I liked that. 'This is not about you ma'am but your boss.'

[heelsguy]

seriously, she did relatively well. biden seemed tired and irritated

i agree...and biden almost crying was a nice touch

[dadaelus]

Veep Debate poll:

http://forum.gorillamask.net/showthread.php?t=8323

[willydong]

i agree...and biden almost crying was a nice touch
billary taught him that one

[Black_Sun]

Is it just me, or did it seem like Palin only answered about half the questions? Seems like when she got a question she couldn't/wouldn't answer she'd start spouting off about something totally different. Anyone else notice that?

[Desperado]

Is it just me, or did it seem like Palin only answered about half the questions? Seems like when she got a question she couldn't/wouldn't answer she'd start spouting off about something totally different. Anyone else notice that?

Half is giving her too many...

[Pike Bishop]

Half is giving her too many...

Way too many.

[Daydreamer]

Basically she told the moderator, "Fuck you and your questions I want to talk about energy."

[Black_Sun]

I don't want to think what will happen if McCain get's elected and then dies in office. I wouldn't trust Palin to be president of the PTA book club let alone president of the country.

[Desperado]

This is a very good insight on what happened yesterday...
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/10/mccain_moves_out_of_michigan_w.html?nav=rss_email/components

McCain Moves Out of Michigan: What It Means

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/10/02/PH2008100203084.jpg

Arizona Sen. John McCain in Des Moines, Iowa earlier this week. Photo by Charlie Neibergall -- Associated Press
UPDATE, 6:12 pm: The McCain campaign held a conference call with political director Mike DuHaime and senior adviser Greg Strimple to argue that the Arizona Senator retains a viable path to 270 electoral votes.
Their map: Win six toss up states -- Florida, Missouri, North Carolina, Virginia, Indiana and Ohio -- that have traditionally favored Republicans and hold the solidly GOP states to get to 260 electoral votes. Then find 10 more electoral votes in some combination of Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.
"To say we are on defense is not true," insisted Strimple. "We are aggressively using our resources in states where we have to win."
Maybe. But the problem with that logic is it assumes McCain can hold those six red state tossups, which, in the case of Ohio, Colorado and Virginia (at least) looks to be a dicey proposition.
ORIGINAL POST
The news (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/02/mccain_pulls_out_of_michigan.html) that John McCain's campaign is abandoning its efforts in Michigan -- first reported by Jonathan Martin at Politico (http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/McCain_pulling_out_of_Michigan.html) -- is the latest in a series of negative developments for the Republican ticket over the last two weeks.
Michigan was widely regarded by the campaigns of McCain and Barack Obama as a central battleground -- perhaps the central battleground -- in the race for 270 electoral votes. Although Democrats have dominated in both presidential and other statewide contests in the Wolverine State over the last few cycles (the Democratic nominee for president has carried Michigan in each of the last four elections), Republicans believed that McCain was the candidate to change that.
McCain had demonstrated his appeal in Michigan during the 2000 primary season when he defeated George W. Bush in the state despite the fact that the then Texas governor had essentially ended McCain's chances a few days earlier in South Carolina. While McCain lost the Michigan primary this time around, it was to native son Mitt Romney and, therefore, not seen as a judgment on McCain's appeal to Michigan voters.
What then does McCain's decision to stop running ads in the state -- an all but certain concession that he cannot and will not win it in November -- tell us about his candidacy?
First, that the damage done to McCain at the national level by the bailout of Wall Street is being mirrored in the states too. Since the third week of September, five polls have been released in Michigan (http://www.pollster.com/polls/wi/08-wi-pres-ge-mvo.php); Obama had leads of seven, five, six, nine and thirteen points -- bringing his average overall edge in the state to 48 percent to 44 percent. "The numbers have been bad in Michigan for some time," a Republican official told the Post's Mike Shear.
But, it's clear from looking at the trend lines that polling was getting worse in the Wolverine State as the focus turned more and more to the economy. The economic hard times in Michigan are as bad as any in the country; the continued collapse of the auto industry (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gsz39lpYrNG7OiKs3FJt6jhV6NEwD93HTGBO1)has ground the Michigan economy to a virtual halt.

Second, the pull out from Michigan is a sign that McCain's decision to accept public financing for the general election has tied his hands somewhat. McCain has roughly $84 million to spend on the entire race while Obama, who opted out of public financing, is free to raise and spend whatever he can to win the White House.
What that means in practical terms is that Obama can pump money into a wider palette of iffy states and hope for results. While Obama has pulled back in places like Georgia and Alaska, his decision to continue to plunge huge amounts of money into Florida has, of late, begun to pay dividends as polls have shown him climbing into a lead in the Sunshine State (http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/state/article835288.ece#).
With a much more finite pot of cash, the prospect of continuing to dump millions into a state as large as Michigan that was looking more and more like a long shot was simply not a tenable proposition for the McCain operation.
Third, and this is the most potentially dangerous for McCain, the decision to pull out of Michigan may be painted by the media as a sign the entire campaign is going south. "In the 24 hour nonstop news world we live in, the act of pulling out will actually be harmful to his candidacy not only in Michigan but elsewhere," predicted one well-connected Republican operative familiar with the politics of the Wolverine State.
Does this latest development mean McCain has lost the race? Absolutely not. But, it does show -- as we have noted before -- that McCain has a very narrow and specific path to 270 electoral votes while Obama has an increasing wide number of avenues to get to the magic number.

[halfabubbleoff]

I'm glad it wasn't just me.

I thought Biden kept himself in check very well. You could see him chomping at the bit to go on the attack a few times, and strangled it off at the last minute.

I did want him to go after one point. All the recaps this morning say "Say it aint so, Joe..." as teh big quote of the night. Palin talked aobut the Dem ticket always looking backwards all night. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wsn't her big argument for McCain/Palin that they are the Mavericks with a long history of buckign teh system? Isn't that the same thing? Wasn't she saying "vote for McCain 200 instead of McCain08?"

[kareyn01]

So earlier today, Palin said on Fox News that "Obama has disqualified himself to be Commander-in-Chief". Really????!!!!!

She also says that she is "annoyed" that her answers to reporters questions have been criticized.

http://thepage.time.com/palin-on-fox-news-friday/

[Desperado]

So earlier today, Palin said on Fox News that "Obama has disqualified himself to be Commander-in-Chief". Really????!!!!!

She also says that she is "annoyed" that her answers to reporters questions have been criticized.

http://thepage.time.com/palin-on-fox-news-friday/


Hahaha she is the gift that keeps on giving...Thanks McCain! :)

[Kerjack]

I think this is the time where the networks polls start to show their true spin. Just after the debates and into the night MSNBC, CNN and Fox all have fairly similar numbers about who they thought won the debate. Now the next day those numbers are starting to pull apart, and I think that because most the people voting at this point did not actually watch the debates but only snippets along with comentary.

MSNBC has stayed pretty stable, Palin picking up a few points. Can't find CNN's but Fox's poll was 61/39 for Biden has slipped all the way down to 52/48 Biden.

Interesting? maybe not. Telling? maybe so.

[Desperado]

Someone put a muzzle on this lady....


Palin disagrees with McCain's Michigan decision (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/03/palin-disagrees-with-mccains-michigan-decision/)
Posted: 06:27 PM ET

From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-ticker-producer-alexander-mooney/)
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/10/03/art.mccainpalin.ap.jpg Palin wants to keep trying in Michigan.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

(CNN) – The McCain campaign decided this week that the battleground state of Michigan may be out of reach for the Republican ticket this year — a move that's drawn criticism from one prominent dissenter: VP nominee Sarah Palin.
In an interview with Fox News Friday the Republican vice presidential candidate appeared to be disappointed with the decision and said she still wants to take a stab at wining the state that hasn't voted for a Republican presidential candidate in two decades.
She also said she made her disagreement known to top campaign officials:
"I fired a quick e-mail and said, 'oh, come on! Do we have to call it there?' she said. " Todd and I would [be] happy to get to Michigan and walk through those plants [with] car manufacturers.
"We'd be so happy to get to speak with the people there in Michigan, who are hurting because the economy is hurting," she added. "Whatever we can do and whatever Todd and I can do in realizing what their challenges in that state are, as we can relate to them and connect with them and promise them that we won't let them down in the administration."
McCain aides told CNN Thursday Michigan increasingly appeared out of reach for the Arizona senator and the campaign had decided to divert its resources there to other key battleground states. The latest CNN poll of polls in Michigan shows Obama with an 8 point lead in the state where the nation's economic woes have hit hard.
But Palin maintained Friday she and McCain still have a shot there.
"I want to get back to Michigan, and I want to try," she said.

[freegood]

Because when Canada mounties pop their heads in Michigan airspace, what will not so qualified Obama do?

[vasili denisov]

The campaign is falling apart.

http://i35.tinypic.com/63wzfa.jpg

The campaign is falling apart.


Let’s be clear. We've observed no comparison between these ground campaigns. To begin with, there’s a 4-1 ratio of offices in most states. We walk into McCain offices to find them closed, empty, one person, two people, sometimes three people making calls. Many times one person is calling while the other small clutch of volunteers are chatting amongst themselves. In one state, McCain’s state field director sat in one of these offices and, sotto voce, complained to us that only one man was making calls while the others were talking to each other about how much they didn't like Obama, which was true. But the field director made no effort to change this. This was the state field director.


http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-st-louis-county-missouri.html

[vasili denisov]

I love this exchange of letters between Obama and McCain in 2006. I'll summarize:


Hi John, it's nice to be here and I look forward to us -


Fuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyoufuckyou.

FUCK. YOU.


Okay then, it was a pleasure meeting you and your flailing claws, Captain Insano.

Actual letters excerpts:

Dear John:

Thank you for inviting me to participate in the meeting yesterday to discuss lobbying and ethics reform proposals currently before the Senate. I appreciate your willingness to reach out to me and several other Senate Democrats to discuss what should be done to restore public confidence in the way that Congress conducts its business. The discussion clearly underscored the difficult challenge facing Congress.


