Flippant Comment Discussion (P&C GenCon)

[The Dude]

So yesterday in the Palin thread I said:wow, i guess i haven't read P & C enough...i didn't realize how many bleeding heart liberal left wing nuts there are on the board.

to which was replied:

Although this is not the thread to debate it in, I would be curious to know what you mean by this statement in general.
And if that is how you would describe so 'many', how would you describe yourself?

first things first, i overstated and exagerated, and was a little bit of hyperbole. in general, by that comment i meant that most of the people attacking Palin did so by taking an extreme interpretation of her comments.

I would characterize myself as somewhere between libertarian and conservative.

let's start off with God, there were a lot of comments about Palin characterizing the iraq war as a mission from God, and her statement that the people of alaska should pray for the pipeline...etc. The basic tone that the comments took was that Palin was crossing the line into Religious Zealot territory.

i'm certainly not going to go back and discuss each and every post or find particular quotes, etc. That being said, the general objection to Palin's statements was that church and state must be separate. It was brought up that most decisions come down to some sort of intuition or it might be a coin flip, point being, there are many things that can affect how a leader makes a decision.

so a few questions...

1. is it a problem that our money has "in god we trust" printed on it?

2. if it's a problem that a politician says that something is god's will, doesn't that acknowledge the existince of god?

3. if an all-knowing and all-powerful god did exist, would things not be done "according to god's plan" or "the will of god?"

[Stax]

1. is it a problem that our money has "in god we trust" printed on it?

No, it's words on paper.



2. if it's a problem that a politician says that something is god's will, doesn't that acknowledge the existince of god?

I don't really care about that, I more care about someone with management powers over trillions of dollars and the American military attributing things to God rather than measurable, controllable, analyze-able forces.


3. if an all-knowing and all-powerful god did exist, would things not be done "according to god's plan" or "the will of god?"

I think the theory behind Judeo-Christianity is that God has a plan, but we have free will. That is, he may know what will happen but it has been left to us and our personal choices as to how things will happen. Does rather contradict everyone who says "God works in mysterious ways" and "It's all part of God's plan", but fuck them.

[Desperado]

1. is it a problem that our money has "in god we trust" printed on it?


Great story about that....



SAN FRANCISCO - An atheist who has spent four years trying to ban the Pledge of Allegiance from being recited in public schools is now challenging the motto printed on U.S. currency because it refers to God.Michael Newdow seeks to remove “In God We Trust” from U.S. coins and dollar bills, claiming in a federal lawsuit filed Thursday that the motto is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion.
Newdow, a Sacramento doctor and lawyer, used a similar argument when he challenged the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools because it contains the words “under God.”


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10103424/#storyContinued

[Smokestack]

1. is it a problem that our money has "in god we trust" printed on it?

2. if it's a problem that a politician says that something is god's will, doesn't that acknowledge the existince of god?

3. if an all-knowing and all-powerful god did exist, would things not be done "according to god's plan" or "the will of god?"

1. Nope. There's Latin on there as well, which might offend the "English is our official language" crowd. If it's reasonably unoffensive and traditional, I say keep it.

2. Politicians should be able to state (but hopefully not overstate) their religious beliefs and we should be able to judge or not judge them by those beliefs and whatever else constitutes who they are.

3. This one is an "if" and will never be definitively answered.

[The Dude]

No, it's words on paper.



I don't really care about that, I more care about someone with management powers over trillions of dollars and the American military attributing things to God rather than measurable, controllable, analyze-able forces.



I think the theory behind Judeo-Christianity is that God has a plan, but we have free will. That is, he may know what will happen but it has been left to us and our personal choices as to how things will happen. Does rather contradict everyone who says "God works in mysterious ways" and "It's all part of God's plan", but fuck them.

Your first two point seem entirely contradictory...the argument could then be made that "it's just words out of someone's mouth"

regarding iraq, i think if you were to ask Palin why we went in the first place, the response would be a combination of harboring terrorism and human rights violations. Because she has her faith in god, she believes that the real world events (which are completely analyzable et al) --free will-- as you have referred to it has led the country to action.

She may be religious, but she's not a far right evangelical. It's not like she's saying, "because we have faith in god to protect them, our troops don't need armament"

[The Dude]

1. Nope. There's Latin on there as well, which might offend the "English is our official language" crowd. If it's reasonably unoffensive and traditional, I say keep it.

2. Politicians should be able to state (but hopefully not overstate) their religious beliefs and we should be able to judge or not judge them by those beliefs and whatever else constitutes who they are.

3. This one is an "if" and will never be definitively answered.

question 3 was more based on the acceptance of the premise of question 2, which was basically saying, by taking issue with a politician referring to their faith, one ipso facto acknowledges the existence of god. Going back to the other points that were made, call the mitigating factors that go into a decision whatever you want. If one denies the existence of god, then a leader who references faith is really referencing his conscience and it's a moot point. so, by acknowledging that there is an issue with a Leader's faith, that on premise accepts the existence of god, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue.

and so question 3 was really then saying, if one acknowledges the existence of god, then wouldn't it be a pretty smart fucking idea to do what he wants?

[Tar Heel]

She does want to teach creationism in schools though, so she does worry me.

[Smokestack]

question 3 was more based on the acceptance of the premise of question 2, which was basically saying, by taking issue with a politician referring to their faith, one ipso facto acknowledges the existence of god. Going back to the other points that were made, call the mitigating factors that go into a decision whatever you want. If one denies the existence of god, then a leader who references faith is really referencing his conscience and it's a moot point. so, by acknowledging that there is an issue with a Leader's faith, that on premise accepts the existence of god, otherwise it wouldn't be an issue.

and so question 3 was really then saying, if one acknowledges the existence of god, then wouldn't it be a pretty smart fucking idea to do what he wants?

Well, this assumes that a leader's belief or non-belief in God is the sole, or at least major, factor that constitutes how they lead. For me, I have no problem with a good leader believing in a god I don't believe in as long as I don't feel it influences their policy in a bad way.

[Rover]

She does want to teach creationism in schools though, so she does worry me.Because ideas are scary and schools should be more Indoctrination Centers than places where ideas are discussed.

[Smokestack]

Because ideas are scary and schools should be more Indoctrination Centers than places where ideas are discussed.

Teaching religious ideas in school is very scary, actually....especially if taught as a viable alternative to ideas grounded in science. There are private schools or homeschooling if you're into that kind of thing.

[freegood]

Because ideas are scary and schools should be more Indoctrination Centers than places where ideas are discussed.

Creationism isn't science. At best, it's philosophy.

Injecting creationism in science classes does make schools more like Indoctrination Centers.

[Tar Heel]

Because ideas are scary and schools should be more Indoctrination Centers than places where ideas are discussed.


Don't be stupid. There are tons of things that are way more pertinent and that are grounded in research that don't make it to the public school curriculum. Shit, most high schools don't even offer a simple finance class that would teach kids how to balance, keep track of, and budget money. That would be one of the most beneficial things that a high school student could learn. But it's not like any politicians are actually worried about educating our students for future success so we don't hear anything like this.

[freegood]

1. is it a problem that our money has "in god we trust" printed on it?


I'm not sure if there's an atheist movement to remove it. Is it a legit problem or strawman?


2. if it's a problem that a politician says that something is god's will, doesn't that acknowledge the existince of god?

Saying a human derived disaster as God's will is a lame and old political tactic. It promotes lazy and assumptive thinking, and a genuine lack of discourse into the roots of the problem. That is not leadership, and I wouldn't elect someone who relied on it to calm people down. It's not to say I held it against Palin. I would if she kept on repeating it to shore up voters because it offers nothing of a real solution.


3. if an all-knowing and all-powerful god did exist, would things not be done "according to god's plan" or "the will of god?"


