Terminator: SALVATION

[smith42687]

Because this is the one of the few watchable action movies coming out over the next 365 days.


Christian Bale will bitch you out if you don't go see this movie.

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810025211/trailer

[AlanSmithee]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....McG!!!!?????

[Mr. Brown]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....McG!!!!?????
Agreed this guy is a freaking music video director and did the Charlie's Angels movies. We are Marshall was ok, but no serious action movie yet. I'll give him a chance but he's on a fine line. I want some depth to the story not just bullshit.

[bixby]

Jonah Nolan (The Dark Knight) is lead writer for this movie, though. Shawn Ryan (creator of The Shield) also did a rewrite, too.

I'm holding on to hope that it will be good.

[Papelgod]

I have a feeling it will be ass, due to the fact that McG is directing, and it's getting a PG-13 rating... but I'll see anything Christian Bale is in. He never phones anything in.

[ShitBreak]

They never said it was PG-13.

[Papelgod]

I could have sworn I read that somewhere...

[Le Goat]

GOD DAMN IT WHO HAS THE VID OF THE HUNGARIAN ATHELETE THAT SNAPPED HIS ELBOW TODAY?!?!?!

[Grieves]

I can only imagine the mound of cocaine McG and Bale were doing the night Bale signed on to do this shit.

[Night Hawk]

GOD DAMN IT WHO HAS THE VID OF THE HUNGARIAN ATHELETE THAT SNAPPED HIS ELBOW TODAY?!?!?!

j5er6i5-CKQ

[zero]

I can only imagine the mound of cocaine McG and Bale were doing the night Bale signed on to do this shit.
probably the same amount when he decided to do newsies

[MDiver01]

I could have sworn I read that somewhere...
They're not really shooting for a PG-13 rating.

[Mulder]

I don't know I don't see the point of making a fourth one! Maybe with Bale on the crew it would have a different impact.

[MDiver01]

because it shows how humanity makes a come back. I'd like to see what happens when Connor grows up.

[zero]

it is an interesting concept and bale does seem to have knack for reviving genres

[Philip Lombard]

sorry everyone, but the batman franchise revival has way more to do with Nolan than it does Bale

Nolan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> McG

[Neohesh]

cant wait

[bixby]

HOLY SHIT!

http://latinoreview.com/images/user/balearnoldMTX_450x350.jpg

http://latinoreview.com/news/the-dark-knight-meets-mr-freeze-5357

I should make it clear, i have varous contacts in WB and from what i've been told the fans are in for a treat. The premise of Arnie's involvement is to have a fully rendered digital face of Arnie replacing the recently cast Roland Kickinger (The Younger version of Arnie). It seems the Director Mc G will in no doubt try all he can to ensure the Governator has some sort of involvement and as a result Arnold was on set providing key ADR (Voice over) for the visual effects guys to reference during post production. You have to remember, Arnold's commitments are preventing his return to the movie business and this seems the best logical way to ensure his involvement.

[HAWK]

The entire movie?

This could turn real cheesy...real quick.

[MDiver01]

if it is not done right this CG could look real horrible and ruin the whole thing. I think it should just be left alone.

So does this mean we are going to hear Arnolds voice the whole movie for the Terminator?

[Le Goat]

if it is not done right this CG could look real horrible and ruin the whole thing. I think it should just be left alone.

So does this mean we are going to hear Arnolds voice the whole movie for the Terminator?

If I remember correctly, this takes place just before his model comes online. I'm thinking he'll make an appearance towards the end, ala the main baddy that comes of the end battle.

[bdjlo09]

hopefully T4 will be as good as T2

[Le Goat]

hopefully T4 will be as good as T2

stop fucking post whoring to get your 100 posts fuck stick. you'll never reach it

[Night Hawk]

If I remember correctly, this takes place just before his model comes online. I'm thinking he'll make an appearance towards the end, ala the main baddy that comes of the end battle.


You know what they should do? Fuck the CGI... Introduce his model.. without the skin... So you don't need his face. Just his voice.

[ShitBreak]

The face-CGI has been done prior, and you would never know it. Plus, it's just going to be a cameo of sorts, probably.

Hell, there was one whole scene in the new editions of Blade Runner that uses Harrison Ford's son's face.

[Le Goat]

Hell half of arnolds body/face was fuckin CGI in T3. It was cheezy but then again, it was a generic shooter. This one looks to be well shot and gritty. It might work if it follows what I said a few posts up.

[HAWK]

The face-CGI has been done prior, and you would never know it. Plus, it's just going to be a cameo of sorts, probably.

Hell, there was one whole scene in the new editions of Blade Runner that uses Harrison Ford's son's face.

Whaa??

Why would their even be a need to?

[teamusa]

Regardless, Bale will make this movie great. Hes exactly what a movie like this needs. As far as Arnie being in it? I think maybe for the next one or like goat said in the end of this one. Either way the Terminator franchise is somehting like the Star Wars franshise, it will always be needed.

[Night Hawk]

I still think it would be awesome to introduce Arnie's model at its basic stage before it was fitted with the skin.

[Mr. Brown]

OK no one has said this but why even have Bale? Connor is suppose to be in this 30s-40s during this time. Why not get his father, whom he would look like to play him:

http://nogoodforme.filmstills.org/images/michaelbiehn_terminator.jpg


http://img01.yeuxverts.net/_images_/img01.4/ons3rd.jp4m3e.19vxtw.png

and while your at get James Cameron or have fucking Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino work on it.

[Night Hawk]

OK no one has said this but why even have Bale? Connor is suppose to be in this 30s-40s during this time. Why not get his father, whom he would look like to play him:

http://nogoodforme.filmstills.org/images/michaelbiehn_terminator.jpg


http://img01.yeuxverts.net/_images_/img01.4/ons3rd.jp4m3e.19vxtw.png

and while your at get James Cameron or have fucking Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino work on it.


Because James Cameron is the same badass bale is?

[bixby]

Bale's 34, and I think Biehn's in his 50's now.

[Night Hawk]

Bale's 34, and I think Biehn's in his 50's now.


Meaning....?

[CaptainCockslap]

I have no expectations for this movie so hopefully it will surprise me... hopefully.