Dear Senator Obama:

I would like to apologize to you for assuming that your private assurances to me regarding your desire to cooperate in our efforts to negotiate bipartisan lobbying reform legislation were sincere. When you approached me and insisted that despite your leadership's preference to use the issue to gain a political advantage in the 2006 elections, you were personally committed to achieving a result that would reflect credit on the entire Senate and offer the country a better example of political leadership, I concluded your professed concern for the institution and the public interest was genuine and admirable. Thank you for disabusing me of such notions with your letter to me dated February 2, 2006, which explained your decision to withdraw from our bipartisan discussions. I'm embarrassed to admit that after all these years in politics I failed to interpret your previous assurances as typical rhetorical gloss routinely used in politics to make self-interested partisan posturing appear more noble. Again, sorry for the confusion, but please be assured I won't make the same mistake again.


Dear John:

During my short time in the U.S. Senate, one of the aspects about this institution that I have come to value most is the collegiality and the willingness to put aside partisan differences to work on issues that help the American people. It was in this spirit that I approached you to work on ethics reform, and it was in this spirit that I agreed to attend your bipartisan meeting last week. I appreciated then - and still do appreciate - your willingness to reach out to me and several other Democrats.

http://obama.senate.gov/letter/060206-sen_obama_and_sen_mccain_exchange_letters_on_ethic s_reform/

[Hobnail_Boot]

I love this exchange of letters between Obama and McCain in 2006. I'll summarize:




Actual letters excerpts:



http://obama.senate.gov/letter/060206-sen_obama_and_sen_mccain_exchange_letters_on_ethic s_reform/
Silly Obama, always, you know, taking the high road.

[heelsguy]

obama had only been a U.S. senator since january 4, 2005.
he wrote that letter in feb 2006,
and announced his bid to be prez in feb of 2007...

maybe obama said one thing in private to McCain to get into the meeting/forum, but then decided to do what was best to gain favor with his fellow dem's--who he knew he needed support from if he was to run for office.

[kid_vidrio]

obama had only been a U.S. senator since january 4, 2005.
he wrote that letter in feb 2006,
and announced his bid to be prez in feb of 2007...

maybe obama said one thing in private to McCain to get into the meeting/forum, but then decided to do what was best to gain favor with his fellow dem's--who he knew he needed support from if he was to run for office.
that's a lot of supposition, when in black and white you can read one man is reasonable, the other going off like the spoiled, irrational hot-head he is.

[Pharon]

If I understand the content of that back-and-forth discussion correctly, this is the abridged version:

Obama: Hey John! I'd be interested in working on ethics reform with you guys.

McCain: Okay, great! How we typically do these things is that we get a bipartisan working group together first to sit down and come up with a rough outline of the issues. No sense in parading all this in front of the American people too early, you understand. It would just be a collosal waste of time. I know these things, because I've been a Senator since 1840.

Obama (in a letter): John, yeah -- here's the thing. I went back and the guys who are gonna help me get nominated for President -- well, they don't like your idea. They'd rather have us do all this stuff out in the open so that they can take advantage of every second of hearing time on CSPAN to show Americans how truly devoted the Democrats are with cleaning up the system. You know -- the one they fucked up in the first place, along with all the Republicans.

McCain (in a letter): Alright then. Go fuck yourself.

Obama (in a letter): What? I'm shocked at your unprofessionalism! And I really am, truly, deeply concerned about -- what was it again? Oh right, ethics reform. Anyway, I still think you're a swell guy and no hard feelings! (this letter is a matter of public record, right?)

[freegood]

^Pretty much

[Fornicator]

Fuck, I spent the day listening to the news as they continued to ratcheted down my expectations. Mission Accomplished.


Restated in a campaign ad:

Is the crater we're living in not deep enough? 6 years of a pointless war not long enough? International reputation as a bully not rough enough? Energy situation not fucked enough? Climate not warm enough? Education system not left far enough behind? Department of Justice not political enough? Business regulations not lax enough? Economy not far enough in the shitter?

Then vote of Palin and McCain - And Get More of the Same.

[Rover]

59% Would Vote to Replace Entire Congress
If they could vote to keep or replace the entire Congress, 59% of voters would like to throw them all out and start over again. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that just 17% would vote to keep the current legislators in office. Today, just 23% have even a little confidence in the ability of Congress to deal with the nation’s economic problems and only 24% believe most Members of Congress understand legislation before they vote on it.
...
Only half (49%) believe that the current Congress is better than individuals selected at random from the phone book. Thirty-three percent (33%) believe a randomly selected group of Americans could do a better job and 19% are not sure
...
When the Constitution was written, the nation’s founders expected that there would be a 50% turnover in the House of Representatives every election cycle. That was the experience they witnessed in state legislatures at the time (and most of the state legislatures offered just one-year terms). For well over 100 years after the Constitution was adopted, the turnover averaged in the 50% range as expected.
In the twentieth century, turnover began to decline. As power and prestige flowed to Washington during the New Deal era, fewer and fewer Members of Congress wanted to leave. In 1968, Congressional turnover fell to single digits for the first time ever and it has remained very low ever since.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/59_would_vote_to_replace_entire_congress

Promises, promises....we'll see who reelects their Congressmen to his 18th consecutive term, and then complains about politics as usual in Washington DC.

[Hanover Fist]

Restated in a campaign ad:

Is the crater we're living in not deep enough? 6 years of a pointless war not long enough? International reputation as a bully not rough enough? Energy situation not fucked enough? Climate not warm enough? Education system not left far enough behind? Department of Justice not political enough? Business regulations not lax enough? Economy not far enough in the shitter?

Then vote of Palin and McCain - And Get More of the Same.


But seriously, as long as a black muslim man doesn't get elected nothing else matters.

[BIG PIZZLE]

I cant wait for him to swear in..

I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute...

[BIG PIZZLE]

That would be the most awesome political moment I would have experienced in my life.

[Claydon]

It would be rather epic if this congress lost the majority of their incumbents and the house went republican. lulz

[Hobnail_Boot]

Promises, promises....we'll see who reelects their Congressmen to his 18th consecutive term, and then complains about politics as usual in Washington DC.
I'm among that 59%. I plan to vote against my 2 senators and my House representative. I told them not to vote for the FISA bill and that bogus "bail out" bill.

[Grieves]

It would be rather epic if this congress lost the majority of their incumbents and the house went republican. lulzEpically shitty. Regardless of how badly they want it, the democrats are fucking amateurs at expanding the government when compared with the republicans.

[Hanover Fist]

I'm among that 59%. I plan to vote against my 2 senators and my House representative. I told them not to vote for the FISA bill and that bogus "bail out" bill.

I would gladly trade my two senators for your two senators.

[leafsmack0]

Bruce Springsteen is the Boss. The Boss says to vote for Obama, I have no choice now.

[Desperado]

So with Palins latest comments regarding Obama... the Keating Five card has now been played.

Mike AllenSun Oct 5, 11:09 PM ET

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Monday will launch a multimedia campaign to draw attention to the involvement of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) in the “Keating Five” savings-and-loan scandal of 1989-91, which blemished McCain’s public image and set him on his course as a self-styled reformer.
Retaliating for what it calls McCain's “guilt-by-association” tactics, the Obama campaign is e-mailing millions of supporters a link to a website, KeatingEconomics.com, which will have a 13-minute documentary on the scandal beginning at noon Eastern time on Monday. The overnight e-mails urge recipients to pass the link on to friends.
The Obama campaign, including its surrogates appearing on radio and television, will argue that the deregulatory fervor that caused massive, cascading savings-and-loan collapses in the late ‘80s was pursued by McCain throughout his career, and helped cause the current credit crisis.
Obama-Biden communications director Dan Pfeiffer said: “While John McCain may want to turn the page on his erratic response to the current economic crisis, we think voters will find his involvement in a similar crisis to be particularly interesting. His involvement with Keating is a window into McCain’s economic past, present, and future.”


Rest of article
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/14302

[Hobnail_Boot]

The documentary "Keating Economics: John McCain and the Making of a Financial Crisis" will be released at noon Eastern on Monday, October 6th. Watch the preview: (http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/keatingvideo)

[kareyn01]

New polling in Virginia:

SurveyUSA
Obama 53, McCain 43

Suffolk University
Obama 53, McCain 41

With New Hampshire also tilting to Obama, it looks like its getting even farther away from McCain (which is obviously why they've rolled out the guilt-by-association tactics).

www.pollster.com

[Smokestack]

Promises, promises....we'll see who reelects their Congressmen to his 18th consecutive term, and then complains about politics as usual in Washington DC.

This is true. Voting as usual and complaining as usual are just as pervasive as politics as usual.

[kid_vidrio]

Where is Mr. Awesome with his fantasy drivel?

So, I'll just say, FUCK YOU generally, in the hopes of more controversy.

The truth is, there just isn't that much controversy here. McCain sucks, and though Obama is at best, OK, I'm just not seeing anyone able to put up a real argument that Obama should NOT be the next Prez.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Looks like John McCain needs to suspend his campain again.

[leafsmack0]

1aBaX9GPSaQ

[hatepoppy]

sticky pole erections 2008!

[CrazyCarl]

Ron Paul's not on my sample ballot, dammit

[leafsmack0]

Ron Paul's not on my sample ballot, dammit

vote bob barr lol

[Pharon]

vote bob barr lol
Bob Barr isn't qualified to carry Ron Paul's jockstrap.

[leafsmack0]

Bob Barr isn't qualified to carry Ron Paul's jockstrap.

just saying he is the only choice libertarians have. Unless they want McCain.

[Pharon]

Libertarians have no choices. Trust me.

I'm a libertarian and I approved this message.

[leafsmack0]

Libertarians have no choices. Trust me.

I'm a libertarian and I approved this message.

Yeah well that's the point.

[Smokestack]

Stay classy, Republicans (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/222324.php):
Who They Are, What They're About

10.06.08 -- 7:04PM
By Josh Marshall (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/joshmarshall.php)
So we have McCain today getting his crowd riled up asking who Barack Obama is and then apparently giving a wink and a nod when one member of the crowd screams out (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_who_is_the_real_barack.php) "terrorist."
And later we have Sarah Palin with the same mob racket, getting members of the crowd to yell out "kill him (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/06/in_fla_palin_goes_for_the_roug.html)", though it's not clear whether the call for murder was for Bill Ayers or Barack Obama. It didn't seem to matter.
These are dangerous and sick people, McCain and Palin. Whatever it takes. Stop at nothing.

[Genius]

Well, yes. With Obama leading in Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Virginia, McCain may only be able to win in the Electoral College through Obama's death. And even then, he may still get beat. He's down six percent nationally. He may get Reagan 84'd.

[Insomniac]

McCain may only be able to win in the Electoral College through Obama's death.

You act like that wasn't their plan all along.

