When will God kill the Devil?

[Mustard]

So, from what I've been taught in Bible School as a youngin, God is all powerful. Concensus on that?

Wonderful! So why doens't God just destroy, eviscerate, and remove all existence of the Devil? That sure would make life a lot easier... you know, not having some jackass running around in a red suit and telling us to get drunk and fornicate out of wedlock and then abortin' the baby. Clearly I'm talkin' about the REAL sins here people...

Anyone got any bright ideas about this?

[Archetype]

Job.

[Mustard]

You have a picture of Marcus in your Avatar...

I feel like I'm staring into the pit of hell.

[Jack Bauer]

if god destroyed the devil then he'd be no better than him, evil things in the world today drive people to believe in god more than if there was no sin.

[Archetype]

All depends on what belief system you're criticizing, have you read Paradise Lost yet?

[Mustard]

if god destroyed the devil then he'd be no better than him, evil things in the world today drive people to believe in god more than if there was no sin.
God is understood to be good, yes? But the Devil is responsible for corrupting humans on Earth, so wouldn't it be in humankind's best interest (which is God's best interest, right?) to see the Devil destroyed and eradicated from existence? That wouldn't be stooping to the low of the Devil, it would be a righteous and pure act, with the intention of abolishing the cause of evil (and all that entails like suffering and pain and what not) at the source. How killing the Devil be construed as an evil act is beyond my comprehension.

[Archetype]

God is understood to be good, yes?


Which is exactly it, you can't be good while forcing someone else to submit to your will.


Also, for another perspective, if God is in everything, do you think he truly could destroy the devil?

[Mustard]

Which is exactly it, you can't be good while forcing someone else to submit to your will.
Even if its for the good of all of mankind, one time?

Also, for another perspective, if God is in everything, do you think he truly could destroy the devil?
Of course I think that the Devil can be destroyed. God is omnipotent. The Devil is a real person... well, angel I should say. Lucifer to be exact. You know, the guy who was God's #2. If angels can be killed, surely Lucifer can be, as he was one, and technically still is one.

[Insomniac]

In Judaism, Satan is a court prosecutor, serving a function for God directly.

In Christianity, the Devil is allowed to rule the world. He corrupted mankind from earthly paradise in the form of a serpent, he "sowed weeds among the wheat" so God is letting both grow up until He knows which to cut, in other words allowing each to proving their worthiness or unworthiness. When the situation is such that there is no more wheat and all weeds, God will lock up the Devil for a thousand years so that no one has any more excuse, and then the Devil will be let out, raise an army, and God will burn it with fire from heaven before tossing the Devil and all allied with him into the lake of eternal fire.

It's all right there in the manual.

[Archetype]

Even if its for the good of all of mankind, one time?


Of course I think that the Devil can be destroyed. God is omnipotent. The Devil is a real person... well, angel I should say. Lucifer to be exact. You know, the guy who was God's #2. If angels can be killed, surely Lucifer can be, as he was one, and technically still is one.

Yeah, if that's your route, Insomniac's post pretty much covers it.

[Axel]

"It is Lucifer, the son of mystery; and since God suffers him to be, he, too, is god's minister, and labors for some good by us not understood."

[intlbizman]

In Judaism, Satan is a court prosecutor, serving a function for God directly.

In Christianity, the Devil is allowed to rule the world. He corrupted mankind from earthly paradise in the form of a serpent, he "sowed weeds among the wheat" so God is letting both grow up until He knows which to cut, in other words allowing each to proving their worthiness or unworthiness. When the situation is such that there is no more wheat and all weeds, God will lock up the Devil for a thousand years so that no one has any more excuse, and then the Devil will be let out, raise an army, and God will burn it with fire from heaven before tossing the Devil and all allied with him into the lake of eternal fire.

It's all right there in the manual.


that makes God some rather melodramatic. sounds like some weird OC / 90210 plot... to stretch it into extra seasons.

As anyone thought of this: perhaps God needs the Devil to survive? yin vs yang! in our world there are always opposites. male vs female, day vs night, right vs wrong. there isn't one without the other! maybe without the devil there would be no God...?

more importantly, i thought God stopped his ways of violence since the Old Testament. it's like he went to anger management class since and in the New Testament came back all mellow and patient and forgiving?

[Insomniac]

God isn't any more or less violent or merciful in the New or Old Testament. I'm totally serious.

[Archetype]

God the character, or God the God?

[Don Scrappy]

From a totally secular view point... The answer is that the devil and god are made up and that there is no rationality to either.

Personally I think any attempt to explain life or god is completely useless, there is no rational explanation for why we are here or why evil exists.

As for why god doesn't kill the devil, neither exist.

that is my opinion, however, I don't disregard the possibility of a supreme.

[Insomniac]

God the character, or God the God?

