2008 Election - Offseason

[Genius]

I know nothing about tax law. But after the last month, I'm pretty sure I could spell out both candidates' tax plans verbatim. And the lies that each tells about the other's.

[Ace Rockola]

McCain's best days are ahead of him? He's gotta wait til after 72 for his best days? That blows.

[Stax]

What was the 2nd thing that chick said? Climate change and "grain drops"??

[Ace Rockola]

Section C fails again

[Genius]

This crowd should be sent to Gitmo.

[kid_vidrio]

we bal laba vota lotta whatsa gotta sometim' botta.

[Stax]

we bal laba vota lotta whatsa gotta sometim' botta.

Everyone knows all political debates should be held in the REAL states, ie the original colonies. Fuck these crazy talking Ohio'ans. Who are they, the Iroquois?

[Ace Rockola]

The enthusiasm in this crowd rivals college football games.

[Ace Rockola]

Did McCain just sign "Who gives a shit?"?

[Kerjack]

YELLOW LIGHT!

[Soup Nazi]

TIME LIMIT MOTHERFUCKERS! TIME FUCKING LIMIT!

[Stax]

When they do the SNL spoof of this it's definitely going to be dominated by the Brokaw character yelling about time.

[Kerjack]

Did McCain just sign "Who gives a shit?"?

Probably, I was wondering what he was doing out there.

[Soup Nazi]

McCain with the subtle plug for Arizona healthcare! Take that Tennessee!

[Ace Rockola]

Hair transplant? Direct slap to Biden.

[Stax]

Hair transplant? Direct slap to Biden.

Yeah, that was kind of awkward.

[Stax]

Everyone knows all political debates should be held in the REAL states, ie the original colonies. Fuck these crazy talking Ohio'ans. Who are they, the Iroquois?

Shit, they aren't even in Ohio, they're in Tennessee. Silly me I assumed since CNN was using a sample of Ohio voters they were in Ohio, but that's a completely unrelated thing about it being a big battleground state.

[Ace Rockola]

The crowd is a good representation of Tennessee.

[Soup Nazi]

This is brewing into less of a debate, and more of a heavyweight title fight press conference or weigh-in.

[Stax]

Stop fucking thanking people for the questions. You know they suck, say so.

"Fuck you man, this is your ONE CHANCE to talk to us directly and you ask a stock, generic piece of shit?"

[Desperado]

I just showed up, whos winning?

[Kerjack]

I dunno, they both suck. Also like they said, so does the crowd.

[Stax]

I just showed up, whos winning?

Mattress salesmen because this will put you to sleep?

[Desperado]

Mattress salesmen because this will put you to sleep?


that makes me sad, I thought this one had a fist fight coming....

[Stax]

that makes me sad, I thought this one had a fist fight coming....

Hicks ask the questions, Obama darts around to make sure he looks at everyone, and McCain stumbles around and says "my friends" every 10 seconds. That's the difference between this and the first debate.

[CrazyCarl]

Mattress salesmen need you to have trouble sleeping

[Genius]

Hicks ask the questions, Obama darts around to make sure he looks at everyone, and McCain stumbles around and says "my friends" every 10 seconds. That's the difference between this and the first debate.
Snoozefest goes to the leader. Obama is the heavyweight in the ninth, making sure he avoids the Buster Douglass punch. McCain is just punch drunk.

[Desperado]

McCain stumbles around and says "my friends" every 10 seconds.


Ive counted 3 so far!!!

[Kerjack]

Yeah we are good at killing your nations stray dogs.

[kid_vidrio]

Well, my friends, we are a force for good.
But we must be cool at the tiller!
What are our limits? We, um, REAGAN, I stood up, Lebanon, REAGAN.
So, my friends, I just want to say, I can tell you, you are my first priority!

[Stax]

Mattress salesmen need you to have trouble sleeping

"My friends, I believe that here in the richest and most greatest nation in the world, America, we all have a fundamental right, nay, responsibility to find a comfortable place to lay down to sleep. I've been around this country a lot lately and a lot of people like you, a lot of middle class people, Main Street people, are telling me its harder and harder to fall asleep at night in America. We have to take a step back and look at our records. I have voted time and again to increase mattress subsidies for those in need in America. My opponent has voted 17 times to take mattresses out of the bed frames of everyday Americans like you and your family."

[Ace Rockola]

These people can't seriously be the ones that want to ask these questions.

[kid_vidrio]

Pok 'i' ston. FTW.

[Ace Rockola]

When I was a boy, Teddy Roosevelt would often say....

[Desperado]

hahaha follow up ftw!!!

[kid_vidrio]

I live 3 miles from TR's home.
No shit.
I've also been in Paaaaakistaaaaan and Afghaaaaaanistaaaaaaaaaan.
No shit.

Now that I think about it, I should be President.

[Kerjack]

Fuck it, I'm not watching this.

[Soup Nazi]

Well this has officially turned into a clusterfuck.

[nuclearjew]

Obama just kicked McCain in his hangy balls.

[Ace Rockola]

Is Pakistan Obama's nuclear?

[marquis]

Hicks ask the questions, Obama darts around to make sure he looks at everyone, and McCain stumbles around and says "my friends" every 10 seconds. That's the difference between this and the first debate.

Ive counted 3 so far!!!

I really glad I'm not playing a drinking game with "my friends" like I did with "Maverick." I have to work in the morning.

[Genius]

Paahkeestaahn.

[Genius]

I also have a plan to get Osama. I have to apologize to GMF, however, because I cannot share the details. If you elect me President, I'll be happy to let you in.

[Stax]

I also have a plan to get Osama. I have to apologize to GMF, however, because I cannot share the details. If you elect me President, I'll be happy to let you in.

I fuckin' LOVE Richard Nixon.

[Ace Rockola]

I heard more new things about Obama and McCain at the VP debate.

[Ace Rockola]

ONE WORD ANSWER!

[kid_vidrio]

Senator blowmama says 'no preconditions!'
uh uh uh
Let's be friends my friend. Again. I'm military!

[Ace Rockola]

How did what you don't know get turned into stories about mothers?

[kid_vidrio]

I know what it's like to be a post in a thread.

[Ace Rockola]

So when it's all said and done, Obama appeals to the youth, McCain appeals to the military. I could've told you that 6 months ago.

And McCain wanted ten of these town hall debates? There would've been the worst voting turn out ever.

[kid_vidrio]

David Gergen saying there wasn't much electricity.
Hilarious.
Like Dick Cheney saying there wasn't much humor.

[DjAg]

They stopped them every time it started getting good... Fucking a.

[kid_vidrio]

http://home.kc.rr.com/killspeed/campbell/Campbell%2520Brown%2520c6.jpg

[Desperado]

Cnn's analyst rep/dem are pretty much saying McCain lost.

[Philip Lombard]

According to CNN, uncommitted female voters in Ohio want to sex Obama.

[ADD]

Cnn's analyst rep/dem are pretty much saying McCain lost.

So is ABC

Why even have the election at this point? Just give the black man his parade already.

28 more days of Palin, thank god

[Desperado]

So is ABC

Why even have the election at this point? Just give the black man his parade already.

28 more days of Palin, thank god


QFT

[dadaelus]

So is ABC

Why even have the election at this point? Just give the black man his parade already.

28 more days of Palin, thank god

I skip the Palin wrecks and get caught up on Saturday Night with Tina Fey...

[ADD]

Part of me wishes it was the Tina Fey Palin on the ticket

[DjAg]

Part of me wishes it was the Tina Fey Palin on the ticket

Fuckin hell of a tag team

[dadaelus]

Tina I would vote for. You know that there is a mind under that chassis.

[DjAg]

Colbert Fey '12

Everyone wins.

[Fornicator]

Part of me wishes it was the Tina Fey Palin on the ticket

Yeah Baby! This just gave me a Fey / Palin fantasy. I need a tissue.

[Rover]

Obama was droppin' his Gs in his last answer when he was using folksy words like scrimpin'. Is that what a Columbia and Harvard education get you?

[Rover]

Cnn's analyst rep/dem are pretty much saying McCain lost.

So is ABC

Why even have the election at this point? Just give the black man his parade already.

28 more days of Palin, thank godWell, I'd be completely shocked, if they hadn't been openingly praying for an Obama victory for 10 months.

[Stax]

Well, I'd be completely shocked, if they hadn't been openingly praying for an Obama victory for 10 months.

Blah blah liberal conspiracy.

Why do you even post words anymore Rover? You could just post numbers and we'd use our Rover decoder ring for what you're bitching about.

[Debo]

This shit is done. McCain isn't running a campaign that is going to win in this environment.

He needs to run against congress, not Obama. Run with the "Throw the bums out" mantra and run it up their ass. They have a 9% approval rating, take advantage of it.

[Genius]

We might as well lock this thread. Barring a miracle or completely unforeseen collapse, this baby is over. Some polls are showing McCain with only a single digit lead in Arizona. It's gonna be brutal. Obama leads in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, AND Missouri? Three weeks ago, I was wondering whether he could take ONE of those states.

[Mustard]

I missed the debate. what'd i miss?

[Yelram]

Blah blah liberal conspiracy.

Why do you even post words anymore Rover? You could just post numbers and we'd use our Rover decoder ring for what you're bitching about.
Someones gotta come in here and break up this little liberal wankerfest.

[Yelram]

We might as well lock this thread. Barring a miracle or completely unforeseen collapse, this baby is over. Some polls are showing McCain with only a single digit lead in Arizona. It's gonna be brutal. Obama leads in Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, AND Missouri? Three weeks ago, I was wondering whether he could take ONE of those states.

They're setting it up so if Mccain wins they can pretend like there was some sort of voter fraud.

[Stax]

Someones gotta come in here and break up this little liberal wankerfest.

Liberal is the political opponent of conservative and is therefore no more offensive than the word conservative.

The use of the word liberal in such a manner implies a cheap, limited way of thinking about politics only in terms of popularized buzzwords.

[Genius]

They're setting it up so if Mccain wins they can pretend like there was some sort of voter fraud.
I'm sure the McCain camp will claim that white people were disenfranchised because black people actually voted.

[DjAg]

They're setting it up so if Mccain wins they can pretend like there was some sort of voter fraud.

pretend? I'm not sure pretending is necessary, regardless of who wins by how much.

[Yelram]

Liberal is the political opponent of conservative and is therefore no more offensive than the word conservative.

The use of the word liberal in such a manner implies a cheap, limited way of thinking about politics only in terms of popularized buzzwords.

Popularized buzzwords? I'm talking GMF compared to the general population is a fucking liberal circle-jerk. If you take offense to being called a liberal, maybe you ought to re-examine your political position.

[Stax]

Popularized buzzwords? I'm talking GMF compared to the general population is a fucking liberal circle-jerk. If you take offense to being called a liberal, maybe you ought to re-examine your political position.

I don't. But you are using liberal as an offensive term. True liberalism is a political theory espoused by political theorists throughout history, just like conservatism. The jingoistic nature of modern politics makes calling someone liberal insulting, which is foolish and cheap.

[Yelram]

I don't. But you are using liberal as an offensive term. True liberalism is a political theory espoused by political theorists throughout history, just like conservatism. The jingoistic nature of modern politics makes calling someone liberal insulting, which is foolish and cheap.
We just dont invent new words like you guys do. I could call you a neo-marxist, but that just doesnt have the same ring.

[Stax]

We just dont invent new words like you guys do. I could call you a neo-marxist, but that just doesnt have the same ring.

Of course progressive is a bullshit term (though its worth noting that progressives who held similar view points have existed for ages, in fact raising their own party at one point), but a necessity because Republicans have managed to corrupt the word liberal in the American dialect.

[Das Kahlua]

I don't. But you are using liberal as an offensive term. True liberalism is a political theory espoused by political theorists throughout history, just like conservatism. The jingoistic nature of modern politics makes calling someone liberal insulting, which is foolish and cheap.

Ok, then the media, or whomever you and Rover were referring to, are a bunch of ignorant assholes who talk out of their asses without a basis in any true political philosophy, since you don't like them being referred to as 'liberals.'


Are you happy, now?

[Stax]

Ok, then the media, or whomever you and Rover were referring to, are a bunch of ignorant assholes who talk out of their asses without a basis in any true political philosophy, since you don't like them being referred to as 'liberals.'


Are you happy, now?

No. Whether or not (and if so how) the media is biased is a whole other kettle of fish. My issue here is that, to use your post, "bunch of ignorant assholes who talk out of their asses without a basis in any true political philosophy" means the same thing to you as "liberal".

[Das Kahlua]

No. Whether or not (and if so how) the media is biased is a whole other kettle of fish. My issue here is that, to use your post, "bunch of ignorant assholes who talk out of their asses without a basis in any true political philosophy" means the same thing to you as "liberal".

No. You said, and I quote: "True liberalism is a political theory espoused by political theorists throughout history, just like conservatism."

Looking back on the historical context of 'liberalism,' and by extension the modern day Democratic Party, through the course of US History, modern day liberals are very different than liberals from 60 years ago. FDR and Truman, the beliefs and positions that they represented are in some ways similar to Obama's, but in other ways very different.

