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Mustard
10-11-2008, 08:34 PM
Link to article here. (http://harpers.org/archive/2008/10/hbc-90003672)

DOJ Goes Long for Sarah Palin

By Scott Horton (http://harpers.org/subjects/ScottHorton)
We will all be able to sleep more soundly tonight knowing that a serious criminal has been apprehended. The Associated Press reports: (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/palin-email-hack-man-indi_n_132902.html)
David Kernell, 20, of Knoxville, Tenn. entered the plea in federal court in Knoxville, the same day prosecutors unsealed an indictment charging him with intentionally accessing Palin’s e-mail account without authorization. Kernell, an economics student at the University of Tennessee, was brought into court wearing handcuffs and shackles on his ankles.
He was released without posting bond, but the court forbade him from owning a computer and limited his Internet use to checking e-mail and doing class work.
The hearing follows a massive deployment of FBI and Secret Service agents and prosecutors to identify the culprit who hacked into Palin’s email account, removed a series of her communications and published them on the internet.

As Orin Kerr explains here (http://volokh.com/posts/1221704175.shtml), hacking someone’s email account and making use of the information gained is a crime; it may either be a felony or a misdemeanor, depending upon the hacker’s intentions. And here’s the rub. In order to dramatize the case and get a felony indictment, the prosecutors needed to allege that it was “committed in furtherance of a criminal or tortuous” act. Here’s Prof. Kerr, again on the case: (http://volokh.com/posts/1223484862.shtml)
Oddly, though, the indictment doesn’t exactly state what the crime or tort is that the intrusion was designed to further. It just states that the intrusion was “in furtherance of the commission of a criminal act in violation of the laws of the United States, including 18 U.S.C. Section 2701 and 18 U.S.C. Section l030(a)(2)” But Section 2701 and Section 1030 are the intrusion statutes themselves! It makes no sense to allow a felony enhancement for a crime committed in furtherance of the crime itself; presumably the enhancement is only for intrusions committed in furtherance of some other crime. Otherwise the felony enhancement is meaningless, as every misdemeanor becomes a felony.
Orin considers the indictment and the prosecutor’s case to be fatally flawed. Orin’s obviously right about this. I’d put the likelihood that the prosecutors will secure a conviction on a felony charge at right about zero–unless, of course, they get a jury that would convict a ham sandwich, as can be found often enough. What motivates this prosecutorial overreaching?

Cyber crimes are rampant in America today. Frequently they involve theft of identity metrics used to tap the victim’s credit. As I reviewed in a recent piece for the BBC, however, the Department of Justice has allocated few resources to investigate these crimes except in very large scale and systematic cases—that is crimes in which there is a clear criminal purpose and a clear victim, and tens of millions at stake. Generally the Department has not acted in cases in which the result of the intrusion is merely to embarrass the target, for a fairly obvious reason. At best we’re only talking about a misdemeanor. The Palin email hacking case quite plainly falls into this category. So what is going on?

The Justice Department seems to be setting one of its amazing new rules. When a Republican political figure is damaged in her expectation of being elected to office, it is telling us, that’s a felony. And why is that the case here? Because the hacker helped establish something important: Sarah Palin has been systematically violating the Open Records Act. As David Corn has noted at Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/10/10122_palins_email_cover-up_open_records_act.html), Palin relied heavily on private email accounts for improper purposes. As governor of Alaska, she was obligated to maintain as public records her communications with respect to her discharge of official duties. Palin skirted this obligation by turning to private email accounts for government related dealings. In fact, the hacker in question helped flush out Palin’s violations. The hacker also helped establish a motive for the illegal conduct: Palin regularly involved her husband in official business, and it’s easy to understand why she did not want to leave behind evidence of her husband’s involvement.

So why the massive dedication of law enforcement resources to identify and prosecute a hacker whose acts embarrassed a public person by exposing her improper conduct, but reveal no intention to defraud, steal, or otherwise harm his victim? That’s a very good question. On the plus side, I am delighted to see, at long last, federal prosecutors taking action against a hacker. The prohibitions the law provides are important to millions of citizens who rely on the internet for some measure of privacy in their communications. The Palin case got significant media exposure. For the hundreds of thousands who followed it to learn that the culprit was apprehended and suffered consequences is a good thing (I’d sentence young Kernell to empty hospital bedpans for a couple of months; he’d learn something from it).

