Who won the VP debate?

[dadaelus]

Well?

[nuclearjew]

Palin, according to Rollins.

[dadaelus]

What is your take on it?

[nuclearjew]

I don't know, I was too busy flipping to the OSU/Utah game. What I saw sounded like a bunch of stupid rhetoric.

[BIG PIZZLE]

This wasnt even close.

[Ace Rockola]

Palin did pretty well, but I had low expectations. Biden won simply because he didnt answer most of his questions in generalizations.

[nuclearjew]

Palin did pretty good, but I had low expectations. Biden won simply because he didnt answer most of his questions in generalizations.
*did pretty well

C'mon, you don't want to sound like a Sarah Palin, do you?

[willydong]

biden won simply on knowledge of the issues; palin trying to brush off the past as if it didnt matter or should be taken with a grain of salt really irked me and came off as disingenuous

[FrozenBagel]

did anyone else catch Palin Calling Biden "O'biden"??

[Ace Rockola]

Thanks Jew.

[zaphrodesiac]

Who gives a shit. I sure hope the most competent VP gets into office, because you never know when they might have to break a tie in the Senate? Please. Much ado about nothing. Biden has always been inept.

Palin wins because she's the only candidate I'd let blow me.

And no I didn't watch that insignificant bullshit.

[Soup Nazi]

Palin impressed me, and with some more seasoning I think she could out-debate McCain. That being said, I don't think it was that close, Biden just had way too much knowledge. I also had to knock Palin down a couple points each time she brought up something Obama voted for, and phrased it as a negative, when McCain voted the same way.

[Black_Sun]

Palin got spanked, and not in the good way that we'd all like to see.

[Claydon]

Both of these people were so controlled by the campaign's handlers. Biden was a wood puppet sitting on the knee of obama basically regurgitating obama's tripe, and Palin was so rigid in her speaking because of McCain's people that no substance really came of this show.

Biden CONSTANTLY contradicted everything he said in the primary it was rather pathetic, and Palin kind of moaned on about things she didn't get.

Oh and some of the questions though hard hitting were gay, because you know both of them were not going to touch these issues. The Sudan question was a prime example, neither one of them want to talk about the real issue with Sudan, the chinese. We wouldn't want to cut the government off from its source of cash to pay our debt would we?

[Mustard]

Palin wins because she's the only candidate I'd let blow me.
You know that isn't true...

[nuclearjew]

This is a very important debate, seeing as McCain will die in office and Obama will be assassinated. Pay attention!

[Lone Wolf]

Who gives a shit. I sure hope the most competent VP gets into office, because you never know when they might have to break a tie in the Senate? Please. Much ado about nothing. Biden has always been inept.

Palin wins because she's the only candidate I'd let blow me.

And no I didn't watch that insignificant bullshit.

Well, thanks for that worthless answer.

I thought Palin got off easy on skipping a lot of the questions. The total trainwreck moment didn't show up, which is good for her. She hung in there better than I thought, so that might be enough for people. I thought she was very repetitive and sounded like a broken record.

I'll go with Biden, but not by as big a margin as I thought going in.

[Philip Lombard]

Her American flag pin is bigger. I think she wins.

[Desperado]

Biden was a wood puppet sitting on the knee of obama basically regurgitating obama's tripe

I will agree that Biden did a good job talking about Obamas stance on policies... She pretty much wasted half of that debate talking about Alaska.

[Claydon]

I will agree that Biden did a good job talking about Obamas stance on policies... She pretty much wasted half of that debate talking about Alaska.

No she didn't I got to see her mouth in action and dream some big dreams.........(shaking head)...WAIT...what?!

[Pike Bishop]

That was Sarah Palin? Fuck, I listened to it on the radio and assumed that Biden was debating with Frances McDormand's character from Fargo.

[Debo]

I thought that Biden did well tonight. He didn't say anything stupid and you could tell that he was very comfortable up there.

Palin started out kind of slow. She looked nervous, and rightly so. I think that she hit her stride by the middle of the debate, but I am not a fan of her populist rhetoric (this goes for McCain too).

Overall, she is Rocky in Rocky I. By making it to the end, she might have won the crowd but lost the fight.

[willydong]

This is a very important debate, seeing as McCain will die in office and Obama will be assassinated. Pay attention!
you're the umpteenth (an exponentially large number) person to mention obamas assassination... i just don't see it happening unless he screws over the mob( wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what i mean, jack?)

[zaphrodesiac]

Well, thanks for that worthless answer.

You're welcome asshole, thanks for reading it. You probably got more intuition from that than wasting your time watching the debate. If I wanted to pick between two liberals, I'd forget that I can write in Paul. Now go vote for Obama you good little socialist fucktard. I'll remember you every time I get stopped at a checkpoint and be told "Papers please".

[Black_Sun]

you're the umpteenth (an exponentially large number) person to mention obamas assassination... i just don't see it happening unless he screws over the mob( wink, wink, nudge, nudge, know what i mean, jack?)
I think you underestimate some of the crazies who live in the deep south.

You know the guys who wear sheets and burn crosses? Those guys.

[BIG PIZZLE]

You're welcome asshole, thanks for reading it. You probably got more intuition from that than wasting your time watching the debate. If I wanted to pick between two liberals, I'd forget that I can write in Paul. Now go vote for Obama you good little socialist fucktard. I'll remember you every time I get stopped at a checkpoint and be told "Papers please".

You obviously havent been to an airport in the last 6 years.

[Lone Wolf]

You're welcome asshole, thanks for reading it. You probably got more intuition from that than wasting your time watching the debate. If I wanted to pick between two liberals, I'd forget that I can write in Paul. Now go vote for Obama you good little socialist fucktard. I'll remember you every time I get stopped at a checkpoint and be told "Papers please".

Oh you are cool. Rock on fag

[nuclearjew]

You obviously havent been to an airport in the last 6 years.
Dude, he flew to my 30th b-day Vegas bash!

[Lone Wolf]

This was a poorly moderated debate.

[willydong]

I think you underestimate some of the crazies who live in the deep south.

You know the guys who wear sheets and burn crosses? Those guys.
the klan? the klan? you're talking the klan? i mean really, the klan? THE klan? y'know, the klan?

[Mustard]

You're welcome asshole, thanks for reading it. You probably got more intuition from that than wasting your time watching the debate. If I wanted to pick between two liberals, I'd forget that I can write in Paul. Now go vote for Obama you good little socialist fucktard. I'll remember you every time I get stopped at a checkpoint and be told "Papers please".
I don't think that characterization is a fair one to make.