[bixby]

Meaning....?
Mr. Brown was suggesting (I think) that Biehn play the mid 30's John Connor. I was saying that Bale's already in his mid 30's, and Biehn's probably way too old now. Also, it would be stupid stunt casting to have him play both parts.

[Archetype]

and while your at get James Cameron or have fucking Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino work on it.

wut

[Philip Lombard]

new trailer will be on the bond movie

[Superhuman]

God damnit, I thought there was gonna be new info.

Fuck the guy who bumped the thread.

[Superhuman]

First unseen footage from the film. Get it before it's taken down.

http://www.dumbdrum.com/terminator-salvation-featurette-the-%20art-of-martin-laing/




I just got more optimistic.

[Ethix]

It doesn't seem to work for me. Thanks for the attempt though.

[Night Hawk]

great clip... sweet!

[Superhuman]

The shot with the Harvester gave me a hard-on.

[Superhuman]

It doesn't seem to work for me. Thanks for the attempt though.

Try opening in a different browser maybe.

It's working for others...

[STDSkillz]

This looks great, thanks for sharing.

[Ethix]

That's weird. The page opens and there is a big empty space where a video window would be, but nothing opens or plays. I even tried opening it with IE and Firefox. I'm probably missing some sort of codec or something.

[Pax Britannia]

Awesome. The Harvester Terminator looks a bit Transformery though.

[Le Goat]

Yeah I got a HUGE fear that this can go the Transformer route, but god damn does that 'Children of Men' feel make it look beautiful. Hopefully that 'Transformers' feel was just pre 'children' filter.

[phule]

excellent. ty.

[HAWK]

I'm getting a serious Matrix feel from that footage. It was said that the Terminator amd Matrix storylines were taken from the same idea.

[Le Goat]

Except I doubt Bale will be doing any superman bullshit

[Pax Britannia]

DECEPTICONS ATTACK!
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/Raptor08_2008/ts2small.jpg

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39045

[Le Goat]

I'd expect an advanced machine to look like that. I just hope they all have some wear and tear on them to give them an actual war-torn look.

[Kerjack]

I like to think that is a flame thrower attached to its knee.

[Pax Britannia]

The motorbike Terminators are the worst.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii85/Raptor08_2008/ts1small.jpg

Why God why?

[Kerjack]

Yeah, tires and rubble really don't go together.

[Le Goat]

I agree on the motorbike ones. Gay.

[The Batman]

I agree on the motorbike ones. Gay.

But don't you think it at least makes sense in terms of story or character?

[Pax Britannia]

The motorbike Terminators makes me think this movie will be PG-13.

[Kerjack]

And really if you are going to make a bike that wide you might as well just make a quad.

[Le Goat]

But don't you think it at least makes sense in terms of story or character?

WHy would it make sense? A story doesn't revolve around a bike (unless you're ET, Easy Rider or that gay Fast and Furious bike shit from a few years ago)

[ShitBreak]

The motorbike Terminators makes me think this movie will be PG-13.


It is PG-13.

But I have no problem with that. All worries about it being PG-13 were washed away when the Sarah Conner Chronicles actually kicked ass. That's basically a PG-13 show.

[The GWD]

But I like it when terminators browse through a list of 'possible responses' and settle on "Fuck you, asshole".

That's not very PG-13.

[Superhuman]

It is PG-13.
No it's not you fucktard.

The movie isn't even completed yet. How can the MPAA give it a rating?

McG himself said he doesn't know what the movie is gonna be rated and said he had no pressure from the studio to make a PG-13 movie.

Good job pulling facts out of your ass.

[Pax Britannia]

The fact that the guy directing this is Mayor McCheese doesnt fill me with confidence.

[The Batman]

WHy would it make sense? A story doesn't revolve around a bike (unless you're ET, Easy Rider or that gay Fast and Furious bike shit from a few years ago)

Because as machines they have to make sure they cover all bases with fast vehicles as well as strong ones. So to have something quick makes sense.

[ShitBreak]

No it's not you fucktard.

The movie isn't even completed yet. How can the MPAA give it a rating?

McG himself said he doesn't know what the movie is gonna be rated and said he had no pressure from the studio to make a PG-13 movie.

Good job pulling facts out of your ass.

Everyone and their mother knows it is going to be PG13. Stop acting like it won't be.

[The GWD]

The fact that the guy directing this is Mayor McCheese doesnt fill me with confidence.

It makes me salivate. I don't know if it's specifically because he's a good director or if it just makes me crave hamburgers.

[Superhuman]

Everyone and their mother knows it is going to be PG13. Stop acting like it won't be.
Wanna tell me what the California Mega Millions winning lottery numbers will be this week?

[Philip Lombard]

New trailer is still supposed to be on Quantum of Solace, no?

[Superhuman]

New trailer is still supposed to be on Quantum of Solace, no?
Indeed.


Love the Charlie av, btw.

[Superhuman]

Looks like they never got a trailer ready for Quantum of Solace as McG promised.

What a letdown. God fucking damnit.

[Le Goat]

Pwnt

[ShitBreak]

Looks like they never got a trailer ready for Quantum of Solace as McG promised.

What a letdown. God fucking damnit.

I thought the trailer was supposed to be with When the Earth Stood Still? Or is that Wolverine?

I get the two confused, since they are probably my two most looked forward to movies of next summer.

[Superhuman]

I thought the trailer was supposed to be with When the Earth Stood Still? Or is that Wolverine?

I get the two confused, since they are probably my two most looked forward to movies of next summer.
No, it was supposed to be attached to the Bond movie.

[arod2105]

The trailer was previous announced to come out with QOS, but I guess they are holding off on it. Hopefully by the end of the year we will have our first trailer.

[bixby]

http://www.moviehole.net/200816669-sounds-like-arnies-in-t4

There's a billion-and-one rumours out there when it comes to "Terminator Salvation" - is Sarah Connor in it? Does someone die? Has James Cameron been script-blocked? and most famously, is Schwarzenegger doing a cameo? Well, seems there might be truth to the last one.
Director McG talked to Total Film (http://www.totalfilm.com/features/arnie-will-appear-probably#content) who confirmed he is trying to "synthesise a human character with a CGI character and that may or may not have something to do with the T800".
The "Charlie's Angels" director says he's not happy with how "it" looks at the moment though.
“At the moment it’s not good enough,” he said. “And we’re running out of time.”
In addition, there's some good news - McG says that after the script spoiler (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36947) that was posted on Aint it Cool (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36947) spread like wildfire, producers decided to change the ending of the film.
“That is not the ending. John Connor is not the machine. We did discuss that idea, but that is not the ending, I can say that right now.”