Then there are the troublesome questions. Why does it mean nothing to the feds when Joe Six-Pack is the victim of Internet identity theft, but the house falls in when a prankster wants to embarrass Sarah Palin? Do you think there might be just a bit of politics lurking behind the scenes? In this Justice Department? And then there is the still-more menacing question: we now know that Palin was systematically violating the Open Records Act trying to keep her official dealings in the dark. By bringing down the hammer on a person who helped expose her misconduct, are the prosecutors actually attempting to cloak the official misconduct of a public servant?

The prosecutors in this case owe us some explanations. And they should start by disclosing who at the Justice Department concluded that a bigger manhunt should be launched against a University of Tennessee computer hacker out to embarrass a Republican political candidate than the Bush Administration sent out after Osama bin Laden at Tora Bora. At a minimum we’re looking at some seriously twisted priorities.

Update from Alaska

While the Alaska legislature’s investigative conclusion today that Palin abused her power as governor in the “Troopergate” case has grabbed the headlines, there is another story out of Anchorage which relates to the equally byzantine Palin email saga. Palin’s use of private email accounts, like the one hacked, to skirt the requirements of Alaska law that her emails be maintained as public records, have been assailed in the courts.

Today, the Anchorage Daily News reports, (http://community.adn.com/adn/node/132548) the Superior Court in Anchorage issued an order requiring Palin to preserve her private email accounts pending a final judicial determination of the matter. The ruling is based on a conclusion that the challenge to Palin’s efforts to keep her emails secret was likely to prevail. In a subsequent report, the paper notes that Alaska government offices are now scrambling (http://www.adn.com/palin/story/552319.html) to compile copies of correspondence sent using Palin’s private email accounts on the grounds that these emails are public records.

All of this is very sharply at cross purposes with the Bush Justice Department’s heavy-handed prosecutorial theatrics in Tennessee targeting a young college student. The Bush prosecutors proceed on the assumption that Palin’s emails are private and not official records. That is now all but established as incorrect. This can only add to the impression that the Justice Department’s case has very little to do with law enforcement, and much to do with an effort to salvage a floundering GOP electoral campaign.
This is, in all fairness, a bit tricky. By not keeping all of her Governmental communications a matter of public record by using private emails, it is argued that this is a violation of the Open Records Act. With that said, the manner in which the evidence has been collected may result in the evidence being inadmisable in court, were it to go that far.

One thing though: that line of thought didn't work out so well when the 11th Cirucit Court of Appeals heard this case. (http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=178) In this case, hackers got access to child pornography, and the evidence of it, while obtained via a hack, was deemed admisable in court, and led to the convictions of child pronographers.

So the question here is whether or not this information obtained via a hack will also be considered admissable? If it were deemed admissable, this problem would haunt Sarah Palin all the way back to Alaska (assuming the McCain/Palin ticket loses in November). If it were deemed inadmissable, then I am curious as to what the rationale behind such a decision would be, considering the ruling made by the 11th Circuit Court?

In any event, this is another headache for Sarah Palin's Administration in Alaska, for the McCain/Palin ticket, and for the GOP in general. All because of a crime against Sarah Palin... go figure.

fuldstændigamok
10-11-2008, 08:37 PM
I kinda beginning to think that you dont love miss sarah much, amiright?

Mustard
10-11-2008, 08:43 PM
you are right fuld. good call!

mongo
10-11-2008, 08:44 PM
i like her. that 14 year old of hers is a hottie.

Kerjack
10-11-2008, 08:45 PM
Considering it was a private citizen that obtained the information illegally and not a government official it will be admissible.
Case closed.

Even more so if you break it down, that the government obtained the information perfectly legally, from the press.

Mustard
10-11-2008, 08:50 PM
i like her. that 14 year old of hers is a hottie.
Its thinking like this that makes baby Jesus cry... TEARS OF JOY!!!
Considering it was a private citizen that obtained the information illegally and not a government official it will be admissible.

Case closed.
Well, I guess we will have to wait and see.

Hanover Fist
10-11-2008, 08:50 PM
However, as long as there are records of it, then it isn't illegal as the judge stated, as he allowed her to keep on using her private accounts to discuss state business.

Kerjack
10-11-2008, 08:55 PM
Well, I guess we will have to wait and see.

It is the same story as the press. The press cannot hire or take part in gathering information in a illegal manner. But, if someone else gets the information through illegal means and it is considered news worthy they can still publish the information. Again, even if the press knows it was obtained illegally.