If people do not represent the same ideas of historical 'liberalism,' how would you refer to them? Would they still be 'liberals,' or would they be frauds, if they wrapped themselves in that name, but didn't follow those tenets?

[Stax]

No. You said, and I quote: "True liberalism is a political theory espoused by political theorists throughout history, just like conservatism."

Looking back on the historical context of 'liberalism,' and by extension the modern day Democratic Party, through the course of US History, modern day liberals are very different than liberals from 60 years ago. FDR and Truman, the beliefs and positions that they represented are in some ways similar to Obama's, but in other ways very different.

If people do not represent the same ideas of historical 'liberalism,' how would you refer to them? Would they still be 'liberals,' or would they be frauds, if they wrapped themselves in that name, but didn't follow those tenets?

He is liberals in the same way that McCain is a 'conservative'. Half the things McCain puts out there would make McKinley turn over in his grave.

I don't mind when a philosophy changes over time, that's how politics works. I don't like when one side tries to (or in this case succeeds) in making the simple term for a philosophy somehow dirty. "Liberal" now means some yuppy sipping coffee disconnected from the real world. "Environmentalist" means a tree hugging crazy. If you want to take issue with the philosophies, do so, but please do it on a higher level than that.

[Das Kahlua]

He is liberals in the same way that McCain is a 'conservative'. Half the things McCain puts out there would make McKinley turn over in his grave.

I don't mind when a philosophy changes over time, that's how politics works. I don't like when one side tries to (or in this case succeeds) in making the simple term for a philosophy somehow dirty. "Liberal" now means some yuppy sipping coffee disconnected from the real world. "Environmentalist" means a tree hugging crazy. If you want to take issue with the philosophies, do so, but please do it on a higher level than that.

Ok, well you've clearly never been called 'a conservative' or 'a Bush lover' with the venom that I thought Americans only held for OBL or Yankees fans...

There is plenty of hatred on all sides of the political spectrum...those people are all assholes, especially when they try to either force their opinions on others, or try to keep people from expressing their own opinions.

Next time you think that only 'right wingers' are the only ones who try to repress freedom of speech, hang out with people from Greenpeace or MoveOn.org and see those psychos at work.

[Deadhead Derek]

We just dont invent new words like you guys do. I could call you a neo-marxist, but that just doesnt have the same ring.
"They misunderestimated me." —G. W. Bush, Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

Nope, never.....

[TheImpossibleMan]

I guarantee that 99% of papers in states that voted for Obama will carry the headline "YES WE CAN" on Nov 3.

[halfabubbleoff]

I missed the debate. what'd i miss?


I want to break up the flame war, so I will answer Sink.

Did you see the first debate? If so, then you didn't miss anything.

Obama stayed calm and even. he ran long on his answers, repeated the same positions and arguments from the last debate, but added some detail to his health care plan.

McCain walked around more, made eye contact with the audience (and Obama), made some bad jokes and was more agressive in attacking Obama.

The big change from Debate 1 was that McCain came out with more details and hard numbers in his answers. The big surprise of the night was McCain's statement that he would direct the Federal Government to buy the "bad home loans" and renegotiate them with the home owner to prevent foreclosure. That has not been part of his stump speech up to last night.

Personally, I was let down. There was nothing really new. McCain did not slam it home or do anything to really change the race as a whole. I would score the whole thing as a tie. Unfortunately, that almost equates a loss for McCain. He needed a big win last night and it didn't happen. I saw him as being angry, bitter and a bit childish in some of his jabs at Obama. Both sides repeated the same half truths they have been telling the entire campaign (although the fact check sites I have seen score Obama higher on the "truth-o-meter" at this point). Most distressing for me was watching McCain. I was excited coming into this that he was finally getting his town hall debate and would show energy and some of that McCain 2000 Maverick I have been missing. Alas, I saw the "Hall of Presidents" McCain again. I don't know if it was the lighting or what, but he couldn't stop blinking when he spoke. You could see memebers of teh audience looking away, or blinking themselves as he spoke to them.

OK, Sink, there is your 25 cent recap and unsolicited editorial on the debate. Hope you enjoyed it.

[Smokestack]

Let's put the Ayers shit to bed:

Is John McCain Supported By Terrorist Supporters? Nah. (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html)

Posted by Michael Scherer | Comments (80) (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html#comments) | Permalink (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html) | Trackbacks (0) (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html#trackbacks) | Email This (http://time-blog.com/swampland/#)
This morning John McCain put out a list of 100 former ambassadors (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/1b838127-b4a0-4868-9906-62f555376089.htm) who are supporting his campaign. Number two is Leonore Annenberg, the wife (http://www.answers.com/topic/walter-annenberg) of Ambassador William Annenberg, the founder of the Annenberg Institute of Reform (http://www.annenberginstitute.org/About/history.php), which funded the Annenberg Challenge (http://www.annenberginstitute.org/Challenge/), which once had two famous board members: former "domestic terrorist" William Ayers and Sen. Barack Obama.
So either we should all be outraged that John McCain is supported by a family who funded a foundation that hired a domestic terrorist, or this whole William Ayers thing is just plain silly. I choose the latter.

[halfabubbleoff]

I will second Smokestack's vote for "just plain silly".

Do I hear any objections?

[Rover]

Let's put the Ayers shit to bed:

Is John McCain Supported By Terrorist Supporters? Nah. (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html)

Posted by Michael Scherer | Comments (80) (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html#comments) | Permalink (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html) | Trackbacks (0) (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/is_john_mccain_supported_by_te.html#trackbacks) | Email This (http://time-blog.com/swampland/#)
This morning John McCain put out a list of 100 former ambassadors (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/1b838127-b4a0-4868-9906-62f555376089.htm) who are supporting his campaign. Number two is Leonore Annenberg, the wife (http://www.answers.com/topic/walter-annenberg) of Ambassador William Annenberg, the founder of the Annenberg Institute of Reform (http://www.annenberginstitute.org/About/history.php), which funded the Annenberg Challenge (http://www.annenberginstitute.org/Challenge/), which once had two famous board members: former "domestic terrorist" William Ayers and Sen. Barack Obama.
So either we should all be outraged that John McCain is supported by a family who funded a foundation that hired a domestic terrorist, or this whole William Ayers thing is just plain silly. I choose the latter.

I will second Smokestack's vote for "just plain silly".

Do I hear any objections?Yes. I love how that article puts "domestic terrorist" in quotes, like that wasn't Ayers' actual profession for about 5 years of his life.

Obama's association with Ayers is disgusting. Ayers is a treasoness, murderous, vile person. To associate with a man who DECLARED WAR on the United States government is digraceful. The only reaon Ayers isn't in jail or dead is because the FBI was too aggressive in trying to protect us from bomb throwing, domestic terrorists.

The question making the rounds on talk radio is: What do Osama bin Laden and Barack Obama have in common?

They both know someone who has bombed the Pentagon.

To have a campaign meeting in Ayers' home to show Ayers' support for Obama is horrible. And Obama's excuse, "I didn't know what he'd done before," is terrible. He doesn't hear Jeremiah Wright's racist hatred; he doesn't know Ayers used to be a domestic terrorist, who declared war on the United States. Obama's either lying to everyone's face, or he's the worst judge of character in the history of the world.

Ayers is just another example of Obama's association with far Left groups that are rejected by the mainstream of American society. Rev. Wright teaching that whitey is the devil; Bill Ayers teaching how to overthrow the government by indoctrinating students in Socialism; ACORN committing voter fraud throughout the country. And the list goes on.

[DjAg]

I didn't think it was possible, but I truly do feel dumber after reading that...

[Desperado]

Here is a better version of the article i previously linked...

McCain linked to group in Iran-Contra affair
By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer Tue Oct 7, 7:53 PM ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_iran_contra

WASHINGTON - Barack Obama has his William Ayers connection. Now John McCain may have an Iran-Contra connection. In the 1980s, McCain served on the advisory board to the U.S. chapter of an international group linked to ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America.

The U.S. Council for World Freedom aided rebels trying to overthrow the leftist government of Nicaragua. That landed the group in the middle of the Iran-Contra affair and in legal trouble with the Internal Revenue Service, which revoked the charitable organization's tax exemption.
The council created by retired Army Maj. Gen. John Singlaub was the U.S. chapter of the World Anti-Communist League, an international organization linked to former Nazi collaborators and ultra-right-wing death squads in Central America. After setting up the U.S. council, Singlaub served as the international league's chairman.
McCain's tie to Singlaub's council is undergoing renewed scrutiny after his campaign criticized Obama for his link to Ayers, a former radical who engaged in violent acts 40 years ago. Over the weekend, Democratic operative Paul Begala said on ABC's "This Week" that this "guilt by association" tactic could backfire on the McCain campaign by renewing discussion of McCain's service on the board of the U.S. Council for World Freedom, "an ultraconservative right-wing group."
In two interviews with The Associated Press in August and September, Singlaub said McCain became associated with the organization in the early 1980s as McCain launched his political career. McCain was elected to the House in 1982.
Singlaub said McCain was a supporter but not an active member.
"McCain was a new guy on the block learning the ropes," Singlaub said. "I think I met him in the Washington area when he was just a new congressman. We had McCain on the board to make him feel like he wasn't left out. It looks good to have names on a letterhead who are well-known and appreciated.
"I don't recall talking to McCain at all on the work of the group," Singlaub said.
McCain has said he resigned from the council in 1984 and asked in 1986 to have his name removed from the group's letterhead.
"I didn't know whether (the group's activity) was legal or illegal, but I didn't think I wanted to be associated with them," McCain said in a 1986 newspaper interview.
Singlaub does not recall any McCain resignation in 1984 or May 1986. Nor does Joyce Downey, who oversaw the group's day-to-day activities.
"That's a surprise to me," Singlaub said. "This is the first time I've ever heard that. There may have been someone in his office communicating with our office."
"I don't ever remember hearing about his resigning, but I really wasn't worried about that part of our activities, a housekeeping thing," said Singlaub. "If he didn't want to be on the board that's OK. It wasn't as if he had been active participant and we were going to miss his help. He had no active interest. He certainly supported us."
A news article and two documents tie McCain to the council in 1985, a year after he says he resigned. The group's Internal Revenue Service filing in 1985, covering the previous year, lists McCain as a member of the council's advisory board. In October 1985, a States News Service report placed McCain, Rep. Tom Loeffler, R-Texas, and an Arizona congressman at a Washington awards ceremony staged by the council.
On Tuesday, the McCain campaign addressed the resignation by saying the candidate disassociated himself from "one Arizona-based group when questions were raised about its activities."
Taking an opportunity to attack the Obama-Biden ticket, the McCain campaign added that as a House member and later as a senator, McCain fought against communist influence in Central America while Sen. Joe Biden tried to cut off money for anti-communist forces in El Salvador and Nicaragua.
The renewed attention over McCain's association with Singlaub's group comes as his campaign steps up criticism of Obama's dealings with Ayers, now a college professor who co-founded the Weather Underground in the 1960s and years later worked with Obama on the board of an education reform group in Chicago. Ayers held a meet-the-candidate event at his home when Obama first ran for public office in the mid-1990s.

In McCain's case, he was a House member and a board member of Singlaub's council when, as a new congressman, he voted for military assistance to the Nicaraguan Contras, a CIA-organized guerrilla force. In 1984, Congress cut off military assistance to the rebels.
Months before the cutoff, top Reagan administration officials ramped up a secret White House-directed supply network run by national security advisers Robert McFarlane and John Poindexter. The operation's day-to-day activities were handled by National Security Council aide Oliver North, who relied on retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Richard Secord to carry out the operation. The goal was to keep the Contras operating until Congress could be persuaded to resume CIA funding.
Singlaub's private group became the public front for the secret White House activity.
"It was noted that they were trying to act as suppliers. It was pretty good cover for us," Secord, the field operations chief for the secret effort, said Tuesday in an interview.
The White House-directed network's covert arms shipments, financed in part by the Reagan administration's secret arms sales to Iran, exploded into the Iran-Contra affair in November 1986. The scandal proved to be the undoing of Singlaub's council.
In 1987, the IRS withdrew tax-exempt status from Singlaub's group because of its activities on behalf of the Contras.
Peter Kornbluh, co-author of "The Iran-Contra Scandal: A Declassified History," said the Council on World Freedom was crucial to diverting public attention from the Reagan White House's fundraising for the Contras.
Singlaub and the council publicly urged private support for the Contras, providing what Singlaub later called "a lightning rod" to explain how the rebels sustained themselves despite Congress' cutoff.
In October 1986, the secrecy of North's network unraveled after one of its planes was shot down over Nicaragua. One American crewman, Eugene Hasenfus, was captured by the Nicaraguan government. At first, Reagan administration officials lied by saying that the plane had no connection to the U.S. government and was part of Singlaub's operation.
"I resented it that reporters thought it was my plane. I don't run a sloppy operation," Singlaub told The AP.
In an interview last month, Downey, the full-time employee of Singlaub's council, said she has a clear memory of McCain resigning in 1986, but not earlier.
"It was during the time when the U.S. Council had been wrongly accused of being owners of the Hasenfus plane downed in Nicaragua," said Downey. "A couple of days after that, I was in Washington and called home to get messages from my mother. I returned that call and a staff person wanted to ask for the resignation of Congressman McCain."
When Hasenfus was shot down, McCain was in the final month of his first campaign for the Senate seat he still holds.
McCain's office responded quickly. McCain said he had resigned from the council in 1984. Further, McCain said that in May 1986 he asked the group to remove his name from the letterhead. McCain's office produced two letters from 1984 and 1986 to back his account.
The dates on the resignation letters in 1984 and May 1986 coincided with McCain election campaigns and increasingly critical public scrutiny of the World Anti-Communist League, the umbrella group Singlaub chaired.
In 1983 and 1984 for example, columnist Jack Anderson linked the league's Latin American affiliate to death squad political assassinations.
The Latin American affiliate was kicked out of the league. At the time, Singlaub told the columnist the Latin American affiliate had "knowingly promoted pro-Nazi groups" and was "virulently anti-Semitic."
"That was putting it mildly," Anderson wrote in a Sept. 11, 1984, column on alleged death squad murders, an article that appeared two months before the U.S. election day.
Two weeks after Anderson's column, a letter from McCain addressed to Singlaub asks that the congressman's name be taken off the board because he didn't have time for the council. Singlaub told AP that "certainly by 1984," he had purged the World Anti-Communist League of extremists. Singlaub complains that American news media wrote that the league hadn't gotten rid of extremist elements and tried to tarnish the league's credibility, "making something evil out of fighting communism."