[Superhuman]

That actually kinda makes sense.

This is from McG's most recent blog posting:

There's one sequence in particular where we're trying to achieve something that's never been done before. I don't want to talk about it because we haven't been successful yet...

[Philip Lombard]

McG is a failure.

[Orestes]

I'm actually hoping that this movie will save the series for me. Obviously the first is a classic. But both sequels were absolute garbage. Sure they were both eye candy but Arnold went from a ruthless killing machine to a hokey character trying to come up with a better catch phrase than "I'll be back". I can take clever little quips like that in silly movies but to me this series wasn't meant to be silly. Linda Hamilton's acting was absolutely atrocious which didn't help. This really upset me because I wanted to like the movie. Hell I even own it. But pure disappointment.

Anyway, excited about this prequel very much. Hate to sound like a Christian Bale fanboy but the guy has been gold in just about every role I've seen him in. Can't wait!

[Superhuman]

I'm actually hoping that this movie will save the series for me. Obviously the first is a classic. But both sequels were absolute garbage. Sure they were both eye candy but Arnold went from a ruthless killing machine to a hokey character trying to come up with a better catch phrase than "I'll be back". I can take clever little quips like that in silly movies but to me this series wasn't meant to be silly. Linda Hamilton's acting was absolutely atrocious which didn't help. This really upset me because I wanted to like the movie. Hell I even own it. But pure disappointment.

Anyway, excited about this prequel very much. Hate to sound like a Christian Bale fanboy but the guy has been gold in just about every role I've seen him in. Can't wait!
T2 sucked?

And Linda Hamilton was garbage?





Huh????????

[Orestes]

T2 sucked?

And Linda Hamilton was garbage?





Huh????????Yes. I stopped taking The Terminator series seriously when I heard the words "hasta lavista, baby" spoken by Arnold. it's hokey and lame and that's what the rest of it turned into.

I understand alot of people love the movie and I'm in the minority here. It's nothing more than eye candy to me.

[STDSkillz]

A very large minority.

[Archetype]

You're dead.

[Ethix]

Yes. I stopped taking The Terminator series seriously when I heard the words "hasta lavista, baby" spoken by Arnold. it's hokey and lame and that's what the rest of it turned into.



I always felt that the whole "hasta lavista, baby" thing made the whole terminator concept more interesting to me. It meant that they were capable of learning and understanding the way humans act. Without that, the concept of a terminator is pretty boring. Having rewatched all three movies recently, I still feel that T2 is the best.


The biggest thing about the Terminator series that bothers me is all the time travel paradox issues.

John sends Kyle back in time and he get Sarah pregnant with John....where did the original John come from?

Skynet sends a terminator back in time to kill Sarah Connor, but is destroyed and the remaining chip/arm are then used to create Skynet....where did the original Skynet come from?

Shit....now I've got a headache.

[Archetype]

That's not a paradox, it's an infinite loop.

[Ethix]

That's not a paradox, it's an infinite loop.


According to Wikipedia (yeah....I know), it's an ontological paradox.

[Archetype]

Time loop. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop_logic#Time_loop_logic)

[Ethix]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_paradox

[Orestes]

I always felt that the whole "hasta lavista, baby" thing made the whole terminator concept more interesting to me. It meant that they were capable of learning and understanding the way humans act. Without that, the concept of a terminator is pretty boring. Having rewatched all three movies recently, I still feel that T2 is the best. See the concept of the Terminator in the first one was what made it so cool to me. He was just a ruthless killing machine. I just really had high hopes for the movie. I wanted to like it. I was there opening night at the theater, I own the dvd. I gave it every chance in the world but other than the special effects I'm bored.

I used to also have issues with the paradox problems and found holes. But I realized that with every time travel movie ever made (that I have seen), there are issues. Plot holes. I'm going to be really impressed the day I see one that is perfect. Now I just kinda shrug them off as long as they aren't blatantly stupid. Your issue with John's dad is the same one I always had though.

[ShitBreak]

You are a fucking moron. Seriously. T2 is a Top 5 action movie of all time.

[bixby]

I always assumed that Reese being John's father was supposed to be a time paradox. John was going to be born either way, maybe Sarah Connor would've been knocked up by some other guy down the line and then given birth to John, but Reese time travel cock-blocked who ever that dude was. My definition of a time paradox may be a bit hazy, though.

I honestly think we're giving it more thought than Cameron ever did. He probably just thought it would be a cool twist, and it would reinstate that a big part of the Terminator movies is the love story between Sarah and Reese.

[Pax Britannia]

It's not a paradox, it's fate. Even though John sent his mother the message that the future is not set that was only to give her strength. The Terminator series has continuously showed us that the future is set and all you can do is delay it's progress.

[bixby]

The fate thing was established in T3, though, so it doesn't count. That was mostly, "we need to make another movie off this license. Oh, shit, they stopped judgement day...have Arnie tell them he was just fucking around and that the future can't be changed. There, we retconned that huge plot-point from the first two films, thus making T2 meaningless."

[Pax Britannia]

The fate thing was established in T3, though, so it doesn't count. That was mostly, "we need to make another movie off this license. Oh, shit, they stopped judgement day...have Arnie tell them he was just fucking around and that the future can't be changed. There, we retconned that huge plot-point from the first two films, thus making T2 meaningless."

Thats what most people who havent thought about this say. Yet from the first film and second we know that Kyle had to father John (T2 deleted scene shows John sends Kyle back knowing he's his father) and the original Terminator had to be destroyed and found in the Cyberdyne factory for Skynet to be developed.

[Le Goat]

fuck you welsh basta'd!

[bixby]

But deleted scenes don't count as canon.

See? This is why time travel is not a good plot device. If you're gonna use it, keep it simple.

[Pax Britannia]

But deleted scenes don't count as canon.

See? This is why time travel is not a good plot device. If you're gonna use it, keep it simple.