Who knows... Maybe God's plan is the minute details of your life. Maybe dinosaurs were one part of God's plan and we're just another cog to His machine. Aren't we but an ant (or bacteria....) to God?

[Federal Farmer]

LOL you think Carter is worse than Dubya?

Remind me again which quagmire Carter got us into that resulted in the taxpayers being forced to spend hundreds of billions of dollars (soon to be a trillion or more), the quagmire that has so thoroughly tarnished the US's once proud name in the world abroad, the quagmire that has weakened the US's great military and good standing, and the quagmire that has cost us over 4000 servicemen?

Carter, for all of his faults and inaction, never EVER fucked up so monumentally like shrub has. To say Carter is the worst is just flat wrong. To insist on that path would remove all credibility.

Too young to remember the late 70's huh? Let's see, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, double digit unemployment, and the energy crisis. Carters incompetent Federal Reserve appointment of Paul Volcker gave us a Prime Rate of 21.5%, the highest in our nations history, and an inflation adjusted deficit of $223 Billion dollars, or $1,034.31 for every man, woman, and child in America. Today, under what you Libs call "the worst President in history", we've got a deficit of $163 Bn (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071011-1.html), or $543.33 for every man woman and child in America, a Prime Rate of 5%, a 5.7% unemployment rate, 5.6% inflation. If President Bush is the "worst President in American history", you must be COMPLETELY through the looking glass, and sitting beside the Red Queen screeching that "words mean what I want them to mean, when I want them to mean them".

[Federal Farmer]

Yah, and his stellar performance with the take over of the US embassy was awe inspiring. His limp wristed response to the invasion by the soviets in afghanistan brings a patriotic tear to my eye. I will give him credit for one thing and one thing only......... Alaskan Pipeline.

Don't forget the total surrender to Panama!

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Just curious Sink...

Planning on answering Federal Farmer's reply to you, or will it be business as usual for you?

Too young to remember the late 70's huh? Let's see, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, double digit unemployment, and the energy crisis. Carters incompetent Federal Reserve appointment of Paul Volcker gave us a Prime Rate of 21.5%, the highest in our nations history, and an inflation adjusted deficit of $223 Billion dollars, or $1,034.31 for every man, woman, and child in America. Today, under what you Libs call "the worst President in history", we've got a deficit of $163 Bn (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071011-1.html), or $543.33 for every man woman and child in America, a Prime Rate of 5%, a 5.7% unemployment rate, 5.6% inflation. If President Bush is the "worst President in American history", you must be COMPLETELY through the looking glass, and sitting beside the Red Queen screeching that "words mean what I want them to mean, when I want them to mean them".

[Federal Farmer]

Just curious Sink...

Planning on answering Federal Farmer's reply to you, or will it be business as usual for you?

Not only do I not expect a response, I fully expect the usual flood of "hate attacks" on my "rep", as if it makes any difference anyway. It's Libtards standard tactics to either ignore the facts because they know they can't refute them, or to attack the messenger when they have the temerity to blow holes all through their less than well thought out BS Libtard diatribes and "Hate America First" bullshit.

[kid_vidrio]

We hadn't recreated a general conversation thread so you fuckstix get a pass on this one, but stay on topic in named threads. 'Election 08' is about that - not Jimmy Carter or your love or Rush Limbaugh.

As for the Carter question, I was there, and though I debated in favor of Ford, I was not able to find a compendium of information to support your theory.
I did find this though:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-carterreagan.htm

[Tar Heel]

Too young to remember the late 70's huh? Let's see, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, double digit unemployment, and the energy crisis. Carters incompetent Federal Reserve appointment of Paul Volcker gave us a Prime Rate of 21.5%, the highest in our nations history, and an inflation adjusted deficit of $223 Billion dollars, or $1,034.31 for every man, woman, and child in America. Today, under what you Libs call "the worst President in history", we've got a deficit of $163 Bn (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071011-1.html), or $543.33 for every man woman and child in America, a Prime Rate of 5%, a 5.7% unemployment rate, 5.6% inflation. If President Bush is the "worst President in American history", you must be COMPLETELY through the looking glass, and sitting beside the Red Queen screeching that "words mean what I want them to mean, when I want them to mean them".

Arguing that Carter is responsible for the shitty economy in the 70's is like arguing that Clinton was responsible for the Prosperity in the 90's.

[kid_vidrio]

Arguing that any president can have impact within 4 years is pretty well acknowledged as iffy.

[Federal Farmer]

Arguing that Carter is responsible for the shitty economy in the 70's is like arguing that Clinton was responsible for the Prosperity in the 90's.

Are you 12, or just plain stupid? Seriously, were you working during the Carter years, or are you just another of the revisionist Carter apologists?:rolleyes:

The economy, while not in great shape in '75, was an absolute BOON compared to where it was when Mr. Peanut left office IN SHAME, and it was primarily due to HIS bad choices in selecting the heads of his departments, and HIS bad choices in economic affairs, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.

[Federal Farmer]

Arguing that any president can have impact within 4 years is pretty well acknowledged as iffy.

Normally I would agree, but in the case of the Carter administration, he is the exception that PROVES the rule.

[Federal Farmer]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of the gutless, cheese-eating, barking moonbat, surrender monkeys, The Batman, Insomniac, Axel, Stax, and The Sink for reinforcing my belief that Libtards lack the intellectual ability to discuss or dispute facts without turning into a bunch of backstabbing pieces of shit.

Late Edit:

I'd also like to add Tar Heel to the list of worthless piece of shit. You must be one of those Charlotte nimnods.

[Tar Heel]

Are you 12, or just plain stupid? Seriously, were you working during the Carter years, or are you just another of the revisionist Carter apologists?:rolleyes:

The economy, while not in great shape in '75, was an absolute BOON compared to where it was when Mr. Peanut left office IN SHAME, and it was primarily due to HIS bad choices in selecting the heads of his departments, and HIS bad choices in economic affairs, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION.

I think you are the one with the IQ of the 12 year old downs kid. Anyone that can blame a decade of economic shittiness on a one term president has a seriouls lack of understanding for the federal system.

Dumbass.

[The Batman]

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of the gutless, cheese-eating, barking moonbat, surrender monkeys, The Batman, Insomniac, Axel, Stax, and The Sink for reinforcing my belief that Libtards lack the intellectual ability to discuss or dispute facts without turning into a bunch of backstabbing pieces of shit.


Its not a problem. I am sure your belief in everything will be alright because its Republican will also help the country greatly. And I am pretty sure most of us, has reinforced everything we said with facts or a sense of logic that you obviously don't possess. And I don't remember backstabbing anyone.
Insomniac? Stax? Axel? I don't remember you doing that either.

[Morfin]

EG's fart was a back-stab, of sorts.

[kid_vidrio]

We hadn't recreated a general conversation thread so you fuckstix get a pass on this one, but stay on topic in named threads. 'Election 08' is about that - not Jimmy Carter or your love or Rush Limbaugh.

As for the Carter question, I was there, and though I debated in favor of Ford, I was not able to find a compendium of information to support your theory.
I did find this though:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-carterreagan.htm
I was kinda hoping to get someone's feedback on the above linked.
Myth: Carter ruined the economy; Reagan saved it.

Fact: The Federal Reserve Board was responsible for the events of the late 70s and 80s.
Summary

Carter cannot be blamed for the double-digit inflation that peaked on his watch, because inflation started growing in 1965 and snowballed for the next 15 years. To battle inflation, Carter appointed Paul Volcker as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, who defeated it by putting the nation through an intentional recession. Once the threat of inflation abated in late 1982, Volcker cut interest rates and flooded the economy with money, fueling an expansion that lasted seven years. Neither Carter nor Reagan had much to do with the economic events that occurred during their terms.

[The Batman]

But I'm a libertarian conservative!

i am an indenpendent. I just want who can do the best job to win. I just won't make my vote based on the guy who thinks he is the second coming of Christ.