Character. You can definitely argue He has undergone changes from the leader of a pantheon or the "my tribal God is better than your tribal God," but mercy and violence stayed about the same.

Sodom and Gomorrah would have been spared for ten good people. The Israelites continued to get second chances all the way until the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities. And the Assyrians were spared after Jonah went to them. Even Adam and Eve did not "surely die" because they ate of the tree of knowledge, although they were kicked out. So mercy was always present.

Meanwhile in the New Testament, it's a much shorter timespan. The Old Testament is generations; the New is just one. Annanias and Sapphira is classic instant judgment. More importantly is the subtext of most of the New Testament, that when Jerusalem was sacked and the temple razed and thousands killed, it was the Jews' own fault for rejecting the Messiah.

So as a character, God stays pretty consistent, even as the writers' own purposes and understandings differed.

[Archangel]

Because a metaphor can't kill another metaphor.


One is the idea (platonically speaking) of good, the other is the idea of evil. We're the mimesis of both, and we're stuck in between those two poles; we have to be, because otherwise, there would be no free will. You have to realise for yourself that good is the way to go: Giving people no choice is like Tito telling the ethnicities in Yugoslavia to be nice to each other, or else.

[VoxAngelikus]

Good can never fully overcome evil, just as light can never overcome dark, on can never get the better of off, up cannot overcome down.

The concepts of God and Satan as good and evil are the opposite ends of the same pole. You cannot separate one without destroying the entire game!

[Archangel]

Christianity has it all wrong. I don't buy into the whole "son of God" business. While there seems to be something providing order, whatever god there is, is far beyond our comprehension. Similarly, considering the size of the universe and the likelyhood of uncountable sentient beings, we are probably not this god's main focus either. As far as there being a "devil" I find that to be an invention of Christianity to keep the masses in line. Evil is relative.

What is it with Americans not understanding the difference between Judaism and Christianity? The preachers talk about hellfire and executing homosexuals, and the atheists think that that's what it's about. Fucking hell, has anyone there actually read the bloody Gospels? All of what you say applies to Judaism. None of it applies to Christianity.

Christianity has, in your sense, NOT got it all wrong. BECAUSE the essentially divine is unknowable and unattainable, Christianity, through the figure of Christ, tells us that all we can strive for is not to be divine, but HUMAN. That as imperfect reflections of a perfect idea, the closest we can get to divinity is being as human as we can be, with love, intelligence and creativity being our essential traits. THAT'S WHY IN THE FIGURE OF CHRIST, GOD BECOMES A HUMAN FUCKING BEING, not some praeternatural entity, miracles aside. He predates humanist thought (which actually in part happened by people looking at the figure of Christ without prejudice) by, oh, 1350 years.

Jesus came to do away with all the mythological bullshit, and what did people do, stupid as they fucking are? Mythologise Him. Idiots.


I'll disagree with one thing, though, evil is very much not relative.

[Morfin]

From a totally secular view point... The answer is that the devil and god are made up and that there is no rationality to either.

Personally I think any attempt to explain life or god is completely useless, there is no rational explanation for why we are here or why evil exists.

As for why god doesn't kill the devil, neither exist.

that is my opinion, however, I don't disregard the possibility of a supreme.

Oh, Diana Ross is real, my friend.

[Kerjack]

Free agency, Devil didn't want it, Jesus did. If you kill the devil its almost like you are siding with him. Thats why I have always found this comic so amusing.

http://sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-01-31.gif

[smith42687]

Never.

Free will is the only thing that separates us from angels. We are given a choice, and without the devil, the choice is gone. Then we are the robot slaves of God, like angels.


or


When Lee Harvey Oswald's 2009 counterpart gets rid of the next President. Hey, don't blame me, they started the JFK comparisons and we're due for the Anti-Christ soon.

[Area Man]

because god vs the devil is one of many religious stories that was produced by our own understanding of the world. It helps to support the notion that we are the good guys and our enemies (the evil do-ers as GWB put it) are aligned with the devil.

[HAWK]

When will God kill the Devil?

Technically, never.

If you read the bible--especially Revelation--it claims that eventually God will judge Satan, bind him and cast him in the Lake of Fire (not to be confused with Hell BTW).

This also applies to us all. God never "killed" anyone if you consider the big picture. Your mortal life may end...but good or bad your ass belongs to him in the long run.

[SniffTheLog]

God and the Devil don't exist.

[Fiend1138]

God and the Devil don't exist.

[mongo]

*comes in, looks around*

hey, has anyone made a daniel webster joke yet?

*leaves, never to return to said thread*

[redsox39]

From what I have read in the bible, God has commanded Armies to wipe out entire Villages and towns, and gave them the power to kill all of the occupants in that city, or sometimes leave the women to be had as slaves. All while making sure you can't be killed. So if that is the God we are talking about, I think he could kill the Devil without much after thought or guilt...