[freegood]

buyVS9fRqkw
A terrorist slur is no shock in bumfuck NM with Palin spreadin her geewhiz message, but it took McCain by surprise.

At 14 seconds, a disgusted frown after hearing it.
On 18, something surprises him. Maybe the word clicks in his head.

[Pollo]

Well, yes. With Obama leading in Ohio, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Virginia, McCain may only be able to win in the Electoral College through Obama's death. And even then, he may still get beat. He's down six percent nationally. He may get Reagan 84'd.

wasn't McCain practically a good 5+ points up in Florida and Ohio about a week ago? for Obama to have taken the lead in Florida and be close or even tied in Ohio is pretty crazy.

I guess Palin did nothing to help McCain in the polls whatsoever.

[Mustard]

0298mCqdBOw&eurl=

amazing

[Pollo]

bwahahaha ... if O'Reilly ever finds that clip, I'm sure he'll meltdown when he brings it up on his show.

I'm worried, though ... we have an O'Reilly clone now. oh boy.

[Archangel]

So who isn't a terrorist these days, according to US conservatives?



Except US conservatives, of course (who in the past 8 years have been responsible for, oh, 20 times the civilian death toll of 9/11)...

[heelsguy]

So who isn't a terrorist these days, according to US conservatives?


Except US conservatives, of course (who in the past 8 years have been responsible for, oh, 20 times the civilian death toll of 9/11)...



this was beneath you. what the fuck is up with you lately?

we have an all-volunteer military here in the USA.

whereas those were civilians who were murdered on 9-11

[Archangel]

I meant the Iraqi civilians your government has on its conscience. Or do they not count? Right, they don't buy Chevys and eat at Burger King, so them dying is no big deal, I guess. Your conservatives re-elected a bunch of fucking murderers, and have the gall to call everybody who disagrees with them a "terrorist".

[Archangel]

The day that America realises that to the rest of the world, the invasion of Iraq was a far bigger crime than 9/11, maybe some sense will come back.

[heelsguy]

The day that America realises that to the rest of the world, the invasion of Iraq was a far bigger crime than 9/11, maybe some sense will come back.

well, that is a stupid statement.

[Pax Britannia]

The day that America realises that to the rest of the world, the invasion of Iraq was a far bigger crime than 9/11, maybe some sense will come back.

You really think that?

Even if the war in Iraq was conducted under false pre-tenses it still liberated a nation.

9/11 was just senseless slaughter.

[Archangel]

well, that is a stupid statement.

Why, are 3,000 American lives somehow worth more than 100,000 Iraqi lives? By which reasoning is destroying a few skyscrapers, horrific crime though it was, worse than invading an entire fucking country, bombing the crap out of its infrastructure, and then letting it go to shit amidst sectarian violence and civil war because of nothing but incompetence, short-sightedness and plain hubris? Granting immunity, as a bloody government ostensibly bound to the rule of law, to mercenary killers who operate with little or no oversight? Torturing people for kicks in Abu fucking Ghraib? Where's the sense of proportion here?

The worst part, though, is the fact that the people who committed 9/11 were nothing but murderous fanatics. They can't be held to the same standards as civilised, reasonable people. However, the American government CAN be held to those standards; they are supposed to be civilised, not barbaric. Well, they failed that, didn't they.

So unless you actually are firmly convinced that yes, 3,000 American lives indeed are worth more than 100,000 Iraqi lives - which is your God-given right - it should be blatantly obvious to you that invading a sovereign country and engulfing it in the flames of war makes 9/11 look like a fucking firecracker.

[Archangel]

You really think that?

Even if the war in Iraq was conducted under false pre-tenses it still liberated a nation.

9/11 was just senseless slaughter.

Yeah, I'm sure the Iraqi people are just fucking overjoyed at their liberation.

[Yelram]

The day that America realises that to the rest of the world, the invasion of Iraq was a far bigger crime than 9/11, maybe some sense will come back.
Thats just pathetic. One day you will realize the foresight of this war, one day you will be thanking God that George Bush had the balls to make a decision that was not politically popular. We cant help it you Europeans are stupid enough to have an open door policy with muslim immigrants. They'll have you beat population wise in a decade or two, and the few of you that are left with your heads will be begging us to come and save you.

Arch, you have officially lost your fucking mind, you really are stupid enough to believe we are just all out slaughtering civilians and "razing villages in a style reminiscent of Genghis Khan?" Have you talked to anyone who has gone to Iraq? Or do you let George Souros feed you your news through a fucking tube?

[Archangel]

Yelram, I love you. You bring much needed levity into this serious thread with your sarcastic antics.

And who is George Souros?

[Archangel]

Oh, and the words "God" and George Bush" should not be found within five pages of each other.

[Pax Britannia]

Yeah, I'm sure the Iraqi people are just fucking overjoyed at their liberation.

All joking aside at the moment: Have you attended some European Union policy conference in the last month or so?

Lately it seems to me your morphing into the stereotypical angry continental. Which is a shame because we already have one of them in Fuld.

[Archangel]

When America acts honourably and reasonably, I'll be her staunchest supporter again. I'm a member of the German Atlantic Council, remember? However, as long as it's governed by criminals and imbeciles who will murder people and fuck over their allies - incompetently, no less - for their gain, I'll call a spade a bloody spade. I don't hate America; it's far worse, I feel disappointed, let down.
The problem is that the idiocy, greed and downright evil of the Cheney gang has trickled down to some regular American people. Paranoia, greed, ignorance. That's the actual tragedy here. I hardly recognise the country I loved in '99 and 2000.

[Pax Britannia]

When America acts honourably and reasonably, I'll be her staunchest supporter again. I'm a member of the German Atlantic Council, remember? However, as long as it's governed by criminals and imbeciles who will murder people and fuck over their allies - incompetently, no less - for their gain, I'll call a spade a bloody spade. I don't hate America; it's far worse, I feel disappointed, let down.
The problem is that the idiocy, greed and downright evil of the Cheney gang has trickled down to some regular American people. Paranoia, greed, ignorance. That's the actual tragedy here. I hardly recognise the country I loved in '99 and 2000.

So I best return the McCain/Palin bumpersticker I got you then?

[Archangel]

I think John McCain is an honourable man. He has something NOBODY in the entire Bush administration had: integrity and a sense of decency. If he were elected, we would not get the four more years of Bush that Democrats scare people with, because he's too smart and decent a human being to consider something like Abu Ghraib "the cost of doing business".


Mrs Palin, however, embodies at least half of what is wrong with America today.

[Pax Britannia]

If McCain doesnt crush Obama in tonights debate I dont think theres anything he can do to secure victory.

This whole William Ayres and Reverand Wright thing is just a distraction. The public expects politicians to have a dirty past these days, maybe we're just all too cynical.

[Axel]

Thats just pathetic. One day you will realize the foresight of this war, one day you will be thanking God that George Bush had the balls to make a decision that was not politically popular... The truth is out there! One day we will realize also that:


Cortes didn’t discover Tenochtitlan centuries ago, but archeologist did it recently
Iraq war was one of the most successful military campaigns in history
Bush was the best US president ever
Palin was a great choice for a VP candidate
Can you give us some trustworthy information sources - besides Fox news - to make it happen soon enough?

EDIT: Oh yes and that Obama is actually an extraterrestrial

[Morfin]

buyVS9fRqkw


I think this clip is very telling. But first, some background. There is a good comic strip called Candorville which has been running a thread about embedded journalists going on a special ops mission back to Viet Nam to find and rescue John McCain's lost honor. Link to Candorville. (http://candorville.com/)

Regardless of whether you like the comic, the idea behind it -- where has McCain's honor gone? -- is one that has struck me in terms of his campaigning and what I see as his willingness to say whatever it takes to get elected. His "Country First" slogan clashes with his Palin pick which was a painfully-craven attempt to attract Religious-Right conservatives and women, with an utter disregard for whether she is truly qualified to potentially step into the office of the president.

With that long background, I now address this clip. Maybe, just maybe, McCain has not totally lost his honor. However, he continues to subvert it. Watch him in the clip. Look at how utterly uncomfortable he is in speaking these lines, obviously written for him, not even close to his normal way of speaking. He knows it is slimy to say this stuff; he knows he is above this; yet, despite this, he is being told he has to say it as his last chance to turn the tide (a tide that appears to be growing as Americans realize just how unqualified Palin is). He knows better, but he can't help himself. So he is stuck making this speech. He doesn't give the words any emotional backing -- it's like he is just going through the motions.

In closing, I want to say that I have sympathy for McCain. Caught between his honor and his ambition, knowing that he is subjugating that honor to become president. A victim of his own ambition.

[freegood]

^It seems like you're willing to read a hit piece on McCain's history.

Rolling Stone: The Make Believe Maverick (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print)

It's nasty and vitriolic....

[heelsguy]

I think this clip is very telling. But first, some background. There is a good comic strip called Candorville which has been running a thread about embedded journalists going on a special ops mission back to Viet Nam to find and rescue John McCain's lost honor. Link to Candorville. (http://candorville.com/)

Regardless of whether you like the comic, the idea behind it -- where has McCain's honor gone? -- is one that has struck me in terms of his campaigning and what I see as his willingness to say whatever it takes to get elected. His "Country First" slogan clashes with his Palin pick which was a painfully-craven attempt to attract Religious-Right conservatives and women, with an utter disregard for whether she is truly qualified to potentially step into the office of the president.

With that long background, I now address this clip. Maybe, just maybe, McCain has not totally lost his honor. However, he continues to subvert it. Watch him in the clip. Look at how utterly uncomfortable he is in speaking these lines, obviously written for him, not even close to his normal way of speaking. He knows it is slimy to say this stuff; he knows he is above this; yet, despite this, he is being told he has to say it as his last chance to turn the tide (a tide that appears to be growing as Americans realize just how unqualified Palin is). He knows better, but he can't help himself. So he is stuck making this speech. He doesn't give the words any emotional backing -- it's like he is just going through the motions.

In closing, I want to say that I have sympathy for McCain. Caught between his honor and his ambition, knowing that he is subjugating that honor to become president. A victim of his own ambition.

he has to first get elected in order to do the honorable and right things for the country he loves and has sacrificed much for.

therein lies the rub. GETTING elected. it is sort of like that old joke "I would never join a club that would accept me as a member": any candidate able to get elected will have to have soiled himself to do so..