[}{arlequin]

I don't fit in. :(
it's b/c you have too much common sense

[Federal Farmer]

I think you are the one with the IQ of the 12 year old downs kid. Anyone that can blame a decade of economic shittiness on a one term president has a seriouls lack of understanding for the federal system.

Dumbass.

So you obviously ARE entirely too young to remember the Carter years. Just what I thought, another brainless Libtard with no concept of history.

[Morfin]

Farmer: I seriously hoped you would not make the switch to the new forum. No, not out of fear for your sterling logic or rapier wit, but merely because you are a troll: adding a small amount to the discussion but then totally overwhelming any of its merit by coating it with insults masquerading as bravado. Go back in your hole.

[The Batman]

Farmer: Go back in your hole.

And die.

[Federal Farmer]

I was kinda hoping to get someone's feedback on the above linked.
Myth: Carter ruined the economy; Reagan saved it.

Fact: The Federal Reserve Board was responsible for the events of the late 70s and 80s.

Summary

Carter cannot be blamed for the double-digit inflation that peaked on his watch, because inflation started growing in 1965 and snowballed for the next 15 years. To battle inflation, Carter appointed Paul Volcker as Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, who defeated it by putting the nation through an intentional recession. Once the threat of inflation abated in late 1982, Volcker cut interest rates and flooded the economy with money, fueling an expansion that lasted seven years. Neither Carter nor Reagan had much to do with the economic events that occurred during their terms.

Unfortunately, the data in your Source does not support the conclusions in the summary.

The data in your source clearly shows that inflation had dropped dramatically following the oil crisis, to 5.8% in 1976 where it fairly steadily grew until March of '80 when it reached 14.88%, then dropped off again to 8.73% in June of '80 before climbing back to 13.26% by the time Reagan took office in January of '81. Inflation continued to climb during the first few months of Reagans presidency where it finally peaked at 16.46% in Sept. of '81 before starting it's decline, which, with the policies of President Reagan continued by President GHW Bush, reaching a low of 4.39% by the time President Clinton took office in January of '92. During the Clinton years, inflation rocked along varying between the high 3% to the high 6% range, and under the administration of President GW Bush, it has varied to as low as 1.23% in June of '03, to a high of 5.12% in June and July of '06, and dropping off again to it's current 2.42%. SOURCE = FEDERAL RESERVE (http://www.federalreserve.gov/RELEASES/h15/data/Monthly/H15_TCMNOM_Y2.txt)

Also, Volcker's tinkering with the Prime did nothing but excaserbate an already bad situation, making it far worse than it was when he got there. Fortunately when Reagan re-appointed him to the Fed in '83, he had learned from his previous errors and was able to finally get things under control. The fact is that in December of '76 right before Carter took office, the prime interest rate was at 6.25% having fallen from a high of 12% in July of '74. After Carter took office, it steadily rose, reaching 20% in April of 1980, and finally peaking at 21.5% in December of '80 right before President Reagan took office. It took the Reagan administration until early in his second term (June of '85) before they were finally able to reverse the damage done during the Carter years, finally getting interest rates below double-digits, before rising slightly back up to 11% right before GHW Bush took office, and again, continuing the policies of Reagan, getting it back down to single-digits, and turning over a 6% Prime Interest rate to President Clinton, who managed to get it back up to almost 10% before leaving office, and President Bush has managed to beat it back down to where we are today at 5%. SOURCE = Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis (http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/PRIME.txt)

The fact is, your "source" fails to comprehend that the actions of the Federal Reserve are one of the primary regulating factors in Interest and Inflation, and when an Administration implements the reckless policies that were undertaken almost immediately after Carter parked his peanut growing ass in the White House, the shit is definately going to hit the fan, and it DID.

It is also a fact that your "source" is also nothing but a liberal spin machine, probably because that's what his/her Libtard Professor taught him/her, and they swilled the Kool-Aide by the 55 gallon drum full so that they could get a passing grade.

[Federal Farmer]

Farmer: I seriously hoped you would not make the switch to the new forum. No, not out of fear for your sterling logic or rapier wit, but merely because you are a troll: adding a small amount to the discussion but then totally overwhelming any of its merit by coating it with insults masquerading as bravado. Go back in your hole.

Adding a small amount to the conversations here, is adding a mountain. Maybe if some of you were able to actually engage in an intelligent discussion without spending so much time sucking each other off in your typical Libtard fashion, something of substance might have been discovered. But alas, all you're interested in is playing with yourselves and ignoring facts, so when someone like me comes along and presents you with those facts, you immediatly roll into full out insult mode, and then have the temerity to act shocked with I throw your BULLSHIT right back in your face?

Fuck you, AND the hole you fell out of.

[kid_vidrio]

Also, Volcker's tinkering with the Prime did nothing but excaserbate an already bad situation, making it far worse than it was when he got there.

The fact is, your "source" fails to comprehend that the actions of the Federal Reserve are one of the primary regulating factors in Interest and Inflation, and when an Administration implements the reckless policies that were undertaken almost immediately after Carter parked his peanut growing ass in the White House, the shit is definately going to hit the fan, and it DID.

It is also a fact that your "source" is also nothing but a liberal spin machine, probably because that's what his/her Libtard Professor taught him/her, and they swilled the Kool-Aide by the 55 gallon drum full so that they could get a passing grade.
I kept teh Volker tinkering bit since you conveniently fail to mention Herr Greenspan's tinkering, which probably had at least somethign to do with Freddie and Fanny.
But let's get to a real issue. Like you looking at T-Bill rates and quoting it as inflation.
I want to believe you aren't what you seem, but you keep providing proof.
Anyway, for some inflation data, which is based on actual inflation data, and pretty much supports the article I quoted, go here: http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx?dsInflation_currentPage=2

[Okie Medicvet]

I thought we were supposed to be flippant about shit here?? Oh well, I will give it a shot myself..

VOTE ABP IN 'O8

ANYBODY BUT PALIN

[Federal Farmer]

I kept teh Volker tinkering bit since you conveniently fail to mention Herr Greenspan's tinkering, which probably had at least somethign to do with Freddie and Fanny.

Well, considering that neither Greenspan, nor Freedy and Fannie have a damned thing to do with Carters driving the economy into the toilet, your point is....WHAT???

But let's get to a real issue. Like you looking at T-Bill rates and quoting it as inflation.
I want to believe you aren't what you seem, but you keep providing proof.
Anyway, for some inflation data, which is based on actual inflation data, and pretty much supports the article I quoted, go here: http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx?dsInflation_currentPage=2

I didn't quote "T-Bills", I qouted the Federal Reserve Banks PRIME INTEREST RATES on which T-Bills are based, which BTW, happens to be the very same information that your source defived it's inflation numbers from. I know that some of these concepts are a bit difficult to follow, but, please, do try to keep up here.

[Pike Bishop]

I thought we were supposed to be flippant about shit here?? Oh well, I will give it a shot myself..

VOTE ABP IN 'O8

ANYBODY BUT PALIN

How's this for flip:

You know the difference between Trent Lott and Sarah Palin, right?

Lipstick.

[Okie Medicvet]

good one! :D

[Stax]

How's this for flip:

You know the difference between Trent Lott and Sarah Palin, right?

Lipstick.

You know the difference between Sarah Palin and a generic soccer mom with no business managing a Denny's let alone a country?

A joke about lipstick.

[Angry Ass Messican Dude]

You know the difference between Barak Obama and a piece of shit? Nothing but a desire to be President.

Ohhhh

[BiōHazard]

That is a very fair point, and you know what your probably right, but I would say experience would dictate what you would choose to do in certain situations and show if your borderline retarded like the people we have in the White House right now.
While this is true, I like most people figured bush would be good at best.
Then Afghanistan happened and i thought, its cool, payback ya know, but then the WMD bullshit, then War in Iraq, then Katrina, and the list goes on(Including starting shit with IRAN and Russia).
Its not that he is bad, its just he makes stupid decisions. I think this country is SO dependent on how others see us and the welfare of giving giving giving, that WE don't give a fuck about what's happening here. Its sickening really.....