Barack Obama isn't startnig a Labor Party....

[zaphrodesiac]

Barack Obama isn't startnig a Labor Party....

Yeah, he is. Look at his education plan. "Work x amount of community service and get education free!"

Well, that sounds noble Senator Obama, but where is that money gonna come from?

[Mustard]

Yeah, he is. Look at his education plan. "Work x amount of community service and get education free!"

Well, that sounds noble Senator Obama, but where is that money gonna come from?
Doth thou haveth any proof of thine's accusation'th?

[zaphrodesiac]

Doth thou haveth any proof of thine's accusation'th?

sure!
Higher Education



Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.

[Claydon]

Yeah, he is. Look at his education plan. "Work x amount of community service and get education free!"

Well, that sounds noble Senator Obama, but where is that money gonna come from?

Obama is a big believer in wealth redistribution remember?

[mongo]

who gives a flying fuck? cubs/dodgers was on.

[zaphrodesiac]

Obama is a big believer in wealth redistribution remember?
He's about the working man!

[Mustard]

sure!
So I can work 100 hours of community service to get $4,000 worth of college education? Am I reading that right?

That comes out to 40 bucks an hour, AND I would be helping out the community.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. How is that bad?

[mongo]

So I can work 100 hours of community service to get $4,000 worth of college education? Am I reading that right?

That comes out to 40 bucks an hour, AND I would be helping out the community.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. How is that bad?

joe taxpayer is paying your fatass $30 per hour more than you deserve.

[Mustard]

joe taxpayer is paying your fatass $30 per hour more than you deserve.
Ok, granted. But with a better education, I can get a better job, make more money, make America a better place to live, and end up paying more taxes.

Did I miss anything?

[nuclearjew]

joe taxpayer is paying your fatass $30 per hour more than you deserve.
Good thing you're not Joe Taxpayer!

[Philip Lombard]

This was a poorly moderated debate.
And her shirt looked like a blanket for moving furniture.

[zaphrodesiac]

So I can work 100 hours of community service to get $4,000 worth of college education? Am I reading that right?

That comes out to 40 bucks an hour, AND I would be helping out the community.

I'm sorry, I just don't get it. How is that bad?

Well, for starters we have wayyyy too many people in the legal system who could be doing that besides sitting in jails spending our money. We have more incarcerated people per capita than necessary.

And to answer your question, which doesn't address the issue, with a question, who is paying the $40 an hour millions are going to be working Sink?

[Claydon]

Doth thou haveth any proof of thine's accusation'th?

don't tazer him bro!

[mongo]

Good thing you're not Joe Taxpayer!

correct. i'm tim, the student leech.

[nuclearjew]

Well, for starters we have wayyyy too many people in the legal system who could be doing that besides sitting in jails spending our money. We have more incarcerated people per capita than necessary in some areas.

And to answer your question, which doesn't address the issue, with a question, who is paying the $40 an hour millions are going to be working Sink?
Not you nor I, cuz we's po.

[TheImpossibleMan]

I think Biden obliterated Palin, though at least this wasn't a repeat of Couric (or, maybe it's too bad it wasn't a repeat, that would have been funny). Biden had the strongest moments by far and Palin looked completely out of her depth on about half of the issues. The closing statements really encapsulated the debate for me, Palin got to her talking points but rushed her delievery and then rambled about Obama, while Biden delievered his points with confidence and a great cadence. Palin regularly dodged questions and it was instantly obvious when she didn't have a real answer and was filling her time with broad, vague attacks on Obama and McCain. The "McCain voted the same way" responses and "our general in Afghanistan just said" bits were especially damning and crushing. Nevermind that Biden was right on the majority of the issues, he just ran circles around Palin. What a fucking joke she is.

[Mustard]

Well, for starters we have wayyyy too many people in the legal system who could be doing that besides sitting in jails spending our money. We have more incarcerated people per capita than necessary in some areas.
This is very true. and, we wouldn't have to pay them shit. I think we do this already, but we should certainly exploit incarcerated people more... they owe it to society, right?

And to answer your question, which doesn't address the issue, with a question, who is paying the $40 an hour millions are going to be working Sink?
Like Mongo said previously, and the answer I responded with in kind should suffice to address the question.

[Claydon]

the real issue that should be addressed, is Tim a card carrying member of the Log Cabin Republicans?

[BIG PIZZLE]

Fox news says 86% of the people say palin won.

[Debo]

Fox news says 86% of the people say palin won.

{{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?...


BIDEN
25% 34,397

PALIN

73% 99,019

NEITHER

2% 2,537

Total Votes: 135,953

[zaphrodesiac]

Fox news says 86% of the people say palin won.
Fox News is right wing, go figure.

[Mustard]

Shall I post the CNN and MSNBC polls? Perhaps the Democratic Undergound and Free Republic polls?

non-scientific polls are pretty much retarded, and partisan as hell.

[Debo]

Shall I post the CNN and MSNBC polls? Perhaps the Democratic Undergound and Free Republic polls?

non-scientific polls are pretty much retarded, and partisan as hell.

Just throwing out a different poll. CNN or MSNBC are fair. But the DU is a liberal wasteland.

[Mustard]

Just throwing out a different poll. CNN or MSNBC are fair. But the DU is a liberal wasteland.
Tell me about it... I, ME, cannot stand DU, if that tells you guys anything.

[Archetype]

Jack Layton.

[Mustard]

I wish Palin would Jack my Layton.

[taters]

As I said in another thread-
Shes being eaten alive on the debates.

Shes clearly been prepped, and every time a question that didnt hit iraq or afghanistan came up, she 'taglined' it, then asked to change the subject.

I have almost never pittied a republican woman or no, but she looks like a first year 1L who crammed the night before but only read every other chapter on the topic...Not that I was once one of those people....but IF I was and remember it, I would want pitty as well.

She got served like a flat of sliders on friday night at white castle after the bar closed with some chic you dont remember her name that wants you to buy her something but you aint no fucking coupon book plus shes not that hot and you arent even buzzed enough to find her that attractive and shes talking too much anyway so your thinking about kicking her out and generously giving her bus fair.

[Claydon]

As I said in another thread-
Shes being eaten alive on the debates.

Shes clearly been prepped, and every time a question that didnt hit iraq or afghanistan came up, she 'taglined' it, then asked to change the subject.

I have almost never pittied a republican woman or no, but she looks like a first year 1L who crammed the night before but only read every other chapter on the topic...Not that I was once one of those people....but IF I was and remember it, I would want pitty as well.