[Morfin]

^It seems like you're willing to read a hit piece on McCain's history.

Rolling Stone: The Make Believe Maverick (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print)

It's nasty and vitriolic....

I'm not looking for a hit piece. It saddens me to watch him. This is the same way I felt in 1996 watching Bob Dole, a good and honorable man, reduced to calling Clinton and Gore a couple of "clowns" in the election's closing days.

I may be idealistic, but I am pragmatic enough to know that you have to sell your soul to get elected and that the true test comes after election and whether you bounce back to pre-election form. I just find it depressing. And maybe I will always feel this way. I just expected, or maybe the better word is, hoped, for McCain to be a true maverick and to rise above that. (Or at least nominate a VP who is somewhat qualified.)

I know, I know: Take it to the Emo thread.

[Smokestack]

Today's Polls, 10/6 (http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/todays-polls-106.html)

Are John McCain's negative attacks succeeding in eating into some of Barack Obama's support? They certainly aren't yet. In fact, Barack Obama has had perhaps his strongest individual polling day of the year:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3092/2920189459_1706c9111a_o.png

You can read these numbers as well as I can. Obama leads by 6 in North Carolina? 12 in Virginia? 7 in Florida? 3 in Missouri? Obviously, I am cherrypicking some of the more pro-Obama results here ... but the point is, there are a lot of favorable results these days for Barack Obama.

The larger Obama's margin in the popular vote becomes (and over the course of the past several weeks, he's been gaining a full a point on McCain roughly every three days) the less the relative positioning of the states matters. For John McCain to get back into this race, he is going to need some dramatic events to occur, and we don't know in which types of states such events might have a differential impact; something like an outbreak of hostilities in the Middle East could make a very different electoral footprint than new revelations about Barack Obama and William Ayers.

For that reason, the proper strategy is probably now to play a fairly large map; Obama in particular wants to keep as many doors open as possible if and when something bad happens to his campaign.

For the time being, however, John McCain is facing third and long -- and appears that he's about to get sacked.

[halfabubbleoff]

I have to say "don't count McCain out yet"

Tonight is Debate Night in Nashville. The Town Hall Format does favor McCain and it is something he has been asking for.

I honestly think that the McCain camp is holding out for the post-debate bounce they expect with a strong showing here. McCain feels that he can connect better with the voters in this environment. He also knows that middle TN leans more conservative, so he can play to that and get the audience behind him. Obama may be faced with some very hard questions from the audience that will place him on uncomfortable footing.

However, if Obama manages to stay calm and actually address each question from the audience, he could come across as more presidential.

I am hoping we see some of the McCain 2000 out there as opposed to "Hall of Presidents" animatronic McCain that I saw at the convention. I am also hoping for a good debate without the mud slinging we have seen for the past few days. I am not expecting it this close to the election, but it is still nice to dream.

[dadaelus]

he has to first get elected in order to do the honorable and right things for the country he loves and has sacrificed much for.

therein lies the rub. GETTING elected. it is sort of like that old joke "I would never join a club that would accept me as a member": any candidate able to get elected will have to have soiled himself to do so..

How do we get to this stage where an honorable man does dishonorable things in order to be President? Is it the handlers working out of old playbooks? Is it the candidate, acting out of desperation? Or is it the fact that this is what the voter, through an enabling press, seems to react to and reward?

[Desperado]

How do we get to this stage where an honorable man does dishonorable things in order to be President? Is it the handlers working out of old playbooks? Is it the candidate, acting out of desperation? Or is it the fact that this is what the voter, through an enabling press, seems to react to and reward?


Desperation is an ugly thing to see....

[Stax]

A pretty simple breakdown of the election from DailyKos (liberal, yes, but not wrong)

-Obama is leading in every national poll across the board
-Obama is leading in every state John Kerry won in 2004
-Obama has flipped New Mexico and Iowa, both states won by 43 (Bush) in 2004
-Obama is leading tight races in 8 key battleground states-OH, FL, NV, NC, MO, VA, CO, with polls from MO showing McCain with a slight 2 point advantage

Drumroll please...........

If Obama wins ONE, just ONE of these battleground states, he will win the election.

Now I'm not willing to be so friendly as to say he clearly has a lead in all those battleground states, but the message remains the same. He's almost certainly going to flip either Nevada or Colorado (if not both) where he's been pretty consistently leading since earning the nomination. That wins him the election, and it then merely becomes a question of margin of victory.

[kareyn01]

A pretty simple breakdown of the election from DailyKos (liberal, yes, but not wrong)



Now I'm not willing to be so friendly as to say he clearly has a lead in all those battleground states, but the message remains the same. He's almost certainly going to flip either Nevada or Colorado (if not both) where he's been pretty consistently leading since earning the nomination. That wins him the election, and it then merely becomes a question of margin of victory.

www.pollster.com shows the current tally at Obama 320-McCain 163, with only five true toss-ups remaining. Even in those states, Obama currently leads three (NC, VA, and NV), while McCain has a slight edge in Indiana and Missouri (although there have been recent polls in both states that show Obama winning there as well, and the others show McCain with only a one or two point lead).

In addition, after pulling out of Michigan, the McCain campaign went on record and said that their only true path to the nomination was through Pennsylvania. Well, that just got much more difficult. Not only do two new polls out today show Obama up 10 (Muhlenberg) and 15 (SurveyUSA), the new registration numbers are in after yesterday's deadline. Democrats now have 1,169,663 more registered voters than Republicans. Given the ability of the Obama campaign so far to get out voters in the primaries, and to register them nationwide, that's a pretty big cushion to work with. (http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/)

McCain needs a game-changer, and unless something new emerges, Ayers and Wright (who we've all heard of a million times now) aren't going to be it.

[kareyn01]

And sorry for the double-post, but has anybody seen McCain's new proposal to cut Medicare and Medicaid spending by $1.3 trillion? No matter what your thoughts about that are politically, what the hell is he doing announcing that when his poll numbers in Florida are already taking a hit? You really plan to win the state that has the highest Medicare population in the nation by running on a platform to cut Medicare expenses?

[Stax]

www.pollster.com shows the current tally at Obama 320-McCain 163, with only five true toss-ups remaining. Even in those states, Obama currently leads three (NC, VA, and NV), while McCain has a slight edge in Indiana and Missouri (although there have been recent polls in both states that show Obama winning there as well, and the others show McCain with only a one or two point lead).


Yeah, Electoral-vote.com (which has a slight liberal slant) has it at 349-174 with 15 (North Carolina) tied. Real Clear Politics has it at 364-174 with no tossups or 264-163 with them (which is the conservative map of only Iowa and New Mexico definite flips). fivethirtyeight.com has it at 345.4-192.6 with an 89.2% liklihood of an Obama win.

[Archangel]

Anybody watching Bush right now talking about how "somebody" raising taxes is gonna make matters so much worse?

Seriously, is that the only argument they have?

[Gary_Busey]

Palin is coming to ECU tonight to speak. I might go try and hit on her.

[TheImpossibleMan]

CNN.com has Obama winning by a vast margin but isn't calling it outright for him.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/calculator/

[redsox39]

^It seems like you're willing to read a hit piece on McCain's history.

Rolling Stone: The Make Believe Maverick (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print)

It's nasty and vitriolic....

Wow That is definetly a hit piece. Holy crap.

Example. A Guy across the Aircraft carrier "accidently" shoots a rocket that hit John McCains plan while sitting in the run way. "Somehow" after John was hit and fire surrounded his plane, his bombs clunked on the ship. John, surrounded by fire and of course knowing full well how to bail out, jumps out of his plan and dives for cover. One of the bombs goes off and kills the fire fighters trying to battle the blaze and ensuing chain reaction explosions. Why wasn't John McCain out there dying trying to fight the fire? Those deaths are on him.


And Obviously not on the poor innocent soul who accidently fired a rocket on the ship of course.

and on and On it goes. John Wasn't brave when captured, and he was barely tortured. John McCain is a little bitch who is only concerned about getting laid and getting drunk. No one likes John McCain. He hated his wife for getting in a car accident. His second wife is miserable because of him and hooked on pills...

And People will read that and eat it up. I am sure there are some of you right here doing it right now. It is sad really...

[kareyn01]

Its in the media's best interests to make the race seem as close as possible. Pretty much every major media outlet has Obama as close to 270 as possible without going over, because as soon as they say Obama's sitting at 320 or 330, people will lose interest and think its a done deal. The independent sites, on the other hand, all show where the race really is sitting right now, which is with Obama holding a pretty commanding lead (which he still has time to lose, though it would be difficult).

[Archangel]

Wow That is definetly a hit piece. Holy crap.

Example. A Guy across the Aircraft carrier "accidently" shoots a rocket that hit John McCains plan while sitting in the run way. "Somehow" after John was hit and fire surrounded his plane, his bombs clunked on the ship. John, surrounded by fire and of course knowing full well how to bail out, jumps out of his plan and dives for cover. One of the bombs goes off and kills the fire fighters trying to battle the blaze and ensuing chain reaction explosions. Why wasn't John McCain out there dying trying to fight the fire? Those deaths are on him.


And Obviously not on the poor innocent soul who accidently fired a rocket on the ship of course.

and on and On it goes. John Wasn't brave when captured, and he was barely tortured. John McCain is a little bitch who is only concerned about getting laid and getting drunk. No one likes John McCain. He hated his wife for getting in a car accident. His second wife is miserable because of him and hooked on pills...

And People will read that and eat it up. I am sure there are some of you right here doing it right now. It is sad really...

Yeah, because no conservative ever showed glee over the Starr Report or the Swift Boat campaigns against John Kerry...

[Stax]

Wow That is definetly a hit piece. Holy crap.

Example. A Guy across the Aircraft carrier "accidently" shoots a rocket that hit John McCains plan while sitting in the run way. "Somehow" after John was hit and fire surrounded his plane, his bombs clunked on the ship. John, surrounded by fire and of course knowing full well how to bail out, jumps out of his plan and dives for cover. One of the bombs goes off and kills the fire fighters trying to battle the blaze and ensuing chain reaction explosions. Why wasn't John McCain out there dying trying to fight the fire? Those deaths are on him.


And Obviously not on the poor innocent soul who accidently fired a rocket on the ship of course.

and on and On it goes. John Wasn't brave when captured, and he was barely tortured. John McCain is a little bitch who is only concerned about getting laid and getting drunk. No one likes John McCain. He hated his wife for getting in a car accident. His second wife is miserable because of him and hooked on pills...