[Archetype]

God and the Devil don't exist.
Thanks Sink, if it weren't for you, I'd never've had this revelation.

[Fiend1138]

http://www.ethanwiner.com/atheist.gif

[Archangel]

From what I have read in the bible, God has commanded Armies to wipe out entire Villages and towns, and gave them the power to kill all of the occupants in that city, or sometimes leave the women to be had as slaves. All while making sure you can't be killed. So if that is the God we are talking about, I think he could kill the Devil without much after thought or guilt...

Is the New Testament banned in America, or something?

[Archetype]

Or everything past the first 5 books.

[ElvisWong]

God and the Devil don't exist.


It's real...

[kid_vidrio]

When will the snake eats its own head after consuming its tail?

Idiots.

[Okie Medicvet]

You know the guy that wrote "When Bad Things Happen To Good People", Harold Kushner, also wrote one called "How Good Do We Have To Be: A New Understanding of Guilt and Forgiveness", that has an interesting take on the matter of the 'tale of eden'..

Jewish and Christian religions reinforce feelings of guilt and inadequacy by using the story of the Fall of Adam and Eve to teach that humankind's spiritual inadequacies are inherent. Rabbi Kushner (When Bad Things Happen to Good People, 1981) here retells the Genesis story of the primeval couple to demonstrate that the imperfections of humankind do not merit the loss of God's love, nor should they foster the guilt and anxiety that they often do in a society driven by a misguided attachment to perfection. Combining psychology and spirituality, Kushner invokes the power of acceptance and forgiveness as a means of overcoming the insidious consequences of a preoccupation with perfection. For most libraries.

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Have-Understanding-Guilt-Forgiveness/dp/0316519332/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223106552&sr=8-1

[Mustard]

Thanks Sink, if it weren't for you, I'd never've had this revelation.
Yeah, sure, no problem man. Maybe you can repay the favor one day?

[Archangel]

Rabbi Kushner (When Bad Things Happen to Good People, 1981) here retells the Genesis story of the primeval couple to demonstrate that the imperfections of humankind do not merit the loss of God's love, nor should they foster the guilt and anxiety that they often do in a society driven by a misguided attachment to perfection.

Rabbi Kushner obviously has never read John, chapter 3.

[ElvisWong]

When will the snake eats its own head after consuming its tail?

Idiots.
How the snake do it ? :confused:

[Yelram]

God is understood to be good, yes? But the Devil is responsible for corrupting humans on Earth, so wouldn't it be in humankind's best interest (which is God's best interest, right?) to see the Devil destroyed and eradicated from existence? That wouldn't be stooping to the low of the Devil, it would be a righteous and pure act, with the intention of abolishing the cause of evil (and all that entails like suffering and pain and what not) at the source. How killing the Devil be construed as an evil act is beyond my comprehension.

God is just as bad as he is good, God created the devil. The devil is humanity's teacher.

[Pax Britannia]

I think we need to hear from Al on this one.

sbRn3PzRYhE

God doesnt destroy the devil because he needs someone to act in opposition. He's also a handy fall man for the religious to blame when things to wrong.

[Mustard]

So God won't kill the Devil because he would become obsolete without him?

When looking at it that way, who has the power here?

[Pax Britannia]

So God won't kill the Devil because he would become obsolete without him?

When looking at it that way, who has the power here?

They both exist to further their own existance.

[Mustard]

That is so much ego that I don't even know where to begin...

[Archangel]

"When will people stop talking about metaphysical concepts like they were comic book characters?" would be a better question, though.

[Mustard]

"When will people stop talking about metaphysical concepts like they were comic book characters?" would be a better question, though.
I dunno, maybe when the majority of American's realize that the entier Bible isn't actual a literal description of what exactly took place?

Seeing as I started this thread playing the Devil's Advocate, and seeing as there are always bound to be people who actually think there is a good man who lives in the clouds, and a bad man running around in a red suit with a hayfork, I get to ask these silly yet poignant questions.

In poker, this is called exposing your hand, in religion, this is called herecy. I wonder if the actual goal of Christianity is to confuse the fuck out of everyone to the point that nobody has the right answer, ever, and never will, ever? Sure as hell seems like it...

[Morfin]

In poker, this is called exposing your hand, in religion, this is called herecy.

It may be called "herecy," but it's spelled "heresy."

[Nosebuckle]

In poker, this is called exposing your hand, in religion, this is called herecy. I wonder if the actual goal of Christianity is to confuse the fuck out of everyone to the point that nobody has the right answer, ever, and never will, ever? Sure as hell seems like it...

Aren't you the guy that really wants to believe in God but can't bring yourself to so?

[freegood]

I dunno, maybe when the majority of American's realize that the entier Bible isn't actual a literal description of what exactly took place?


Have you've ever read the entire Bible?

I ask because the majority of Americans haven't.