[Yelram]

While this is true, I like most people figured bush would be good at best.
Then Afghanistan happened and i thought, its cool, payback ya know, but then the WMD bullshit, then War in Iraq, then Katrina, and the list goes on(Including starting shit with IRAN and Russia).
Its not that he is bad, its just he makes stupid decisions. I think this country is SO dependent on how others see us and the welfare of giving giving giving, that WE don't give a fuck about what's happening here. Its sickening really.....

Starting shit with Iran and Russia? Where do you guys get your fucking news?

[The Batman]

While this is true, I like most people figured bush would be good at best.
Then Afghanistan happened and i thought, its cool, payback ya know, but then the WMD bullshit, then War in Iraq, then Katrina, and the list goes on(Including starting shit with IRAN and Russia).
Its not that he is bad, its just he makes stupid decisions. I think this country is SO dependent on how others see us and the welfare of giving giving giving, that WE don't give a fuck about what's happening here. Its sickening really.....

The only reason I thought he would not be a good president was his experience as a business owner and as someone who has run many companies into the ground. I am not sure if I am right about this, but I am pretty sure I am close, but Bush has never successfully run a business. That includes the oil business and the baseball team he tried to run. My thought process has always been that the US is really one giant corporation and if you bankrupt every single one you tried to run before, what makes anyone think he would handle being a president any better? But, I was hopeful, as I am sure as a lot of people were that he could do a good job. When Bush started to run for office he talked a great game. Then reality hit.

[The Batman]

Starting shit with Iran and Russia? Where do you guys get your fucking news?

I don't think he started anything with Iran, but he certainly isn't making it any better by calling them a part of the AXIS OF EVIL. (I am not saying it isn't necessarily true, but when you are trying to negotiate with an enemy, it probably isn't smart to say that they are the devil.)

[BiōHazard]

Starting shit with Iran and Russia? Where do you guys get your fucking news?
Last I heard we disagree with the way Iran is handling nukes, seen here (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_48/b3910084_mz015.htm) and we also dont care for the fact that Russia is "just visiting" Georgia, seen here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2575486/Georgia-conflict-Condoleezza-Rice-toughens-stance-towards-Russia.html)

I don't know about you, but saying russia will pay isn't exactly friendly.
Prime example of how we are the big brother to every piddly ass country when we can even afford to give our own some help (See: Yelram getting free psych help)

[BiōHazard]

Now granted the tone has settled down, it is publicly known that we were at one point not happy with Iran.

[The Batman]

Now granted the tone has settled down, it is publicly known that we were at one point not happy with Iran.

IE: Axis of Evil.

[Yelram]

Last I heard we disagree with the way Iran is handling nukes, seen here (http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_48/b3910084_mz015.htm) and we also dont care for the fact that Russia is "just visiting" Georgia, seen here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2575486/Georgia-conflict-Condoleezza-Rice-toughens-stance-towards-Russia.html)

I don't know about you, but saying russia will pay isn't exactly friendly.
Prime example of how we are the big brother to every piddly ass country when we can even afford to give our own some help (See: Yelram getting free psych help)
Please tell me you arent registered to vote... The way Iran is handling nukes? If we DONT speak out against things, the results can be much worse. If you want to live during isolationism, go charge up your flux capacitor to 1.8 gigawatts, and blast back to the 30s, or earlier.

[BiōHazard]

Please tell me you arent registered to vote... The way Iran is handling nukes? If we DONT speak out against things, the results can be much worse. If you want to live during isolationism, go charge up your flux capacitor to 1.8 gigawatts, and blast back to the 30s, or earlier.
So i'm pretty sure everyone else sits back and doesnt say shit and i'm pretty sure they are still around. It makes us look like pricks when we whine about everything. Could that be the reason any country with a brain hates us? Believe me if we were to get attacked it wouldnt be too hard to do so, so dont pull this "We have to say/do something or we will get attacked" bullshit.
The best comparision i can think of right now would be us-the rebelous teen and the "enemies" are a bees/beehive. Yeah we want to kill them so they dont hurt us but as soon as we fuck with that beehive and let our guard down, its going to be bad. Better to leave shit alone, than to get fucked.

and I'm done. Fuck politics.

[Yelram]

So i'm pretty sure everyone else sits back and doesnt say shit and i'm pretty sure they are still around. It makes us look like pricks when we whine about everything. Could that be the reason any country with a brain hates us? Believe me if we were to get attacked it wouldnt be too hard to do so, so dont pull this "We have to say/do something or we will get attacked" bullshit.
The best comparision i can think of right now would be us-the rebelous teen and the "enemies" are a bees/beehive. Yeah we want to kill them so they dont hurt us but as soon as we fuck with that beehive and let our guard down, its going to be bad. Better to leave shit alone, than to get fucked.

and I'm done. Fuck politics.

Well its good to see that your 2 day investigation into politics for highschool civics is done, and looks like you're gonna fail. Every country with a brain hates us? ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED MAN!?!? Go look at the calendar, find the date, and then go find a book about history, and read.

[BiōHazard]

Well its good to see that your 2 day investigation into politics for highschool civics is done, and looks like you're gonna fail. Every country with a brain hates us? ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED MAN!?!? Go look at the calendar, find the date, and then go find a book about history, and read.
Ok.your the ultimatum on politics.i am not worthy.
fag.

[Hanover Fist]

I sold my tahoe and bought a blazer.
Strictly convenience. My next car has a 100% chance of being a Toyota.
But the 'buy american' deal is not complete bullshit.
Though I am a huge proponent of global markets and cultural understanding, I also believe outsourcing industry has weakened our position in the world and left us with really shitty products.

Outsourcing industry has nothing to do with "Buying American" though and everything to do with trying to stay profitable by escaping tax burdens, high labor costs, unions, regulation costs, environmental cost burdens etc etc etc.
If anything our shitty products are a result of the "Buy American" attitude.
If people continue to buy certain products strictly on the basis of whether they were made in America or not and not whether they are the best product for their money, then the incentive to make better products in America is undermined.
If a company knows you will buy their product regardless of how they make it simply because it has the "Made in the USA" label on it, why are they going to bother to invest to improve it?

[kid_vidrio]

Outsourcing industry has nothing to do with "Buying American" though and everything to do with trying to stay profitable by escaping tax burdens, high labor costs, unions, regulation costs, environmental cost burdens etc etc etc.
If anything our shitty products are a result of the "Buy American" attitude.
If people continue to buy certain products strictly on the basis of whether they were made in America or not and not whether they are the best product for their money, then the incentive to make better products in America is undermined.
If a company knows you will buy their product regardless of how they make it simply because it has the "Made in the USA" label on it, why are they going to bother to invest to improve it?
Your post makes no sense at all.
If the purpose of corporate industry is solely to make corporate profit which provides very little economic support internally, then you are correct.
But if we, as US citizens, were interested in bolstering our economy with well made durable goods and the wages paid to assemble them, then 'Buying American' has everything to do with outsourcing industry.

For years Bush Co has said the economy is good because corporate earnings are up, but it doesn't work that way. We're all going to learn the hard way why voodoo 'supply side' trickle-down economics is a reasonable theory if you are in the top 2% of the economic strata.

Newsflash for anyone that's about to call me a communist for saying Reagan's policy was a bullshit failure but you can not believe in it as a viable option and still be all-american and fiscally conservative.

[Archangel]

At least "made in Germany" still counts for something.

[Claydon]

At least "made in Germany" still counts for something.

Yah, especially when it is turkish workers on 'temporary' visas.