[Rover]

I didn't think it was possible, but I truly do feel dumber after reading that...I don't suppose you'd care to elaborate? You can say his association with these groups and people don't matter, but you can't deny he associated with them.

[Desperado]

Obama's either lying to everyone's face, or he's the worst judge of character in the history of the world.


What cracks me up about this statement is you think thats a bad judge of character? However McCain has shown the best judge of character with Charles Keating right and now this contra business resurfaces... care to explain? Also now that you have an article about mccains mortgage plan, how does it sit with you?

[Claydon]

What cracks me up about this statement is you think thats a bad judge of character? However McCain has shown the best judge of character with Charles Keating right and now this contra business resurfaces... care to explain? Also now that you have an article about mccains mortgage plan, how does it sit with you?

the ethics committee completely absolved mccain of any wrong doing.

[Smokestack]

Yes. I love how that article puts "domestic terrorist" in quotes, like that wasn't Ayers' actual profession for about 5 years of his life.

Obama's association with Ayers is disgusting. Ayers is a treasoness, murderous, vile person. To associate with a man who DECLARED WAR on the United States government is digraceful. The only reaon Ayers isn't in jail or dead is because the FBI was too aggressive in trying to protect us from bomb throwing, domestic terrorists.

The question making the rounds on talk radio is: What do Osama bin Laden and Barack Obama have in common?

They both know someone who has bombed the Pentagon.

To have a campaign meeting in Ayers' home to show Ayers' support for Obama is horrible. And Obama's excuse, "I didn't know what he'd done before," is terrible. He doesn't hear Jeremiah Wright's racist hatred; he doesn't know Ayers used to be a domestic terrorist, who declared war on the United States. Obama's either lying to everyone's face, or he's the worst judge of character in the history of the world.

Ayers is just another example of Obama's association with far Left groups that are rejected by the mainstream of American society. Rev. Wright teaching that whitey is the devil; Bill Ayers teaching how to overthrow the government by indoctrinating students in Socialism; ACORN committing voter fraud throughout the country. And the list goes on.

This post was quite the feat. You're grasping at straws, displaying some remarkably selective outrage, and ignoring the McCain campaign's own connection to Ayers all at once. While Ayers' actions might have been disgusting, what's absolutely nauseating is the conflation of Ayers and Bin-Laden. A terr'ist is a terr'ist is a terr'ist, I guess, for the mouthbreathers of the world. And Wright's "racist hatred"? Yeah, the guy has some far out views, but to attribute "racist hatred" to him is assinine and ignorant.

If you think Barack Obama has designs to blow up the Pentagon or kill whitey, then make your case. Otherwise, stop insinuating it through association and move the fuck along.

I don't suppose you'd care to elaborate? You can say his association with these groups and people don't matter, but you can't deny he associated with them.

God, there you go again with the "association" garbage.

[Desperado]

I didnt say he was guilty Claydon... However in his own words it was a horrible mistake that he made. Now... the guilt by association that is being played on Obama is more about what i was talking about.

[DjAg]

I don't suppose you'd care to elaborate? You can say his association with these groups and people don't matter, but you can't deny he associated with them.

Guilty by association is one of the shittiest ideas in the world. It's kind of like saying that a girl I know is somewhat guilty for her father's pedophilia collection (that landed him 3 years in prison). She's associated to him, she was raised by him, she's totally guilty in some way of being a pedophile. Yeeaaaa. Did I mention he was a 7th grade Science teacher? That whole building is now infected! And shit, if the 6 degrees of separation theory really is true, we are all pedophiles! NOOOOOooOO!1!

Now it would be different if he started to defend the guy, then it would be him trying to justify the wrong-doings of another rather than simply being associated to someone.

Plus anyways, there are no greater terrorists than US politicians to begin with. Inciting fear and terror among the masses is nothing new, and is absurdly prevalent in today's US politics. I'd say a domestic terrorist is less threatening than an old dude deceiving a nation of idiots.

[TheImpossibleMan]

The best part was when Rover compared Obama to bin Laden.

[Rover]

What cracks me up about this statement is you think thats a bad judge of character? However McCain has shown the best judge of character with Charles Keating right and now this contra business resurfaces... care to explain? Also now that you have an article about mccains mortgage plan, how does it sit with you?McCain has called it the worst mistake of his life. McCain is very forward with admitting his errors, whether it's with Keating or the dissolution of his first marriage. Admitting you're wrong is a big deal. He's even said that breaking during torture was something he's felt bad about. I have zero problems with McCain's character and judgement.

The Senate ethics committee found nothing wrong with McCain, other than an error in judgement. He shouldn't have gone to the meeting even if all he did was to go to say it wasn't right. Also, the investigator for the Keating scadal said that McCain and John Glenn shouldn't have been accused of anything, and the only reason he was is because he was the only Republican in a Democrat filled scandal.

I'm still skeptical of the mortgage plan.

[Pharon]

I think Palin was the worst mistake of his life.

[IdiotBrain]

My biggest problem with Obama would be his foreign policy as far as Israel is concerned.

I'll vote for McCain based solely on his likelihood to support Israel more firmly that Obama, and the fact that a strong supporter of public firearms ownership.

[Desperado]

McCain has called it the worst mistake of his life. McCain is very forward with admitting his errors, whether it's with Keating or the dissolution of his first marriage. Admitting you're wrong is a big deal. He's even said that breaking during torture was something he's felt bad about. I have zero problems with McCain's character and judgement.
.


However Obamas so called bad judgement is unforgivable to you.... well i guess thats just where you and I disagree.

[The Batman]

McCain has called it the worst mistake of his life. McCain is very forward with admitting his errors, whether it's with Keating or the dissolution of his first marriage. Admitting you're wrong is a big deal. He's even said that breaking during torture was something he's felt bad about. I have zero problems with McCain's character and judgement.

I wish he would admit bad judgement about the war in Iraq instead of always talking about how the surge worked.

[Rover]

This post was quite the feat. You're grasping at straws, displaying some remarkably selective outrage, and ignoring the McCain campaign's own connection to Ayers all at once. While Ayers' actions might have been disgusting, what's absolutely nauseating is the conflation of Ayers and Bin-Laden. A terr'ist is a terr'ist is a terr'ist, I guess, for the mouthbreathers of the world. And Wright's "racist hatred"? Yeah, the guy has some far out views, but to attribute "racist hatred" to him is assinine and ignorant.Okay, what do you believe is the difference between bin Laden's form of terrorism and Ayers'? And yes, I do believe a terrorist is a terrorist. McVeigh, bin Laden, Ayers, the IRA, Hezbollah, all of them. Unless, you are able to convince me with a reasonable way to distinguish them by labeling some of their causes as worthwhile.

Yes. Wright is filled with racism and hatred. He hates the white run government and accused them of genocide against the black race. I think that qualifies him as a racist, hate-monger.

If you think Barack Obama has designs to blow up the Pentagon or kill whitey, then make your case. Otherwise, stop insinuating it through association and move the fuck along.No. I don't think he has plans to blow up any government buildings. However, he has no problem having coffee and working with people who do.

Guilty by association is one of the shittiest ideas in the world. It's kind of like saying that a girl I know is somewhat guilty for her father's pedophilia collection (that landed him 3 years in prison). She's associated to him, she was raised by him, she's totally guilty in some way of being a pedophile. Yeeaaaa. Did I mention he was a 7th grade Science teacher? That whole building is now infected! And shit, if the 6 degrees of separation theory really is true, we are all pedophiles! NOOOOOooOO!1!

Now it would be different if he started to defend the guy, then it would be him trying to justify the wrong-doings of another rather than simply being associated to someone.

Plus anyways, there are no greater terrorists than US politicians to begin with. Inciting fear and terror among the masses is nothing new, and is absurdly prevalent in today's US politics. I'd say a domestic terrorist is less threatening than an old dude deceiving a nation of idiots.It depends on the level of the association. Haven't you ever heard that: You're judged by the company you keep.

Just because you know a domestic terrorist isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, when you launch your political career in his living room and work closely with him on education issues that he (Ayers) believes with help overthrow the government by indoctrinating Socialism. That's another level of association.

The best part was when Rover compared Obama to bin Laden.That's not me. That's talk radio.

[kareyn01]

the ethics committee completely absolved mccain of any wrong doing.

You do realize that John McCain said "I was guilty" in reference to the Keating/S&L Scandal situation, right?

[Archangel]

My biggest problem with Obama would be his foreign policy as far as Israel is concerned.

I'll vote for McCain based solely on his likelihood to support Israel more firmly that Obama, and the fact that a strong supporter of public firearms ownership.

Define "supporting Israel".


Because I support Israel, too. But there's a not so fine line between standing up for one's friend and standing by when that friend goes on a killing spree. God knows that I'm not a fan of Muslims, but bombing the hell out of a country because of two kidnapped soldiers? I know, especially as a German, how neurotic Israel is regarding matters of national security, but when your friend and ally goes overboard, it is your duty, as a friend and ally, to tell him that he's not helping the situation, not egg him on and pass him some more ammo.

I support the safety and security of the state of Israel. Jewish settlers on the West Bank, however, are the worst type of scum, and I wouldn't move a finger or shed a tear if the whole lot was being killed. Remember that it was one of those fucktards that murdered Rabin and set back the peace process by 40 years.

[kareyn01]

I created the appearance of impropriety so it was my -- I was guilty, and therefore did not represent the people of my state in the manner which they expected of me. [CNN, Larry King, 10/12/02]
The biggest mistake that I made in my life was attending a meeting with four other senators and four regulators because of the appearance of impropriety, and it is something that will always be a mark on my record, and something that people will judge me for the rest of my life. [GOP Presidential Primary Debate, 1/7/00]
Despite my recovery, the Keating Five experience was not one that I have walked away from as easily as I have other bad times. Twelve years after its conclusion, I still wince thinking about it and find that if I do not repress the memory, its recollection still provokes a vague but real feeling that I had lost something very important, something that was sacrificed in the pursuit of gratifying ambitions, my own and others', and that I might never possess again as assuredly as I once had. [McCain, Worth the Fighting For Page 204]

John McCain, in his own words, about the S&L scandal and Charles Keating.

Edit: And if you're interested, we can also look at the fact that McCain told Charles Wallace that he was "guilty of war crimes" for intentionally bombing women and children in Vietnam. If the McCain campaign wants to go down the character assassination path, there are some ghosts in McCain's closet that are going to be a problem.

[Morfin]

The best part was when Rover compared Obama to bin Laden.



That's not me. That's talk radio.

Repeating what was heard on talk radio. Way to really validate your argument there, Rover.

[Rover]

However Obamas so called bad judgement is unforgivable to you.... well i guess thats just where you and I disagree.Obama is displaying a tendency to associate with groups that are out of the mainstream. He only criticized Wright when it began to be a huge problem. And then he doesn't admit that he's heard Wright say anything that controversial. Instead he says he's been there 20 years and never heard anything like that.

It's a half apology. Filled with half truths.

He hasn't said anything really critical of Ayers, except that his terrorist acts of 40 years ago were horrible, and not relevant to the man Ayers is today. Again, this is a half truth apology.

Everything is forgivable. Redemption is always possible. If Obama would admit that his association with Wright and Ayers was politically necessary to advance in Chicago politics, I'd probably stop caring about it. I'd continue to think that Obama is just another political hack, but I'd stop caring about the racist preachers and domestic terrorists he hangs out with.