I guess it doesnt matter much to our enjoyment of the films anyway.

I do take anything Cameron has written as canon though.

[The Batman]

But deleted scenes don't count as canon.

See? This is why time travel is not a good plot device. If you're gonna use it, keep it simple.


I don't think you can make time travel simple. its too complex already. In fact, I can't think of any movie that made time travel simple.

[bixby]

Back To The Future was pretty straight to the point, if you ignore the fact that Marty's parents end up having a kid that looks just like a dude they met in High School.

[Orestes]

I don't think you can make time travel simple. its too complex already. In fact, I can't think of any movie that made time travel simple.Planet Of The Apes was pretty simple.

[The Batman]

Back To The Future was pretty straight to the point, if you ignore the fact that Marty's parents end up having a kid that looks just like a dude they met in High School.

But you failed to consider when he came back at the end of the movie that he would have absolutely no awareness of anything that has happened in his life because he lived an entirely different life. Not so simple.

[The Batman]

[quote=bixby;256772]I don't think you can make time travel simple. its too complex already. In fact, I can't think of any movie that made time travel simple.Planet Of The Apes was pretty simple.

The new one or the old one?

[Orestes]

The new one or the old one?The original. I try not to speak of the new one.

[bixby]

I still have no idea what happened at the end of Tim Burton's version. You'd need a flowchart and a ton of acid to make sense of that movie's ending.

[Orestes]

I still have no idea what happened at the end of Tim Burton's version. You'd need a flowchart and a ton of acid to make sense of that movie's ending.That movie was completely unnecessary. I'm usually pretty liberal with remakes or re-imaginations but this did not turn out well at all. Leave it to Tim Burton to screw up another classic. The best idea to come of that though was to leave Mark Wahlberg completely fucked in the end. He's probably my least favorite actor right now. Or among my least favorite anyway.

[The Batman]

I still have no idea what happened at the end of Tim Burton's version. You'd need a flowchart and a ton of acid to make sense of that movie's ending.That movie was completely unnecessary. I'm usually pretty liberal with remakes or re-imaginations but this did not turn out well at all. Leave it to Tim Burton to screw up another classic. The best idea to come of that though was to leave Mark Wahlberg completely fucked in the end. He's probably my least favorite actor right now. Or among my least favorite anyway.

What other classic did he screw up? He did a brilliant job on sleepy hollow which is sort of a remake and so is the musical, which is also a sort of remake.

[ShitBreak]

I'm guessing he probably means Charlie and the Chocolate Factory....in which he is a retard since it wasn't a remake.

[The Batman]

The new one or the old one?The original. I try not to speak of the new one.

i never saw the original, but my understanding is that all he did was go into the future, right?
Future only time travel can't be complicated because things just happen without you present. Its when they go back in time where everything gets fuzzy.

[The Batman]

I'm guessing he probably means Charlie and the Chocolate Factory....in which he is a retard since it wasn't a remake.

Yeah, and it was better than the original. A lot creepier in a fun family kind of way. lol

[Orestes]

What other classic did he screw up? He did a brilliant job on sleepy hollow which is sort of a remake and so is the musical, which is also a sort of remake.Willie Wonka. It was butchered.

[bixby]

If Charlie And The Chocolate Factory wasn't a remake then what was it? A re-adaptation of the book? A re-do? Burton can say those two movies weren't remakes all he wants, but he's wrong.

"Remakes? Good sir, I am above remakes, I am TIM BURTON. They're re-imaginings! Which is the same thing, but I'm calling it something else, so it's different!"

[Orestes]

I'm guessing he probably means Charlie and the Chocolate Factory....in which he is a retard since it wasn't a remake.Well I was pretty clear in saying re-imaginations as well. I know the intention was based more on the book, but the movie was just aweful.

[ShitBreak]

I'm guessing he probably means Charlie and the Chocolate Factory....in which he is a retard since it wasn't a remake.Well I was pretty clear in saying re-imaginations as well. I know the intention was based more on the book, but the movie was just aweful.


You think T2 wasn't good. So your opinion doesn't mean shit at this point.

[Orestes]

i never saw the original, but my understanding is that all he did was go into the future, right?
Future only time travel can't be complicated because things just happen without you present. Its when they go back in time where everything gets fuzzy.Exactly. You should really see the original. I'm a POTA fanatic though so maybe my opinion is skewed. But it's a top movie for me.

[bixby]

I thought Burton's Wonka movie was pretty terrible, as well. Depp's Wonka was really awful, which surprised me, since that seemed like a role he would absolutely own.

I really don't care that the author of the Wonka book hated the Gene Wilder movie, because that movie is superior in almost every way, to me. And that's not just nostalgia talking, it still holds up to this day.

RZ-uV72pQKI

Pure awesome.

[Orestes]

I thought Burton's Wonka movie was pretty terrible, as well. Depp's Wonka was really awful, which surprised me, since that seemed like a role he would absolutely own.

I really don't care that the author of the Wonka book hated the Gene Wilder movie, because that movie is superior in almost every way, to me. And that's not just nostalgia talking, it still holds up to this day.I don't really blame Depp for how bad it was. It was the writing. He's a great actor, and he should have been great in the role, but the character was written terribly.

I agree the original is unbelievable.

[OpiateKitty]

I thought Burton's Wonka movie was pretty terrible, as well. Depp's Wonka was really awful, which surprised me, since that seemed like a role he would absolutely own.

I really don't care that the author of the Wonka book hated the Gene Wilder movie, because that movie is superior in almost every way, to me. And that's not just nostalgia talking, it still holds up to this day.I don't really blame Depp for how bad it was. It was the writing. He's a great actor, and he should have been great in the role, but the character was written terribly.

I agree the original is unbelievable.


Well you know I blame Depp partially for the moving being terrible. Granted it's Tim Burton's movie...but Depp agreed to partaking in such a shitty rendition of what was an awesome original movie, nonetheless a great book. Don't get me wrong, I'm a BIG Depp fan..but ughh comeon. Moreso, those oompa loopas deserved to get drowned in the chocolate lake...terrible.