[Archetype]

I dunno, maybe when the majority of American's realize that the entier Bible isn't actual a literal description of what exactly took place?

People are stupid, you know this, it'll be a long long long time before that happens.
Seeing as I started this thread playing the Devil's Advocate, and seeing as there are always bound to be people who actually think there is a good man who lives in the clouds, and a bad man running around in a red suit with a hayfork, I get to ask these silly yet poignant questions.

You are so asking the wrong group of people then.

In poker, this is called exposing your hand, in religion, this is called herecy. I wonder if the actual goal of Christianity is to confuse the fuck out of everyone to the point that nobody has the right answer, ever, and never will, ever? Sure as hell seems like it...


Dude, what the fuck? That's life, not just one religion. You say that as if there really is a mastermind sitting behind the curtain. It's all curtain, and each of us is just trying to find his fold.

[ElvisWong]

Have you've ever read the entire Bible?

I ask because the majority of Americans haven't.

Are you crazy ? Read the entire bible....I prefer spending me time on this forum!

[freegood]

It comes in picture form now, you know.

[Archetype]

I totally bought the Darth Vader Reads... version.

[Jabba_Wookie]

Its all bout the Balance, Good-Bad, Light-Dark, Imagine a World with out Sin, or what would be a sin as God Forgives all and if theres no hell then Heaven is gonna get full..........

[Mustard]

Dude, what the fuck? That's life, not just one religion. You say that as if there really is a mastermind sitting behind the curtain. It's all curtain, and each of us is just trying to find his fold.
So you're essentially saying that the whole goal of life is to confuse the masses into a state of confusion that they cannot break free of? Am I reading into that right?

Look, I think I get all of this. You mention a mastermind, and I know who and what it is. It isn't god, and it isn't the devil. It is human beings being human beings who use the tangible metaphysical concept of good versus evil as a form of controlling their followers to suit their own ends, whatever they may be. It is the biggest con job of all time and it has been happening ever since, well, it is debatable when it started, lets just say a long time ago. Too long in my opinion, as this is my opinion because its what I see, and have seen, as a rather unaffiliated person.

From what I can tell, it appears that religions of all kinds really only serve one thing: Themself. Now that statement to say unabashedly isn't fair, because the degree of civilization the populous has is reflected in each religion of said populous. Perhaps its possible as a populous grows in civility throughout the centuries that it can overcome a selfish religious tendency and grow into something not yet seen, but I doubt I'll see that day. So until that day, religion will continue to be used by human beings for their own twisted ends, and as a result the followers will suffer by being told that ignorance is bliss, that their beliefs are literal facts of life, and that their religion is better than every other religion on the planet, ever in the history of humanity. I mean for fucks sake... the bellicosity and arrogance of religion I feel really knows no bounds for all of those combined reasons. Islam and American Christianity are the two major culprits and I hate both with a passion, but maybe its better elsewhere?

God, I hope so.

[Archetype]

So you're essentially saying that the whole goal of life is to confuse the masses into a state of confusion that they cannot break free of? Am I reading into that right?

Look, I think I get all of this. You mention a mastermind, and I know who and what it is.

You already missed the point of what I was saying, you're trying to lay blame of something that has penetrated every part of humanity on a certain group of people; no person, no group, no institution, no bureaucracy has that kind of power. And yes, this is all coming from a recently converted anarchist. The people with power have always controlled those without, but that power always manages to shift because they abuse that power.

I think the thing that confuses Americans (I use the word loosely) so bad, is that as soon as Christianity hit it's soil, it became an enterprise. It became a product to be sold, and sell it did. En masse. Helped that it was already there en masse, but the way it was done evolved. Go to a Baptist church and ask anyone if they know who Augustine is, and they will look at you dumbfounded. Aquinas, Pascal, Milton, Dante; they might know the name, but they won't know any works. What's worse, they will disregard them as imperfect writings, since they came from men.

It's lowest common denominator worship, and total bullshit. This is going on here, too, btw. I had a class a couple weeks ago, and I was the only one who had read the Republic. I probably could have lead that group straight into a well and left them there. Jesus they actually had a premiere party for Zeitgeist 2. What the fuck?

Fucking hell, I can't remember what I was talking about, damned booze.

[Mustard]

You already missed the point of what I was saying, you're trying to lay blame of something that has penetrated every part of humanity on a certain group of people; no person, no group, no institution, no bureaucracy has that kind of power.
I disagree. I think faith that there is a God (and as a consequence, a Devil) has that kind of power, and that people who are sick and twisted use that faith to serve their own sick ends. Faith is a massively powerful force that human beings have, and I really think a large percentage of people will allow their various faiths to control their thinking (via the twisted fucks) who twist and pervert literal interpretations into something they can use to control thoughts and prevent original thought. The power of faith is abundant, and sick people exploit that with malice of forethought.