And People will read that and eat it up. I am sure there are some of you right here doing it right now. It is sad really...

But saying Obama associates with terrorists because he sat on a schoolboard with Ayers is ok?

Negative attacks are just generally stupid because they go at (generally untrue or misrepresented) minutia. But McCain knew full well that his elevation to negative campaigning would bring a response in kind.

[kareyn01]

Wow That is definetly a hit piece. Holy crap.

Example. A Guy across the Aircraft carrier "accidently" shoots a rocket that hit John McCains plan while sitting in the run way. "Somehow" after John was hit and fire surrounded his plane, his bombs clunked on the ship. John, surrounded by fire and of course knowing full well how to bail out, jumps out of his plan and dives for cover. One of the bombs goes off and kills the fire fighters trying to battle the blaze and ensuing chain reaction explosions. Why wasn't John McCain out there dying trying to fight the fire? Those deaths are on him.


And Obviously not on the poor innocent soul who accidently fired a rocket on the ship of course.

and on and On it goes. John Wasn't brave when captured, and he was barely tortured. John McCain is a little bitch who is only concerned about getting laid and getting drunk. No one likes John McCain. He hated his wife for getting in a car accident. His second wife is miserable because of him and hooked on pills...

And People will read that and eat it up. I am sure there are some of you right here doing it right now. It is sad really...

Who on here is eating it up? The person who linked to it called it "a hit piece on McCain", and the person who it was directed to (Morfin) said he wasn't interested in reading it.

What's sad is that in the past few days, supporters at McCain and Palin rallies have yelled "treason!", "terrorist!" and "kill him!" towards Obama, and somebody told a black CNN cameraman to "sit down, boy", and yet there hasn't been any move by the McCain campaign to disparage those kinds of remarks. Why not? Because its free advertising for McCain. He's been trying all week to tie Obama to Ayers, so when the media reports on those things, the voters get to hear the words "Obama" and "terrorist" and "treason" in the same sentence.

Sorry, those two things are COMPLETELY unconnected, I just wanted to avoide a double post.

[Yelram]

Who on here is eating it up? The person who linked to it called it "a hit piece on McCain", and the person who it was directed to (Morfin) said he wasn't interested in reading it.

What's sad is that in the past few days, supporters at McCain and Palin rallies have yelled "treason!", "terrorist!" and "kill him!" towards Obama, and somebody told a black CNN cameraman to "sit down, boy", and yet there hasn't been any move by the McCain campaign to disparage those kinds of remarks. Why not? Because its free advertising for McCain. He's been trying all week to tie Obama to Ayers, so when the media reports on those things, the voters get to hear the words "Obama" and "terrorist" and "treason" in the same sentence.

Sorry, those two things are COMPLETELY unconnected, I just wanted to avoide a double post.

When someone has no record, theres very few things to get critical about that arent some form of character assassination.

[Smokestack]

When someone has no record, theres very few things to get critical about that arent some form of character assassination.

Just an FYI, this "no record" line is utter bullshit. His record may not be as long as McCain's, but it does exist and certainly doesn't have nearly as many obvious holes as other recent candidates (George W. Bush and his National Guard service come to mind). It's an appalling leap in logic to go from someone having a shorter record to okaying the assumption that that someone "palled around with terrorists."

If you're into assuming things, maybe, just maybe, try assuming that if "there are very few things to get critical about" that it could be because that person has very few skeletons in their closet rather than playing character assassin. You see, the Times article that Palin cited posited that there actually was more or less a passing acquaintance between Ayers and Obama, not that the two were in some kind of nefarious cahoots, as she implied.

Of, if you're such an assumption-monger, then make some assumptions based on contradictory messages from a campaign:

Let me be very clear. I am not questioning [Obama's] patriotism. I am questioning his judgment.
--John McCain, August 20, 2008


I am just so fearful that [Obama] is not a man who sees America the way that you and I see America, as the greatest source for good in this world. I'm afraid this is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to work with a former domestic terrorist who had targeted his own country.
--Sarah Palin, October 6, 2008


My assumption here would be that this is being brought up because McCain is desperate. And yours is still that it's because Obama has no record?

[Yelram]

Just an FYI, this "no record" line is utter bullshit. His record may not be as long as McCain's, but it does exist and certainly doesn't have nearly as many obvious holes as other recent candidates (George W. Bush and his National Guard service come to mind). It's an appalling leap in logic to go from someone having a shorter record to okaying the assumption that that someone "palled around with terrorists."

If you're into assuming things, maybe, just maybe, try assuming that if "there are very few things to get critical about" that it could be because that person has very few skeletons in their closet rather than playing character assassin. You see, the Times article that Palin cited posited that there actually was more or less a passing acquaintance between Ayers and Obama, not that the two were in some kind of nefarious cahoots, as she implied.

Of, if you're such an assumption-monger, then make some assumptions based on contradictory messages from a campaign:

Let me be very clear. I am not questioning [Obama's] patriotism. I am questioning his judgment.
--John McCain, August 20, 2008


I am just so fearful that [Obama] is not a man who sees America the way that you and I see America, as the greatest source for good in this world. I'm afraid this is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to work with a former domestic terrorist who had targeted his own country.
--Sarah Palin, October 6, 2008


My assumption here would be that this is being brought up because McCain is desperate. And yours is still that it's because Obama has no record?

Yeah, exactly. Either that or its obvious racism(/sarcasm). Its hard to criticize someone on their record when they dont have one. Hard to criticize someones stance on issues when they change their position from day to day. Obama is just a greenhorn. He's aspiring to be as slimey as Biden and Mccain, he might be outside the box, but thats only because he's not experienced enough for anyone to let him into it. I never said there was any sort of "nefarious cahoots", and neither did they.

[Smokestack]

Yeah, exactly. Either that or its obvious racism(/sarcasm). Its hard to criticize someone on their record when they dont have one. Hard to criticize someones stance on issues when they change their position from day to day. Obama is just a greenhorn. He's aspiring to be as slimey as Biden and Mccain, he might be outside the box, but thats only because he's not experienced enough for anyone to let him into it. I never said there was any sort of "nefarious cahoots", and neither did they.

So, when the person introducing Palin just happened to call him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, and then Palin says that he's "palling around with terrorists," you think what's going on is fair game because, in your words, he has "no record"? That's really the connection you're drawing from that?

[Yelram]

So, when the person introducing Palin just happened to call him by his full name, Barack Hussein Obama, and then Palin says that he's "palling around with terrorists," you think what's going on is fair game because, in your words, he has "no record"? That's really the connection you're drawing from that?
Why cant we say his middle name? He's got nothing to scrutinize. He's a fucking blank slate. When people want to know who someone is, and they barely have a voting record, you resort to everything. I'm not saying i'm totally in favor of that, just what else do you expect? I'd like a record to look at before I hire someone for the highest office int he land. Not some slimey lawyer who has done nothing but serve as "community organizer" , which by Alinsky rules goes something like this http://www.semcosh.org/AlinskyTactics.pdf
Its no longer the person with a long history of serving the country in war and peace, its the one who can talk badly about the US, and incite the most dissent against the status quo. Enough dissent to make intelligent Americans overlook a glaring lack of qualification.

[TheImpossibleMan]

...and you just described Lincoln.

(PLEASE don't let Yelram think I actually want to argue with him)

[Smokestack]

...and you just described Lincoln.

(PLEASE don't let Yelram think I actually want to argue with him)

Yeah, when they start claiming that someone's middle name is a window into their soul, it's time to disengage.

[Yelram]

Yeah, when they start claiming that someone's middle name is a window into their soul, it's time to disengage.

I suppose a middle name has no relevence at all? Why dont we just cross it out, so that people wont be offended by people using it. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

[Desperado]

Yeah, exactly. Either that or its obvious racism(/sarcasm). Its hard to criticize someone on their record when they dont have one. Hard to criticize someones stance on issues when they change their position from day to day. Obama is just a greenhorn. He's aspiring to be as slimey as Biden and Mccain, he might be outside the box, but thats only because he's not experienced enough for anyone to let him into it. I never said there was any sort of "nefarious cahoots", and neither did they.


Im gonna add this post here regarding McCains great record!!!
full list
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/flipflops


National Security Policy
1. McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15781.html); now he believes the opposite.
2. McCain insisted that everyone, even “terrible killers,” “the worst kind of scum of humanity,” and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, “deserve to have some adjudication of their cases,” even if that means “releasing some of them.” McCain now believes the opposite (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15999.html).
3. He opposed indefinite detention (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15864.html) of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”
4. In February 2008, McCain reversed course (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/10/emtimeem-has-mccain-flip_n_96179.html) on prohibiting waterboarding.
5. McCain was for closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it (http://www.azcongresswatch.com/?p=1587").
6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with predators, McCain criticized him for it. He’s since come to the opposite conclusion (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/06/17/mccain-s-bomb.aspx).
Foreign Policy
7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16008.html). Now, he’s for it again (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16350.html).
8. McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15617.html)” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.
9. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15557.html). Now he believes the opposite.
10. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15564.html). Now he believes the opposite.
11. McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/mccain-rewrites.html)” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.
12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention (http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071031/NATION/110310071/1001), even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/04/mccain-divestment/) before he was for it.
Military Policy
14. McCain recently claimed that he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/18/mccain-greatest-critic/).” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15370.html), concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good and a bad idea.
16. McCain was against additional U.S. forces in Afghanistan before he was for it (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16212.html).
17. McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along (http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jan/05/olbermann_crowns_mccain_worst_persons_for_flip_flo pping) that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
18. McCain has repeatedly said it’s a dangerous mistake to tell the “enemy” when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/politics/16mccain.html).

[Smokestack]

I suppose a middle name has no relevence at all? Why dont we just cross it out, so that people wont be offended by people using it. WAKE UP PEOPLE.

Why don't we just not use it, as is common practice? WAKE UP, DIPSHIT!

[Desperado]

Why don't we just not use it, as is common practice? WAKE UP, DIPSHIT!

But if theres a chance that it might scare the country folk into believing hes a terroist... why not use it right?

[Yelram]

But if theres a chance that it might scare the country folk into believing hes a terroist... why not use it right?