She got served like a flat of sliders on friday night at white castle after the bar closed with some chic you dont remember her name that wants you to buy her something but you aint no fucking coupon book plus shes not that hot and you arent even buzzed enough to find her that attractive and shes talking too much anyway so your thinking about kicking her out and generously giving her bus fair.

yyyyyyyyah, ummm, biden was such a hypocrite in this debate it was nauseating. He reversed himself so many times from all his bafoonery during the primary. As I indicated he was a wooden puppet on the leg of obama.

[Yelram]

As I said in another thread-
Shes being eaten alive on the debates.

Shes clearly been prepped, and every time a question that didnt hit iraq or afghanistan came up, she 'taglined' it, then asked to change the subject.

I have almost never pittied a republican woman or no, but she looks like a first year 1L who crammed the night before but only read every other chapter on the topic...Not that I was once one of those people....but IF I was and remember it, I would want pitty as well.

She got served like a flat of sliders on friday night at white castle after the bar closed with some chic you dont remember her name that wants you to buy her something but you aint no fucking coupon book plus shes not that hot and you arent even buzzed enough to find her that attractive and shes talking too much anyway so your thinking about kicking her out and generously giving her bus fair.

Truth spoken badly always sounds better than lies spoken well.

[Da Raider]

Well?

THE ESTABLISHMENT

[taters]

The polls already dont agree with you

[Claydon]

The polls already dont agree with you

would these be the same polls that said Obama won N.H. and Gore was winning in Florida?

[Da Raider]

VP DEBATES ARE MERELY CHUM FOR THE SHARKS. VP'S DO NOT WIN OR LOSE AN ELECTION. I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS CUZ IM YELLING CUZ IM DRUNK.

[Archetype]

Is Claydon defending Palin?

[taters]

would these be the same polls that said Obama won N.H. and Gore was winning in Florida?

Yea. The same polls that said Gore won Florida, before the Supreme Court redefined 'won'...and 'vote'....and 'decided'.

Not the Fox polls that said Bush would get 70% of the popular vote.

[Da Raider]

The best part of the debates, as always, is when the pundits trip all over themselves trying to make the most asinine, over the top, comments. Chris Matthews...are you listening?!

[Claydon]

Is Claydon defending Palin?

No, I am not. I think they are both awful choices.

[Da Raider]

No, I am not. I think they are both awful choices.


yeah, well your candidate selected her. He sold his fucking soul to get elected. Hope you are happy.

[Claydon]

yeah, well your candidate selected her. He sold his fucking soul to get elected. Hope you are happy.

And Biden reversed himself on everything he has spoken out for, then again Barry has changed his tune so many times its hard to know who his talking on that ticket. So, I hope you are happy.

[Kerjack]

I know its still early but interesting results for a fox news poll.

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n299/Vaun_Kerjack/Interestingearlyresults.jpg

[Debo]

yeah, well your candidate selected her. He sold his fucking soul to get elected. Hope you are happy.

Seriously? They all sellout to get elected. I don't think that this is debatable.

[zaphrodesiac]

yeah, well your candidate selected her. He sold his fucking soul to get elected. Hope you are happy.
I'm conflicted because I want to write in Paul, yet feel voting McCain would be voting the lesser of two evils. The answer is.....

Malt liquor

[Mustard]

I'm conflicted because I want to write in Paul, yet feel voting McCain would be voting the lesser of two evils. The answer is.....

Malt liquor
I think we all can agree this is the right call.

[TheImpossibleMan]

Seriously? They all sellout to get elected. I don't think that this is debatable.
Even....REAGAN???

[Da Raider]

And Biden reversed himself on everything he has spoken out for, then again Barry has changed his tune so many times its hard to know who his talking on that ticket. So, I hope you are happy.

why would I be happy about anything Biden does? I'm not a Dem. I support Ron Paul. A man with conviction.

[Kerjack]

I'm conflicted because I want to write in Paul, yet feel voting McCain would be voting the lesser of two evils. The answer is.....

Malt liquor

Funny I'm the same but reversed. I want to vote Paul but feel Obama would be the lesser of two evils.


How about we both vote Paul and walk away feeling good?

[heelsguy]

of course biden WON the debate, but considering he has beem doing this for 30 years, palin did well enought that CBS poll of undecideds said 21 % said she won it, and another 33% said it was a tie. so do the math

[Da Raider]

Biden has a floppier vagina.

[zaphrodesiac]

Funny I'm the same but reversed. I want to vote Paul but feel Obama would be the lesser of two evils.


How about we both vote Paul and walk away feeling good?

I don't feel good about either of them, but I'm going and I'll probably leave the decision to the day. Everything at this point is discouraging, always is.

[Da Raider]

RON PAUL!
RON PAUL!
RON PAUL!
RON PAUL!

[Satan]

I'm conflicted because I want to write in Paul, yet feel voting McCain would be voting the lesser of two evils. The answer is.....

Malt liquorI can get behind that kind of political thinking

[mongo]

i'm probably gonna get drunk before i go vote. should make things more exciting.

[mongo]

I can get behind that kind of political thinking

you'll get behind anything w/ a dick.

[Kerjack]

To four years of malt liquor *clicks glass* *buys stock*

[Satan]

i'm probably gonna get drunk before i go vote. should make things more exciting.You'll end up fucking the skinny grandma that makes you write your name on the line.

[mongo]

You'll end up fucking the skinny grandma that makes you write your name on the line.

and what's wrong w/ that? at least it's a chick.

[Satan]

you'll get behind anything w/ a dick.And you get in front of anything with a dick, and promptly bend over.

[Yelram]

Funny I'm the same but reversed. I want to vote Paul but feel Obama would be the lesser of two evils.


How about we both vote Paul and walk away feeling good?
Pauls percentage for Montana just went up 2%. Too bad you dont live in a swing state where your vote would actually matter

[Debo]

Even....REAGAN???

At some point, sure. Given that we have two parties, they are both made up of large groups that have different interests. In order to win their votes, you must pander to them on some level. If you don't do this, you aren't going to win an election.

[Kerjack]

Paul took second in our first primary. Mitt came out number one

[zaphrodesiac]

To four years of malt liquor *clicks glass* *buys stock*
WE CAN MAKE IT CHEAPER! WE CAN MAKE IT BETTER!

We can do community service every day so we can have 2 40oz's of it!

[Da Raider]

WE CAN MAKE IT CHEAPER! WE CAN MAKE IT BETTER!