And yes, this is all coming from a recently converted anarchist. The people with power have always controlled those without, but that power always manages to shift because they abuse that power. So how do you see it happening then with American Christianity and Islam?

I think the thing that confuses Americans (I use the word loosely) so bad, is that as soon as Christianity hit it's soil, it became an enterprise. It became a product to be sold, and sell it did. En masse. Helped that it was already there en masse, but the way it was done evolved. Go to a Baptist church and ask anyone if they know who Augustine is, and they will look at you dumbfounded. Aquinas, Pascal, Milton, Dante; they might know the name, but they won't know any works. What's worse, they will disregard them as imperfect writings, since they came from men.
You're probably about 98% right. Hopefully they haven't heard of Milton though... of what I've read of his I felt like gouging my eyes out of my head with a toothpick. Anyway, like I said, you're probably about 98% right though, and thats a tragic reflection of the direction sick and twisted, power hungry human beings have taken religion in America.

It's lowest common denominator worship, and total bullshit. This is going on here, too, btw. I had a class a couple weeks ago, and I was the only one who had read the Republic. I probably could have lead that group straight into a well and left them there. Jesus they actually had a premiere party for Zeitgeist 2. What the fuck?

Fucking hell, I can't remember what I was talking about, damned booze.I'm not sure what it was exactly that you were trying to say, but from the context I would guess that you and I actually see reasonably eye to eye about this subject. Maybe there is just a communication barrier getting in the way?

[bdjlo09]

Never, Because you can't kill something that doesn't exist.

[Axel]

BEEP! Wrong answer!

[bdjlo09]

Screeeeeech..............
Erasing the hallucination of an imaginary entity known as the Devil

[Yelram]

Screeeeeech..............
Erasing the hallucination of an imaginary entity known as the Devil



Do people not understand concepts anymore? Everything has to be a living, breathing, anthropomorphized disney character for you to understand it exists or something?

[Archangel]

I think I did say something about that yesterday...

[Archangel]

Never, Because you can't kill something that doesn't exist.

You know what's funny?


That people become atheists so they can sound smarter then they are, and then, they see that that their place is taken by people like iolas, crack, and this cretin.

Must be quite disappointing.

[Axel]

Yeah bdildo09, you belong to the camp of religious fundamentalists: you know all of the answers.

[UNC]

Nobody ever dies in this chess game.

I would consider burning in a bottomless pit a little worse than death...but I'm sure we'll all get used to it after a few million years

[Morfin]

You know what's funny?


That people become atheists so they can sound smarter then they are.

Hello. Did someone call me?

http://data1.blog.de/blog/e/enterthevoid/img/oz_scarecrow_1.jpg

[Archangel]

No.

[jtsteen12]

hahaha such a funny question. Symbolically speaking of course, If God killed the devil it would be the end of God. Good cannot exist without evil. the conception of evil was born along side that of goodness. Forget about ultimate purity and walk the benevolent middle way balancing what life has to offer.

[Night Hawk]

hahaha such a funny question. Symbolically speaking of course, If God killed the devil it would be the end of God. Good cannot exist without evil. the conception of evil was born along side that of goodness. Forget about ultimate purity and walk the benevolent middle way balancing what life has to offer.

Actually if you believe in GOD then you believe in the Creation. And if you believe that, then you know the story of the Garden of Eden. And that it existed without sin. It was THEN that Evil came upon man and banished man from the Garden.

So you would then know that the Garden and man, were all GOOD in the image of God himself, until Sin embarked upon man. This implies Good existed first. And if it existed first, then it existed alone for a bit, which would make Good possible without evil, but evil is not possible without good.

[Nature's Folly]

Devil has been running the show for awhile...god thought jesus was too much a pussy to hand the keys to store over.

[Genius]

The real question is, "when will the Devil finally kill God?"

[IdiotBrain]

"If you kill all my demons might my angels die too?"

Here is proof that if there is a god, he is a man, and he does love us:
http://cdn.holytaco.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/keyra_agustina_sexy_ass_booty_sex_1.jpg
And here is proof he has a sense of humor:
http://www.duke.edu/%7Ejch32/compsci4/webpages/webpages/Platypus_files/platypus4.gif

[Distortion]

My opinion is that there has to be evil, you can't have good with out it. If there was no evil you wouldn't recognize the existence of good and understand the difference therefore you'd have no choice and no free will. Without free will and choice then theres no point in life. There'd be know way for life to grow and evolve, life would operate like laws of nature. If there is a god why would it create a world that mimiced a merry-go-round.

[Yelram]

Actually if you believe in GOD then you believe in the Creation. And if you believe that, then you know the story of the Garden of Eden. And that it existed without sin. It was THEN that Evil came upon man and banished man from the Garden.