How do you know what the fuck Barack Obama believes? I've already voted for him once, and i've been changing my mind ever since (primaries)

[kid_vidrio]

Why cant we say his middle name? He's got nothing to scrutinize. He's a fucking blank slate. When people want to know who someone is, and they barely have a voting record, you resort to everything. I'm not saying i'm totally in favor of that, just what else do you expect? I'd like a record to look at before I hire someone for the highest office int he land. Not some slimey lawyer who has done nothing but serve as "community organizer" , which by Alinsky rules goes something like this http://www.semcosh.org/AlinskyTactics.pdf
Its no longer the person with a long history of serving the country in war and peace, its the one who can talk badly about the US, and incite the most dissent against the status quo. Enough dissent to make intelligent Americans overlook a glaring lack of qualification.
Alinsky's tips are great. Thanks for that link.

As for the 'blank slate' bit, and this doesn't really surprise me about you buddy, but since you haven't bothered to read his books or his platform or read up on people who have read them and instead parrot the whole 'done nothing' line, it's a little like saying 'Asia doesn't really interest me; my friend went and said it sucked.' In other words baseless and irrelevant.

[Desperado]

How do you know what the fuck Barack Obama believes? I've already voted for him once, and i've been changing my mind ever since (primaries)


Wow man... you really think hes a terrorist huh? Umm ok, thanks for playing.

[Yelram]

Alinsky's tips are great. Thanks for that link.

As for the 'blank slate' bit, and this doesn't really surprise me about you buddy, but since you haven't bothered to read his books or his platform or read up on people who have read them and instead parrot the whole 'done nothing' line, it's a little like saying 'Asia doesn't really interest me; my friend went and said it sucked.' In other words baseless and irrelevant.

This is where I have you, you dumb little asshole. I had to defend Barack against everyone who assumes I would vote republican. I spent months arguing with people, and all he's done is disappoint. I've read his "platitudesform" I read pieces from his books, but not all of them. He's just another politician, and an inexperienced one to boot. He is all about political posturing, trying to convince everyone he's on their side. He takes his time to word things very carefully to prevent himself from being called on things, and when he is, it turns into more doubletalk. He's just another suit.

[Desperado]

This is where I have you, you dumb little asshole. I had to defend Barack against everyone who assumes I would vote republican. I spent months arguing with people, and all he's done is disappoint. I've read his "platitudesform" I read pieces from his books, but not all of them. He's just another politician, and an inexperienced one to boot. He is all about political posturing, trying to convince everyone he's on their side. He takes his time to word things very carefully to prevent himself from being called on things, and when he is, it turns into more doubletalk. He's just another suit.


You really think McCain is different?

[Yelram]

Wow man... you really think hes a terrorist huh? Umm ok, thanks for playing.
See, there you go to the extreme, you didnt even reason that maybe he's bad in a "non jihadist" sort of way. Like wants to uproot much of the underlying structure of our country to try to "force" equality. You just dont get it.

[Yelram]

You really think McCain is different?

No, god, do you know how to read? I dont LIKE McCain. I have no choice but to vote for him. Hell at this point I think I'd rather have a Hillary ticket than an Obama ticket.

[Smokestack]

This is where I have you, you dumb little asshole. I had to defend Barack against everyone who assumes I would vote republican. I spent months arguing with people, and all he's done is disappoint. I've read his "platitudesform" I read pieces from his books, but not all of them. He's just another politician, and an inexperienced one to boot. He is all about political posturing, trying to convince everyone he's on their side. He takes his time to word things very carefully to prevent himself from being called on things, and when he is, it turns into more doubletalk. He's just another suit.

No, god, do you know how to read? I dont LIKE McCain. I have no choice but to vote for him. Hell at this point I think I'd rather have a Hillary ticket than an Obama ticket.

It's obvious that's you've become disillusioned by Obama, but I have to be honest here: you're acting like a fucking drama queen.

[Desperado]

No, god, do you know how to read? I dont LIKE McCain. I have no choice but to vote for him. Hell at this point I think I'd rather have a Hillary ticket than an Obama ticket.


Because McCain has more of a record you will pick him and Obama as you say "Talks from both sides of his mouth and has no record", you will not pick him. The problem with that is McCains record is full of bullshit, from the keating 5 issue to his monumental record of flip/flops. I see what you mean when you say picking the lesser of two evils.

[kid_vidrio]

This is where I have you, you dumb little asshole. I had to defend Barack against everyone who assumes I would vote republican. I spent months arguing with people, and all he's done is disappoint. I've read his "platitudesform" I read pieces from his books, but not all of them. He's just another politician, and an inexperienced one to boot. He is all about political posturing, trying to convince everyone he's on their side. He takes his time to word things very carefully to prevent himself from being called on things, and when he is, it turns into more doubletalk. He's just another suit.
This is where you don't have me.
The fact that you read and researched and still can't see that he is not a blank slate only reveals your inability to comprehend much of what you read. Which is pretty evident when reading your posts.

[Yelram]

This is where you don't have me.
The fact that you read and researched and still can't see that he is not a blank slate only reveals your inability to comprehend much of what you read. Which is pretty evident when reading your posts.
Please, show me why he is qualified to be president, and a 30 year senator, war hero, who has stood up to his own party isnt. Because you liked his books? Because he didnt even serve a full term in the senate before he started running for president? Because you think a specific plan of his is the shiznit, seriously, WHY ARE YOU FOR HIM? I shouldnt have to prove why i'm against him as much as you should have to prove why you are for him.

[Archangel]

See, there you go to the extreme, you didnt even reason that maybe he's bad in a "non jihadist" sort of way. Like wants to uproot much of the underlying structure of our country to try to "force" equality. You just dont get it.

I thought equality was one of your country's founding principles, so how is trying to re-establish it "uprooting" the country?


Wait, why am I even arguing with someone who thinks that Bush is anything but a laughingstock and a failure?

[Smokestack]

Please, show me why he is qualified to be president, and a 30 year senator, war hero, who has stood up to his own party isnt. Because you liked his books? Because he didnt even serve a full term in the senate before he started running for president? Because you think a specific plan of his is the shiznit, seriously, WHY ARE YOU FOR HIM? I shouldnt have to prove why i'm against him as much as you should have to prove why you are for him.

--He has been right on Iraq and Afghanistan, McCain hasn't
--His healthcare positions are more progressive than McCain's
--His eloquence, statesmanship and temperment are all presidential
--He offers a strong rebuke of recent failed policies
--He would improve our standing in the world
--He has a better grasp on the economy than McCain's
--His VP pick demonstrated sound decisionmaking while McCain's proved that he makes dangerous decisions
--He's in better health than McCain
--His view on judges is much more in the mainstream of America, important given aging Supreme Court Justices

Those are just a few....I'm sure others could add more. Just because you can't see any good qualities in the man doesn't mean that others can't.

[Pax Britannia]

--He has been right on Iraq and Afghanistan, McCain hasn't

To be fair McCain did support the surge against all political expediancy which ended up improving the situation no end.

[Desperado]

Please, show me why he is qualified to be president, and a 30 year senator, war hero, who has stood up to his own party isnt. Because you liked his books? Because he didnt even serve a full term in the senate before he started running for president? Because you think a specific plan of his is the shiznit, seriously, WHY ARE YOU FOR HIM? I shouldnt have to prove why i'm against him as much as you should have to prove why you are for him.

I can again show you why McCain is wrong if you like? Full list this time!!!