Don't buy that crappy cheaper Japanese Malt Liquor! It's unAmerican!

[zaphrodesiac]

I'll spend my 40oz money any way I want, once I'm doing community service to justify my life of drinking and picking up some trash.

Oh wait, I'm educated and employed. Guess it's my responsibility to pay for the idiots.

[Satan]

Don't buy that crappy cheaper Japanese Malt Liquor! It's unAmerican!
Freedom Beer FTW

[Deadhead Derek]

Biden kept his shit together, didn't ramble much. Palin didn't hurt herself, but didn't say a fucking thing. her statement of 'say it aint so, there you go again ....going to the past..." when the statement she made was about Joe Dimaggio and Ronald Reagan. what horseshit.

Biden misspoke once and a while, Palin didn't answer questions and that was annoying....

"What color is the sky?"
Glad you ask me, energy, like I deal with in Alaska....."

C'mon. K.B. Hutchinson would have been sch a better choice. I think we should let Alaska leave the union after all.

[taters]

A vote for Ron paul is....well, you may as well write 'tater' in because it will amount to the same ends.

[Kerjack]

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n299/Vaun_Kerjack/Haha.jpg

I wonder if fox news has been broadcasting these numbers so far?

[Deadhead Derek]

of course biden WON the debate, but considering he has beem doing this for 30 years, palin did well enought that CBS poll of undecideds said 21 % said she won it, and another 33% said it was a tie. so do the math
ok, tie equals 1/2, so, 16.5 % plus 21% = 37.5 % .... you were saying?

[Pox]

And Biden reversed himself on everything he has spoken out for, then again Barry has changed his tune so many times its hard to know who his talking on that ticket. So, I hope you are happy.


Isn't Palin the type of bible-thumping retard you supposedly hate?

She got her fudge packed tonight. Royally. She had no idea what she was talking about most of the time, and when she did you could tell they were answers her handlers had made her repeat a thousand times for prep.

This woman sucks a fat dick. Booo.

[Rover]

Palin won. Simply, because her expectations were so low. Debates are meaningless. Biden made several mistakes. He confused Article I and Article II of the Constitution, which wasn't necessary, but Biden has to prove how smart he is. Biden got lost in Senate speak. He was throwing out numbers and votes and trying to explain voting against and for something.

I will guarantee that everyone watching the debate understood every single word and policy position that Palin presented. That wasn't the case with Biden. He was lost several times in the legislative weeds. That isn't to say he doesn't understand what he's talking about, but that normal people don't. I have no doubt that Biden knows policy, but he came across as the guy who tries to be the smartest person in the room.

Palin only struggled with the "What does the VP do question?" She didn't clearly explain whether she would focus more on the Legislative side or Executive side. I can understand the confusion because I've argued (even here) that the office of VP is legislative in nature with some limited executive branch responsibilities.

On the flipside, this is where Biden decided that he would confuse Articles of the Constitution. Karl Rove had a list of misstatements that Biden made, I don't remember them all offhand, but I'm sure they'll be out there by tomorrow.

The one other part that Biden did that was sort of confusing to me was when he said that he'd "...be in the room for every decision Obama has to make..." That is sort of paraphrasing, but that didn't exactly strike me as being confident in the ability of Obama to make decisions.

There is nothing more silly than judging debate winners by internet insta-polling. Ron Paul would win this debate if there were a category to vote for him. Instant internet polling is meaningless. So is text message voting.

[Pox]

Its nice when you're expecting someone to come off as a total retard, and instead they come off as a yammering, preprogrammed ditz.

Its even better when they're running for vice president!

[Kerjack]

LOLBCOTI!

(Laughing Out Loud But Crying On The Inside)

[Nosebuckle]

Palin and Biden could have both stood up, undressed, and started fucking on the debate table while shouting "death to America" and it wouldn't make a lick of difference in the administrations of Obama or McCain. VP debates don't matter shit.

[p-air]

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v344/113/93/523351407/n523351407_1295485_6820.jpg

[Oggie]

Where's the Pizzle option?

[Mustard]

Palin won. Simply, because her expectations were so low. Debates are meaningless. Biden made several mistakes. He confused Article I and Article II of the Constitution, which wasn't necessary, but Biden has to prove how smart he is. Biden got lost in Senate speak. He was throwing out numbers and votes and trying to explain voting against and for something.

I will guarantee that everyone watching the debate understood every single word and policy position that Palin presented. That wasn't the case with Biden. He was lost several times in the legislative weeds. That isn't to say he doesn't understand what he's talking about, but that normal people don't. I have no doubt that Biden knows policy, but he came across as the guy who tries to be the smartest person in the room.

Palin only struggled with the "What does the VP do question?" She didn't clearly explain whether she would focus more on the Legislative side or Executive side. I can understand the confusion because I've argued (even here) that the office of VP is legislative in nature with some limited executive branch responsibilities.

On the flipside, this is where Biden decided that he would confuse Articles of the Constitution. Karl Rove had a list of misstatements that Biden made, I don't remember them all offhand, but I'm sure they'll be out there by tomorrow.

The one other part that Biden did that was sort of confusing to me was when he said that he'd "...be in the room for every decision Obama has to make..." That is sort of paraphrasing, but that didn't exactly strike me as being confident in the ability of Obama to make decisions.

There is nothing more silly than judging debate winners by internet insta-polling. Ron Paul would win this debate if there were a category to vote for him. Instant internet polling is meaningless. So is text message voting.
Apparently then, if you're correct, at least 34 GMFers who watched the debate all had a massive episode of delusional hallucinations, including me. Thats kinda funny for me, as I scored the first debate a tie between Obama and McCain, so clearly this has to be all partisan voting, right?

In addition, your statement that "Palin won. Simply, because her expectations were so low." is so cliché and debunked that its borderline retarded to dignify with a comment and respond to with any level of seriousness, because if this is what the Palin apologists are running to to stick up for their gal, then surely all is lost for your cause.

To put it aptly, sure, a team can be a "winner" and have a "moral victory" win when they beat the point spread, but that doesn't mean they won the actual game. This is the case with Sarah Palin tonight. She beat the point spread, and did better than everyone gave her credit for, but she still lost. And apparently people agree here on GMF to the tune of a 7 to 2 ratio, a place you come to to chat about this and that on a regular basis enough to make me think that you respect the people of this board enough to give them credit to make decisions for themselves.

[mongo]

more like v-pee!

[dadaelus]

Where's the Pizzle option?
There are some lists he does not want to be on...