[kareyn01]

Obama is displaying a tendency to associate with groups that are out of the mainstream. He only criticized Wright when it began to be a huge problem. And then he doesn't admit that he's heard Wright say anything that controversial. Instead he says he's been there 20 years and never heard anything like that.

It's a half apology. Filled with half truths.

He hasn't said anything really critical of Ayers, except that his terrorist acts of 40 years ago were horrible, and not relevant to the man Ayers is today. Again, this is a half truth apology.

Everything is forgivable. Redemption is always possible. If Obama would admit that his association with Wright and Ayers was politically necessary to advance in Chicago politics, I'd probably stop caring about it. I'd continue to think that Obama is just another political hack, but I'd stop caring about the racist preachers and domestic terrorists he hangs out with.

But yet you continue to not care about the racist preachers (John Hagee, Jerry Falwell) and domestic terrorists (Joe Vogler) that McCain and and Palin hang out with? I'm fine with you having doubts about who our political leaders associate (as you should), but you've got to stop having such a double standard about it.

[Gary_Busey]

Ayers is just another example of Obama's association with far Left groups that are rejected by the mainstream of American society.
So far left they ended up on the right.


Regardless of his background, it was never a problem for anyone — including Republicans and Chicago's most powerful business leaders — to work with Ayers on Chicago's public schools. In fact, Ayers is widely respected in the field of urban education.
"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95442902

[Rover]

You cannot compare Joe Volger to Bill Ayers. That's a huge jump. They were both extreme in their ideology, but Volger advocated change through political parties and elections. Both allowed under the Constitution. Ayers advocated change by bombing government building, attacking government officials, and declaring open war against the government.

I did a quick search to see if Volger or AIP were linked to any bombings, but couldn't find any. If you have proof of their terrorism, I'd be interested. Peaceful revolution, no matter how extreme the rhetoric is fine; Violent revolution is unacceptable.

I think McCain is quite obvious that his pandering to the relgious right is clearly pandering.

[Smokestack]

Okay, what do you believe is the difference between bin Laden's form of terrorism and Ayers'? And yes, I do believe a terrorist is a terrorist. McVeigh, bin Laden, Ayers, the IRA, Hezbollah, all of them. Unless, you are able to convince me with a reasonable way to distinguish them by labeling some of their causes as worthwhile.

You don't see the difference between hijacking 4 airplanes and using them as missiles towards buildings full of people and the setting off of bombs that killed people in the single digits? You don't see the difference in a worldwide terrorist network and the Weather Underground? That, my friends, in moral equivalency we can believe in.

Yes. Wright is filled with racism and hatred. He hates the white run government and accused them of genocide against the black race. I think that qualifies him as a racist, hate-monger.

Got it, you were referring to the "white run government" and not white people in general. So, when you rail against Nancy Pelosi or Barney Frank, does that make you a sexist, homophobic hate-monger? That Rev. Wright must have really been breaking some new ground there to complain about the government, eh? And, in cased you missed it, most governments do have a genocidal past and sometimes present.

No. I don't think he has plans to blow up any government buildings. However, he has no problem having coffee and working with people who do.

And what of the McCain campaign taking donations and endorsements from people who knowingly associate with Ayers? Look, I know Ayers' past offends you terribly but that past does not make any and all present and future actions he undertakes as the acts of a terr'ist and therefore worthy of shunning and nothing else. I'm not giving up waffles just because William Ayers enjoys them on Sundays.

[kareyn01]

You cannot compare Joe Volger to Bill Ayers. That's a huge jump. They were both extreme in their ideology, but Volger advocated change through political parties and elections. Both allowed under the Constitution. Ayers advocated change by bombing government building, attacking government officials, and declaring open war against the government.

I did a quick search to see if Volger or AIP were linked to any bombings, but couldn't find any. If you have proof of their terrorism, I'd be interested. Peaceful revolution, no matter how extreme the rhetoric is fine; Violent revolution is unacceptable.

I think McCain is quite obvious that his pandering to the relgious right is clearly pandering.

The man was killed in a "plastic explosives sale gone bad" (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE3DB153CF936A25753C1A9629582 60). I'd say that's a pretty good link to bombings. Hell, if you don't want to compare him to Ayers, compare him to Wright. Vogler said the following:

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag. I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

[Smokestack]

Peaceful revolution, no matter how extreme the rhetoric is fine; Violent revolution is unacceptable.


Tell that to the Sons of Liberty.

[Hanover Fist]

I'm guessing that this guy won't ever be asked to introduce anyone in the Democratic party again. I think it's hilarious that after he fucks up like he does, the crowd still goes nuts. He could have said "here is a great big bucket of shit for you to eat" and they probably would have cheered.
hPywKOTQZig&eurl

[kareyn01]

What about McCain, who at a rally today said "my fellow prisoners".

JYFm5kK4f1k

[Desperado]

I'm guessing that this guy won't ever be asked to introduce anyone in the Democratic party again. I think it's hilarious that after he fucks up like he does, the crowd still goes nuts. He could have said "here is a great big bucket of shit for you to eat" and they probably would have cheered.
hPywKOTQZig&eurl



hahahahahaha dude... that is fucking hilarious.

[Pax Britannia]

He'll never live that down.

[Rover]

So far left they ended up on the right.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95442902
I'll condemn anyone who is a direct associate of Bill Ayers.

Here's an article that sums up why I think Ayers is dangerous.

...at a November 2006 education forum in Caracas, Venezuela, with President Hugo Chávez at his side, Ayers proclaimed his support for “the profound educational reforms under way here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chávez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution. . . . I look forward to seeing how you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane.” Ayers concluded his speech by declaring that “Venezuela is poised to offer the world a new model of education—a humanizing and revolutionary model whose twin missions are enlightenment and liberation,” and then, as in days of old, raised his fist and chanted: “Viva Presidente Chávez! Viva la Revolucion Bolivariana! Hasta la Victoria Siempre!”

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon1006ss.html
I imagine Ayers was wearing a Che Guevara shirt. Neo-marxism for the loss. Ayers supports Socialist revolution. In the 60's and 70's he supported it through violence. Now he supports it through "educational reforms."

The man was killed in a "plastic explosives sale gone wrong". I'd say that's a pretty good link to bombings. Hell, if you don't want to compare him to Ayers, compare him to Wright. Vogler said the following:

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their damn flag. I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."That quite a leap to deduce that Volger was bombing things just because he was killed in a plastic explosive accident. Maybe he was assassinated and it was covered up. When you live on the fringes of society and law, weird things happen.

Tell that to the Sons of Liberty.Winners write the history books. You can hardly compare a revolution to support self-governance and a revolution that was led by disillusioned rich kids. I'm sure you see no difference between the two. If the differences aren't obvious to you, I doubt I have the time to explain.

If you want to support all forms of domestic terrorism, then you must also accept international terrorism as legitimate forms of warfare.

[TheImpossibleMan]

Man has anyone seen all these comments Cindy McCain is making? What a cunt.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/08/cindy-mccain-goes-on-the-attack/

[Smokestack]

Okay, what do you believe is the difference between bin Laden's form of terrorism and Ayers'? And yes, I do believe a terrorist is a terrorist. McVeigh, bin Laden, Ayers, the IRA, Hezbollah, all of them. Unless, you are able to convince me with a reasonable way to distinguish them by labeling some of their causes as worthwhile.

Winners write the history books. You can hardly compare a revolution to support self-governance and a revolution that was led by disillusioned rich kids. I'm sure you see no difference between the two. If the differences aren't obvious to you, I doubt I have the time to explain.

If you want to support all forms of domestic terrorism, then you must also accept international terrorism as legitimate forms of warfare.

Current Rover might want to have a word with Rover of half-an-hour ago. Just glad we've finally moved to the point in which we agree that all terrorism isn't the same and that it's important to distinguish differences between terrorist acts and organizations rather than conflating them all. Thanks!

[Morfin]

Man has anyone seen all these comments Cindy McCain is making? What a cunt.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/08/cindy-mccain-goes-on-the-attack/

This is ridiculous. Here is part of that article:

One day after she told a Tennessee newspaper Obama is running the "dirtiest campaign in American history," Mrs. McCain criticized the Illinois senator for voting against a bill to fund troops in Iraq, a regular line of attack from her husband’s campaign.

“The day that Senator Obama cast a vote not to fund my son when he was serving sent a cold chill through my body, let me tell you,” she told a Pennsylvania crowd before introducing her husband and Republican VP candidate Sarah Palin.Gee, no demagoguery there. Cindy, I'm pretty sure that if they had voted not to "fund your son," they would have brought him back to the U.S. It's not like they woulda left him right there in the sand, saying, "You're on your own, kid. Good luck."

[Claydon]

dirtiest campaign? oi vey.... people should read about the adams vs jefferson campaign. that thing was fucking ugly.

[Morfin]

dirtiest campaign? oi vey.... people should read about the adams vs jefferson campaign. that thing was fucking ugly.

Yeah, that Burr/Pinkney VP debate. Whoo. And then when Abigail Adams gave that speech about how this was the dirtiest campaign ever? Yep, a lot of people were nodding, saying, "I hear ya, Abby. We wish George was still alive."

I kid. This is nothing special, even compared to the last few presidential campaigns.

[Rover]

Current Rover might want to have a word with Rover of half-an-hour ago. Just glad we've finally moved to the point in which we agree that all terrorism isn't the same and that it's important to distinguish differences between terrorist acts and organizations rather than conflating them all. Thanks!Does this mean you believe the causes of the Weather Underground and SDS as worthy of pursuit? And that they are so worthy, that obtaining them through violence is acceptable?

[Pharon]

Gee, no demagoguery there. Cindy, I'm pretty sure that if they had voted not to "fund your son," they would have brought him back to the U.S. It's not like they woulda left him right there in the sand, saying, "You're on your own, kid. Good luck."
Also, let's put it all into context -- hey, remember the VP debate? Palin made the same accusations and got bitchslapped, rightly so, by Biden (who also has a kid over there, if I'm not mistaken):

PALIN: I know that the other ticket opposed this surge, in fact, even opposed funding for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Barack Obama voted against funding troops there after promising that he would not do so.

BIDEN: With regard to Barack Obama not quote funding the troops, John McCain voted the exact same way. John McCain voted against funding the troops because of an amendment he voted against had a timeline in it to draw down American troops. And John said I'm not going to fund the troops if in fact there's a time line. Barack Obama and I agree fully and completely on one thing. You've got to have a time line to draw down the troops and shift responsibility to the Iraqis.
This horseshit about voting to not fund the troops -- it was all just politics and details, and completely contingent upon that timeline issue, not about whether or not the troops should be funded at all.

[Smokestack]

Does this mean you believe the causes of the Weather Underground and SDS as worthy of pursuit? And that they are so worthy, that obtaining them through violence is acceptable?

No, it means that I don't believe the Weather Underground to be as bad as Al Qaeda, which was my original point. And when the specter of Ayers is raised in this campaign, it's pretty obvious that the conflation and oversimplification of the term "terrorist" is what's being driven at, equating groups that might share a general tactic but differ in goal, cause, magnitude of action, etc.

[Desperado]

Also, let's put it all into context -- hey, remember the VP debate? Palin made the same accusations and got bitchslapped, rightly so, by Biden (who also has a kid over there, if I'm not mistaken):


This horseshit about voting to not fund the troops -- it was all just politics and details, and completely contingent upon that timeline issue, not about whether or not the troops should be funded at all.

Fack check FTW!!!!



Fact Check: Did Obama vote to cut funds for troops? (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/02/fact-check-did-obama-vote-to-cut-funds-for-troops/)
Posted: 10:25 PM ET
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/10/02/art.obama.d.gi.jpg Get the facts!

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/base_skins/baseplate/corner_wire_BL.gif

The Statement:
At an Oct. 2 debate in St. Louis, Missouri, Republican vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin was talking about support for U.S. troops overseas. "I know that the other ticket opposed this surge — in fact, even opposed funding our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Barack Obama voted against funding
troops after promising that he would not do so," she said.
Get the facts!

The Facts:
On May 24, 2007, Obama was one of 14 senators who voted against a war-spending plan that would have provided emergency funds for American troops overseas. He, like many Democrats, was pushing for an end to the war in Iraq, and the legislation included no provisions for that. "We must fund our troops," Obama said that day in a news release. "But we owe them something more. We owe them a
clear, prudent plan to relieve them of the burden of policing someone else's civil war." Republican nominee Sen. John McCain, and Obama's running mate Sen. Joe Biden, voted in favor of that resolution.
Obama had supported, and voted for, an earlier version of the bill that would have provided the money for the troops but established a timeline for Bush to begin bringing them home. Biden also voted for that version of the plan.
McCain was one of three senators who did not vote that day — but he urged Bush to veto it after it passed 51-46 on April 26, 2007. "I look forward to the president's prompt veto of this misguided bill," McCain said in a written statement. Bush did veto the measure on May 1, 2007, leading to the second
vote.
Verdict:
Misleading. Obama supported a different version of the troop-funding plan — one that McCain spoke against.