National Security Policy
1. McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15781.html); now he believes the opposite.
2. McCain insisted that everyone, even “terrible killers,” “the worst kind of scum of humanity,” and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, “deserve to have some adjudication of their cases,” even if that means “releasing some of them.” McCain now believes the opposite (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15999.html).
3. He opposed indefinite detention (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15864.html) of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”
4. In February 2008, McCain reversed course (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/10/emtimeem-has-mccain-flip_n_96179.html) on prohibiting waterboarding.
5. McCain was for closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it (http://www.azcongresswatch.com/?p=1587").
6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with predators, McCain criticized him for it. He’s since come to the opposite conclusion (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/06/17/mccain-s-bomb.aspx).
Foreign Policy
7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16008.html). Now, he’s for it again (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16350.html).
8. McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15617.html)” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.
9. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15557.html). Now he believes the opposite.
10. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15564.html). Now he believes the opposite.
11. McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/mccain-rewrites.html)” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.
12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention (http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071031/NATION/110310071/1001), even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/04/mccain-divestment/) before he was for it.
Military Policy
14. McCain recently claimed that he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/18/mccain-greatest-critic/).” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15370.html), concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good and a bad idea.
16. McCain was against additional U.S. forces in Afghanistan before he was for it (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16212.html).
17. McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along (http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jan/05/olbermann_crowns_mccain_worst_persons_for_flip_flo pping) that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
18. McCain has repeatedly said it’s a dangerous mistake to tell the “enemy” when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013 (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/politics/16mccain.html).
19. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16022.html).
20. McCain staunchly opposed Obama’s Iraq withdrawal timetable, and even blasted Mitt Romney for having referenced the word during the GOP primaries. In July, after Iraqi officials endorsed Obama’s policy, McCain said a 16-month calendar sounds like “a pretty good timetable (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16328.html).”
Domestic Policy
21. McCain defended “privatizing (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15863.html)” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)
22. On Social Security, McCain said he would not (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/07/28/no-none-none-okay-maybe-some.aspx), under any circumstances, raise taxes. Soon after, asked about a possible increase in the payroll tax, McCain said there’s “nothing that’s off the table (http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Story?id=5457720&page=3).”
23. McCain wanted to change (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/10/mccain-flips-on-abortion_n_101115.html) the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.
24. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/may/28/mccains-about-face-yucca/) in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.
25. He argued the NRA should not have a role (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15573.html) in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.
26. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15033.html) a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.
27. McCain is both for and against (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/01/06/mccain-earmark/) earmarks for Arizona.
28. McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15176.html).
29. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8809.html), to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/02/mccain200702?printable=true&currentPage=all).
30. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it (http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20070115/pl_usnw/dnc__mccain_spends_mlk_holiday_pandering_to_the_fa r_right).
31. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15637887/).
32. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag (http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003).
33. In 2005 (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/02/12/mccain-creationism/), McCain endorsed (http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/opinion/90521) intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite (http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20060702/NEWS/107020079), and a few months after that, he was both (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/02/mccain200702?printable=true&currentPage=all) for and against creationism at the same time.
34. And on gay adoption, McCain initially said he’d rather let orphans go without families (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16207.html), then his campaign reversed course, and soon after, McCain reversed back (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/27/mccain-gay-adoption-2/).
35. In the Senate, McCain opposed a variety of measures on equal pay for women, and endorsed the Supreme Court’s Ledbetter decision. In July, however, McCain said (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16168.html), “I’m committed to making sure that there’s equal pay for equal work. That … is my record and you can count on it.”
36. McCain was against fully funding (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16256.html) the No Child Left Behind Act before he was for it.
37. McCain was for affirmative action before he was against it (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/07/mccain-reverses.html).
38. McCain said the Colorado River compact (http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_10218277) will “obviously” need to be “renegotiated.” Six days later, McCain said (http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_10258234), “Let me be clear that I do not advocate renegotiation of the compact.”
Economic Policy
39. McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/6731.html).
40. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, “I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated,” and “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a “very strong (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16070.html%22)” understanding of economics.
41. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/16/us/politics/16mccain.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin) to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16112.html%22).
42. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/us/politics/03mccain.html?ref=us).” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.
43. McCain thought the estate tax (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15825.html) was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.
44. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14761.html), “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”
45. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15337.html).
46. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/19/mccain-economy-bloomberg/) economically than they were before Bush took office.
47. McCain was against massive government bailouts of “big banks” that “act irresponsibly.” He then announced his support (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/06/freddie-mac-mccain/) for a massive government bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Energy Policy
48. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/16/AR2008061602148.html); now he’s against it.
49. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/18/mccains-offshore-drilling_n_107872.html).
50. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to voluntary (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15897.html).
51. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15982.html).
52. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15699.html) to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.
53. McCain was for national auto emissions standards (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080718/METRO/807180414) before he was against them.
Immigration Policy
54. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act (http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071031/NATION/110310071/1001), which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. In 2007, he announced his opposition to the bill. In 2008, McCain switched back (http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/7/14/174550/455).
55. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14447.html).
56. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders “before proceeding to other reform measures.” Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16038.html), pretended that he’d never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his “top priority.”
Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law
57. McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test (http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/now-mccain-is-flip-flopping-on-judges.html) on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.
58. McCain’s position was that the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052802967.html). He used to believe the opposite.
59. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal (http://mediamatters.org/items/200610310003) of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/19/mccain-abortion/).
60. In June, McCain rejected the idea of a trial for Osama bin Laden, and thought Obama’s reference to Nuremberg was a misread of history. A month later, McCain argued the exact opposite position (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16331.html).
61. In June, McCain described the Supreme Court’s decision in Boumediene v. Bush was “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.” In August, he reversed course (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/14/mccain-gitmo-is-one-of-the-nicest-places-in-the-world-to-live-in/).
Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform
62. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/20/mccains-97-lobbyist-bill_n_102662.html) from 1997. Now he doesn’t.
63. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9658.html).
64. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned (http://www.nysun.com/article/36949) his own legislation.
65. In May 2008, McCain approved a ban on lobbyists working for his campaign. In July 2008, his campaign reversed course (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16375.html) and said lobbyists could work for his campaign.
Politics and Associations
66. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15633.html). Now he doesn’t. (He also believes his endorsement from Hagee was both a good and bad (http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/hagee-flip-flop/) idea.)
67. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15633.html%22). Now he doesn’t.
68. McCain says he considered and did not consider (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14818.html) joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.
69. McCain is both for and against (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15358.html) attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.
70. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/6988.html) who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
71. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1880630&page=1).
72. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it (http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/8313.html).
73. McCain decided (http://nymag.com/news/people/24750/index5.html) in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair (http://thinkprogress.org/2006/12/19/mccain-kissinger/) for his presidential campaign in New York.
74. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was “corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff’s gay lover.” McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally (http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/06/23/mccain-and-grover-now-officially-simpatico.aspx).

[Claydon]

--He has been right on Iraq and Afghanistan, McCain hasn't
--His healthcare positions are more progressive than McCain's
--His eloquence, statesmanship and temperment are all presidential
--He offers a strong rebuke of recent failed policies
--He would improve our standing in the world
--He has a better grasp on the economy than McCain's
--His VP pick demonstrated sound decisionmaking while McCain's proved that he makes dangerous decisions
--He's in better health than McCain
--His view on judges is much more in the mainstream of America, important given aging Supreme Court Justices

Those are just a few....I'm sure others could add more. Just because you can't see any good qualities in the man doesn't mean that others can't.

Holy shit are you drinking the kool aid. Obama has only used words and has NEVER done a fucking thing short of being an absent Jr. senator and a community leader.

[FarEastFornicator]

Don't bother talking with this nut. (Yelrem) He sounds like a small town hick who screams at people at parties about politics and tries to get them to see how evil liberals are.

[Archangel]

"Only words"?


Marcus Tullius Cicero is considered one of the greatest politicians of all time, and all he ever used were "only words".

[redsox39]

But saying Obama associates with terrorists because he sat on a schoolboard with Ayers is ok?

Negative attacks are just generally stupid because they go at (generally untrue or misrepresented) minutia. But McCain knew full well that his elevation to negative campaigning would bring a response in kind.

So he only sat a a little school board with Ayers? Wasn't that board a place to distribute over $50 Million dollars he scammed of of a Conservative donor?? Are you saying he never hung out with him, or went to his house, or had dinner with him?

Yeah I would say Calling McCain a cowardly Killer for Bailing out of his plane that was on deck on Fire is a lot different than bringing up Obama hanging out with a Tim McVeigh type who blew up buildings and killed people with Malice. Yes. I will stand by that 100%.

[Pax Britannia]

"Only words"?


Marcus Tullius Cicero is considered one of the greatest politicians of all time, and all he ever used were "only words".

Words that got him killed and failed to stop Caesar becomming dictator.

I guess everyone likes a lost cause story though right?

[redsox39]

I can again show you why McCain is wrong if you like? Full list this time!!!


Glad to see you can think for yourself. I can pull a shit list about Obama from any of 1000 blogs and copy and paste too. Doesn't make it any more true, or you any less full of shit.

[Claydon]

"Only words"?


Marcus Tullius Cicero is considered one of the greatest politicians of all time, and all he ever used were "only words".

Cicero commanded the respect of the senate, do not ATTEMPT to hold obama up with Cicero. I am nauseated and disgusted by the very mention of obama in the same post as Cicero.

[Desperado]

Cicero commanded the respect of the senate, do not ATTEMPT to hold obama up with Cicero. I am nauseated and disgusted by the very mention of obama in the same post as Cicero.

Cicero had his hand cut off and nailed to the Senate doors. I will say this though, Obama is a powerful speaker who seems to inspire those that wish to hear him and according to the most recent polls, its working.

[Gary_Busey]

I wish people would get over the Ayers thing. Some excellent reading for those who haven't:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95442902

[Archangel]

Cicero commanded the respect of the senate, do not ATTEMPT to hold obama up with Cicero. I am nauseated and disgusted by the very mention of obama in the same post as Cicero.

Actually, his DNC speech reminded both myself and my dad (the best political speechwriter of post-war Germany) quite a lot of Cicero's rhetoric.

And kooks like Hannity, Yelram and redsox aside, who doesn't respect Obama?

[Claydon]

Cicero had his hand cut off and nailed to the Senate doors. I will say this though, Obama is a powerful speaker who seems to inspire those that wish to hear him and according to the most recent polls, its working.

Obama is not a powerful speaker, Obama merely uses the speaking style of a southern preacher....listen to him and then listen to a southern preachers sermon. The style is identical, Roosevelt was a great speaker, Kennedy was a great speaker, Reagan was a fantastic speaker, Obama merely emulates his former pastor. The pastor that apparently went from non hate speech to hate speech rapidly, at least according to Barry.

[Claydon]

Fuck, I will even say Hitler was a great speaker, and I cannot understand a fucking thing he said. Im sure it was something about loving the jews and being friends with the French.

[Gary_Busey]

Obama in no way sounds like a Southern preacher.

[Desperado]

Obama is not a powerful speaker, Obama merely uses the speaking style of a southern preacher....listen to him and then listen to a southern preachers sermon. The style is identical, Roosevelt was a great speaker, Kennedy was a great speaker, Reagan was a fantastic speaker, Obama merely emulates his former pastor. The pastor that apparently went from non hate speech to hate speech rapidly, at least according to Barry.


Hahaha soooo... you hate the sound of Southern Pastors then? I personally like the words he says... but hey, thats just me.

[Archangel]

Obama is not a powerful speaker
That is simply not true. I can't put it any differently.
Fuck, I will even say Hitler was a great speaker, and I cannot understand a fucking thing he said. Im sure it was something about loving the jews and being friends with the French.
Actually, the real orator was Goebbels.

[Desperado]

Glad to see you can think for yourself. I can pull a shit list about Obama from any of 1000 blogs and copy and paste too. Doesn't make it any more true, or you any less full of shit.


Ummm some people on this board need links to verify comments/statements from the politicians,or it doesnt exist.... Palin on Abortions ring any bells?

[Pax Britannia]

Cicero had his hand cut off and nailed to the Senate doors. I will say this though, Obama is a powerful speaker who seems to inspire those that wish to hear him and according to the most recent polls, its working.

Even though i'm a very conservative person when I hear people from the left like FDR or JFK they can captivate me. Even if their talking at the top of their voice about something that I spend my life opposing I can still appreciate the speech.

I just dont get that feeling with Obama. I think all this "Obama is a great orator" thing is just hype that has snowballed out of control.

[Gary_Busey]

I've seen him speak in person. He's pretty good.

[Desperado]

I've seen him speak in person. He's pretty good.


I also saw him when he came to Austin, very good indeed. But if you dont like what hes saying, you probably dont think very much of him.

[Archangel]

Catilina and Verres probably didn't much care for Cicero's rhetoric, either.