[Kerjack]

Apparently then, if you're correct, at least 34 GMFers who watched the debate all had a massive episode of delusional hallucinations, including me. Thats kinda funny for me, as I scored the first debate a tie between Obama and McCain, so clearly this has to be all partisan voting, right?

And everybody with an internet connection. As illustrated by the polls so far.

MSNBC: Biden 78.8% }{ Palin 18.8%
CNN: Biden 70% }{ Palin 26%
Fox: Biden 61% }{ Palin 39%
GMF: Biden 77% }{ Palin22%

[Rover]

To put it aptly, sure, a team can be a "winner" and have a "moral victory" win when they beat the point spread, but that doesn't mean they won the actual game. This is the case with Sarah Palin tonight. She beat the point spread, and did better than everyone gave her credit for, but she still lost. And apparently people agree here on GMF to the tune of a 7 to 2 ratio, a place you come to to chat about this and that on a regular basis enough to make me think that you respect the people of this board enough to give them credit to make decisions for themselves.Although I didn't mention it specificially, I was talking about the Drudge, CNN, Foxnews polls. Campaigns try to outvote each other on those things. Ron Paul was winning GOP primary debates. Paul would answer 3 questions a debate and win. Those things are rigged. Also, the votes are going to lean whatever way the audience leans.

The GMF poll is above reproach, and would never be influenced by partisan politics.

[bpb]

GMF polls never lie.

[Mustard]

The GMF poll is above reproach, and would never be influenced by partisan politics.
Well, as long as we agree on this, then I believe everything will be just fine then.

[Kerjack]

Also, the votes are going to lean whatever way the audience leans.

See that is the funny thing, even the fox poll has her losing.

[Axel]

Fox: Biden 61% }{ Palin 39%If even the most objective media ever assessed that she lost in a debate, than it might be true.

[ADD]

Palin is awful, has been awful and just has no clue. If somehow old balls wins, and dies, we're fucked (and not in a good way)

[Rover]

See that is the funny thing, even the fox poll has her losing.Fox's audience skews:
39% Republican
33% Democrat
28% Independent
(I know this because they've been running promos highlighting this fact from an independent polling group...Pew I think)

Palin has 15-20% more than any other poll you listed on the Fox poll. That's where the audience bias is going to be present. As a side note, the same audience skewing poll showed that both CNN and MSNBC were 51% Democrat and 18% Republican. So you can see the bias there.

I feel like an idiot discussing these polls because they're meaningless. Drudge's poll is:
69% Palin
29% Biden.

What does this mean?

[The GWD]

Palin embodied everything I hate about politicians in her response about gay marriage. Going on about how she loves gay people, but doesn't think they deserve the same rights as her.

At least Biden was straightforward in his love of the gays.

[taters]

Fox's audience skews:
39% Republican
33% Democrat
28% Independent
(I know this because they've been running promos highlighting this fact from an independent polling group...Pew I think)

Palin has 15-20% more than any other poll you listed on the Fox poll. That's where the audience bias is going to be present. As a side note, the same audience skewing poll showed that both CNN and MSNBC were 51% Democrat and 18% Republican. So you can see the bias there.

Also - Drudge report is notoriously conservative. Its creator even admitted as much.

I feel like an idiot discussing these polls because they're meaningless. Drudge's poll is:
69% Palin
29% Biden.

What does this mean?

Odd that they claim 33% of their audience is democratic, because I havent met a democrat that claimed they watched Fox in 9 years. Also, the drudge report is notoriously conservative. Its creator even admitted as much.

[Kerjack]

What does this mean?


?

[URFloorMatt]

Palin refused to answer several questions so that she could parrot old talking points, presumably because she could only cram so many in a few weeks worth of prep. At least Biden had talking points ready for all of the moderator's questions.

I give it to Biden. I watched on CNN, and he also seemed to connect more with the dial voters. Interestingly, he also connected much better with women than Palin did.

The expectations game is a fool's errand. No one outside the media elite and high-information voters care about the expectations game, and none of their opinions will affect the average viewer's perception of the debate. Especially since most people watch the debate in a group and have already coalesced their views before the debate is over.

[CarsyCarsten]

They are the giant douche and the turd sandwich, tough Biden in my view is not as stupid as Palin.

The Problem is.. I can't really tell who won that debate, but someone, who already said that

a) Jesus wants the Irak-War
b) Dinosaurs were here 4000 years ago
c) he knows about foreign policy because he lives close to another countrys Ice-Desert.
d) Gay people can be cured from being gay
e)...
f)...
......

can only be plain stupid.

Someone who already said things like that in public couldn't even become Major in town of 500 people in the rest of the civilized world (except italy) - and she is running for Vize-President of US and A?

lol, you guys are really fucked if McCain wins and dies of... well take a pick.

So it does not matter who won this debate, because impartial they both are stupid, but Biden is not as stupid. They both were equally prepared for that debate, but thats all.

PS: Oh, and when I hear things like "blablabla when McCain said the ECONOMY was stable, he ment all the fine American Workers WHO ARE THE BEST IN THE WORLD, and the people who scratched the roadkilled squirrels from the streets, they are THE BEST IN THE WORLD, MAVERICK MAVERICK BEST IN THE WORLD!" again ... I mean... really? Thats what he ment? And when he said he doesn't know shit about economy, he ment, that words cant describe the american economists, because they are the best in the world?

lol

I really think positive about your patriotism, and I think especially Germany could get a piece of that, but seriously.. at some point it just becomes ridicolous..

I really can imagine the pissed of American Worker who wants to hear answers from the candidates about the problems that effect his life, and then is happy and can't stop jerking off in front of the TV as soon as they just tell him again, that he is part of the best toilet cleaning service in the world! USA! USA!

Well.. that probably pissed some of you off.. but it's true though ^^

(oh yeah, my english sucks, sorry for that)

[heelsguy]

Palin is awful, has been awful and just has no clue. If somehow old balls wins, and dies, we're fucked (and not in a good way)

you're just pissed about your cubbies! what fan are you going to blame for that loss? picked anyone yet?


Palin--as sink said--"beat the spread". She connected on a personal level with the viewer. Biden was squinting sideways at the camera and smiled a little too much at all the most inappropriate times, lending him a condescending attitiude.

I personally like Biden, but he is a typical washington politician: saying one thing and then completely changing his tune when it is advantagous to do so. You cannot call your opponent "too inexperienced", and that you would never consider being Vice President...and then 2 months later, agree to be that same person's running mate.

Finally, considering Biden was in the Senate when Palin was in the 2nd grade, he did not win the debate by a huge margin.