[Tar Heel]

this thread is like herpes. It's never going to go away.

[Claydon]

I never got this either. I mean, here, if you're a PhD or even a full professor, your chances of getting elected go up, not down. Hell, I'm hard pressed to name one president of the federal republic who DIDN'T have a graduate degree.

Honestly, how can you elect someone to have control over a large part of the global economy, several thousand nuclear warheads, and the world's most powerful military based on the fact that "he don't talk like them there college types"?

Truman was not exactly a scholar and we all know what he did.

[vasili denisov]

I'm bringing this back up in association with something related.
I will believe that Obama doesn't have a pass from the media when they ask him about violating the Logan Act on his recent trip to Iraq.
This stems from this article (http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/obama_tried_to_stall_gis_iraq_withdrawal_129150.ht m) which accused Obama of petitioning the Maliki government to delay withdrawal of american troops. The Logan act prohibits negotiations on the part of citizens not charged with that role. This accusation was refuted (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/undermining-mcc.html) by Republican Chuck Hagel and members of the Bush Administration. So, your belief in a fair and balanced media is restored.

On the other hand, though I'd like to hear the source and details of this interview, I find this excerpt from a Maliki interview disturbing. It's in response to why the date of 2011 was selected for withdrawal of american troops.


MALIKI: Actually, the final date was really the end of 2010 and the period between the end of 2010 and the end of 2011 was for withdrawing the remaining troops from all of Iraq, but they [the Bush administration] asked for a change [in date] due to political circumstances related to the domestic situation [in the US] so it will not be said to the end of 2010 followed by one year for withdrawal but the end of 2011 as a final date. Agreement has been reached on this issue. They are willing to respond positively because they, too, are facing a critical situation.
http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/09/23/maliki-timeline-2011/


So, if there's any basis to this, (and I'd like to see the full interview) 2011 was selected to distinguish the administration's, and McCain's, stance from Obama's. It's not a violation of the Logan Act, just ruthless game playing for short-term political consideration. If there is any truth to this, I think McCain will end up getting a pass, not because of media affection for him, but because the economy has now completely overshadowed everything else.

[kid_vidrio]

No Claydon, we don't. Why not enlighten us real quick.

If you're referring to 'the bomb' one thing is for sure. Sarah wouldn't have waited as long as Harry did to get rid of a bunch of godless civilians.

[Claydon]

No Claydon, we don't. Why not enlighten us real quick.

If you're referring to 'the bomb' one thing is for sure. Sarah wouldn't have waited as long as Harry did to get rid of a bunch of godless civilians.

The bomb was part of it, he was also instrumental in the formation of the UN and many agencies within the US federal government.

So you can take your sarcasm and cram it up arch's ass.

** Oh and a doctrine that would define US foreign policy for nearly 5 decades.

[Snatch]

Well, Truman didn't exactly have a tough act to follow. FDR made George Bush look like Abraham Lincoln.

[kid_vidrio]

Well, Truman didn't exactly have a tough act to follow. FDR made George Bush look like Abraham Lincoln.
Abe was a ruthless fucker, killing thousands of his own people through obstinate refusal to negotiate and thousand of savages through careful manipulation of food and the elements.

[vasili denisov]

Truman was not exactly a scholar and we all know what he did.
This could be used on the first day of a philosophy (or any) class as an example of poor thinking. Because object A is like object B in one property, it must be alike object B in a second unrelated property.

Harry Truman was not a scholar.
Sarah Palin was not a scholar.
Harry Truman was (arguably) a great statesman.
Therefore, Sarah Palin will be a great statesman.

Britney Spears, Silkk the Shocker, Tom Cruise are not great scholars.
Therefore, they will be great statesmen.

[Claydon]

This could be used on the first day of a philosophy (or any) class as an example of poor thinking. Because object A is like object B in one property, it must be alike object B in a second unrelated property.

Harry Truman was not a scholar.
Sarah Palin was not a scholar.
Harry Truman was (arguably) a great statesman.
Therefore, Sarah Palin will be a great statesman.

Britney Spears, Silkk the Shocker, Tom Cruise are not great scholars.
Therefore, they will be great statesmen.

You are being a woman and jumping to a conclusion prematurely. I never suggested she would be a great statesman, I am suggesting that we cannot judge her for what she has not yet done. If you want to dislike her because you dislike her positions on abortion, education, taxes, spending or foreign policy views (or the lack their of) very well.

[Tar Heel]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/319098225_e3fb99541f.jpg?v=0

[Claydon]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/319098225_e3fb99541f.jpg?v=0

Reminds me of my credit union...minus the sign.

[Tar Heel]

I like the drive through window.

[kid_vidrio]

this thread is like herpes. It's never going to go away.
Can we call you Zoster, king of the legion?

[Tar Heel]

... wut?

[Da Raider]

I'm going to vote how Rush and Air America tell me to vote.

[Archangel]

You are being a woman

And the pencil necked wine slurping faggot teaches us to be men again.

[Claydon]

And the pencil necked wine slurping faggot teaches us to be men again.

well someone has too, or you will go back to licking the frenchmen's balls once again.

bad arch!

[Tar Heel]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/tarheel2k5/claysome.jpg

[Claydon]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/tarheel2k5/claysome.jpg

QFT

[Morfin]

McCain and his wife were asked today how many houses they own.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/POLITICS/09/26/debate.mississippi/t1home.1255.mccains.ap.jpg

[Deadhead Derek]

Read this, but as an Iraqi writing it about George bush......

The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

[Deadhead Derek]

Cheney's abnormal heart rhythm returns (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/0-0-0&fp=48f690f13cb3d094&ei=Yhz2SLb5Lo6EggPqnOGaCQ&url=http%3A//www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/15/cheney.hospital/&cid=1258147760&usg=AFQjCNG2_fWAf8gqmApX3QV7gMBstjxt2w)
CNN -1 hour ago
Uh, it's called a heartbeat, Darth......

[Hanover Fist]

So should we hold Daschle to his word?

“Make no mistake, tax cheaters cheat us all, and the IRS should enforce our laws to the letter.” - Sen. Tom Daschle, Congressional Record, May 7, 1998, p. S4507.

[Grieves]

Obama sure knows how to pick'em.

[Deadhead Derek]

So should we hold Daschle to his word?

“Make no mistake, tax cheaters cheat us all, and the IRS should enforce our laws to the letter.” - Sen. Tom Daschle, Congressional Record, May 7, 1998, p. S4507.

Yes, yes, we should. Zero fuckin tolerance for poles. You write it, and you break it, you are out. period.

[Mustard]

Seconded.

[Hanover Fist]

Obamas nominee for his "performance csar" Nancy Killefer has just withdrawn her nomination to that post for guess what?...........She didn't pay taxes....Hahahahaha....What the fuck, do any Democrats pay taxes anymore?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gfS4MpLstbt1vSBTODBVsglt8gnQD9645SPG0

Official: Performance czar withdraws candidacy

By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN – 25 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — An Obama administration official says Nancy Killefer is withdrawing her candidacy to be the first chief performance officer for the federal government.

The official said the 55-year-old executive with consulting giant McKinsey & Co., will detail her reason for pulling out later Tuesday.

When her selection was announced by President Barack Obama on Jan. 7, The Associated Press disclosed that in 2005 the District of Columbia government had filed a more than $900 tax lien on her home for failure to pay unemployment compensation tax on household help.

Since then, administration officials have refused to answer questions about the tax error which she resolved five months after the lien was filed.

[Morfin]

Can we stop with all the czar crap? Drug czar, Car czar, performance czar? Who the fuck came up with performance czar?

And what is up with a performance czar to oversee efficiency with governmental programs? Another layer of unneeded bureaucracy. I've got an idea. It's a wacky one. Left field stuff. How 'bout Obama tell those people in charge of the various governmental programs to -- ta da -- be more efficient and work on cutting down bureaucracy. Only in government can you attempt to cut down bureaucracy by adding more bureaucracy.