So you would then know that the Garden and man, were all GOOD in the image of God himself, until Sin embarked upon man. This implies Good existed first. And if it existed first, then it existed alone for a bit, which would make Good possible without evil, but evil is not possible without good.

He made the devil first dumbass. Human beings did not KNOW evil, but the fact that within the garden, was a tree with the knowledge of good and evil, infers that evil existed PRIOR to human beings. God created the devil, therefor God created evil. Being the creator of evil, embarks some level of evilness upon god. Not to mention the shit God did to Job...

[freegood]

It was words that gave man creation, and it was words that gave man sin.

So the answer is when everyone shuts the fuck up.

[Genius]

My opinion is that there has to be evil, you can't have good with out it. If there was no evil you wouldn't recognize the existence of good and understand the difference therefore you'd have no choice and no free will. Without free will and choice then theres no point in life. There'd be know way for life to grow and evolve, life would operate like laws of nature. If there is a god why would it create a world that mimiced a merry-go-round.
So you're saying that in a mundane world where no one strived to be good, but where there were also no acts of inherent evil, a singular good act wouldn't be recognized?

There is no good and there is no evil, and therefore there are no classically defined Gods and Devils. There are only actions, and the relative good or evil they represent to each individual. If there is a higher (or lower) power, he or she is likely as flawed and imperfect as we are. Gandhi probably had a foot fetish, and Hitler might have loved him some gardening. Mother Teresa may have enjoyed picking her nose, and Osama bin Laden possibly has a soft spot for kittens.

[Distortion]

So you're saying that in a mundane world where no one strived to be good, but where there were also no acts of inherent evil, a singular good act wouldn't be recognized?

there wouldn't be any acts period, with out evil there would be no right and wrong, so there wouldn't be any right or wrong decisions to make. If theres no decisions to make then you don't have a choice what you do because theres only one option. And if your not making any decisions and not figuring out choices then your not growing as a spirit and life is pointless.


There is no good and there is no evil, and therefore there are no classically defined Gods and Devils. There are only actions, and the relative good or evil they represent to each individual. If there is a higher (or lower) power, he or she is likely as flawed and imperfect as we are. Gandhi probably had a foot fetish, and Hitler might have loved him some gardening. Mother Teresa may have enjoyed picking her nose, and Osama bin Laden possibly has a soft spot for kittens.

Exactly, there is no good and there is no evil, or gods and devils, but there are no actions because your not really choosing to do anything your just acting on pure instinct like a fly who flies around for 48 hours with no purpose except the instinct to go make a baby and die. It knows no good or evil, it's life has no purpose or meaning, it just knows it's suppose to go fuck something and die and thats it for him. Thats what life would be with out two sides to everything and a choice. Were born, we have no critical thought about anything, we just do what were chemically programmed to do, then we die. You wouldn't have feelings and very little thought if any... what the point be of existence... Which brings up the question, is all of existence on earth only here to further the existence of man? if not then why the pointless existence of some creatures like the fly? Whatever the higher power is, it's definately flawed... Why have a creature like the gold fish who only remembers life 30 seconds at a time, which means when a gold fish dies the only thing it's ever known in it's whole life is dieing.

[Genius]

there wouldn't be any acts period, with out evil there would be no right and wrong, so there wouldn't be any right or wrong decisions to make. If theres no decisions to make then you don't have a choice what you do because theres only one option. And if your not making any decisions and not figuring out choices then your not growing as a spirit and life is pointless.
So Good = Right and Evil = Wrong? I can't agree with that. Entirely too simplistic. The point of my earlier argument is that everything, even the actions of Hitler and Mother Teresa, are still shades of gray, and that even the most vile or noble acts are open to individual interpretation. If it turned out that Jews spread some horrible genetic defect responsible for the death of a large portion of the human race in the 1970s, more than a few people would have lamented that Hitler had failed, and not just the "evil" people. Would the Holocaust still have been considered "evil"? Of course. But would it retain the "most evilist act in the history of mankind" title that it currently holds? I doubt it. Charlemagne, Napoleon, Alexander, Julius Caesar. We celebrate these men today. None of them can be classified as "Evil". But if any of them attempted to pull off a fraction of what they did in the past in today's world, they would be reviled as much, if not more so, than a bin Laden.

[Insomniac]

Persians still don't have much fondness for Alexander the Great. Juan de Onate is a great man, unless you're an Indian. You didn't like him much then and probably still don't.

Achievements often come at the expense of others, so perspective matters, too, not just time.

[Archetype]

There is no good and there is no evil, and therefore there are no classically defined Gods and Devils. There are only actions, and the relative good or evil they represent to each individual. If there is a higher (or lower) power, he or she is likely as flawed and imperfect as we are.
You don't really know your theology or mythology very well, do you?