[Orestes]

Well you know I blame Depp partially for the moving being terrible. Granted it's Tim Burton's movie...but Depp agreed to partaking in such a shitty rendition of what was an awesome original movie, nonetheless a great book. Don't get me wrong, I'm a BIG Depp fan..but ughh comeon. Moreso, those oompa loopas deserved to get drowned in the chocolate lake...terrible.I agree that Depp has some responsibility for taking the part. But I also think that he did very well with the material he had to work with. His acting wasn't what was bad.

[Orestes]

The new one or the old one?The original. I try not to speak of the new one.

i never saw the original, but my understanding is that all he did was go into the future, right?
Future only time travel can't be complicated because things just happen without you present. Its when they go back in time where everything gets fuzzy.I was thinking about this more, you said you haven't seen the original so I won't ruin anything for you. But there are 5 movies all together (not including the Burton one). The original film is very basic but in the sequels they get into more of it and some of the same paradoxes occur like in Terminator. I agree going into the future is way more simple than going into the past.

One movie that really did well with going into the past was 12 Monkeys. I don't recall any plot holes as far as the time travelling goes. I'm sure they exist but I didn't notice any.

[HAWK]

You people complaining about John's father are missing the point. It was SUPPOSED to be that way. It wasn't a plot hole. It was deliberate.

[El Torpedo]

Explain?

[Ethix]

You people complaining about John's father are missing the point. It was SUPPOSED to be that way. It wasn't a plot hole. It was deliberate.


I never said it was a plot hole. I just said I didn't understand it.

[Celtickliq]

Flash Poster. Seems lame.

http://www.sonypictures.net/movies/terminatorsalvation/poster.html

[Superhuman]

It looks cool.

[Archetype]

Thats what most people who havent thought about this say. Yet from the first film and second we know that Kyle had to father John (T2 deleted scene shows John sends Kyle back knowing he's his father) and the original Terminator had to be destroyed and found in the Cyberdyne factory for Skynet to be developed.
The other option is parallel universes (many-world theory, for you quantum physicists), I'm fine with either or.

It isn't a paradox.

Flash Poster. Seems lame.

http://www.sonypictures.net/movies/terminatorsalvation/poster.html

Yeah, kinda lame, but I do like the idea of an animated poster.

[Fiend1138]

bw_hALL7zqg

[RedBEARD]

I'm so happy to see Megatron survived.

[Philip Lombard]

What the fuck is that doing in a Terminator movie?

[ShitBreak]

Probably works a lot like the Sentinels do in X-Men. Huge hunting machines.

[Archetype]

Oh Christ, boner.

[MDiver01]

Probably works a lot like the Sentinels do in X-Men. Huge hunting machines.
well I sure hope they're cannon fodder like the sentinels were other wise gay.

[Fiend1138]

well I sure hope they're cannon fodder like the sentinels were other wise gay.

quit being a drag...

[Superhuman]

bw_hALL7zqg
I just came.







What does Bale say at the beginning? Hard to understand him.



EDIT: Sounds like "the devil's hands have been busy".

[MDiver01]

Sounds like it.

So they got rid of the ending of John Conner being a terminator right?

[Superhuman]

Sounds like it.

So they got rid of the ending of John Conner being a terminator right?
Indeed.

[Le Goat]

_e4NdR2RAgs

[Syndicate]

Mc G will fuck this up. Mark that shit down.

[Le Goat]

He's not you and the movie isn't GMF



he'll do fine.

[MDiver01]

Indeed.
Thank God. That would have been the gayest of gay.

[Philip Lombard]

Motorcycle terminators and that Transformer looking thing are still ridiculous.

[Fiend1138]

meh... I'm holding judgment until I see it in proper context...

[bixby]

Here's the new trailer, with Japanese subtitles.

6eRkFNCDgKk

Bale looks like he's going to own the John Connor role, but I think we all expected that.

[Superhuman]

Here's the new trailer, with Japanese subtitles.

6eRkFNCDgKk

Bale looks like he's going to own the John Connor role, but I think we all expected that.
Looks great.


Bale is gonna kill it.

[Le Goat]

oh god damn it. someone find a new copy

[Superhuman]

oh god damn it. someone find a new copy
http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/12/09/must-watch-brand-new-terminator-salvation-trailer/

http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/terminator-salvation/japanese-trailer

[HAWK]

OH NO!! He's using the BATMAN voice again!!!!!1



/sarcasm

[bixby]

Here's the new trailer in HD (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/terminatorsalvation/hd/)

This one's edited a bit differently.

[ShitBreak]

fap fap fap fap fap fap

[bixby]

I just hope that Connor's wife screaming "JOHN!" isn't indicative of Connor dying like the rumored ending from a few months ago. This movie's looking really promising, and Bale looks like he's done great as Connor, but even a variation on that ending would just kill it for me.

[Le Goat]

he pwnd the 'you. will not. killlll. meeee' line

[bixby]

Yeah, that bit was great. Even if the rest of the cast sucks it up, Bale's always reliable.

[Superhuman]

Here's the new trailer in HD (http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/terminatorsalvation/hd/)

This one's edited a bit differently.
I just ruined a couple tissues.

[The Batman]

I just hope that Connor's wife screaming "JOHN!" isn't indicative of Connor dying


There are going to be 3 movies.....

[Philip Lombard]

Motorcycle terminators and that Transformer looking thing are still ridiculous.

[bixby]

There are going to be 3 movies.....
Have you read the rumored ending, though? It would've, uh..."addressed" that issue.

[Superhuman]

What's with the way Worthington says "what happened here?"

He sounds like Van Damme when he delivers that line.

[bixby]

I noticed that, too. He didn't sound like that when he said his other lines, so I don't think he's going to be doing a crappy Arnold impression in the movie itself. At least, I hope he's not.

Besides, different models of the Terminator should have different voices.

[Superhuman]

I noticed that, too. He didn't sound like that when he said his other lines, so I don't think he's going to be doing a crappy Arnold impression in the movie itself. At least, I hope he's not.

Besides, different models of the Terminator should have different voices.
It's something that can easily be fixed with a voice over.

[MDiver01]

I just had sex in my pants.

Is that chick in the Chronicles, the one that Derek is boning? Not the white one but the other in the preview.

[Archangel]

Stephanie Jacobsen? Yeah, I think that's her. Best DSLs east of the Urals.