[vasili denisov]

The media always play up the debates as if 1) they drastically change the movement of a campaign 2) the candidates can radically transform themselves for these spectacles and "turn it around" or "do what needs to be done". The horrible credit mess, and McCain's awful reaction to it had a greater impact than last week's debate on the course of the race.

Palin is an ambitious, and canny, speaker utterly lacking in analytical ability, and she won't acquire that with a few weeks of cramming, if ever. She didn't give any opportunities for people to laugh at obvious mistakes, but her intellectual liabilities were as obvious as they've ever been. She didn't pull in any independents, and her base, which anyway viewed the last few interviews as liberal media blindsiding, she "kept". Those steadily drawn to Obama, out of desperation or genuine interest, weren't given any repulsive behaviour by Biden to push them away. So, I'd say, he won this; but at this point, I think the McCain campaign is mortally wounded, so there was no point if Palin had come anywhere close to winning this.

[Archangel]

So the retard actually managed two consecutive coherent sentences, and thus won?

[TheImpossibleMan]

CNN is reporting that Biden won

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.poll/index.html

[Debo]

Palin embodied everything I hate about politicians in her response about gay marriage. Going on about how she loves gay people, but doesn't think they deserve the same rights as her.

At least Biden was straightforward in his love of the gays.

And he agreed with Palin that they shouldn't be allowed to marry. What does that say about him?

[fuldstændigamok]

Does all this really matter? Because, quite honestly, there is absolutely zero chances on earth that McCain/retardator will win these elections, is it?

[TheImpossibleMan]

Serpentor/Starscream '08!

[Desperado]

CNN is reporting that Biden won

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.poll/index.html


As it is has been said here multiple times before... Palins only success last night was not fucking up and for some that is the only thing they needed to rally behind her(grats Yelram). Its been a horrible week for McCains camp, first Palin gets exposed for the beauty queen idiot she really is. Then McCain pulls out of Michigan and its really showing that even thought we ridicule polls, the campaigns use them to help make their decisions.

[Morfin]

And he agreed with Palin that they shouldn't be allowed to marry. What does that say about him?

It says that he is almost as bad as those like Palin who believe that gays can be cured. It says that while we in America have come to the point where politicians can publicly say that they support gays, that gays should have civil rights, we have not yet gotten to the point where politicians feel comfortable saying that they should have all the same rights as married heterosexuals. I believe gays should have those same rights, but if I were in Biden's shoes, I don't know that I would risk the potential political fallout of taking that view, or give McCain, who appears to be behind, some sort of rallying cry to unite conservatives and moderate conservatives. Yes, it would be a sell-out on my part. Maybe that is how Biden feels.

[Desperado]

Does all this really matter? Because, quite honestly, there is absolutely zero chances on earth that McCain/retardator will win these elections, is it?

Right now there are still some toss up states like Florida/Ohio that could tip the scales, if McCains numbers keep dropping Obama will have a huge advantage.

[VoxAngelikus]

I'm not reading all six pages before my post, so if I am repeating stuff that's already said... I don't give a fuck!

I voted for O'Biden because... Oh, sorry... I mean Biden, because he simply knew so much more and was able to actually answer the questions. However, this felt like a contest of bullshit - as in who can bullshit the best? Palin frequently didn't answer questions directly and she was a little sickenin' with her good-ol'-sittin'-down-talkin'-to-America-straght accent. This isn't a debate for VP of your town council, it's for VP of the United State of America. Don't pander to me and try to act like you're all cute and a good ol' girl because really, I don't know too much about you.

Across the stage, however, Biden was only impressive in that he was able to elucidate his answers in a more professional manner. Beyond that there were also a lot of non-answers and waffle.

I was unimpressed by both Palin and O'Biden.

[VoxAngelikus]

Its nice when you're expecting someone to come off as a total retard, and instead they come off as a yammering, preprogrammed ditz.

Its even better when they're running for vice president!



I'd like to quote this for all the people who actually think Sarah Palin was the better debater last night. She wasn't a failure, but damn she reeked of other people's opinions.

[Smokestack]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/images/2008/10/03/palinflow.jpg (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/03/palinflow.jpg)

[}{arlequin]

http://dorkiphus.net/porsche/attachment.php?attachmentid=14820&stc=1&d=1222999719

tinypic'd just in case:
http://i36.tinypic.com/15s3atu.jpg

[fuldstændigamok]

???
Funny?
Invisible?

STUPID NOOB!

[ADD]

you're just pissed about your cubbies! what fan are you going to blame for that loss? picked anyone yet?


Palin--as sink said--"beat the spread". She connected on a personal level with the viewer. Biden was squinting sideways at the camera and smiled a little too much at all the most inappropriate times, lending him a condescending attitiude.

I personally like Biden, but he is a typical washington politician: saying one thing and then completely changing his tune when it is advantagous to do so. You cannot call your opponent "too inexperienced", and that you would never consider being Vice President...and then 2 months later, agree to be that same person's running mate.

Finally, considering Biden was in the Senate when Palin was in the 2nd grade, he did not win the debate by a huge margin.


I don't blame anyone but the players.

And if Palin's goal is to "connect with the people" by being a giant and complete retard, mission accomplish, and this nation is then full of retards. She beats around the bush, spews bullshit and can't answer a fucking question. She's a boob (*waits for boobs comments*)

[nickadams]

Biden came off like he's been doing this his whole life (as he should have) and Palin came of like the Rocky underdog somebody mentioned earlier. This was as benign a debate as we're ever going to witness. Picking a winner here is like deciding if it Tastes Great or is Less Filling. (Fucking tastes great).

I think the real loser (besides we, the American people and Ron Paul) is Biden, who's ego takes a right hook every time he has to shill for Obama. I seriously thought I saw him wince a few times.

[freegood]

And he agreed with Palin that they shouldn't be allowed to marry. What does that say about him?

That Democrats won't step on the wedge issue between the religious and civic aspects of marriage.

[Desperado]

I seriously thought I saw him wince a few times.

I think that if you saw a wince, it was probably his reaction upon hearing Palin's pronunciation of Nucular.

[Debo]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

[Rover]

That Democrats won't step on the wedge issue between the religious and civic aspects of marriage.Thank god the Democrats aren't going to legislate religious practices.

[VoxAngelikus]

I think that if you saw a wince, it was probably his reaction upon hearing Palin's pronunciation of Nucular.

Seriously, I think 8 years of "nucular" has been more than enough for me.