[Claydon]

in the adams jefferson campaign, the democratic republicans said that if the federalists were re elected that there would be sodomy in the streets.

[Desperado]

in the adams jefferson campaign, the democratic republicans said that if the federalists were re elected that there would be sodomy in the streets.


That sounds like something a christian ultra conservative would say now... or maybe its already been said.

[Claydon]

Look, I am not delusional, I am fairly certain Barry is going to win, and this is what I want to see from this douche bag.

A DARPA like project for green/renewable energy, and a massive cutting of the red tape to build nuclear plants. Furthermore, I want the budget deficit halted and REAL debt reduction adopted (fat chance with this dipshit).

Next, I no longer want to hear fags like tater, jessie jackson et al screaming "it's whiteys world....i iz being held back by the man". fuck all of them a black man is in the white house now.

finally....I want this man to sing the national anthem at one of obama's election parties..

jWEHETqjWRs&

[Pharon]

dirtiest campaign? oi vey.... people should read about the adams vs jefferson campaign. that thing was fucking ugly.
First negative campaign ad?

Letter From Alexander Hamilton, Concerning the Public Conduct and Character of John Adams, Esq. (http://books.google.com/books?id=g2EDAAAAYAAJ&printsec=titlepage&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0)

[Claydon]

First negative campaign ad?

Letter From Alexander Hamilton, Concerning the Public Conduct and Character of John Adams, Esq. (http://books.google.com/books?id=g2EDAAAAYAAJ&dq=a+letter+from+alexander+hamilton+concerning+the +public+conduct+and+character+of+john+adams+esq+pr esident+of+the+united+states&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=v0LTblZ4mm&sig=6YfM_cSJYH_kiCphV7DXlu95_tk#PPA3,M1)

the letters of those two men in the twlight of the their years are some of the most powerful words put to paper in my opinion. The profound respect and dare I say love they have for one another is very moving.

[Pharon]

Hamilton and Adams never had any love for each other. Jefferson was another story.

Just wanted to clarify.

[Claydon]

Hamilton and Adams never had any love for each other. Jefferson was another story.

Just wanted to clarify.

a clarification...I meant jefferson and adams, NOT hamilton. Although Hamilton was a fucking genius, he and adams were like, AJ and women.

[kareyn01]

That quite a leap to deduce that Volger was bombing things just because he was killed in a plastic explosive accident. Maybe he was assassinated and it was covered up. When you live on the fringes of society and law, weird things happen.


Read the article. They found Vogler's body because the man who killed him confessed that he had murdered him and dumped the body after a plastic explosives sale between the two went bad. It wasn't a plastic explosives accident, it was a man being killed in an attempt to traffic in explosives.

I'd say if you put together the fact that Vogler wanted to secede from the Union, and stated that he had "no use for America or her damned institutions", and then factor in his murder in an explosives deal, its a pretty direct logical movement to say that he was most likely involved in the planning of bombings at the very least.

My point in this is simply to illustrate that when you start to play the guilt-by-association game, EVERYONE in Washington loses. And it shows from the fact that McCain's negatives have skyrocketed since he started running nothing but negative ads (literally 100% of his ads are negative according to an independent ad watch group whose name escapes me at the moment).

Should people question the nature of Obama's relationships? Yes, just as they should question those of everyone running for political office, including John McCain. But you can't just ignore every substantive issue and turn your campaign into a hatchet job. Negativity can't be your only message.

[heelsguy]

MSNBC would HAVE no show if they did not fixate on Foxnews.

[Pollo]

there's a McCain/Palin interview following last night's debate on Hannity & Colmes.

[Hobnail_Boot]

MSNBC would HAVE no show if they did not fixate on Foxnews.
Olbermann's show is all about teh comedy and teh Bush-, McCain-, and O'Reily-bashing

[hatepoppy]

there's a McCain/Palin interview following last night's debate on Hannity & Colmes.thank you tv guide channel.

[Genius]

I've heard about three different political "perfect storms" today. Financial crisis, Democrats obtaining a super-majority in the Senate, and difficulties facing pollsters. Some pundits need to go back to analogy school.

[hatepoppy]

some pundits need to go back to killing-themselves-bc-of-their-own-uselessness-and-failitude-class.

[Genius]

Fortunately, that is exactly what analogy school consists of.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Look, I am not delusional, I am fairly certain Barry is going to win, and this is what I want to see from this douche bag.

A DARPA like project for green/renewable energy, and a massive cutting of the red tape to build nuclear plants. Furthermore, I want the budget deficit halted and REAL debt reduction adopted (fat chance with this dipshit).

Next, I no longer want to hear fags like tater, jessie jackson et al screaming "it's whiteys world....i iz being held back by the man". fuck all of them a black man is in the white house now.

finally....I want this man to sing the national anthem at one of obama's election parties..

jWEHETqjWRs&

I just want him to swear in as Barack Hussein Obama.

[Le Goat]

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Officials in Missouri, a hard-fought jewel in the presidential race, are sifting through possibly hundreds of questionable or duplicate voter-registration forms submitted by an advocacy group that has been accused of election fraud in other states.
ADVERTISEMENT
http://us.bc.yahoo.com/b?P=qgUkAtG_Rt3ZQ1qGSMiSOQ4oY5KhK0jtePYADm6l&T=18o8etvip%2fX%3d1223522550%2fE%3d8903521%2fR%3dn ews%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d2.1%2fW%3dH%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d10 56956598%2fH%3dY2FjaGVoaW50PSJuZXdzIiBjb250ZW50PSJ lbGVjdGlvbjtmcmF1ZDtpdDtTZWN1cml0eTtEZW1vY3JhdGljO 1JlcHVibGljYW47RGVtb2NyYXQ7RkJJO0l0OyIgcmVmdXJsPSI iIHRvcGljcz0iIg--%2fQ%3d-1%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d7347BFD1&U=13fdah6gn%2fN%3dA15wCNG_XMA-%2fC%3d632876.11908615.12484099.1442997%2fD%3dLREC %2fB%3d5113907%2fV%3d1Charlene Davis, co-director of the election board in Jackson County, where Kansas City is, said the fraudulent registration forms came from the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN. She said they were bogging down work Wednesday, the final day Missourians could register to vote.
"I don't even know the entire scope of it because registrations are coming in so heavy," Davis said. "We have identified about 100 duplicates, and probably 280 addresses that don't exist, people who have driver's license numbers that won't verify or Social Security numbers that won't verify. Some have no address at all."
The nonpartisan group works to recruit low-income voters, who tend to lean Democratic. Most polls show Republican presidential candidate John McCain with an edge in bellwether Missouri, but Democrat Barack Obama continues to put up a strong fight.
Jess Ordower, Midwest director of ACORN, said his group hasn't done any registrations in Kansas City since late August. He said he was told three weeks ago by election officials that there were only about 135 questionable cards — 85 of them duplicates.
"They keep telling different people different things," he said. "They gave us a list of 130, then told someone else it was 1,000."
FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton said the agency has been in contact with elections officials about potential voter fraud and plans to investigate.
"It's a matter we take very seriously," Patton said. "It is against the law to register someone to vote who does not fall within the parameters to vote, or to put someone on there falsely."
On Tuesday, authorities in Nevada seized records from ACORN after finding fraudulent registration forms that included the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.
In April, eight ACORN workers in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting false registration cards for the 2006 election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway said they submitted cards with false addresses and names, and forged signatures.
Ordower said Wednesday that ACORN registered about 53,500 people in Missouri this year. He believes his group is being targeted because some politicians don't want that many low-income people having a voice.
"It's par for the course," he said. "When you're doing more registrations than anyone else in the country, some don't want low-income people being empowered to vote. There are pretty targeted attacks on us, but we're proud to be out there doing the patriotic thing getting people registered to vote."
Republicans are among ACORN's loudest critics. At a campaign stop in Bethlehem, Pa., supporters of John McCain interrupted his remarks Wednesday by shouting, "No more ACORN."
Debbie Mesloh, spokeswoman for the Obama campaign in Missouri, said in an e-mailed statement that the campaign supported any investigation of possible fraud.
According to its national Web site, the group has registered 1.3 million people nationwide for the Nov. 4 election. It also has encountered complaints of fraud stemming from registration efforts in Wisconsin, New Mexico, Nevada and battleground states like Michigan, Ohio and North Carolina, where new voter registrations have favored Democrats nearly 4 to 1 since the beginning of this year.
Missouri offers 11 electoral votes; the presidential candidates need at least 270 to win the election.

[Claydon]

Rand Watson for VP?

[kid_vidrio]

It's an outrage!

Nice copy pasta there goat. Did you learn that in the military?

[Le Goat]

It's an outrage!

Nice copy pasta there goat. Did you learn that in the military?

the fuck are you talking about dumbshit?

[kid_vidrio]

You should run for president.

[BIG PIZZLE]

I'm watching McCain's rally in PA today. It's actually pretty sad. He's a less lovable Dole right now.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Palin was on before and someone yelled, "You're hot!" from the crowd.

[Mustard]

stay classy your republicans.

[Axel]

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Officials in Missouri, a hard-fought jewel in the presidential race, are sifting through possibly hundreds of questionable or duplicate voter-registration forms submitted by an advocacy group that has been accused of election fraud in other states.
...
The nonpartisan group works to recruit low-income voters, who tend to lean Democratic.But of course, from whom else would you expect an election fraud?
...

the fuck are you talking about dumbshit?About a missing link to the source?

[vasili denisov]

"I don't even know the entire scope of it because registrations are coming in so heavy," Davis said. "We have identified about 100 duplicates, and probably 280 addresses that don't exist, people who have driver's license numbers that won't verify or Social Security numbers that won't verify. Some have no address at all."
...
Ordower said Wednesday that ACORN registered about 53,500 people in Missouri this year. He believes his group is being targeted because some politicians don't want that many low-income people having a voice.
Just picking the highest number of possible fraud (280), an incredible 0.4% of the forms turned in may be fraudulent.

Just to give context, for those who don't remember, one of the reasons why Alberto Gonzales' tenure at justice was so controversial was the skewed partisan direction of voter fraud investigations.


In April, eight ACORN workers in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting false registration cards for the 2006 election. U.S. Attorney Catherine Hanaway said they submitted cards with false addresses and names, and forged signatures.The 2006 indictments for voter fraud cited in the piece were part of the controversy, and accompanied by a lawsuit brought by the Gonzales appointed district attorney, the suit dismissed due to lack of evidence.

Some details of the controversy behind the fraud indictments.


Just five days before the 2006 election, Schlozman announced the indictments of four of the former ACORN workers, who all ultimately pleaded guilty to the voter registration charges. The election featured an extremely close Senate race between the incumbent Jim Talent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Talent) and eventual winner Claire McCaskill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_McCaskill). Critics, including former U.S. Attorneys Todd Graves[23] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Schlozman#cite_note-22) and David Iglesias,[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Schlozman#cite_note-23) claimed the indictments before the election violated longstanding Department of Justice policy.


Joseph D. Rich, a 35-year veteran of the Department of Justice, and chief of its voting section from 1999 to 2005, wrote, in a Los Angeles Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Times) op-ed, "Missouri had one of the closest Senate races in the country last November, and a week before the election, Schlozman brought four voter fraud indictments against members of an organization representing poor and minority people. This blatantly contradicted the department's long-standing policy to wait until after an election to bring such indictments because a federal criminal investigation might affect the outcome of the vote. The timing of the Missouri indictments could not have made the administration's aims more transparent."[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Schlozman#cite_note-24)
Wikipedia page of then attorney for the district Bradley Schlozman. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Schlozman)

[Morfin]

On Tuesday, authorities in Nevada seized records from ACORN after finding fraudulent registration forms that included the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys.

Man, I knew the Cowboys ran a lawless ship back in the mid-90's, but these guys are wild: Parties, drugs, women, voter fraud...

[Desperado]

Man, I knew the Cowboys ran a lawless ship back in the mid-90's, but these guys are wild: Parties, drugs, women, voter fraud...


How dare you....

[Morfin]

Interesting. Coincidence?

Behind McCain’s Fall (http://stateoftheunion.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/behind-mccains-fall/)

McCain’s tracking numbers against the S&P 500 over the past two weeks, with a two-day lag to let the market results filter through Gallup’s rolling average:
http://stateoftheunion.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/marketsvsmccain1.jpg?w=385&h=249 (http://stateoftheunion.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/marketsvsmccain1.jpg)
Link (http://stateoftheunion.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/behind-mccains-fall/)

[DjAg]

Economy is his weakest issue, why wouldn't he be less popular the more the economy is in the shitter?

[Mr. Brown]

Is the election season over yet?

[Smokestack]

Say it to my face, chickenshit:

IDz7iJYJXmE

[Desperado]

Oops!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081009/pl_politico/14414
McCain changes homeowner plan
Mike Allen Thu Oct 9, 12:29 AM ET


Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) made an overnight change in the homeowner bailout he proposed at Tuesday’s presidential debate, making it more generous to financial institutions and more costly for taxpayers.