Anyway, is that a H&K 416 Connor is packing there? Nice shootin' iron...

[ShitBreak]

I wonder how much of a tie-in the show will have with the movies? I know they are separate things, but little nods here or there would be awesome.

Like at some point, you see Cameron in the background of a scene...or you see Derek Reese fighting along the lines.

[bixby]

Is that chick in the Chronicles, the one that Derek is boning? Not the white one but the other in the preview.

I don't watch Sarah Connor Chronicles, but the other girl in the trailer is Moon Bloodgood.

[Superhuman]

Pic of Bale on set. Looks like some sort of T-800 assembly line:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/images/2008/12/10/tsd19432r_2.jpg

[bixby]

You know, for all the hate McG gets, everything I've seen from this movie has looked really promising. Bale looks like he's going to play the John Connor I've always wanted to see on-screen (the man on a mission, General Jesus S. Patton type of guy that they kept hinting at in the previous three), and the style of the movie looks amazing.

I haven't enjoyed any of McG's previous films, but this movie already looks a thousand times better than T3, and that was from a director who had directed movies I enjoyed. Jonathan Mostow (T3 director) seemed like a decent pick for the job, and he had directed Breakdown, an insanely underrated thriller that reminded me of Spielberg's Duel...and just look at how T3 turned out. It looked like a made for tv movie, it had poorly executed "comedic" bits, and it retconned the entire point of the first two films.

This movie, at the very least, looks like it's going to be a lot of fun, and it looks like Bale's really nailed the Connor role.

Lets just hope that that rumored ending really was just a bunch of bullshit. Now that shit is a deal breaker.

[Superhuman]

Set visit preview (http://chud.com/articles/articles/17364/1/SET-VISIT-PREVIEW-TERMINATOR-SALVATION/Page1.html)



Sounds promising.

[mongo]

i don't even like terminator movies, but i thought this promo poster was pretty bad ass.

http://i40.tinypic.com/awu5wp.jpg

[The GWD]

i don't even like terminator movies

What? ...WHAT?!

[vxicexv]

You gotta be a bit interested after seeing the trailers.

[Superhuman]

Taken from the set visit preview at Movieweb.

There's nudity. And we should see some fairly gory moments.

I think that ends the bullshit PG-13 nonsense.

[Superhuman]

Also, this thread (http://www.terminatorfiles.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2592) contains TONS of set visit previews, many of which have spoilers, but at the same time have great first-hand info.

[The GWD]

Taken from the set visit preview at Movieweb.



I think that ends the bullshit PG-13 nonsense.

You never know what ends up on the cutting room floor. Or how they cleverly hide the naughty bits. I'm hoping that "fairly gory" means balls out fucking mass death. But I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

[ShitBreak]

Yeah, I'm keeping my expectations hindered. Although it seems like each and every piece of info that comes out is good.

If it actually gets an R rating, I'd STILL be shocked. Like I've said before, I think the Sarah Conner TV show shows they could do a decent movie with PG-13 rating. But R would kick ass.

[patcooper]

well they already have shown the action figures for the movie.

http://bitcast-a.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/images/t4figures1.jpg


http://bitcast-a.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/images/t4figures2.jpg


http://bitcast-a.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/images/t4figures3.jpg

[Candide's Son]

Robin Hood: Prince of THieves was rated 'R' too, and they had action figures...so here's hoping.


edit: baddass action figures too, I had them, GD I loved those things.

[Jericho]

That wasn't rated R

[Candide's Son]

That wasn't rated R

well fuck me, so it isn't. Ive been operating under the wrong assumption since kindergarten.

[highone]

As cool as the FX look I'm still extremely wary of McG's involvement.

[Philip Lombard]

As you should be.

[cdean]

Trailer looks crap.

[Le Goat]

gtfo

[Rumpleforeskin]

I think it looks alright, even with McG's involvment. I mean it can't be worse than T3, right? Right?

[Superhuman]

As cool as the FX look I'm still extremely wary of McG's involvement.
Did you read ANY of the set visit previews in this thread (http://www.terminatorfiles.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=2592)?


Even the biggest of McG doubters were turned into believers.



I've been saying since even before production began that I have faith in McG. Guy gets a bad rap for no reason. Everyone needs to be given a chance.

[Fiend1138]

Danny Elfman's doing the score

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/39715

I think I just got a semi...

[Le Goat]

if he's the one that did the the original reveal trailer music, I dug it and like it. I know it's just the same but the unvailing of the T-music gave me wood

[arod2105]

We can't really judge the movie until we see it. Going off trailers does nothing. I think from what we have seen in the trailers, it looks pretty good.

[ripitkyle77]

it looks OK...the 2nd one is the best still.

[doubleocrow]

john connor shouldn't have a fuckin lisp.

[Archangel]

Wow, some quality fucking contributions by our n00bs here.

Go get your fucking 100 posts in Running Threads, will you?

[Pax Britannia]

john connor shouldn't have a fuckin lisp.

Winston Churchill had a lisp for much of his life and though his elocution improved in later life he never really solved the problem. So I think it's safe to say great leaders dont have to have perfect diction.

[Celtickliq]

john connor shouldn't have a fuckin lisp.


They turned the Terminator franchise into Transformers and you are worried about a lisp?

[doubleocrow]

They turned the Terminator franchise into Transformers and you are worried about a lisp?

Actually there are some fucked rumors about what might happen at the end of this movie for a supposed "surprise twist." i won't write it here, but if you care to know you can check it -

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2008/06/terminator_4_is_somehow_even_worse_than_we_thought .php

[HAWK]

I thought this had been disproved...

[Pax Britannia]

It has. By the Director.

[Celtickliq]

Actually there are some fucked rumors about what might happen at the end of this movie for a supposed "surprise twist." i won't write it here, but if you care to know you can check it -

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2008/06/terminator_4_is_somehow_even_worse_than_we_thought .php


What does my Transformers comment have to do with the rumored ending?

[doubleocrow]

What does my Transformers comment have to do with the rumored ending?

If that rumor had been true, it could have been much worse than Transformers.

[Celtickliq]

If that rumor had been true, it could have been much worse than Transformers.

There was nothing wrong with Transformers.

[canto iv]

I am so reticent to even give this film a chance. The only reason I would consider it is because of Christian Bale, and that's exactly why they brought him on board.