Fucking A. I need another Diet Coke. Who is the pop czar?

[redsox39]

Can we stop with all the czar crap? Drug czar, Car czar, performance czar? Who the fuck came up with performance czar?

And what is up with a performance czar to oversee efficiency with governmental programs? Another layer of unneeded bureaucracy. I've got an idea. It's a wacky one. Left field stuff. How 'bout Obama tell those people in charge of the various governmental programs to -- ta da -- be more efficient and work on cutting down bureaucracy. Only in government can you attempt to cut down bureaucracy by adding more bureaucracy.

Fucking A. I need another Diet Coke. Who is the pop czar?


Look! We are anti-Commie! We use the word "Czar", and what can be more anti-commie than that?!?!

[Hanover Fist]

Considering Daschles current woes, it makes one of his old campaign commercials even more funny/sad/poignant/disgusting?
A penny saved is a penny earned eh? I guess if you consider not paying taxes money saved.
rdrp8vIoofA

[Hanover Fist]

Well Daschle just withdrew his nomination for H&HS Sec. , can someone please tell me how what he did was worse than the guy that got confirmed as Treasury Secretary?


Oh and Obama, Keep it up bro you're knocking it out of the park. Or as the old SinkBoy would say Obama, the gift that keeps on giving....to republicans.

[Morfin]

Very disappointing that Obama would pick that guy in the first place. I was ecstatic when he lost; pissed when Obama tried to bring him back.

Difference between Daschle and the other guy? Could be that he had no real friends from his senate leadership days, little political clout as he lost as a frickin' incumbent. Thus, no one who would fight for him. Geither, being an unknown, may get more slack. May have less enemies. Who knows.

[Alcestis]

Daschle withdraws nomination for HHS job

WASHINGTON - Former Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle on Tuesday withdrew his nomination to oversee the Health and Human Services Department, just a few hours after another Obama nominee also withdrew.

Both had controveries with taxes and cited distractions over that as their reasons for withdrawing.

In a White House statement, President Barack Obama said he accepted Daschle's withdrawal "with sadness and regret."

www.msnbc.msn.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28994296)

d'oh...sorry Hanover, completely missed your post.

[Claydon]

perhaps obama is as stupid as clinton was. By stupid I am not suggesting they are idiots in the larger sense.....I respect these two men and recognize that no one can achieve the office without being highly intelligent. By stupid I mean, they love handing their asses up on a silver platter to the republicans.

[Morfin]

I think Clinton handed a different body part to the Republicans.

[Hanover Fist]

Clearly the worst job in Washington DC is White House press secretary, especially when you suck at it like Gibbs. (Although to be fair, Obama is doing his darndest to make his job impossible)
He is getting grilled by the press corps, every time he says something they bring up something he said at a prior news conference that contradicts it. He is starting to look really bad and it looks like he is getting pretty irritated. I predict he will not last 1 year as press secretary, from the looks of it 6 months might be a stretch.

[Hanover Fist]

Gov. Granholm gave her State of the State address last night. It was full of the usual Dem bullshit along with the doom and gloom that is the definition of Michigan. However, she did say one smart thing, which was probably a first in her 7 years as Gov.
She said people should drink Bells beer. The same thing I have been preaching for lo' all these years.
I give Jen props for mentioning Bells and an F on the rest of her speech. Especially the shit about not approving any new coal plants...There are currently 7 proposed new coal plants currently in the works that would be affected.

Definitely some of the best beer in the country

http://www.bellsbeer.com/index.php/home

[kid_vidrio]

Regarding coal plants and beer, maybe you've seen the 'stimulus' email floating around which closes with:
If you spend that money at Wal-Mart, all the money will go to China If you spend it on gasoline it will go to the Arabs.

If you purchase a computer it will go to India.
If you purchase fruit and vegetables it will go to
Mexico, Honduras, and
Guatemala (unless you buy organic).
If you buy a car it will go to Japan.
If you purchase useless crap it will go to Taiwan.
If you pay your credit cards off, it will go to bank
management bonuses and they will hide if offshore. Same with stock investment

Instead, you can keep the money in America by spending it at yard sales,
going to a baseball game, or spending it on
prostitutes, beer and wine (domestic ONLY), or tattoos, since those are
the only American businesses still operating in the US!

It is not entirely inaccurate....

[Hanover Fist]

I can only imagine if Sarah Palin had said something this stupid how she would have been criticized.

x8hMJVXt09E

[Morfin]

Well, if you count all the illegal aliens...

[Hanover Fist]

Ruh Roh, another Obama pick just had her confirmation hearing held up because her husband didn't pay business taxes for in some cases 16 years....Obamas presidency has been an awesome fucking disaster for the first few weeks and he's getting his ass kicked in congress.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/02/05/solis_senate_session_canceled.html?hpid=topnews

Solis Senate Session Postponed in Wake of Husband's Tax Lien Revelations

By Michael A. Fletcher
A Senate committee today abruptly canceled a session to consider President Obama's nomination of Rep. Hilda Solis to be labor secretary in the wake of a report saying that her husband yesterday paid about $6,400 to settle tax liens against his business -- liens that had been outstanding for as long as 16 years.

The report, by USA Today, came just before the Senate's Health Education Labor and Pensions Committee was slated to meet to consider Solis's nomination, which had been delayed by questions over her role on the board of the pro-labor organization American Rights at Work. A source said that committee members did not learn about the tax issue until today.

"Today's executive session was postponed to allow members additional time to review the documentation submitted in support of Representative Solis's nomination to serve in the important position of Labor Secretary," read a joint statement issued by Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.), the panel's chairman, and Mike Enzi (Wyoming), the committee's ranking Republican. "There are no holds on her nomination and members on both sides of the aisle remain committed to giving her nomination the fair and thorough consideration that she deserves. We will continue to work together to move this nomination forward as soon as possible."

No new date has been set for the hearing. The disclosure about Solis's husband comes after tax problems caused trouble for three of Obama's top appointees, leading two of them -- HHS-nominee Tom Daschle and Nancy Killefer, who was to be chief performance officer -- to withdraw.

[Hanover Fist]

Ok forget what I said yesterday about Gibbs being bad because he had to cover for the White House, this guy is just a plain terrible press secretary and he has been getting absolutely obliterated in EVERY single briefing. These aren't even FOX guys killing him, this is basically every network destroying him.
I almost feel sorry for how poorly prepared he is to deal with this, it's almost painful to watch.

D-4qEz1vea0

[Hanover Fist]

Anyone who thinks that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi aren't the 2 dumbest fuckers in Congress clearly is in denial.
Listen to this fucker try to explain how paying taxes is voluntary....WHAT?!??
And I don't mean that in a way where it would be best that a Republican take over, but hell they have much better choices for the Dems even. Shit, as much as I don't like Dianne Feinstein, she is light years smarter than Reid.
Of course if the senior Democrat in Congress feels this way then maybe it is why everyone that Obama picked for his cabinet seems to have voluntarily decided not to pay taxes.
R7mRSI8yWwg

[Rover]

Anyone who thinks that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi aren't the 2 dumbest fuckers in Congress clearly is in denial.
Listen to this fucker try to explain how paying taxes is voluntary....WHAT?!??See, I told you so. I fucking told you so. I'm going to refile my anti-income tax lawsuits.

[Morfin]

That clip is amazing. It just goes to show you how these people will continue to state something even if it is wrong. The sky is not blue. The sky is not blue. The sky is not blue. The sky is not blue.

What I don't understand is why he doesn't have a real answer. This is how I would answer that question. Yes, paying taxes is voluntary. It is voluntary because the person can leave the country whenever he wants; he is not forced to live here.