Mustard
10-11-2008, 09:03 PM
However, as long as there are records of it, then it isn't illegal as the judge stated, as he allowed her to keep on using her private accounts to discuss state business.
The problem here is motive, as far as I can tell. Re-read this if you will:

the hacker helped establish something important: Sarah Palin has been systematically violating the Open Records Act. As David Corn has noted at Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/10/10122_palins_email_cover-up_open_records_act.html), Palin relied heavily on private email accounts for improper purposes. As governor of Alaska, she was obligated to maintain as public records her communications with respect to her discharge of official duties. Palin skirted this obligation by turning to private email accounts for government related dealings. In fact, the hacker in question helped flush out Palin’s violations. The hacker also helped establish a motive for the illegal conduct: Palin regularly involved her husband in official business, and it’s easy to understand why she did not want to leave behind evidence of her husband’s involvement.


What I gather is not whether or not Sarah Palin can continue to use the private emial account for official government related business, its the usage of a private email account for official government related business to sidestep and skirt the Open Records Act in with the motive being, "Palin regularly involved her husband in official business, and it’s easy to understand why she did not want to leave behind evidence of her husband’s involvement".

I couldn't care less and have no problem at all if a judge rules that she can use her private email account for official business in the future, provided she keeps all of her records a matter of public record. It is the blatant attempt (and violation of) the Open Records Act that is at issue here, and whether or not she violated it by doing what she did.

Mustard
10-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Well, seeing how much traction this stoy is getting on GMF, I'll be wildly surprised to even make it on Countdown Monday.

heelsguy
10-12-2008, 08:24 PM
considering he is the son of a democratic state representative, they should just let it go considering he screen shots will likely be considered fruit from a posionous tree, (yeah I watch Law and Order)

Mustard
10-12-2008, 08:30 PM
I too love Law and Order, yet I never find the time to watch it anymore...

Fornicator
10-12-2008, 08:34 PM
I'm with The Sink on this one. Butt for a different reason.

What kind of dumb-fuck retard uses yahoo or hotmail or (insert name of pull your pants down and expose your cooter) email for official government business. You might was well publish state secrets on the f'in Web and e-mail (insert terrorist name here) with the link to it.

This is exactly the kind of fuck-up VP I want. Cheney makes Satan look like Santa Clause, butt he's smart enough to know how to hide a body. If low-grade crack wins the day and Palin becomes VP, I pray to (insert the all-knowing, omnipotent despot of your choice) that the FBI, CIA, NSA and every other intellegence agency in existsence, lines up to give her a techno-wedgie and cuts her off from the rest of us.

Yeah - blame some kid for hacking her e-mail when we should be questioning her judgement and ability to even enter the whitehouse.

dadaelus
10-12-2008, 08:48 PM
What plea did this guy enter? I would dearly love to see this go to trial.

Insomniac
10-12-2008, 09:29 PM
Speaking of child porn, I'd put my hypotenuse on Trig Palin's adjacent, if you know what I mean.

heelsguy
10-12-2008, 11:01 PM
I'm

Yeah - blame some kid for hacking her e-mail when we should be questioning her judgement and ability to even enter the whitehouse.

yeah, that's exactly what I am saying. the same fucks around here who complain about invasion of privacy by the government seem to have no problem with this dumfuck...does not matter what he found. he broke the law. if he hacked into yours you'd want to wear his balls as a necklace

freegood
10-12-2008, 11:34 PM
yeah, that's exactly what I am saying. the same fucks around here who complain about invasion of privacy by the government seem to have no problem with this dumfuck...does not matter what he found. he broke the law. if he hacked into yours you'd want to wear his balls as a necklace

Then again, if I was a public official, it would be a big no no for me to use Yahoo/Gmail in an official capacity.

As to what you said earlier, if some hacker were to expose me, I'd get away scott free even if those Gmail letters had proof that I embezzled millions of your hard earned money.

Hooray for Law and Order: STD!

Genius
10-12-2008, 11:49 PM
She's like the Willy Taveras of political scandals. Lot's of singles, no slugging percentage whatsoever.

And there's certainly a follow-up joke about stealing third base there, too.

dadaelus
10-13-2008, 12:07 AM
yeah, that's exactly what I am saying. the same fucks around here who complain about invasion of privacy by the government seem to have no problem with this dumfuck...does not matter what he found. he broke the law. if he hacked into yours you'd want to wear his balls as a necklace

You are right. I do not want the government hacking my mail without a proper warrant. If someone breaks in to my mail I want them jailed. I also have a problem that the only way I learned about this bypass of government email systems was through some kid hacking Yahoo's system.