[Genius]

You don't really know your theology or mythology very well, do you?
In keeping with the theme of the thread, I was referring to the Christian God and Devil, aka perfection in deity form and the personification of evil. Greek and Roman Gods represent a significantly large can of worms here, to be sure.

[gwreckk]

god doesn't need to worry about the devil.
barbara streisand should be his top priority.

[Archetype]

In keeping with the theme of the thread, I was referring to the Christian God and Devil, aka perfection in deity form and the personification of evil. Greek and Roman Gods represent a significantly large can of worms here, to be sure.
The Christian God and Devil are perfect? Since when?

That might be an idea, but the expression of it always presents flaws.

[Distortion]

So Good = Right and Evil = Wrong? I can't agree with that. Entirely too simplistic. The point of my earlier argument is that everything, even the actions of Hitler and Mother Teresa, are still shades of gray, and that even the most vile or noble acts are open to individual interpretation. If it turned out that Jews spread some horrible genetic defect responsible for the death of a large portion of the human race in the 1970s, more than a few people would have lamented that Hitler had failed, and not just the "evil" people. Would the Holocaust still have been considered "evil"? Of course. But would it retain the "most evilist act in the history of mankind" title that it currently holds? I doubt it. Charlemagne, Napoleon, Alexander, Julius Caesar. We celebrate these men today. None of them can be classified as "Evil". But if any of them attempted to pull off a fraction of what they did in the past in today's world, they would be reviled as much, if not more so, than a bin Laden.

the individual interpretation of whether good=right and bad=wrong and what constitutes as good and evil is irrelevant in my point, because the fact still remains that each person has a right and wrong choice or a good and bad choice. It doesn't matter how each individual interpretates that choice, it's the fact that there is a choice and with out both good and evil you wouldn't haven't it, meaning there would be no decisions and only one way to go.

[Genius]

The Christian God and Devil are perfect? Since when?

That might be an idea, but the expression of it always presents flaws.
Not my claims, I'm representing Christian ideals. God is infallible, the Devil is the ultimate evil.

[Mustard]

Off Topic a smidge, but hey... Is it just a coincidence that if you add another "O" to God you get "Good", and if you remove the "D" from "Devil" you are left with "Evil"? I mean, is it really that simple?

So now if we go back to the title question of the thread, and substituted the new terms, the question becomes "When will Good kill the Evil?"

Clearly the answer to that question is never, because good can't kill evil, and evil can't kill good.

I think I get it now.

[Night Hawk]

He made the devil first dumbass. Human beings did not KNOW evil, but the fact that within the garden, was a tree with the knowledge of good and evil, infers that evil existed PRIOR to human beings. God created the devil, therefor God created evil. Being the creator of evil, embarks some level of evilness upon god. Not to mention the shit God did to Job...


He didn't make the DEVIL... He made the Angel Lucifer... Who then BECAME the Devil when he decided to fall from heaven. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SIR... You are the dumbass!

[BIG PIZZLE]

God needs the devil. If god created everything then he created evil. The devil will never die, but you will.

[Okie Medicvet]

God is understood to be good, yes? But the Devil is responsible for corrupting humans on Earth, so wouldn't it be in humankind's best interest (which is God's best interest, right?) to see the Devil destroyed and eradicated from existence? That wouldn't be stooping to the low of the Devil, it would be a righteous and pure act, with the intention of abolishing the cause of evil (and all that entails like suffering and pain and what not) at the source. How killing the Devil be construed as an evil act is beyond my comprehension.

But God is omniprescient and knows all. So to win agains the devil, he has to at first acknowledge that he created the devil, for whatever his form of reasoning is..to tempt humans..to fuck with them? What kind of good deity punishes his/her subjects because they are not as advanced as the should be. Every bit of blame belongs to God, because God created evil as well as good.

[UNC]

You are dumb

[Archangel]

You should really go read the book of Job, because all the questions in this thread are pretty much answered there.

[Okie Medicvet]

We should have an entirely different thread that deals specifically with the book of job and the problems it solved and the new ones it created..only for those who have read that particular tome over a half dozen times at least. jmo.

[Archangel]

6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

[Okie Medicvet]

but then again, in Job, his family was killed, his wealth gone, his friends not his true friends, and his health failing, his wife knows he is being done wrong and tells him to curse god and die, and what keeps job going is is sheer stubborness at some point.

I would say rather go back to the garden on evil, learn a different interpretation of the nature of good and evil..Rabbi Harold Kushner, the same man who wrote "When Bad things happen to Good People", has written a tome on a whole nother take on the garden of eden tale, and speaks on the nature of forgiveness. I actually liked this book more than the one he is best known for..when bad things happen to good people. I think maybe because the first one raises as many questions as it answers, but the next book talkes abut all of us trying to reach an understanding on the nature of the immortal, on the nature of forgiveness,and comes up with some very salient points.