[Desperado]

Interesting find....


http://c.msn.com/c.gif?NC=1255&NA=1154&PS=73838&PI=7329&DI=305&TP=http%3a%2f%2fmsnbc.msn.com%2f
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/images/MSNBC/msnbc_ban.gif MSNBC.com
McCain tied to Iran-Contra group
Organization had ties to former Nazi collaborators, right-wing death squads
The Associated Press
updated 5:10 a.m. CT, Tues., Oct. 7, 2008

WASHINGTON - GOP presidential nominee John McCain has past connections to a private group that supplied aid to guerrillas seeking to overthrow the leftist government of Nicaragua in the Iran-Contra affair.
McCain's ties are facing renewed scrutiny after his campaign criticized Barack Obama for his link to a former radical who engaged in violent acts 40 years ago.
The U.S. Council for World Freedom was part of an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America. The group was dedicated to stamping out communism around the globe.
The council's founder, retired Army Maj. Gen. John Singlaub, said McCain became associated with the organization in the early 1980s as McCain was launching his political career in Arizona. Singlaub said McCain was a supporter but not an active member in the group.
'New guy on the block'
"McCain was a new guy on the block learning the ropes," Singlaub told The Associated Press in an interview. "I think I met him in the Washington area when he was just a new congressman. We had McCain on the board to make him feel like he wasn't left out. It looks good to have names on a letterhead who are well-known and appreciated.
"I don't recall talking to McCain at all on the work of the group," Singlaub said.
The renewed attention over McCain's association with Singlaub's group comes as McCain's campaign steps up criticism of Obama's dealings with William Ayers, a college professor who co-founded the Weather Underground and years later worked on education reform in Chicago alongside Obama. Ayers held a meet-the-candidate event at his home when Obama first ran for public office in the mid-1990s.
Obama was roughly 8 years old when Ayers, now at the University of Illinois at Chicago, was working with the Weather Underground, which took responsibility for bombings that included nonfatal blasts at the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol. McCain's vice presidential nominee, Sarah Palin, has said that Obama "pals around with terrorists."
In McCain's case, Singlaub knew McCain's father, a Navy admiral who had sought Singlaub's counsel when McCain, a Navy pilot, became a prisoner of war and spent 5 1/2 years in North Vietnamese hands.
"John's father asked me for advice about what he ought to do now that his son had been shot down and captured," Singlaub recalled in one of two recent interviews. "I said, 'As long as you don't give any impression that you care more about him than you care about any of the other prisoners, he won't be treated any differently.'"
Covert arms shipments
Covert arms shipments to the rebels called Contras, financed in part by secret arms sales to Iran, became known as the Iran-Contra affair. They proved to be the undoing of Singlaub's council.
In 1987, the Internal Revenue Service withdrew the tax-exempt status of Singlaub's group because of its activities on behalf of the Contras.
Elected to the House in 1982 and at a time when he was on the board of Singlaub's council, McCain was among Republicans on Capitol Hill expressing support for the Contras, a CIA-organized guerrilla force in Central America. In 1984, Congress cut off CIA funds for the Contras.
Months before the cutoff, top Reagan administration officials ramped up a secret White House-directed supply network and put National Security Council aide Oliver North in charge of running it. The goal was to keep the Contras operational until Congress could be persuaded to resume CIA funding.

Singlaub's private group became the public cover for the White House operation.
Secretly, Singlaub worked with North in an effort to raise millions of dollars from foreign governments.
McCain resignation?
McCain has said previously he resigned from the council in 1984 and asked in 1986 to have his name removed from the group's letterhead.
"I didn't know whether (the group's activity) was legal or illegal, but I didn't think I wanted to be associated with them," McCain said in a newspaper interview in 1986.
Singlaub does not recall any McCain resignation in 1984 or May 1986. Nor does Joyce Downey, who oversaw the group's day-to-day activities.
"That's a surprise to me," Singlaub said. "This is the first time I've ever heard that. There may have been someone in his office communicating with our office."
"I don't ever remember hearing about his resigning, but I really wasn't worried about that part of our activities, a housekeeping thing," said Singlaub. "If he didn't want to be on the board that's OK. It wasn't as if he had been active participant and we were going to miss his help. He had no active interest. He certainly supported us."

Copyright 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27062761/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27062761/)
MSN Privacy (http://mobile.msn.com/device/en-us/privacy.aspx) . Legal (http://mobile.msn.com/device/en-us/terms.aspx)
© 2008 MSNBC.com

[Claydon]

Hahaha soooo... you hate the sound of Southern Pastors then? I personally like the words he says... but hey, thats just me.

I hate the words of nearly all religious ass hats.

[Claydon]

That is simply not true. I can't put it any differently.



let me guess, you were one of the ass hats out there when he did his first foreign tour of his life?

then again europeans are easily swayed by fools, thousands of years of history back me up on this fact.

[Mustard]

then again europeans are easily swayed by fools, thousands of years of history back me up on this fact.
by this logic, americans are also easily swayed by fools *cough*W*cough*, and 8 years of history back me up on this fact.

[Claydon]

by this logic, americans are also easily swayed by fools *cough*W*cough*, and 8 years of history back me up on this fact.

I would not deny this, I never voted for W.

[Soup Nazi]

I would say hundreds of years of American history would back any Euro up in saying the same thing about the US.

[Mustard]

I would not deny this, I never voted for W....what? fuck you and your common sense.

[Nosebuckle]

Obama is not a powerful speaker, Obama merely uses the speaking style of a southern preacher....listen to him and then listen to a southern preachers sermon. The style is identical, Roosevelt was a great speaker, Kennedy was a great speaker, Reagan was a fantastic speaker, Obama merely emulates his former pastor. The pastor that apparently went from non hate speech to hate speech rapidly, at least according to Barry.
How the fuck is he not a powerful speaker? You don't have to agree with his agenda or even like the guy to acknowledge the influence he has had on people by listening to him speak. Isn't the fact that many people people have decided to vote for him based on his public appearances proof of this?

[Pax Britannia]

Common sense has become too prevelant in this thread for my liking. As such I humbly submit this:

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/Raptor08_2008/2008-09-25a.gif

[Claydon]

I would say hundreds of years of American history would back any Euro up in saying the same thing about the US.

I will take a nation of laws vs a nation of tradition any day of the week.

[kid_vidrio]

Cicero commanded the respect of the senate, do not ATTEMPT to hold obama up with Cicero. I am nauseated and disgusted by the very mention of obama in the same post as Cicero.
Obama Cicero Obama Cicero Obama Cicero Obama Cicero.

And you NEVER voted for Bush? Maybe not. You strike me as someone that licks the boot of the nearest winner.

[Claydon]

Obama Cicero Obama Cicero Obama Cicero Obama Cicero.

And you NEVER voted for Bush? Maybe not. You strike me as someone that licks the boot of the nearest winner.

And you strike me as a guy who loves to get spooged on their face.

Be that as it may, I do support some bush policies, Iraq being one of them.

[kid_vidrio]

And you strike me as a guy who loves to get spooged on their face.

Be that as it may, I do support some bush policies, Iraq being one of them.
Guilty. It is not uncommon that I take the final masterful lick of one of my woman friends and they squirt their full load on my face.

As for Iraq....I won't even go there. Name one more Bush policy you support.

[Archangel]

I will take a nation of laws vs a nation of tradition any day of the week.

Yeah, because we don't have laws here or anything.

[Stax]

Obama is not a powerful speaker, Obama merely uses the speaking style of a southern preacher....listen to him and then listen to a southern preachers sermon. The style is identical, Roosevelt was a great speaker, Kennedy was a great speaker, Reagan was a fantastic speaker, Obama merely emulates his former pastor. The pastor that apparently went from non hate speech to hate speech rapidly, at least according to Barry.

I have honestly never read anything stupider on the internet, Claydon.

ANYWHERE.

Obama lifts millions and millions of people using nothing but his words. That was you and the Republican Party's gripe about him, nothing but oratory, for months.

Seriously just shut the fuck up. YOU don't like him as a speaker? Fine. But suggesting that because you say so he is not a great speaker is just foolish.

[Pax Britannia]

Yeah, because we don't have laws here or anything.

Didnt you know the Magna Carta was written by Americans?

[Stax]

Whenever I see Candy Crowley I'm afraid she's going to consume the Earth, Jesus.

[Kerjack]

Which reminds me, Palin's winks are going to end up getting her raped while talking to foreign dignitaries.

*What?! I don't know English. She winked!*

I'm surprised we haven't heard feminists ripping her apart for the use of them.

[Stax]

I understand that these candidates aren't going to answer the question, but I'm pretty sure Obama took a question about "Who would you name as Treasury Secretary" and said "Buffett would be a decent choice, now here's two minutes of campaign speech" and McCain took a question on what the bailout did for normal people and basically spent his time saying "Obama sucks and Democrats are corrupt". Boyo glad this is a town hall format, so we can see random middle Americans asking questions that get promptly ignored and not just the moderator. :p

[Stax]

New drinking game to go with the "Palin saying Maverick" game. Whenever Obama says "middle class" or McCain says "cronyism" you take a drink.

[Ace Rockola]

I really want one of them to go "BOO!" to scare the shit out of the people asking them questions.

[Soup Nazi]

The way this debate is shaping up, I think my confidence in both candidates will be shattered.

EDIT: On another note, why would both campaigns agree to a rule that both are breaking constantly?

[Stax]

I still don't understand why people think McCain is better at this. Obama speaks in clear phrases, and yeah he goes off into rhetoric but so does McCain. The difference is he doesn't stutter and say "my friends" every ten seconds.

[Genius]

I fucking hate normal people. Normal people need to shut the fuck up. I can't watch this.

[Ace Rockola]

Where's the buzzer?

[Genius]

John McCain is a fucking gnome.

[Stax]

Where's the buzzer?

Apparently the buzzer is just Brokaw bitching EVERY SINGLE TIME they stop talking.

[Genius]

I'll shove an earmark into the middle of your night.

[Ace Rockola]

Apparently the buzzer is just Brokaw bitching EVERY SINGLE TIME they stop talking.

We're gonna have a bigger deficit than the Federal government! ZING!

[Ace Rockola]

Oh shit, Obama went 9/11 first. I'm kind of thunderstruck.

[Genius]

Oh shit, Obama went 9/11 first. I'm kind of thunderstruck.
Pre-emptive strike?

[Genius]

EVERYONE IS FUCKING WASTED!!!!!

[Ace Rockola]

Giuliani is not pleased.

[Genius]

George HW Bush didn't raise taxes during tough economic times?

[Stax]

George HW Bush didn't raise taxes during tough economic times?

Well yeah, but also every single review of Obama's tax policies have shown they cut taxes. Facts matter very little here.

[Genius]

Double analogy by Brokaw for the win!!! Ticking time bombs that eat things!!!

[Ace Rockola]

Well yeah, but also every single review of Obama's tax policies have shown they cut taxes. Facts matter very little here.

The Straight Talk Express lost a wheel.