McCain's staff says it was always meant that way.
When McCain sprung his surprise idea at the start of the debate in Nashville, his campaign posted details online of his American Homeownership Resurgence Plan, which would direct the government to buy up bad home mortgages, allowing strapped people to keep their property.
The document posted and e-mailed by the McCain campaign on Tuesday night says at the end of its first full paragraph: “Lenders in these cases must recognize the loss that they’ve already suffered.”
So the government would buy the mortgages at a discounted rate, reflecting the declining value of the mortgage paper.
But when McCain reissued the document on Wednesday, that sentence was missing, to the dismay of many conservatives.
That would mean the U.S. would pay face value for the troubled documents, which was the main reason Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) gave for opposing the plan.
A McCain campaign official explained the change: “That language was mistakenly included in the initial draft and it’s been corrected. It doesn’t reflect the intentions of the initiative, which necessitated the correction and the removal of the sentence. A simple mistake.”

[kareyn01]

stay classy your republicans.

Here's a clip of McCain/Palin supporters yesterday in Strongsville, Ohio.

KjxzmaXAg9E

[Candycane]

Jesus.

[Smokestack]

Here's a clip of McCain/Palin supporters yesterday in Strongsville, Ohio.

KjxzmaXAg9E

Those real Americans frighten me.

[Morfin]

Here's a clip of McCain/Palin supporters yesterday in Strongsville, Ohio.

KjxzmaXAg9E

But just remember: This has nothing to do with Obama being black. Nosirreee Bob. Nothin' But did I mention that Obama's ears stick out? Yeah. That's why I'm votin' for McCain. Black? Obama is Black? Didn't know that. 'Cuz his ears stick out, that's why I'm votin' against him.

Edit: Please. I'm begging you. Do not let Arch, Axel, or fuld see this video. Pretty please.

[Smokestack]

Here's a clip of McCain/Palin supporters yesterday in Strongsville, Ohio.

KjxzmaXAg9E

Former Bush speechwriter and McCain backer David From reaches out to McCain/Palin about their incitement of the angry mob (http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NmE5Njk3NDBlZGZhYWU4YTMyMGFkNjYyNjJmNzYwNTg=):

Those who press this Ayers line of attack are whipping Republicans and conservatives into a fury that is going to be very hard to calm after November. Is it really wise to send conservatives into opposition in a mood of disdain and fury for a man who may well be the next president of the United States, incidentally the first African-American president? Anger is a very bad political adviser. It can isolate us and push us to the extremes at exactly the moment when we ought to be rebuilding, rethinking, regrouping and recruiting.
I’m not suggesting that we remit our opposition to a hypothetical President Obama. Only that an outgunned party will need to stay cool. A big part of Obama’s appeal is his self-command. It’s a genuinely impressive quality. Let’s emulate it. We’ll be needing it.

[kareyn01]

From Bethlehem, Pennsylvania this time:

itEucdhf4Us

[kareyn01]

Also, Todd Palin admitted his guilt today in the Troopergate scandal, although he refuses to say anything he did was wrong:

Todd Palin talked with over a dozen state officials, many of them repeatedly, in his crusade to get a state trooper fired whom he considered to be a bad cop, a dishonest person and a threat to the Palin family, according to his sworn statement given Wednesday to a legislative investigator...

"We had a lot of conversations about a guy who threatened my family and verbally assaulted my daughter. We talked about my concerns. We talked about Wooten possibly pulling over one of my kids to frame them, like throwing a bag of dope in the back seat just to frame a Palin," he said of his conversations with one Palin aide...
"I had hundreds of conversations and communications about Trooper Wooten over the last several years with my family, with friends, with colleagues, and with just about everyone I could -- including government officials," Palin said.
"I talked about Wooten so much over the years that my wife told me to stop talking about it with her."
He said by taking his concerns to Monegan he was following the instructions regular citizens get for complaining about troopers.
"There is absolutely nothing improper about lodging concerns about Trooper Wooten with Monegan or his predecessor -- complaints about State Troopers are supposed to go to the Commissioner," he said.
"I make no apologies for wanting to protect my family and wanting to publicize the injustice of a violent trooper keeping his badge and abusing the worker compensation system. The real investigation that needs to be conducted for the best interests of the public at large is the Department of Public Safety's unwillingness to discipline its own."
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/550229.html

[Rover]

Former Bush speechwriter and McCain backer David From reaches out to McCain/Palin about their incitement of the angry mob (http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NmE5Njk3NDBlZGZhYWU4YTMyMGFkNjYyNjJmNzYwNTg=):
Those who press this Ayers line of attack are whipping Republicans and conservatives into a fury that is going to be very hard to calm after November. Is it really wise to send conservatives into opposition in a mood of disdain and fury for a man who may well be the next president of the United States, incidentally the first African-American president? Anger is a very bad political adviser. It can isolate us and push us to the extremes at exactly the moment when we ought to be rebuilding, rethinking, regrouping and recruiting.
I’m not suggesting that we remit our opposition to a hypothetical President Obama. Only that an outgunned party will need to stay cool. A big part of Obama’s appeal is his self-command. It’s a genuinely impressive quality. Let’s emulate it. We’ll be needing it.
While this may seem petty and spiteful, after listening to the last 8 years of,
Bush stole the election.
Bush is an idiot.
Bush lied, people died.
People who voted for Bush are morons.
ad nauseam, I personally don't care if Obama has to get heckled as a terrorist, or if half the country hates him when he gets elected. Two sides can play this game of irrational hatred.

[Limp]

From Bethlehem, Pennsylvania this time:

itEucdhf4Us
Yeah... like finding stupid Obama supporters is hard...

There was a black guy on local news the other day getting registered to vote and said "I'm regestering so I can vote a black man into office. Then I can get the support my family needs". The reporter said "Obama is half white and half black." to which the black guy responded "Well he looks black, that's good enough for me!"

Howard Stern:
B5P3OB6ROAG

[Desperado]

While this may seem petty and spiteful, after listening to the last 8 years of,
Bush stole the election.
Bush is an idiot.
Bush lied, people died.
People who voted for Bush are morons.
ad nauseam, I personally don't care if Obama has to get heckled as a terrorist, or if half the country hates him when he gets elected. Two sides can play this game of irrational hatred.


I dont hate McCain.

[Desperado]

Put one on the board for McCain!!!


NRA endorses McCain-Palin ticket (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/09/nra-endorses-mccain-palin-ticket/)
Posted: 12:00 PM ET

From CNN Associate Producer Martina Stewart (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/tag/cnn-associate-producer-martina-stewart/)
(CNN) - The National Rifle Association said Thursday it plans to endorse Sen. John McCain and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, citing Sen. Barack Obama's "anti-gun record."
"We will encourage gun owners, hunters and anyone who values freedom to vote McCain-Palin on November 4," Wayne LaPierre, the NRA's Executive Vice President, said in the statement.
Obama has been on poor terms with gun rights advocates, especially since his controversial remarks about rural residents of Pennsylvania were disclosed before the Pennsylvania Democratic primary. Obama lost to Sen. Hillary Clinton in that race despite investing substantial time campaigning in the battleground state.
The U.S. Supreme Court held for the first time in June of this year that the Second Amendment of the Constitution protects an individual right to own and carry a gun.

[kareyn01]

Yeah... like finding stupid Obama supporters is hard...


I'm well aware that there are idiots all across the political spectrum in this country. But in this election, there's only one side actively courting them, and its coming directly from the primaries in the McCain campaign (John, Cindy, and Sarah Palin).

[Smokestack]

While this may seem petty and spiteful, after listening to the last 8 years of,
Bush stole the election.
Bush is an idiot.
Bush lied, people died.
People who voted for Bush are morons.
ad nauseam, I personally don't care if Obama has to get heckled as a terrorist, or if half the country hates him when he gets elected. Two sides can play this game of irrational hatred.

You left out that during those grueling and apparently traumatic 8 years you just survived that close to 90% of the country rallied behind Bush, less than a year after he won the closest presidential election in our history that was effectively decided by the Supreme Court. While certainly there would have always been a contingent of namecallers, Bush had unprecedented support and he botched it. So, yes, you do sound unnecessarily petty and spiteful. The reaction of that mob, and apparently your sympathies, are also a product of the last 8 years but not because of anti-Bushism. That's really a lame excuse.

[Limp]

I never saw these before...

Awesome support from Texas:
JJ4VK9WVAI0

BARACK OBAMA IS A BABY KILLER!!!!!
LZMjnxjddUg

[redsox39]

stay classy your republicans.

lol, the "stay Classy" part is hard to take wth a couple of ducks engaging in Oral sexnext to it!

Seriously though, Fav Avatar so far! (that doesn't involve a Victoria secret model)

[Stax]

I dont hate McCain.

Precisely. What's frightening is the level of vitriol that stands opposed to Obama. Very few Obama supporters would be yelling at people holding McCain signs shouting the similarly stupid untrue stories, like he's a Manchurian candidate programmed by Vietnamese. That is an equally stupid story to "Obama is a terrorist", yet one of the two got national news coverage for months and continues to be voiced by a large bloc of voters.

[Claibo]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2920111075_aefffceb99_o.jpg

[redsox39]

Say it to my face, chickenshit:

IDz7iJYJXmE

Fine, you suck! and my Dad can kick your dad's ass!

Who went Sophmoric?

[Rover]

I don't normally discuss things that are only rumor and speculation, but Rush Limbaugh started his show with this "information" today, so this story could explode on the blogs over the weekend.

The US attorney in Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald, is rumored to be involved in a grand jury investigation of some combination of Illinois government officials, Tony Rezko, ACORN, the Obama campaign, and the DNC for RICO violations.

With the FBI raids on ACORN headquarters in several states over the last few days, there could be something to this.

I guess the age old question of, whether or not a politician can win a race with RICO indictments looming over his head, can finally be answered.

Maybe he should be called Don Obama.

[Stax]

I don't normally discuss things that are only rumor and speculation, but Rush Limbaugh started his show with this "information" today, so this story could explode on the blogs over the weekend.

The US attorney in Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald, is rumored to be involved in a grand jury investigation of some combination of Illinois government officials, Tony Rezko, ACORN, the Obama campaign, and the DNC for RICO violations.

With the FBI raids on ACORN headquarters in several states over the last few days, there could be something to this.

I guess the age old question of, whether or not a politician can win a race with RICO indictments looming over his head, can finally be answered.

Maybe he should be called Don Obama.

But yeah, you don't like posting rumors. Just posting what Rush Limbaugh has said, followed by calling the likely next president of the United States a mafia don.

[redsox39]

From Bethlehem, Pennsylvania this time:

itEucdhf4Us

Why were these people talking shit to a bunch of old people waiting to See McCain is a better question?

[Claibo]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2833276207_67851e1785_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/barrybar/2833276207/)


Holy Shit... Nothing like calling Uncle Sam>>> Uncle Sambo. Those crazy Peruvians! :cool:

[Stax]

Why were these people talking shit to a bunch of old people waiting to See McCain is a better question?

A. No it isn't.
B. The funniest part of that video, to me, is that thousands of people are streaming into the arena, yet everyone of them seems to feel the need to tell the like 15 people standing on the outside to "Get a job!" and ask why they aren't at work. Aren't those thousands of people also not at work?

[Smokestack]

I don't normally discuss things that are only rumor and speculation, but Rush Limbaugh started his show with this "information" today, so this story could explode on the blogs over the weekend.
.

Very nice use of "Rush Limbaugh" and "information" in the same sentence. Takes a certain talent...

[kid_vidrio]

Two wrongs don't make a right, but I find the ACORN accusation to be conversely reminiscent of denying voters their right to vote based on fraudulently compiled lists of dead people and felons.
And so the wheel turns...

[Rover]

But yeah, you don't like posting rumors. Just posting what Rush Limbaugh has said, followed by calling the likely next president of the United States a mafia don.

Very nice use of "Rush Limbaugh" and "information" in the same sentence. Takes a certain talent...I prefaced it by saying it was rumor and even cited my source of the rumor. You can either believe it, not believe it, or consider it interesting.

I just happened to find this information interesting.

[Kerjack]

But yeah, you don't like posting rumors. Just posting what Rush Limbaugh has said, followed by calling the likely next president of the United States a mafia don.

I agree, and with the elections this close that gets a neg.

[Kerjack]

But hey if it turns out to be true I'll give you two reps.

[Morfin]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3256/2833276207_67851e1785_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/barrybar/2833276207/)


Holy Shit... Nothing like calling Uncle Sam>>> Uncle Sambo. Those crazy Peruvians! :cool:

Yeah, and they eat cats, too. http://forum.gorillamask.net/showthread.php?t=8740

[kareyn01]

BARACK OBAMA IS A BABY KILLER!!!!!



The votes that Alan Keyes mentions have already been discussed. The Republican portion of the Illinois state legislature tried to pass that "anti-infanticide" bill, which included language that would pretty transparently have led to significant changes in the state's abortion clause. Democrats repeatedly voted the bill down until it included the following three clauses:

(c) Nothing in this Section shall be construed to affirm, deny, expand, or contract any legal status or legal right applicable to any member of the species homo sapiens at any point prior to being born alive, as defined in this Section. (d) Nothing in this Section shall be construed to affect existing federal or State law regarding abortion.
(e) Nothing in this Section shall be construed to alter generally accepted medical standards.