I also want my elected officials to obey the law. I want them to use secure systems when communicating on official business and I want transparency and accountability that ensures that I can learn what my elected officials do, when they do it, how they do it and why they do it. I have the same problem here as I had when I learned that the White House email system was routinely circumvented by WH staff using the GOP mail servers.

I do have a problem with this kid and am glad that he got caught. I hope it raises awareness of the importance of email security AND the need to record and keep government communications.

Das Kahlua
10-13-2008, 12:25 AM
Considering it was a private citizen that obtained the information illegally and not a government official it will be admissible.
Case closed.

Even more so if you break it down, that the government obtained the information perfectly legally, from the press.

The problem with this is, that it could lead to the government, or agents of the government, using 'private citizens' to engage in illicit activity in order to ensure that the information gained will still remain admissible in a potential criminal action.

Talk about leaving the door open to massive abuse.

Mustard
10-13-2008, 12:40 AM
The problem with this is, that it could lead to the government, or agents of the government, using 'private citizens' to engage in illicit activity in order to ensure that the information gained will still remain admissible in a potential criminal action.

Talk about leaving the door open to massive abuse.
Great point!

As an aside, I just have to ask... Who's to say that didn't happen in this case?

Hmm?

Das Kahlua
10-13-2008, 12:52 AM
Great point!

As an aside, I just have to ask... Who's to say that didn't happen in this case?

Hmm?

No one, that's my point.

The biggest problem the government is going to face in the coming decade plus is that no one is going to trust them, no matter what they do. Forget Democrat or Republican, most people recognize that there are way too many dirt-bag politicians, both Democrat and Republican, and there's no real trust for either side.

This entire story is the perfect example of the BS that encircles Washington. That because of the fact that Palin chose to e-mail from Hotmail instead of her government account, even if she didn't try to hide anything or erase documents, she could be charged with a crime?

When way too many people are struggling to pay their basic bills and the government is wasting more money than they can even count, most people don't want another hundred million dollars wasted on petty bullshit like this.

Talk about the issues, things that actually are real and matter, or just STFU.

Kerjack
10-13-2008, 12:56 AM
The problem with this is, that it could lead to the government, or agents of the government, using 'private citizens' to engage in illicit activity in order to ensure that the information gained will still remain admissible in a potential criminal action.

Talk about leaving the door open to massive abuse.


I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying that is the way it is.

Das Kahlua
10-13-2008, 01:15 AM
I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying that is the way it is.

Maybe. I'm not taking a stance on this other than to talk about my perception of it, but the court will have the final say, and we all know that the various courts have come down with some crazy ass rulings in the past, so no one but said court knows what will happen in this case, if anything.

dadaelus
10-13-2008, 01:33 AM
The problem with this is, that it could lead to the government, or agents of the government, using 'private citizens' to engage in illicit activity in order to ensure that the information gained will still remain admissible in a potential criminal action.

Talk about leaving the door open to massive abuse.

There are a couple of attorneys around here that might know more but my understanding of it is that if a private citizen, acting under the direction of the government, breaks the law, that person is an agent of that government and the laws would apply. You cannot do by proxy what you are forbidden to do by law.

Kerjack
10-13-2008, 01:40 AM
There are a couple of attorneys around here that might know more but my understanding of it is that if a private citizen, acting under the direction of the government, breaks the law, that person is an agent of that government and the laws would apply. You cannot do by proxy what you are forbidden to do by law.


Agreed, but I think he was more insinuating that they would hire someone off the books in a manner of speaking. Although that is pretty difficult to pull off, plus you have to find an idiot to be the private citizen. Because even if all goes well you get to use the evidence but the citizen that did the dirty work still goes to jail.

dadaelus
10-13-2008, 02:02 AM
Agreed, but I think he was more insinuating that they would hire someone off the books in a manner of speaking. Although that is pretty difficult to pull off, plus you have to find an idiot to be the private citizen. Because even if all goes well you get to use the evidence but the citizen that did the dirty work still goes to jail.

you are right, it takes an idiot.

I think that there was a case in NY with a cop's use of a 'non certified' informant. Apparently, if you are a cop, when you get a snitch you have to register it with the department and there are some rules involved. This cop was keeping a few of these 'off the books' and an arrest that he made went all to hell at trial because they could not establish how the cop got the info to make the bust.