However, if you live here, there are dues to be paid to be part of American society, and those dues are paid in the form of taxes. And while you may not like your taxes to go to welfare, they go to your defense, the highways you travel on everyday, your schools, enforcing the laws. So, if you want to be part of American society, you have to pay your share and that is the tax you owed, based on what your elected representative voted as to your reasonable share.

Now, Harry, would that have been so hard?

[Whiffleball]

While calling it "voluntary" is incorrect because it implies that paying taxes is optional, the U.S. tax system is one of the least coercive because it carries with it choice -- you can choose to be as involved in your own compliance as you wish, and ultimately you have the choice to either pay your taxes or deal with the consequences. Guess what -- the U.S. does not deduct the money without asking the people what they owe or what exemptions they may be entitled to. I'd like to see the Randroids whining about how unfair life is under one of those "tyrannies".

Harry Reid is an idiot for using the term "voluntary" to describe what is essentially a non-optional system, he's a damn slight better than those idiots out there who think a truly voluntary system would result in anything other than government bankruptcy and a total lack of public services.

[Grieves]

Harry Reid is an idiot for using the term "voluntary" to describe what is essentially a non-optional system, he's a damn slight better than those idiots out there who think a truly voluntary system would result in anything other than government bankruptcy and a total lack of public services.The government is already bankrupt. One day the lenders may realize it.

[kid_vidrio]

You most certainly do make that decision.
It is absolutely voluntary.
No one forces you to drive the speed limit either.
The decision is yours. There is no governor on your car preventing it from going over the legal limit.
Involuntary actions like breathing or heartbeat - they occur whether you think about them or not.
Voluntary actions like spanking your monkey or getting a tattoo are deliberate and may have consequences, but the choice is yours. In addition, if you make less than what requires that you pay taxes, you do not have to file. Why? Because filing taxes is voluntary.
Ultimately it is semantic. I think most reasonable people get it.
I'm not a Harry Reid fan but the guy conducting that interview is not just a tool, he is teh whole department.

[Hanover Fist]

Kind of a hilarious yet sad poll conducted by Rasmussen:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics2/67_say_they_could_do_a_better_job_on_the_economy_t han_congress

67% Say They Could Do A Better Job On The Economy Than Congress
Wednesday, February 11, 2009

When it comes to the nation’s economic issues, 67% of U.S. voters have more confidence in their own judgment than they do in the average member of Congress.

Nineteen percent (19%) trust members of Congress more, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Fourteen percent (14%) aren’t sure.

Republicans and unaffiliated voters by double digits have more confidence in themselves than Democrats do, but even a majority of the party that controls Congress trust themselves more than the average legislator.

Forty-four percent (44%) voters also think a group of people selected at random from the phone book would do a better job addressing the nation’s problems than the current Congress, but 37% disagree. Twenty percent (20%) are undecided.

The new Congress fares worse on this question that the previous Congress. Last October, just 33% said a randomly selected group of Americans would do a better job than the Congress then in session.

Although an $800-billion-plus economic rescue plan has now passed both the House and Senate, the overwhelming majority of voters are not confident that Congress knows what it’s doing with regards to the economy. Fifty-eight percent (58%) agree, too, that “no matter how bad things are, Congress can always find a way to make them worse.”

The Senate and House versions of the stimulus plan will now be the subject of a joint conference to work out a package that both chambers can agree on.

Seventy-four percent (74%) of male voters have more confidence in themselves than the average member of Congress. Sixty-one percent (61%) of female voters feel that way.

Seventy-four percent (74%) of GOP voters, 73% of those not affiliated with either party and 58% of Democrats say they know better.

Whites and investors are more confident of their economic know-how compared to the average congressman than are African-Americans and non-investors.

Since they no longer control either the Senate or the House, it’s no surprise that a majority of Republicans (51%) say a group of people picked at random from the phone book would do a better job than the current Congress. But even more unaffiliated voters (56%) agree.

Democrats take the opposite view--49% of those in Nancy Pelosi’s party say Congress today is better than a random group from the phone book. Just 28% disagree.

Fifty-four percent (54%) of voters say Congress is doing a poor job these days.

While Congress grows the country’s budget deficit by historic amounts in an effort to help the economy, the majority of Americans don’t even believe most legislators pay all the taxes they owe.

[Hanover Fist]

For those who wondered what the 25 DVD's that Obama gave to Gordon Brown on his visit a few weeks ago:

* Citizen Kane
* The Godfather
* Casablanca
* Raging Bull
* Singin' in the Rain
* Gone with the Wind
* Lawrence of Arabia
* Schindler’s List
* Vertigo
* The Wizard of Oz
* City Lights
* The Searchers
* Star Wars: Episode IV
* Psycho
* 2001: A Space Odyssey
* Sunset Boulevard
* The Graduate
* The General
* On the Waterfront
* It's a Wonderful Life
* Chinatown
* Some Like It Hot
* The Grapes of Wrath
* ET: The Extra-Terrestrial
* To Kill a Mockingbird


Clearly nothing on that list that would have been available to Brown in England.
Total cost on Amazon $418.26 , Obama truly the epic statesman, especially when put up against the gift that Brown gave Obama.
Brown gave Obama an ornamental pen holder made from the timbers of the Victorian ship HMS Gannet, which was used in anti-slavery patrols alongside its sister ship the HMS Resolute. The desk currently used by Obama in the White House Oval office is built from the timbers of the HMS Resolute and is called the "Resolute desk."

[Das Kahlua]

He's the smartest president EVAAA!!!

I'm just surprised he didn't give Brown the anniversary collector's addition complete Roots series.

[Rover]

The biggest unanswered question about these DVDs is whether they were region 1 NTSC or region 2 PAL. That's what I want to know. You would think the press could get that kind of answer from the most transparent administration in history.

[Hanover Fist]

The biggest unanswered question about these DVDs is whether they were region 1 NTSC or region 2 PAL. That's what I want to know. You would think the press could get that kind of answer from the most transparent administration in history.

Actually it did mention that, they were in fact the wrong format for the region. Brown will have to view them with a portable DVD player, it was also mentioned that he had stated in an interview once that he didn't watch movies.

[Rover]

Perfect. Unwatchable DVDs for a guy who doesn't watch movies. Bush gave gifts like private tours of Graceland and Obama gives shit I wouldn't want in my Christmas stocking. It's absolutely embarassing. Basic diplomacy for millennia has been gift giving. They must have coverned that in Obama's Presidency 101 class.

The best explanation I've heard is that Michelle blames the UK for European exploitation of Africa.

[Hanover Fist]

He's the smartest president EVAAA!!!

I'm just surprised he didn't give Brown the anniversary collector's addition complete Roots series.

I was thinking a copy of Zulu dawn would be better to remind him what happens to Brits that fuck with the black man.

[Das Kahlua]

Perfect. Unwatchable DVDs for a guy who doesn't watch movies. Bush gave gifts like private tours of Graceland and Obama gives shit I wouldn't want in my Christmas stocking. It's absolutely embarassing. Basic diplomacy for millennia has been gift giving. They must have coverned that in Obama's Presidency 101 class.

The best explanation I've heard is that Michelle blames the UK for European exploitation of Africa.

I'm glad that Obama is going to fix our reputation in the world community.

What's next, is he going to re-gift Brown's present when he visits Russia or China?

[Hanover Fist]

Just found an update to the Obama gift to Brown:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mandrake/5011941/Gordon-Brown-is-frustrated-by-Psycho-in-No-10.html

Gordon Brown is frustrated by 'Psycho' in No 10

While not exactly a film buff, Gordon Brown was touched when Barack Obama gave him a set of 25 classic American movies – including Psycho, starring Anthony Perkins on his recent visit to Washington.

Alas, when the PM settled down to begin watching them the other night, he found there was a problem.

The films only worked in DVD players made in North America and the words "wrong region" came up on his screen. Although he mournfully had to put the popcorn away, he is unlikely to jeopardise the special relationship – or "special partnership", as we are now supposed to call it – by registering a complaint.