So now we've stooped to "baby killer" to go along with "terrorist", "traitor", Muslim", and the always-a-good-time "******". Oh, and from that Pennsylvania video I posted earlier, a "commie faggot".

[Limp]

HE'S A COMMIE FAGGOT TOO??! KILL HIM WITH FIRE!

[Pax Britannia]

Childish name calling is the kind of political discourse that everyone can enjoy!

[kareyn01]

I prefaced it by saying it was rumor and even cited my source of the rumor. You can either believe it, not believe it, or consider it interesting.

I just happened to find this information interesting.

Yeah, that's cool. I don't have a problem with you posting it (not that you were waiting for my approval).

I'd say there's probably not a lot to it, because the wingnut division of the far-Right has been trying to tie Obama to the ACORN voter registration fraud scandal by any means necessary for the past few weeks. There's really nothing there that I can see other than the fact that ACORN tends to register people in inner cities, who usually tend to vote for the Democratic candidate.

Its a combination of a couple of things: 1) its a way to cast doubts about EVERY voter that ACORN registered, not just the duplicates, and 2) its yet another attemp to assassinate Obama's character, especially now that Todd Palin has admitted that he, and the rest of the Palin administration repeatedly exerted pressure to fire Mike Wooten over a number of years.

[Limp]

This just in:

OBAMA HAS COOTIES! HE GOT IT FROM A TERRORIST NETWORK THAT IS MAKING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!

[Mustard]

BARACK OBAMA DRINKS HIS OWN PEE AND IS A VAMPIRE!

JOHN MCCAIN WEARS DIAPERS AND IS A ZOMBIE!

SARAH PALIN GOT BLESSED BY A CHRISTIAN WITCH DOCTOR AND THINKS MAN AND DINOSAURS ROAMED THE EARTH AT THE SAME TIME!

JOE BIDEN WANTS TO BLOW UP THE INTERNET AND IS ACTUALLY AN ALIEN!



Weeeeeee, this is fun!

[Rover]

Yeah, that's cool. I don't have a problem with you posting it (not that you were waiting for my approval).

I'd say there's probably not a lot to it, because the wingnut division of the far-Right has been trying to tie Obama to the ACORN voter registration fraud scandal by any means necessary for the past few weeks. There's really nothing there that I can see other than the fact that ACORN tends to register people in inner cities, who usually tend to vote for the Democratic candidate.

Its a combination of a couple of things: 1) its a way to cast doubts about EVERY voter that ACORN registered, not just the duplicates, and 2) its yet another attemp to assassinate Obama's character, especially now that Todd Palin has admitted that he, and the rest of the Palin administration repeatedly exerted pressure to fire Mike Wooten over a number of years.I think Fitzgerald has political ambitions. He's gone pretty hard on Chicago corruption and just general corruption. The Plame leak for one. I wouldn't be surprised if their was a RICO investigation of ACORN. I think that would be an easy indictment given the raids in 10 states. However, I don't think there is chance of linking it to the Obama campaign or the DNC. Political parties have way too much experience in covering their tracks. I just don't believe they'd be that sloppy.

[Limp]

JOHN MCCAIN WEARS DIAPERS AND IS A ZOMBIE!

I KNEW IT!

JOE BIDEN WANTS TO BLOW UP THE INTERNET AND IS ACTUALLY AN ALIEN!


I have to call bullshit on this one... everyone knows Biden is just Al Gore in a mask.... why would he want to blow up his greatest creation?

[Desperado]

I think Fitzgerald has political ambitions.


The crazy thing about this guy was he was on the list of Non-Loyal attorneys and almost got canned by Gonzales...

[Mustard]

Poor Al Gore... his beard must be getting really itchy under that Joe Biden mask.

At least I got the alien part right though.

[Limp]

No doubt on the alien part.

[Rover]

The crazy thing about this guy was he was on the list of Non-Loyal attorneys and almost got canned by Gonzales...That's because he's an anti-corruption crusader trying to make a political name for himself. A successful RICO indictment could help him get into the governor's office, since the current Illinois governor is fighting off scandal after scandal.

[Yelram]

Precisely. What's frightening is the level of vitriol that stands opposed to Obama. Very few Obama supporters would be yelling at people holding McCain signs shouting the similarly stupid untrue stories, like he's a Manchurian candidate programmed by Vietnamese. That is an equally stupid story to "Obama is a terrorist", yet one of the two got national news coverage for months and continues to be voiced by a large bloc of voters.

Yeah democrats never violently protest republican events.

[Smokestack]

Yeah democrats never violently protest republican events.

I think the topic was Republicans getting whipped up into a violent lather at Republican events. I doubt you'll find anyone here arguing the merits of Code Pink interrupting the Republican convention and that sort of thing.

[Kilgore]

Yeah democrats never violently protest republican events.Betcha Amy Goodman would disagree with you.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Joe lieberman is a filthy jew.http://www.crooksandliars.com/silentpatriot/joe-lieberman-lord-knows-i-have-lot-

[vasili denisov]

The US attorney in Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald, is rumored to be involved in a grand jury investigation of some combination of Illinois government officials, Tony Rezko, ACORN, the Obama campaign, and the DNC for RICO violations.

There's something suspicious going on, though it has nothing to do with Rezko, and everything to do with state actions against Acorn.

In Missouri, where the latest supposed fraud took place, you had an unsuccessful attempt in 2006 by the district attorney to sue the state over Acorn's registrations. The suit was dismissed due to lack of evidence, the attorney considered to be one of those in the DoJ who used voter fraud prosecutions for political ends rather than reasons of genuine justice. Though four working at Acorn pled guilty for registration, the circumstances indicate that they were lazy workers, that this was not a case of top-down fraud. At issue out of hundreds of thousands of names reigstered were six false registrations (taken from here (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/003107.php)).

In Nevada, Acorn requested to meet with elected officials multiple times over any suspicious registrations; such meetings were turned down. The raid on their offices involved taking documents, copies of which had already been turned over to the authorities (taken from here (http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6480)).

In Ohio, another state where there have been allegations of Acorn fraud (though these seem to be entirely anecdotal), there has been a nuisance suit by local republicans launched with the arguable intent to remove voters from rolls. It has already been dismissed once due to lack of evidence (filing details here in pdf (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20081009vote.pdf)).

If I employed the same utterly bankrupt guilt by association tactics that Rush used, I'd say it's clear that McCain is trying to steal the election; that his friendship with G. Gordon Liddy, a man involved in trying to cover up illegalities in Nixon's re-election certifies it. That John Singlaub, the head of the World Anti-Communist League on which McCain served, is trying to install the first junta in the US, after which elections will be suspended.

I'm not making those allegations because though there seem to be very aggressive attempts in several states to get voters off lists and intimidate registration groups, there's no indication that it's coming from McCain's campaign, that past "associations" indicate ongoing involvment in a person's life or activities, and to make these kinds of allegations without foundation is beneath most people, though not beneath Rush.

[Axel]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a236/axel01/killingkittens1.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a236/axel01/killingseals1.jpg

[Limp]

lulz

[Limp]

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/m/G/2/obama-46-virgin.jpg

[Smokestack]

West Virgina in play? Could be...

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres2008/WV08.html

and Biden also calls McCain a pussy (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/09/1522310.aspx):

“All of the things they said about Barack Obama in the TV, on the TV, at their rallies, and now on YouTube … John McCain could not bring himself to look Barack Obama in the eye and say the same things to him,” Biden said this morning. “In my neighborhood, when you’ve got something to say to a guy, you look him in the eye and you say it to him.”

[kareyn01]

There's something suspicious going on, though it has nothing to do with Rezko, and everything to do with state actions against Acorn.

In Missouri, where the latest supposed fraud took place, you had an unsuccessful attempt in 2006 by the district attorney to sue the state over Acorn's registrations. The suit was dismissed due to lack of evidence, the attorney considered to be one of those in the DoJ who used voter fraud prosecutions for political ends rather than reasons of genuine justice. Though four working at Acorn pled guilty for registration, the circumstances indicate that they were lazy workers, that this was not a case of top-down fraud. At issue out of hundreds of thousands of names reigstered were six false registrations (taken from here (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/003107.php)).

In Nevada, Acorn requested to meet with elected officials multiple times over any suspicious registrations; such meetings were turned down. The raid on their offices involved taking documents, copies of which had already been turned over to the authorities (taken from here (http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6480)).

In Ohio, another state where there have been allegations of Acorn fraud (though these seem to be entirely anecdotal), there has been a nuisance suit by local republicans launched with the arguable intent to remove voters from rolls. It has already been dismissed once due to lack of evidence (filing details here in pdf (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20081009vote.pdf)).

If I employed the same utterly bankrupt guilt by association tactics that Rush used, I'd say it's clear that McCain is trying to steal the election; that his friendship with G. Gordon Liddy, a man involved in trying to cover up illegalities in Nixon's re-election certifies it. That John Singlaub, the head of the World Anti-Communist League on which McCain served, is trying to install the first junta in the US, after which elections will be suspended.

I'm not making those allegations because though there seem to be very aggressive attempts in several states to get voters off lists and intimidate registration groups, there's no indication that it's coming from McCain's campaign, that past "associations" indicate ongoing involvment in a person's life or activities, and to make these kinds of allegations without foundation is beneath most people, though not beneath Rush.

McCain just brought up ACORN earlier today in a rally, and told all of his supporters that they need to get involved in stopping voter fraud.

[VoxAngelikus]

Politics of Attack (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/opinion/08wed1.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin)

It is a sorry fact of American political life that campaigns get ugly, often in their final weeks. But Senator John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin have been running one of the most appalling campaigns we can remember.



They have gone far beyond the usual fare of quotes taken out of context and distortions of an opponent’s record — into the dark territory of race-baiting and xenophobia. Senator Barack Obama has taken some cheap shots at Mr. McCain, but there is no comparison.



Despite the occasional slip (referring to Mr. Obama’s “cronies” and calling him “that one”), Mr. McCain tried to take a higher road in Tuesday night’s presidential debate. It was hard to keep track of the number of times he referred to his audience as “my friends.” But apart from promising to buy up troubled mortgages as president, he offered no real answers for how he plans to solve the country’s deep economic crisis. He is unable or unwilling to admit that the Republican assault on regulation was to blame.


Ninety minutes of forced cordiality did not erase the dismal ugliness of his campaign in recent weeks, nor did it leave us with much hope that he would not just return to the same dismal ugliness on Wednesday.


Ms. Palin, in particular, revels in the attack. Her campaign rallies have become spectacles of anger and insult. “This is not a man who sees America as you see it and how I see America,” Ms. Palin has taken to saying.


That line follows passages in Ms. Palin’s new stump speech in which she twists Mr. Obama’s ill-advised but fleeting and long-past association with William Ayers, founder of the Weather Underground and confessed bomber. By the time she’s done, she implies that Mr. Obama is right now a close friend of Mr. Ayers — and sympathetic to the violent overthrow of the government. The Democrat, she says, “sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country.”


Her demagoguery has elicited some frightening, intolerable responses. A recent Washington Post report said at a rally in Florida this week a man yelled “kill him!” as Ms. Palin delivered that line and others shouted epithets at an African-American member of a TV crew.


Mr. McCain’s aides haven’t even tried to hide their cynical tactics, saying they were “going negative” in hopes of shifting attention away from the financial crisis — and by implication Mr. McCain’s stumbling response.
We certainly expected better from Mr. McCain, who once showed withering contempt for win-at-any-cost politics. He was driven out of the 2000 Republican primaries by this sort of smear, orchestrated by some of the same people who are now running his campaign.


And the tactic of guilt by association is perplexing, since Mr. McCain has his own list of political associates he would rather forget. We were disappointed to see the Obama campaign air an ad (held for just this occasion) reminding voters of Mr. McCain’s involvement in the Keating Five savings-and-loan debacle, for which he was reprimanded by the Senate. That episode at least bears on Mr. McCain’s claims to be the morally pure candidate and his argument that he alone is capable of doing away with greed, fraud and abuse.



In a way, we should not be surprised that Mr. McCain has stooped so low, since the debate showed once again that he has little else to talk about. He long ago abandoned his signature issues of immigration reform and global warming; his talk of “victory” in Iraq has little to offer a war-weary nation; and his Reagan-inspired ideology of starving government and shredding regulation lies in tatters on Wall Street.


But surely, Mr. McCain and his team can come up with a better answer to that problem than inciting more division, anger and hatred.

[Desperado]

But surely, Mr. McCain and his team can come up with a better answer to that problem than inciting more division, anger and hatred.

This is all he has left... His mortgage idea is getting killed by repubs and dems.

[BIG PIZZLE]

Here's a clip of McCain/Palin supporters yesterday in Strongsville, Ohio.