[doubleocrow]

There was nothing wrong with Transformers.

Not to turn this into a Transformers forum, but I could have done without the Iraq storyline and would have liked to learn more about the Deceptacons.

[Superhuman]

Actually there are some fucked rumors about what might happen at the end of this movie for a supposed "surprise twist." i won't write it here, but if you care to know you can check it -

http://www.toplessrobot.com/2008/06/terminator_4_is_somehow_even_worse_than_we_thought .php
Nice job posting an article from June 4 you fucktard.

Your mother should've swallowed you.

[Superhuman]

Schwarzenegger and Hamilton are all but confirmed to be in it as reported by many sources who went to the NY and LA 20 minute screenings 2 weeks ago. Here's a link to one. (http://www.thearnoldfans.com/news/1397.htm)

[Pax Britannia]

More stuff on T4 including some nice concept art.
http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2009/01/terminator-dire.html

[Superhuman]

Bale going nuts the set because the DP Shane Hurlbut walked onto the set and ruined a scene.

Good shit!

I guess all those times McG said Bale is really intense during filming wasn't bullshit.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/02/bale-went-ballistic/

Direct audio link (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/020209_christianbale.mp3)

[Pax Britannia]

I never thought i'd say this but Bale sounds like a fucking douche in that clip. I know the guy fucked up but for Christ sake do we need all that bitching.

[doubleocrow]

I had a feeling Bale was a douche. He's been in the business since "Empire of the Sun." I mean understand his frustration and shit, but he took his rant a little too far.

[Pax Britannia]

It's not like the guy walked in and knocked over the test tube of cancer-cure Bale was crafting....or was it?

[doubleocrow]

don't you know that movie making is MAGIC?!

[Pax Britannia]

It would have been more awesome if he did that rant in his Batman voice and ended it with: "Are you fucking retarded? I'm the God damn Batman!"

[Superhuman]

Cmon. None of you have ever went off on someone and taken it too far for too long?

Guy was probably having a bad day and was pissed that the DP ruined what he thought was 2 good takes by fucking around on the set.


At least it shows he's into it and cares about the outcome of the scenes.

[Pax Britannia]

I'm not gonna tear down my Batman posters over this. It just makes me think a little less of him thats all.

[doubleocrow]

I've been on plenty of sets before and I'd have to say it really depends on the scene. If the DP is walking around, chances are it's not that intensive of a scene. I mean regardless you don't disrupt a scene, I get that, but on the flip side, you don't unleash like that either. Bale must have been having a pretty bad fucking day OR, he's one of those actors who won't tolerate eye-contact. If it's the latter, fuck that guy.

[Superhuman]

Awesome new T-600 pic:

http://cdn1.gamepro.com/article_img/gamepro/208734-2.jpg?rand=38ACF6CA-971D-5A36-50A168559EE88B79

[Pax Britannia]

First Remix is in, and it's pretty good
YTihsJQHt48

[Archangel]

Welshmen...

[Pax Britannia]

We are a passionate people. Thats why we make such good actors.

[Archangel]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that shit like this happens on any movie set; this just happened to leak out. Just like politics and sausage, you don't really want to know how movies really get made.

Look at Kinski:

75ADI9p2wHY

Brilliant how Herzog says he didn't want to get involved because for Kinski, this was a "mild tantrum".

[Pax Britannia]

The next time the temp doesnt put enough sugar in my tea i'm going to kick off like Bale did.

"WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? TWO SUGARS YOU FUCKING MORON"

[Archangel]

One difference.


You're not a world famous Hollywood actor.

[Pax Britannia]

Yet....

[BIG PIZZLE]

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/batman-goes-bale-istic-with-profane-tirade-on-crew/18387?nc

Here's the clip. He loses it pretty good.
http://kroq-data.com/wah/wah/audio/?a=1117



LOS ANGELES - Dark Knight indeed.

Christian Bale (http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/christian-bale/237) can be heard in newly surfaced audio delivering a long, profanity-laced verbal thrashing to a cinematographer and anyone who tried to calm him down on the set of the upcoming "Terminator Salvation."
The three-minute clip was posted Monday on the Web site TMZ.com (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/ap/ap_en_ce/storytext/people_christian_bale/30823362/SIG=10gabgkd8/*http://TMZ.com).

In it, the actor who portrayed Batman in "The Dark Knight" rails against cinematographer Shane Hurlbut for apparently walking behind co-star Bryce Dallas Howard (http://omg.yahoo.com/celebs/bryce-dallas-howard/766) and through Bale's line of sight, considered a film-set foul.

"If you do it one more time I ain't walking on this set if you're still hired!" Bale howls in one of the few publishable moments from the clip.

Later, he screams: "Do you want me to go and trash your lights? Do you want me to go and trash them? ... Then why are you trashing my scene?"
The incident took place last July on the set at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, days before Bale would face assault allegations from his mother and sister in London. Charges were never filed because his family did not want to press the matter and because prosecutors said there was a lack of sufficient evidence.

Bale's is the only voice that is audible on the tape, though he's clearly responding to Hurlbut, the film's director McG, and others trying to persuade him to relax.

"Let's not take a (expletive) minute! Let's go again!" he yells at one point.
A phone message left early Tuesday with a publicist for the 35-year-old actor wasn't immediately returned.

[redsox39]

He sure like to say "fuck" a lot. And he said the guy was nice first, so it cancels out, right?

[Hanover Fist]

He was probably just seeing Ivan walking through the set again.

(The role I still think that might have been his best acting role ever)

[Archangel]

This has been posted in the Terminator: Salvation thread quite a while ago.

Merginated.

[BIG PIZZLE]

This was a poor merge. You should have done it the other way around. You're a shitty mod.

[Archangel]

I should have merged the entire Terminator thread into your thread about Bale's rant?

Dude, I'm sorry to tell you this, but that kind of logic only makes sense in the Middle East.

[smahoo]

Here's his rant at the director of photography of the movie Terminator Salvation.

Listen here (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/020209_christianbale.mp3)

EDIT: Delete...didn't see it in the other thread

[Morfin]

It must be fucking hard for a perfect fucking person to have to fucking put up with fucking imperfect fucking amateurs.