[Smokestack]

The Odd Lies Of Sarah Palin XVI: Divestment From Sudan (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/the-odd-lies--2.html)

03 Oct 2008 04:26 pm
She really does just make things up (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5948944&page=1). In last night's debate she said:"When I and others in the legislature found out that we had some millions of dollars [of Permanent Fund investments] in Sudan, we called for divestment through legislation of those dollars."
Yep: you guessed it:A search of news clips and transcripts from the time do not turn up an instance in which Palin mentioned the Sudanese crisis or concerns about Alaska's investments tied to the ruling regime. Moreover, Palin's administration openly opposed the bill, and stated its opposition in a public hearing on the measure.

"The legislation is well-intended, and the desire to make a difference is noble, but mixing moral and political agendas at the expense of our citizens' financial security is not a good combination," testified Brian Andrews, Palin's deputy treasury commissioner, before a hearing on the Gara-Lynn Sudan divestment bill in February. Minutes from the meeting are posted online by the legislature.

Gara says the lack of support from Palin's administration helped kill the measure.

"I walked out of that hearing livid," Gara recalled of the February meeting. Because of the Palin administration's opposition to the bill, "We could not get a vote in that committee," he explained.

[Axel]

Palin--as sink said--"beat the spread". She connected on a personal level with the viewer. Biden was squinting sideways at the camera and smiled a little too much at all the most inappropriate times, lending him a condescending attitiude.By your opinion US voters should pick the one who can pose better?

Haven’t you gotten bored by a poser acting that he’s running USA for the last 8 years?

[freegood]

She connected on a personal level with the viewer. Biden was squinting sideways at the camera and smiled a little too much at all the most inappropriate times, lending him a condescending attitiude.


I climaxed right when she winked at the camera.

Coincidence? I think not.

[Archangel]

Seriously, I think 8 years of "nucular" has been more than enough for me.

You, and 6 1/2 billion other people.

[freegood]

Thank god the Democrats aren't going to legislate religious practices.

If that's up your alley, Obama had a meeting with different religious leaders and it turned out all right.

I don't think he'll "persecute" religion like some Christians feel against liberals, and at least he won't cynically exploit religion as much as Bush did.

[heelsguy]

Seriously, I think 8 years of "nucular" has been more than enough for me.

so what? jimmy carter was a nuclear engineer while in the navy...but HE could not say the word either.

let..it..go

[kid_vidrio]

i gotta agree with all that. new clear. nook you lear. nuclear. whatever. that shit is radioactive.
let it go!

[Claydon]

Both of these people were so controlled by the campaign's handlers. Biden was a wood puppet sitting on the knee of obama basically regurgitating obama's tripe, and Palin was so rigid in her speaking because of McCain's people that no substance really came of this show.

Biden CONSTANTLY contradicted everything he said in the primary it was rather pathetic, and Palin kind of moaned on about things she didn't get.

Oh and some of the questions though hard hitting were gay, because you know both of them were not going to touch these issues. The Sudan question was a prime example, neither one of them want to talk about the real issue with Sudan, the chinese. We wouldn't want to cut the government off from its source of cash to pay our debt would we?

QFT

[VoxAngelikus]

so what? jimmy carter was a nuclear engineer while in the navy...but HE could not say the word either.

let..it..go


Sorry if it makes no difference to you, or to other people, but to me, not being able to pronounce a simple word makes Bush, Palin, Carter, or anyone else, come off sounding silly. I wince every time I hear "NOO-KYOO-LAR" because that IS NOT HOW THE FUCKING WORD IS PRONOUNCED!!!

Being President, or Vice President, requires a lot of public speaking. If you do it poorly, you look bad. Just like if I were a journalist and I constantly misspelled a certain word or used improper English - I would look bad and sound unprofessional. I think holding the leader of my country to a higher standard, even in trivial matters, is no small favor.

Shit, don't even get me started on McCain and Palin's butchering of Ahmadinejad's name. I guess I should also let go the fact that neither one of them can pronounce the names of world leaders?

[Pax Britannia]

This poll needs a draw option.

[freegood]

WTF

Did Claydon just reply to his own quote with a pathetic endorsement?

[dadaelus]

This poll needs a draw option.
No sitting on the fence.

[Pax Britannia]

No sitting on the fence.

Then I guess i'll have to vote for Palin. If you believe the democrats and liberal media Biden should have destroyed her in this debate with his awesome experience but he utterly failed to do that. All Palin had to do was not come across as a jibbering wreck and she acheived that.

Tactical victory for Palin.

[VoxAngelikus]

Claydon's neck must hurt from sucking his own cock so much?

[freegood]

He must've removed some of his ribs to make it possible for him.

[Hanover Fist]

Biden made several mistakes during the debate, one about the US kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon and the other about where he said that Obama never said that he would meet with Ahmandinejad.
Then he also stated that he opposed the elections in the West Bank along with Obama because it would legitimize Hamas. Ummm, hello Joe that wasn't the West Bank, that was Gaza. Of course his or Obamas name weren't on the Bi-partisan Talent/Nelson letter to President Bush that was signed by 73 other members of Congress opposing barring terrorist organizations from participating in Palestinian elections.

For all that supposed foreign policy expertise, Joe Biden sure is a fuck up.

[Pharon]

Biden made several mistakes during the debate, one about the US kicking Hezbollah out of Lebanon and the other about where he said that Obama never mentioned Ahmandinejad by name.
Obama never said he'd meet with Ahmandinejad. This is what he said (during the YouTube debate last summer):

Moderator: Would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?”…

Mr. Obama: I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them — which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration - is ridiculous.”
And frankly, if you're going to meet with the leaders in Iran to talk about nuclear stuff, Ahmandinejad isn't the guy anyway, since he has no power over them or the Iranian military.

Then he also stated that he opposed the elections in the West Bank along with Obama because it would legitimize Hamas. Ummm, hello Joe that wasn't the West Bank, that was Gaza.
Actually, it was both. The election happened in 2006, before the West Bank and Gaza split up.

[Hanover Fist]

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTVhMThlNjRkZGFlMmUwOWFkNDZkZjk0MzBiY2JiYmY

The Biden Error/Lie/Hallucination List (UPDATED to 22)

Below, you’ll find a list of 14 “lies” Biden told last night, distributed by the McCain campaign. I’d just note two observations: first, when you tell stories of things that didn’t happen with the frequency of Joe Biden, coupled with his fervent belief of these untrue and inaccurate statements, I don’t think “lie” is the appropriate term. “Hallucinations” seems more accurate, I think. Second, they missed a bunch, so Biden’s list of li- er, hallucinations is well beyond 14.