KjxzmaXAg9E

I just forwarded this to my buddy, whose name is Hussein.thanks. now i feel completely safe.You'll be fine. But I would suggest refraining from any visits to Ohio or any State whose borders have more than 2 right angles.

[Archangel]

I wonder what the Republican retard definition of "terrorist" is. So, say, Shareef Abdur-Rahim is a terrorist? Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? "Just look at his name", indeed. The co-conspirator arrested for the 9/11 attacks was called "Zacarias", does that mean that Zaphro is a "terrorist"? So the Democratic Party is so hell bent on destroying America that they knowingly nominated a "terrorist"? Or is it that they just don't know, and that you're smarter than the DNC?

What the fuck is a "terrorist"? "Somebody who hates Amer'ca, man! *cue U-S-A chant here*"? What, then, is your definition of America? Jesus fucking Christ.

When did talking about stuff you know jack shit about surpass baseball as the American pastime?


By the way, my future brother-in-law's second name is Hussein.

[Archangel]

Hmm. Maybe a bit too thick on the vitriol there.


I am obviously not talking about all Americans, or even a majority. I am aware that this clip was made to elicit a reaction. But there seems to be a frighteningly large minority of people in the US who honestly believe that having an Arabic middle name makes someone ipso facto a "terrorist", without even knowing what that means, and I have honestly no idea how someone can possibly get that ignorant.

Someone please enlighten me.

[Pax Britannia]

Theres a small minority of wackos in every political party. I bet you could go to an Obama rally and find some people to say that McCain is a "fascist" or a "Nazi" just because he has right wing views.

[Archangel]

There's a difference. As far as I know, America is not, as of 2008, in the business of hunting down and killing fascists. When you consider that, calling a political fucking candidate for office a "terrorist" takes on another meaning.

Also, if you're far enough to the left, a person with right-wing views might look fascist to you, contingent on the fact that you know what that word even means, just as I would understand a right-winger calling a politician from the left a "commie" - that, I get. However, by which reasoning is a US politician a "terrorist" to his fellow Americans? It simply cannot make any fucking sense.

[Pax Britannia]

It simply cannot make any fucking sense.

Thats because your trying to apply logic to the illogical.

[Archangel]

I would love to ask Sen McCain one day, "Senator, how does it feel to know that quite a few of the people voting for you are so fucking stupid that they honestly believe that the Democratic nominee is a 'terrorist'? Do you think that they even know what that word means?"

[Yelram]

There's a difference. As far as I know, America is not, as of 2008, in the business of hunting down and killing fascists. When you consider that, calling a political fucking candidate for office a "terrorist" takes on another meaning.

Also, if you're far enough to the left, a person with right-wing views might look fascist to you, contingent on the fact that you know what that word even means, just as I would understand a right-winger calling a politician from the left a "commie" - that, I get. However, by which reasoning is a US politician a "terrorist" to his fellow Americans? It simply cannot make any fucking sense.

He's suspicious for far more reasons than his name.

[Mustard]

Hmm. Maybe a bit too thick on the vitriol there.

I am obviously not talking about all Americans, or even a majority. I am aware that this clip was made to elicit a reaction. But there seems to be a frighteningly large minority of people in the US who honestly believe that having an Arabic middle name makes someone ipso facto a "terrorist", without even knowing what that means, and I have honestly no idea how someone can possibly get that ignorant.

Someone please enlighten me.
There is no need to enlighten you on this subject, you've nailed it pretty squarely as it is.

Your previous comment was a bit much, (maybe true in 1 percent of the populous or less even) but nonetheless over the top. I understand your frustrations, mind you. But your last comment I think shows that you have seen and heard the news and read the boards and understand the divide in the US. There are truly a lot of ignorant fools who lap up the fearmongering and the Hussein bullshit as if it were the gospel of Jesus himself. We even see it with some of the posters here on GMF. Head on over to Free Republic for a good laugh, and then realize after a few minutes in utter shock and horror that these people are not, in fact, joking at all. Go on, do it, sometimes I need a good laugh and a stark reminder of just how ignorant these mouth-breathers are, and that site is chock full of it.

Hell, for shits and giggles I opened an account there right after Scooter Libby got indicted some time ago, and I posted a sarcastic comment that went something like this, "I wonder how many more republicans are going to be indicted before the end of the Bush Administration?" Then I come to find out that every post is moderated before its allowed to be posted, then a minute later I was informed that my account was banned, and my post was never posted... Awesome! Free speech? What the fuck is that? Aw but hell, it is a private site, I guess they just can't have any kind of dissent whatsoever. It might make some of the more neandertalish brains explode, and we can't have that happen.

[Yelram]

I would love to ask Sen McCain one day, "Senator, how does it feel to know that quite a few of the people voting for you are so fucking stupid that they honestly believe that the Democratic nominee is a 'terrorist'? Do you think that they even know what that word means?"
You apparently have not seen the "Bush Is a Terrorist" T-shirts? And are you really that blind that you cant see what the media was doing there? They went to an event, tried to find the craziest person they could, who didnt know very much, and overrepresented a small fringe group of individuals.

[Archangel]

You apparently have not seen the "Bush Is a Terrorist" T-shirts?

Mr Bush gave the orders to blow up cities and bomb and kill several thousand people, or at least relayed Mr Cheney's orders to the military. So I can at least see why people would call him that. You don't have to agree, but you cannot deny that he is responsible for the death of civilians.

Last I know, Sen Obama does not have any blood on his hands.

[Archangel]

And are you really that blind that you cant see what the media was doing there? They went to an event, tried to find the craziest person they could, who didnt know very much, and overrepresented a small fringe group of individuals.
You're obviously not very good at reading.
I am obviously not talking about all Americans, or even a majority. I am aware that this clip was made to elicit a reaction.
Also, there's clips of idiots like this every time before or after a GOP campaign speech/event (sometimes even during), so there's at least a half dozen of them in quite a few American cities.

Oh, and funny how it's always the "media's" fault. I guess they're in cahoots with the "terrorists".

[Hobnail_Boot]

While this may seem petty and spiteful, after listening to the last 8 years of,
Bush stole the election. But he did.
Bush is an idiot. Have you head him speak?
Bush lied, people died. He did and they did.
People who voted for Bush are morons. In 2000, that was a debatable point. But for those who voted for him in 2004, it's true.
ad nauseam, I personally don't care if Obama has to get heckled as a terrorist, or if half the country hates him when he gets elected. Two sides can play this game of irrational hatred.

[BIG PIZZLE]

He's suspicious for far more reasons than his name.

Do you believe he's a terrorist? Do you think McCain believes Obama's a terrorist? Because if he does, then McCain's a moron but if he doesnt, then he's a liar.

[Archangel]

The notion that calling Sen Obama a "terrorist" is the same as stating that Mr Bush lied about Iraqi WMDs and that he started a war that has left countless of thousands dead, which are both simple fucking FACTS, is just the height of stupidity.

When Sen Obama blows up a building, or flies an airliner into one, then that's the same thing. Until then, it's frankly ridiculous and, if I may say so, beneath you, Rover.

[BIG PIZZLE]

You apparently have not seen the "Bush Is a Terrorist" T-shirts? And are you really that blind that you cant see what the media was doing there? They went to an event, tried to find the craziest person they could, who didnt know very much, and overrepresented a small fringe group of individuals.

Bush has evoked fear as a tool in nearly every one of his major speaches. He has not only terrorized foreign countries, but he has terrorized his own citizens. It's rediculous to associate someone with terrorists simply because they have a different veiw on how to approach a problem. McCain seems to be picking that tactic up quite nicely.

[Archangel]

At least man up and call him a n****r. It's spiteful, racist and ignorant, but at least it's basically as true as calling Bush a lying, mass murdering, incompetent moron.

[BIG PIZZLE]

At about the 2 minute mark is a comparison of Bush's recent speach on the economy and his speach before the US invaded Iraq. It's quite ironic.http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml?episodeId=186045

[Hobnail_Boot]

SARAH PALIN GOT BLESSED BY A CHRISTIAN WITCH DOCTOR AND THINKS MAN AND DINOSAURS ROAMED THE EARTH AT THE SAME TIME!



Weeeeeee, this is fun!
Wait, that's true...

[Mustard]

Wait, that's true...
and yet, its just as crazy as the other stuff...:rolleyes:

[Claydon]

BARACK OBAMA DRINKS HIS OWN PEE AND IS A VAMPIRE!

JOHN MCCAIN WEARS DIAPERS AND IS A ZOMBIE!

SARAH PALIN GOT BLESSED BY A CHRISTIAN WITCH DOCTOR AND THINKS MAN AND DINOSAURS ROAMED THE EARTH AT THE SAME TIME!

JOE BIDEN WANTS TO BLOW UP THE INTERNET AND IS ACTUALLY AN ALIEN!



Weeeeeee, this is fun!

Barry attended a church for over 20 years in which the pastor preached that the US government created aids, and that the CIA sold crack cocaine in the ghetto.

[BIG PIZZLE]

So by that logic, most catholics are child molesters and Palin is 100% witch free.

[Mustard]

Barry attended a church for over 20 years in which the pastor preached that the US government created aids, and that the CIA sold crack cocaine in the ghetto.
Who the fuck is Barry?

[Hobnail_Boot]

Barry attended a church for over 20 years in which the pastor preached that the US government created aids, and that the CIA sold crack cocaine in the ghetto.
Can you prove that the US government did not create AIDS and sell crack cocaine in the ghetto? /sarcasm

[Claydon]

So by that logic, most catholics are child molesters and Palin is 100% witch free.

No, just suggesting that both sides have their moronic religious bullshit that they cling too. Barry is just as guilty as palin in my opinion, for attending what is as far as I am concerned fundamentalist organizations that are on par with the zealots of the middle east.

[freegood]

Who the fuck is Barry?

The dude who will make Johnny limp.

[Mustard]

The dude who will make Johnny limp.
I don't get it, but thats ok.

[Claydon]

Can you prove that the US government did not create AIDS and sell crack cocaine in the ghetto? /sarcasm

Yes, HIV has been traced back to the late 19th century.

As for crack cocaine, the CIA could get plenty of slush money from any number of sources why dump it in the ghettos. Black leaders clung to this story with scant evidence after the Mercury News put it out in San Jose. They would love to blame a nebulous intel group rather than the real fault, the failure of so called 'black leaders', degradation of the nuclear family (a problem that crosses the race lines), and one could argue the holding up of the thug/gangsta life style (although I just see it as another passing form of entertainment not unlike satanic rock of the 80s).

[Soup Nazi]

McCain welcomed support from John Hagee for several months until it was unpopular and decided to reject it (though nothing really spiked that change, to be honest). Keep in mind this was the same John Hagee who said Hitler was doing gods work, called the Catholic church the "great whore" and a "false cult system", stated that Hurricane Katrina was punishment for New Orleans due to sinning and is a stunning proponent of a biblical end of days prophecy which starts with christian nations fighting islam in the middle east.

What's the point here? Mudslinging is a 2-way street, McCain's spiritual advisor(s) are no more clean then Obama's, so both should be irrelevant.

[Claydon]

Who the fuck is Barry?

Barry is Obama's real name.

I shall now use a classic 1980s movie demonstrate my feelings about his name change.

nevermind, can't find the clip...shit

[Claydon]

McCain welcomed support from John Hagee for several months until it was unpopular and decided to reject it (though nothing really spiked that change, to be honest). Keep in mind this was the same John Hagee who said Hitler was doing gods work, called the Catholic church the "great whore" and a "false cult system", stated that Hurricane Katrina was punishment for New Orleans due to sinning and is a stunning proponent of a biblical end of days prophecy which starts with christian nations fighting islam in the middle east.

What's the point here? Mudslinging is a 2-way street, McCain's spiritual advisor(s) are no more clean then Obama's, so both should be irrelevant.

apparently it is not if people keep brining up palin's beliefs.

[Pharon]

Barry is Obama's real name.
Barry is just the name his friends and family used for him when he was growing up. Y'know, like when your mom used to call you Matty.

The name Barack is no gayer than Matthew, really.

[BIG PIZZLE]

No, just suggesting that both sides have their moronic religious bullshit that they cling too. Barry is just as guilty as palin in my opinion, for attending what is as far as I am concerned fundamentalist organizations that are on par with the zealots of the middle east.

This country is flawed and I'm tired of people suggesting that any criticism of of the US is indicative of character flaws. The who purpose behind running for president is that you think you can fix it's problems. If John McCain thinks the US is so perfect then why the fuck is he running for president?

[Claydon]

Barry is just the name his friends and family used for him when he was growing up. Y'know, like when your mom used to call you Matty.

The name Barack is no gayer than Matthew, really.

my mother NEVER called me matty!

However, my nickname growing up was 'chainsaw'.

not sure why but it was

true story

[Claydon]

This country is flawed and I'm tired of people suggesting that any criticism of of the US is indicative of character flaws. The who purpose behind running for president is that you think you can fix it's problems. If John McCain thinks the US is so perfect then why the fuck is he running for president?

The US is flawed? I suppose Canada and Syria are damn near perfect.

Do not misunderstand, I am not suggesting the US is perfect...far from it.