[Pax Britannia]

This has been posted 3 times now.

[Archangel]

God fucking damnit, algain?

[Pax Britannia]

Arch stop merging this stuff, we now have the same link posted three times in this thread. Get rid of the pizz and smahoo stuff.

[Jack Bauer]

i dont see what he did wrong, the guy was a douche for walking into the scene

[Archangel]

Arch stop merging this stuff, we now have the same link posted three times in this thread. Get rid of the pizz and smahoo stuff.

They shall remain forever as monuments to their idiocy. Like the pyramids, only stupid.



i'll delete the inevitable next ones though

[ShitBreak]

Bale freaked the fuck out, but it sounds like the DP had done it before. You don't walk around, especially in an actor's sight line. That's just fucking stupid.

[TylerDurden]

everyone's acting like this is a huge deal. i don't see that it is. that bitch should have stayed out of the way. with a movie like this, bale knows he has many millions and the fate of a production resting on him to deliver. he gets in the zone, starts delivering a great take, only to have it fouled by someone walking across the set. guy apologizes, bale is frustrated but okay, and they reset. bale delivers another great scene, only to again have it fucked up by the same fucking guy for the same fucking reason.

[BIG PIZZLE]

God fucking damnit, algain?

That's what happens when you mod like a retard.

[Rumpleforeskin]

That was one of the coolest things I've ever heard. "Stop fuckin' fucking around, man, for fuck's sake! Sheesh."

Who cares if Bale acted like an asshole. The whole project is built around him giving the goods. His name is on the line. I highly doubt anybody is going to go see the movie because of Shane Dipshit the DP.

[freegood]

Techno remix
YTihsJQHt48

[jax]

Bale might of went off a bit but I think we have all had those moments. Plus he is trying to do a scene, regardless how action packed and someone keeps walking in the background in your line of sight, I can see that being annoying.

[BIG PIZZLE]

He appologizes on kroq.

http://kroq-data.com/wah/wah/audio/defaultkbsounds.aspx?a=1129&c=4&k=

[Fazo]

that techno mix makes this whole ordeal so worth it

[Thewellz]

I think the role of John Connor just brings out a whiny bitch in everyone. The last two sucked on screen and Christian Bale is fucking it up on set.

[RedBEARD]

I think the role of John Connor just brings out a whiny bitch in everyone. The last two sucked on screen and Christian Bale is fucking it up on set.He's probably the only chance this thing has at not sucking more wienie than your Mother did in high school.

Everyone knows this guy is an intense actor - or at least you should know if you've seen most of his recent work. Personally, I'd sooner have a guy who's passionate about what he's doing than not. If he has to go off on some Hollywood douche every now and then to keep his fire lit, so be it.

[Superhuman]

Linda Hamilton and Robert Patrick will be in the movie.

http://movieblog.ugo.com/index.php/movieblog/more/mcg_speaks_at_new_york_comic_con/

The character of Sarah Conner is very important to Terminator Salvation. He all but said that, in some way, Linda Hamilton will somehow, somewhere be in the movie. Which is actually part of a larger point. Much of what sounds so awesome about Terminator Salvation is that we are going to see the research and development into creating the Terminators that we’ve seen in the earlier films.

Robert Patrick, in some form, will be in the movie.

[Superhuman]

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2009/02/07/warner-bros-takes-the-comic-con-stage-with-watchmen-terminator-panels/

McG did make news by offering what amounted to a non-denial confirmation that Linda Hamilton and Arnold Schwarzenegger will be contributing to the movie, though in what capacities McG declined to state. Later at a roundtable for media, he said he’s also been in touch with Robert Patrick (who played the liquid metal T-1000) and Michael Biehn (who played Kyle Reese in the original film).

[nuclearjew]

Robert Patrick, in some form, will be in the movie.
Pun intended?

[Superhuman]

Pun intended?
That's what I was thinking after reading it a second time.

[Will-Kill]

I'm thinking Linda will show up in a Dream or Vision to John to fight the good fight and Robert just might be some random soldier in the background.

Thats what I think.

[Celtickliq]

I was at Comic Con today and it appears that UGO and MTV are misleading a bit. McG is in the process of trying to incorporate elements of the first 3 movies into this one. So he said that Sarah Conner is such an important character, that he has to have her seen in Salvation. As far as Biehn, McG wanted his opinion on how to play Reese since Salvation shows how Reese becomes the character shown in the original.

Also, that isnt being reported, McG, starting next week, is going to see how to get Arnold Schwarzenegger's likeness on to some of the Terminator's in the factory. McG said it would be easy if they wanted to have Arnold come in but that he would look too old. So next week, McG starts work on the special effects to try and make that happen.

[Superhuman]

I was at Comic Con today and it appears that UGO and MTV are misleading a bit. McG is in the process of trying to incorporate elements of the first 3 movies into this one. So he said that Sarah Conner is such an important character, that he has to have her seen in Salvation. As far as Biehn, McG wanted his opinion on how to play Reese since Salvation shows how Reese becomes the character shown in the original.

Also, that isnt being reported, McG, starting next week, is going to see how to get Arnold Schwarzenegger's likeness on to some of the Terminator's in the factory. McG said it would be easy if they wanted to have Arnold come in but that he would look too old. So next week, McG starts work on the special effects to try and make that happen.
How did the footage look?

Any word on a new trailer?

[Thewellz]

This movie is going to kick so much ass. It'll be so much better than the shitty 3rd one, fucking stupid movie.

[Celtickliq]

How did the footage look?

Any word on a new trailer?

The panel was an exciting one for me. I went in with very low expectations. Once I saw the trailer, and saw the transformer looking terminator, I was not very happy.

McG changed all that. He stated his case as a director, he went through the whole process how Bale forced WB to have the script more character driven, he acknowledged that he has a huge bulls-eye on him for Salvation and so on.

I thought the extended trailer was great. It has a very gritty feel to it. There for 5 or 6 parts on incomplete footage and test shots, but the majority of it all was full. Lots of footage of John Conner in action. Saving people, diving into a huge hole in the ground to save folk, him and Michael Ironside going at it with Bale explaining how the future his mother told him i'snt the same future they are in, lots of footage of Marcus. The footage and panel made Salvation a must see for me.