A Downing Street spokesman said he was "confident" that any gift Obama gave Brown would have been "well thought through," but referred me to the White House for assistance on the "technical aspects".

A White House spokesman sniggered when I put the story to him and he was still looking into the matter when my deadline came last night.

By the way, when Obama's unlikely gift was disclosed, a reader emailed me to ask if Clueless was among the films. Funnily enough, it was not.

Brown, on the other hand, presented a rather more thoughtful gift to the American President in the form of a penholder carved from the timbers of an anti-slavery ship. The sister ship, in fact, of the one that was broken up and turned into the desk in the Oval Office.

[Hanover Fist]

It appears the NYT decides what news you need to know. I guess some stories you just can't put a good enough spin on and just have to kill.

http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/03/30/top_stories/doc49d0a73c7f98e547489394.txt

'New York Times' Spiked Obama Donor Story
Congressional Testimony: ‘Game-Changer’ Article Would Have Connected Campaign With ACORN

A lawyer involved with legal action against Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) told a House Judiciary subcommittee on March 19 The New York Times had killed a story in October that would have shown a close link between ACORN, Project Vote and the Obama campaign because it would have been a “a game changer.”

Heather Heidelbaugh, who represented the Pennsylvania Republican State Committee in the lawsuit against the group, recounted for the committee what she had been told by a former ACORN worker who had worked in the group’s Washington, D.C. office. The former worker, Anita Moncrief, told Ms. Heidelbaugh last October, during the state committee’s litigation against ACORN, she had been a “confidential informant for several months to The New York Times reporter, Stephanie Strom.”

Ms. Moncrief had been providing Ms. Strom with information about ACORN’s election activities. Ms. Strom had written several stories based on information Ms. Moncrief had given her.

During her testimony, Ms. Heidelbaugh said Ms. Moncrief had told her The New York Times articles stopped when she revealed that the Obama presidential campaign had sent its maxed-out donor list to ACORN’s Washington, D.C. office.

Ms. Moncrief told Ms. Heidelbaugh the campaign had asked her and her boss to “reach out to the maxed-out donors and solicit donations from them for Get Out the Vote efforts to be run by ACORN.”

Ms. Heidelbaugh then told the congressional panel:

“Upon learning this information and receiving the list of donors from the Obama campaign, Ms. Strom reported to Ms. Moncrief that her editors at The New York Times wanted her to kill the story because, and I quote, “it was a game changer.”’

Ms. Moncrief made her first overture to Ms. Heidelbaugh after The New York Times allegedly spiked the story — on Oct. 21, 2008. Last fall, she testified under oath about what she had learned about ACORN from her years in its Washington, D.C. office. Although she was present at the congressional hearing, she did not testify.

U.S. Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wisc., the ranking Republican on the committee, said the interactions between the Obama campaign and ACORN, as described by Ms. Moncrief, and attested to before the committee by Ms. Heidelbaugh, could possibly violate federal election law, and “ACORN has a pattern of getting in trouble for violating federal election laws.”

He also voiced criticism of The New York Times.

“If true, The New York Times is showing once again that it is a not an impartial observer of the political scene,” he said. “If they want to be a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party, they should put Barack Obama approves of this in their newspaper.”

Academicians and journalism experts expressed similar criticism of the Times.

“The New York Times keeps going over the line in every single campaign and last year was the worst, easily,” said Mal Kline of the American Journalism Center. “They would ignore real questions worth examining about Obama, the questions about Bill Ayers or about how he got his house. Then on the other side they would try to manufacture scandals.”

Mr. Kline mentioned Gov. Sarah Palin was cleared by investigators of improperly firing an Alaska State Trooper, but went unnoticed by The Times.

“How many stories about this were in The New York Times,” he asked.

“If this is true, it would not surprise me at all. The New York Times is a liberal newspaper. It is dedicated to furthering the Democratic Party,” said Dr. Paul Kengor, professor of Political Science at Grove City College. “People think The New York Times is an objective news source and it is not. It would not surprise me that if they had a news story that would have swayed the election into McCain’s favor they would not have used it.”

ACORN has issued statements claiming that Ms. Moncrief is merely a disgruntled former worker.

“None of this wild and varied list of charges has any credibility and we’re not going to spend our time on it,” said Kevin Whelan, ACORN deputy political director in a statement issued last week.

Stephanie Strom was contacted for a comment, and The New York Times’ Senior Vice President for Corporate Communications Catherine Mathis replied with an e-mail in her place.

Ms. Mathis wrote, “In response to your questions to our reporter, Stephanie Strom, we do not discuss our news gathering and won’t comment except to say that political considerations played no role in our decisions about how to cover this story or any other story about President Obama.”

[kid_vidrio]

Obama gave teh Queen an Ipod.
I think he's taking this 'you tube' presidency thing a little serious.
In fact, I think he takes himself a little more seriously than he should.
I think he thinks it's his 'destiny' or somethign equally as melodramatic.
His fall will not be pretty.
Not pretty at all.

[Hanover Fist]

So is anyone else besides me appalled at what Michelle Obama wore when she met the queen?

http://i41.tinypic.com/2ywyi5y.jpg


And in other news, Sarkozy's wife is smoking hot.

http://i40.tinypic.com/1427w3o.jpg

[redsox39]

It appears the NYT decides what news you need to know. I guess some stories you just can't put a good enough spin on and just have to kill.

http://www.thebulletin.us/articles/2009/03/30/top_stories/doc49d0a73c7f98e547489394.txt

'New York Times' Spiked Obama Donor Story
Congressional Testimony: ‘Game-Changer’ Article Would Have Connected Campaign With ACORN


This cannot be true, the GorillaMask Poll I made said that the Media is pretty balanced, except for Faux News being a mouth piece for the right.

The NYT is God, how dare they question this pillar of Journalism integrity!

[kid_vidrio]

Does anyone really believe what they see, hear or read from any news source these days?

[redsox39]

Does anyone really believe what they see, hear or read from any news source these days?

Not for a while, but apparently someone does. A lot of someones!

[Hanover Fist]

Does anyone really believe what they see, hear or read from any news source these days?

You realize that they have the chick from the NYT's telephone recordings basically doing what the article claims right? That and the fact that the whistle blower testified under oath before Congress. And that a prominent Democrat congressman is calling for a full investigation of ACORN.

[Hanover Fist]

A grand jury has convened in Raleigh, NC. to open an investigation into John Edwards paying his babymamma off with his presidential campaign funds...developing.

It kind of makes me laugh at the people who donated to his campaign now. You bought pampers for his illegitimate kid. Hopefully he ends up going to jail.

[kid_vidrio]

You realize that they have the chick from the NYT's telephone recordings basically doing what the article claims right? That and the fact that the whistle blower testified under oath before Congress. And that a prominent Democrat congressman is calling for a full investigation of ACORN.
Dude, compared to yellow cake/iraq, this is laughable. Laughable! Also, it's entirely circumstantial insofar as BO having done anything immoral, let alone illegal (at this point.)
So what's your point exactly? The press sucks? ONly the NYT sucks? BO is a bad bad man? I just don't get the hoopla.

[kid_vidrio]

A grand jury has convened in Raleigh, NC. to open an investigation into John Edwards paying his babymamma off with his presidential campaign funds...developing.

It kind of makes me laugh at the people who donated to his campaign now. You bought pampers for his illegitimate kid. Hopefully he ends up going to jail.
Never trusted this hair combing bitch at all.
And his style of law and the $$ he made from it? Cocksucker.
He had some decent ideas. He could have been a contender!
But fate, his libido, and his lack of efficacy had other plans.
Enjoy the ride, Johnny boy. Enjoy the ride...

[Hanover Fist]

Hey what's the Austrian term for "wheeling and dealing"?