THE CONSTITUTION: Biden: "Vice President Cheney's been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history. He has — he has — the idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the executive — he works in the executive branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that."

As noted by the McCain Camp, Article I of the Constitution does not, in fact, define the role of the Vice President of the United States. It defines the role of the legislative branch, otherwise known as the branch in which Joe Biden has served for the last 36 years.

[A reader writes in noting that Article I does mention the veep at one point — "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided." However, by describing the veep's role in the legislature, it doesn't really help Biden's claim that it "defines the role, that's the executive, he works in the executive branch."]

IRAQ-AFGHANISTAN SPENDING: Biden said that the U.S. spends more in Iraq in one month than it has in Afghanistan in six or seven years.

That figure is off by 2000 percent.

‘KICKED HEZBOLLAH OUT OF LEBANON’: Biden: When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said, and Barack said, ‘Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t know — if you don’t, Hezbollah will control it.”

Reuters thinks he meant to refer to Syria, but I still don't think it would be accurate to say the U.S. kicked Syria out of Lebanon. The Lebanese kicked Syria out of Lebanon.

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN ACT: Biden's statement that McCain voted against the Violence Against Women Act is accurate. But as Robert Byers notes, the Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Morrison, the Court ruled that much of Biden's law was an unconstitutional power grab by Congress of rights reserved to the states. Nobody voted against the WAWA because they support violence against women; they objected over constiutional concerns that a Supreme Court majority validated.

The McCain camp's list fourteen lies/hallucinations can be found here.

UPDATE: As I suspected, there are others.

RESTAURANT: "Look, all you have to do is go down Union Street with me in Wilmington or go to Katie's Restaurant or walk into Home Depot with me where I spend a lot of time and you ask anybody in there whether or not the economic and foreign policy of this administration has made them better off in the last eight years."

According to this Delaware site, Katie's Restaurant is no longer in business; locals remember it on Union Street 25 to 30 years ago.

ARMS CONTROL TREATY: Biden: "Number two, with regard to arms control and weapons, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime. John McCain voted against a Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty that every Republican has supported."

I have no idea where Biden gets this "every Republican has supported" claim, as 49 other Republican senators voted 'no' with McCain.

When the roll was finally called on October 13, the resolution to ratify the CTBT (including the six safeguards that Daschle had submitted as an amendment) was defeated by a 51-48 vote with one abstention. (See the voting record.) Forty-four Democrats voted for ratification as did four Republicans: John Chafee (R-RI), James Jeffords (R-VT), Gordon Smith (R-OR) and Arlen Specter (R-PA). Fifty Republican senators and one independent (Robert Smith of New Hampshire) voted against ratification, and Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) voted "present." The treaty fell 19 votes short of achieving the necessary two-thirds majority necessary for ratification.

WEST BANK ELECTIONS: Biden: President Bush insisted on elections in the West Bank, when I said, and others said, and Barack Obama said, 'Big mistake. Hamas will win. You'll legitimize them.'"

The Washington Post's Glenn Kessler notes that "Obama had been a senator for only a few days when the election took place, but if he made such statements, they did not appear in news reports or transcripts that are contained in the Nexis or Factiva databases."

PAKISTANI WEAPONS: "Pakistan already has nuclear weapons. Pakistan already has deployed nuclear weapons. Pakistan's weapons can already hit Israel and the Mediterranean."

I won't quite chalk this up as a lie/hallucination, but Biden is on shaky ground here. (See below.) The distance between Israel and Pakistan is 2,085 miles, or 3355 kilometers. The longest-range existing strategic missile in the Pakistani arsenal has a range of 3000 kilometers, but it might have longer range with a lighter payload. (But how much can you lighten a nuclear payload?) They are working on developing longer-range missiles; maybe Biden knows of some development that public sources do not yet know about. Theoretically, the Pakistanis could put the weapon on a boat and then sail it to the target, but by that standard, any site on a coast in the world is within their range.

ANOTHER UPDATE: This site indicates that the top range of Pakistani missile that can carry a nuclear warhead is 1000 miles. By being off by 1,000 or so, I'm now upgrading this to full lie/error/hallucination status.

[Pharon]

Was that supposed to be a refutation to my points? If so, you're gonna have to elaborate.

THE CONSTITUTION: Biden: "Vice President Cheney's been the most dangerous vice president we've had probably in American history. He has — he has — the idea he doesn't realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that's the executive — he works in the executive branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that."

As noted by the McCain Camp, Article I of the Constitution does not, in fact, define the role of the Vice President of the United States. It defines the role of the legislative branch, otherwise known as the branch in which Joe Biden has served for the last 36 years.

[A reader writes in noting that Article I does mention the veep at one point — "The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided." However, by describing the veep's role in the legislature, it doesn't really help Biden's claim that it "defines the role, that's the executive, he works in the executive branch."]
Yes, Article I is about the Legislature. But at least Biden answered the question, which was whether or not he agreed with Cheney's (absurd) remarks that the Vice President is a member of the Legislative Branch and not the Executive Branch. Here's how Palin answered the question:

Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also.
What the fuck does that all even mean?

WEST BANK ELECTIONS: Biden: President Bush insisted on elections in the West Bank, when I said, and others said, and Barack Obama said, 'Big mistake. Hamas will win. You'll legitimize them.'"

The Washington Post's Glenn Kessler notes that "Obama had been a senator for only a few days when the election took place, but if he made such statements, they did not appear in news reports or transcripts that are contained in the Nexis or Factiva databases."
Don't see anything here about them complaining it was Gaza, and not the West Bank. As I said before, it was actually both.

[freegood]

Biden is s'posed to know better. We're talkin bout Biden, not Palin....

Because if Republicans try to focus something positive about their own candidates, they're fucked.

[bpb]

http://i33.tinypic.com/r8tb11.jpg

[DeMartini Sands]

Seriously do you republicans really want this woman potentially being the commander and chief of our country????????

[Archangel]

Seriously, do you think anyone takes you seriously when you type like a 12-year-old retard? GTFB to Running Threads.

[Pollo]

Seriously, do you think anyone takes you seriously when you type like a 12-year-old retard? GTFB to Running Threads.

is it possible for ElvisWong to have two dupe accounts or is this all a coincidence?

[Morfin]

http://i33.tinypic.com/r8tb11.jpg

Seriously do you republicans really want this woman potentially being the commander and chief of our country????????

Tina Fey? She'd do a better job than Palin.