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Have-Understanding-Guilt-Forgiveness/dp/0316519332

[Cryp]

I don't believe God exists, nor the devil.

People choose what they do to an extent, the more powerful ones choose what others do. That will never change.

[freegood]

but then again, in Job, his family was killed, his wealth gone, his friends not his true friends, and his health failing, his wife knows he is being done wrong and tells him to curse god and die, and what keeps job going is is sheer stubborness at some point.


But Job's stubborness was rewarded. Things aren't always all good or all bad.

[vasili denisov]

One problem with the idea of a devil, is that though we can conceive of a platonic idea of the good, some extraordinary ideal, which an earthly human can approach, it's difficult to conceive of a converse platonic ideal of evil. For example, someone of extraordinary kindness and charity who saves the lives of children during a war can be said to approach this ideal of good. They may have qualities that are considered esteemed attributes such as intelligence and courage, put in the service of what is considered (too often in the abstract) humanity's overwhelming ideal, a selfless altruism towards others.

There's a difficulty creating a converse of this, a platonic anti-ideal, and a human who approaches. There are two possible types, neither quite satisfies the category, though they both arguably share the quality of the transgression of a natural law (say, the killing of infants) when their vital self-interest is not at stake. A case of such a transgression committed out of self-interest that tests our judgement might be the bombing of a german port during World War II, killing massive numbers of civilians, as well as several nazi U-Boats.

An example of such a transgression where vital self-interest is not at stake would be parents neglecting their child to the point of starvation, while spending money on luxuries for themselves. There's some variation of this story that can be found any week in the tabloid press. What makes this a difficult fit for an anti-ideal is that those who commit such crimes are often mediocrities - they carry no exceptional qualities, except a puzzling indifference to those they should care about.

The second type would be the dictator or tyrant who may possess some of the ideal qualities of humanity, such as bravery or intelligence, yet commits mass murder. What makes us label figures as Stalin and Hitler as "evil" is not just that killing is wrong, but that their killing can't even given a possible basis in self-preservation. They were committed either because of bizarre racial theories or utter paranoia.

The hesitation of labeling even these figures as "evil" is that it enforces the idea of single agents causing great harm in the world, rather than the complicity of a group of individuals acting in concert. The devil, in almost all depictions, is all-powerful or near all-powerful. To compare earthly tyrants to this anti-ideal is to imply that there are agents of evil who wholely enforce their will on others, rather than the willful complicity of those who co-operate out of self-interest in committing heinous crimes, with the self-justification that they are only following orders. By referring to such tyrants as evil is to endorse Adolf Eichmann's conception of himself, that he is a compelled servant of a greater force, that his crimes are not entirely his own.

[Jeff]

I think they are both just ideas. Good and evil, putting a face to an idea that will make some people all the better for it. I think it takes a strong person to believe in what they can't prove. It also takes a strong person to live the right way and fight the good fight not because of what they fear in an afterlife, but because that is the right way to behave. Long ago people worshipped lizards...stars...many different things, is God that much different? Perhaps in a few thousand years people will laugh at us for what we believe in.

[Kilgore]

If God kills the Devil then the Southen Baptist will have no reason to exist. They feed on the the fear of the Devil. I'm sure a lot more religions do to. How shitty is a story about a vampire slayer with no vampire to kill?

[STDSkillz]

I would say that's a pretty shitty story, myself. Good example.

[extremegenesis]

There's no way the devil can beat God. The devil is a true asshole! God is great!

[Trident]

Grandslam.

[Daydreamer]

God will never kill the Devil. Then he'd be out of a job and have to stand on the side of the road carrying a sign saying, "Will work for praise from idiots!" Or if God is a woman then she'd have to be a whore.

[winkeraw]

God will never kill the Devil. Then he'd be out of a job and have to stand on the side of the road carrying a sign saying, "Will work for praise from idiots!" Or if God is a woman then she'd have to be a whore.

This is great.

[obstaclecorpse]

The devil works for god.
It's all a ploy to keep the economy afloat, duh.

[Izayus]

God can't kill the devil because he's incompetent at destroying anything of his own creation.

[bdjlo09]

or when will the Devil kill the God?

[gilliath]

wait the devil is real ahhh!

[Woomera]

if the devil would vanish then there would be nothing to do for GOD, just pointless. and anyway he's having fun watching us suffer so why would he. and no i dont hate him, i pretty much love GOD and believe in him but i also think its kinda fun figuring these things out so why should i argue with how he run it the way he does.

[merlin13]

God will not kill Satan. To contradict himself, remember Thou shalt not kill, would be detrimental to the belief system. Besides so much emphasis is put on turning the other cheek and Love thy enemy. It's a vicious circle and no win situation.

[splinter]

only one person can kill satan, and his name is, Billy Mays. He was sent to hell on a mission to destroy the devil....he failed.

[yogih27]

God can't kill the devil, it's again his principle