Das Kahlua
10-13-2008, 02:43 AM
There are a couple of attorneys around here that might know more but my understanding of it is that if a private citizen, acting under the direction of the government, breaks the law, that person is an agent of that government and the laws would apply. You cannot do by proxy what you are forbidden to do by law.

True. But that is only the case if those agents of the government are identified as such. Imagine if Watergate happened, but if Nixon, or any other aspect of the government, were never linked to it... it would just be random felons attacking the DNC headquarters. Just another random crime in DC's history...should whatever those burglars recovered through their illegal activity be used by the state as evidence against others?

This would be a great discussion for a law school class.

Axel
10-13-2008, 02:50 AM
I sincerely hope that this pit-bull with lipstick would never have a chance to handle nuke codes.

Das Kahlua
10-13-2008, 02:53 AM
Clearly those nukes would be better spent obliterating Pakistan...

Axel
10-13-2008, 03:08 AM
What, to nuke a long term American ally, are you crazy? What has changed out of sudden?

An intermediary role of Pakistan toward Islamic fundamentalist is renown for years

CIA worked in tandem with Pak to create Taliban (http://www.multiline.com.au/~johnm/taliban.htm)

Wednesday, 7 March 2001

LONDON: The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) worked in tandem with Pakistan to create the "monster" that is today Afghanistan's ruling Taliban, a leading US expert on South Asia said here.

"I warned them that we were creating a monster," Selig Harrison from the Woodrow Wilson International Centre for Scholars said at the conference here last week on "Terrorism and Regional Security: Managing the Challenges in Asia."

Harrison said: "The CIA made a historic mistake in encouraging Islamic groups from all over the world to come to Afghanistan." The US provided $3 billion for building up these Islamic groups, and it accepted Pakistan's demand that they should decide how this money should be spent, Harrison said
...

Das Kahlua
10-13-2008, 03:37 AM
Is this really a surprise? Pakistan shares a border with which country?? Afghanistan. What country did we fund the Taliban in to fight the Soviets? Afghanistan.

You don't need to be a math major to but that 2+2 together...

Axel
10-13-2008, 04:24 AM
Dude, either you're joking or you have problems with a comprehension: I claimed the above fact as renown, not as a surprise.

I have to ask you once again: what has changed out of sudden? Why should Pakistan be nuked now? The fact that Pakistan was harboring Al-Qaeda boot camps (established by CIA) - as much as that Saudis were funding them (beside CIA) - was renown before the second Gulf war.

What changed since than?

Why Iraq and not Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?

kid_vidrio
10-13-2008, 07:43 AM
Dude, either you're joking or you have problems with a comprehension: I claimed the above fact as renown, not as a surprise.

I have to ask you once again: what has changed out of sudden? Why should Pakistan be nuked now? The fact that Pakistan was harboring Al-Qaeda boot camps (established by CIA) - as much as that Saudis were funding them (beside CIA) - was renown before the second Gulf war.

What changed since than?

Why Iraq and not Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?

It's just tough talk.
Regardless, our relationship with Pakistan ebbs and flows with our relationship with India and India's relationship with Russia. When the Queen beat a retreat from the Gandhi and the Raj, the financial void was filled by Stalin. To keep a footprint, we (the US) started a long dance with Pakistan. Their personality and style and the way they had been subjugated by the British for 200+ years has allowed us to literally treat them like dogs, throwing scraps their way when it behooved us. But Saudi money started coming in and since '90, our grip has become more tenuous.

Oh, and the hacker exposed a big league simpleton who would create a free web-based account with that name and use it for anything professionally related. Anything at all. (just to stay on topic.)

Axel
10-13-2008, 09:02 AM
Oh, and the hacker exposed a big league simpleton who would create a free web-based account with that name and use it for anything professionally related. Anything at all. (just to stay on topic.)Yeah that's why:

I sincerely hope that this pit-bull with lipstick would never have a chance to handle nuke codes.

Morfin
10-13-2008, 11:11 AM
I sincerely hope that this pit-bull with lipstick would never have a chance to handle nuke codes.

Why? What's the problem? She could just hide them in a secret, private, e-mail account where only she knows the password. It'd be safe.

Le Goat
10-13-2008, 12:02 PM
EBAUMS did it!

Le Goat
10-13-2008, 12:04 PM
I've actually used this 'hack' (more like retardedly easy security flaw) to get into a couple of ex's email. It's quite effective.